What's the main reason GNR isn't as popluar as it was 20yrs ago?

[trqster]

Almost no good bands and music are relevant today, why should a shadow of a former great band like Gn'R be any different?

If real Gn'R still existed though I still believe it could have stayed relevant pretty much to this day, like Bon Jovi, Metallica, AC/DC and a few other bands...

[Broskirose]

You know....considering what kind of music is considered "relevant" today - Justin Bieber, Kanye West, Ke$ha, and other folks that are complete douche canoes- I'm ok with my favorite band not being considered "relevant".

I agree. But you're forgetting the fact that I said "The reality for most intelligent music fans who are able to look at this band objectively, is that they're, well...kind of lame."

So I'm not talking about the kind of people who just listen to whatever mainstream pop tune is hot at the moment. And I wouldn't call those kinds of people a "music fan" in the first place. I'm talking about people who listen to quality music from different genres and backgrounds, not just 80s guitar rock.

If we're talking rock bands, stuff like Queens Of The Stone Age, Muse, Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails, Jack White etc. Bands that are able to do stuff like release acclaimed albums and push the boundaries of live performances all in this decade. With Guns N' Roses, I think we all agree that they are unable to do anything remotely close.

And as far as the classic aspect is concerned - if you really think that GNR are held in the same respect as bands like Pink Floyd and The Beatles, you're tripping. They simply aren't.

This isn't my personal opinion. It's just reality. I personally think that GNR have produced some great songs, and had some incredible musicians in their lineups throughout the years. Axl is an iconic frontman, and I think many aspects of the band are underrated.

But the band that's remembered for "Paradise City" and "Welcome To The Jungle" aren't as prestigious a group, outside of children and middle aged parents, as some would like to think. And the band that's remembered for "If The World" and "Scraped"...oh wait, nevermind.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Broskirose

[DR DOOM]

I'm a fan (honest) but I have to be objective and agree GNR is not "high art"...it's at times juvenile hard rock (not that there's anything wrong with that) but just because there is a twinkling piano in some songs does not make it Leonard Cohen or something.

[Damn_Smooth]

I don't care what you did for guitar picks, your words here speak loud and clear.

Would those be the words about seeing the band live 6 times (3 of which were front row on the rail)? Or the words about an album by the band being my all time favorite? Or the band itself being my all time favorite? You're absolutely right. They speak loud and clear. Not my fault that you can't read, and throw a temper tantrum when someone posts something you disagree with.

What do you want to debate without insults (not that you're worthy)? The fact that you think you're too cool for this band? The fact that I make you whine for the sheer joy of it? What? I'm willing to debate anything with you so far as you can pick a topic. Yeah junior, Guns was bigger than you'll ever be able to understand. Anything else?

The topic at hand? Again some basic reading skills may come in handy. Learn how to be civil and stop shitting up threads with your insults and off topic bickering. Yes, I know you're upset/jealous/whatever that I was made a news reporter. Get over it. It's been a few months now. Really not a big deal in the grand scheme of life, is it? Deal with it and move on. You're the only one whining. Learn to be civil now. You can do it. Just apply yourself.

You're ignorant (again, not an insult) to say that the biggest band in the world was just a gimmick. How do you explain the enormous amount of radio play that they get in this day and age? Surely you don't need me to point out that they have at the very least 8 (at the absolute very least) songs that are played way more often than any song by your real favorite band, or do you? How does someone such as yourself rationalize that?

I never said "ignorant" is an insult. Various other things you've said in this thread are. In any case, you're unnecessarily confrontational.

I didn't claim that they get no radio airplay. I said that they are irrelevant to most music fans that aren't children or middle aged. That's just a reality. Go on a forum for any other band and try to talk about Guns N' Roses. People will laugh in your face (and no, I'm not basing my argument on what is said on forums - just an example). I'm not sure what you mean by "real favorite band". I don't see how you'd have more knowledge on the subject than me.

You aren't basing it on the one piece of tangible evidence we have to determine that though. Look at the audience at the shows. It seems quite diverse to me, without a real age demographic to be easily identifiable.

[MB.]

We have these rather popular lists around new years, where people can chose their alltime favorite songs.

November Rain has been for years the nr.1 on one list (so above bohemian Rhapsody), this list is mostly chosen by middle age people. And on another, more chosen by all ages, it's nr. 13.

I think, that makes them pretty relevant in my country.

Something else, in the days they were most famous, they were considered rather tacky and lame already. Liking that band, was something I didn't say out loud, cause it was so not cool. Still they were on top of every chart. So more people were secret fans. Now it's way more ok to like them, people actually don't laugh anymore. Everybody seems to love NR and SCOM. At the concert I was suprised how many young adults were there.

But overall I do think most fans are middle aged, but you know that group is a pretty relevant group in society.

Edited January 19, 2014 by MB.

[Bobbo]

Had they stayed/gotten their internal shit together, and managed to keep Izzy to, at least, write and record with them when he returned to help in '95 (?), I think they had a good 2 solid albums left in them. God willing, three. The iron was still hot when they got done touring in '93, and the public was still fascinated with them. After a couple albums, you're right, they would've faded into the nostalgia zone Axl's stuck in today. But at least it would've been with the people who made the nostalgia. And if Axl can still attract an audience with the likes of DJ Ashba, the pedo-looking synth douche, and a bunch of other no names in the fold; I'm willing to bet they could had pulled Metallica, or even U2 touring numbers with the bulk of the real band.

They're certainly not in the same league as The Beatles and such, but they still are highly regarded and respected within the industry for what they did in the '87-'93 heyday. All within (barely) 4 albums. THAT'S established fact.

As Smooth said, there's a vast variety of attendees feeding off the nostalgia today. The music was even embraced at Governor's Ball for Christ sake. A festival mind you, EVERYBODY here thought Axl was gonna get crucified at. On top of that, there was a vast variety of attendees going to see the band back in their prime as well. At least according to the people who were actually around to experience the band then.

Sure, they weren't exactly revolutionary in what they did, nor did they reinvent the wheel or anything like that, but they sure blended in well with the concept of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". They were great with stirring the pot with an original recipe formula. There's a reason the industry is still willing to pay multi, multi millions of dollars to get the real band back together. Because a big portion of objective fans are willing to pay a pretty penny to see them. They see there's depth to this band. They're fun and catchy (Jungle, PC), and grandiose and complex (November Rain/Estranged, Coma/Locomotive). And well beyond being one trick ponies like their '80s peers you're (mistakenly) lumping them in with.

What a few yogurt eating vegan hispters, who didn't even bother listening to GNR past the "Appetite three", have to say about GNR in retrospect doesn't change that.

[Guest NGOG]

There is something about the duo of Axl and Slash that drives people crazy. Axl will never recreate that with any other guitarist (because the public are fixated on a certain image and they will never let go of it).

Steven Tyler would be scrutinized without Joe Perry. There is nothing Robert Plant can do musicially that will kill the desire for seeing him with Jimmy Page. As I said, the public are only comfortable in a certain image.

[magisme]

There is something about the duo of Axl and Slash that drives people crazy. Axl will never recreate that with any other guitarist (because the public are fixated on a certain image and they will never let go of it).

You know you're my boy, but this is just wrong. Sure, people will always love Axl and Slash together. But if Axl had made music that connected with a great number of people, his GNR vision would have been much more accepted. This blame the fans bullshit for Nu's reception is just that, bullshit. The music wasn't there as far as most people were concerned. You can like CD all you want - and that's great - but your taste doesn't change reality.

[Smoking Baby]

There is something about the duo of Axl and Slash that drives people crazy. Axl will never recreate that with any other guitarist (because the public are fixated on a certain image and they will never let go of it).

You know you're my boy, but this is just wrong. Sure, people will always love Axl and Slash together. But if Axl had made music that connected with a great number of people, his GNR vision would have been much more accepted. This blame the fans bullshit for Nu's reception is just that, bullshit. The music wasn't there as far as most people were concerned. You can like CD all you want - and that's great - but your taste doesn't change reality.

I agree. If Axl had allowed this band to shine, they had a chance at being recognized as a great band. Had Axl done interviews with a member of the band like he did with Eddie Trunk (Ashba), maybe people would know who Robin Finck or Dizzy Reed were. It took them like 20 years to finally post an official picture of the new (new) band... People are lazy and won't make a research to know what happened to the band, they will find out by looking at a magazine cover or watching an interview on a talk show.

Many people won' agree wih me. But Axl should've worked harder if he really wanted to erase Slash from GNR's history.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Smoking Baby

[Guest NGOG]

There is something about the duo of Axl and Slash that drives people crazy. Axl will never recreate that with any other guitarist (because the public are fixated on a certain image and they will never let go of it).

You know you're my boy, but this is just wrong. Sure, people will always love Axl and Slash together. But if Axl had made music that connected with a great number of people, his GNR vision would have been much more accepted. This blame the fans bullshit for Nu's reception is just that, bullshit. The music wasn't there as far as most people were concerned. You can like CD all you want - and that's great - but your taste doesn't change reality.

But the image is more than just seeing Axl and Slash together. GNR have been unable to shed the archetype created by Appetite. That archetype being a need to release "cool rock n' roll".

Mags, I appreciate that you actually listened to Chinese and disliked what you heard. But you have to admit, the objective critics are in the minority. Many people were just offended by the notion that GNR would write such typically un-Appetite songs (and turned their copy off the moment a bunch of Chinese dudes started talking).

[DangerousCurves]

You knrnsidering what kind of music is considered "relevant" today - Justin Bieber, Kanye West, Ke$ha, and other folks that are complete douche canoes- I'm ok with my favorite band not being considered "relevant".

I agree. But you're forgetting the fact that I said "The reality for most intelligent music fans who are able to look at this band objectively, is that they're, well...kind of lame."

So I'm not talking about the kind of people who just listen to whatever mainstream pop tune is hot at the moment. And I wouldn't call those kinds of people a "music fan" in the first place. I'm talking about people who listen to quality music from different genres and backgrounds, not just 80s guitar rock.

If we're talking rock bands, stuff like Queens Of The Stone Age, Muse, Radiohead, Nine Inch Nails, Jack White etc. Bands that are able to do stuff like release acclaimed albums and push the boundaries of live performances all in this decade. With Guns N' Roses, I think we all agree that they are unable to do anything remotely close.

And as far as the classic aspect is concerned - if you really think that GNR are held in the same respect as bands like Pink Floyd and The Beatles, you're tripping. They simply aren't.

This isn't my personal opinion. It's just reality. I personally think that GNR have produced some great songs, and had some incredible musicians in their lineups throughout the years. Axl is an iconic frontman, and I think many aspects of the band are underrated.

But the band that's remembered for "Paradise City" and "Welcome To The Jungle" aren't as prestigious a group, outside of children and middle aged parents, as some would like to think. And the band that's remembered for "If The World" and "Scraped"...oh wait, nevermind.

Actually, I think if you go out and poll 20 random but legit music fans, few will know QotSA, about 90% will be able to quote a NIN song but 75% of them will be saying the only line everyone knows "I wanna fuck you like an animal". Radiohead, again, 90% will know them enough to quote a somg but that song is likely going to be Creep. Also, Muse. You know what most people know about Muse? They were on the soundtrack for Twilight. But I guarantee that if you poll the same people, they will likely be able to sing parts of Paradise City, SCoM, WTTJ, and November Rain at the very least.

[Guest NGOG]

If Axl had allowed this band to shine, they had a chance at being recognized as a great band.

That's just not true. It's historical revisionism. When the Chinese line-up were kicking, they were labelled a "freakshow".

It's only through hindsight that people have realized 'Hey, that was actually a really interesting band Axl put together'.

[Smoking Baby]

If Axl had allowed this band to shine, they had a chance at being recognized as a great band.

That's just not true. It's historical revisionism. When the Chinese line-up were kicking, they were labelled a "freakshow".

It's only through hindsight that people have realized 'Hey, that was actually a really interesting band Axl put together'.

I disagree. They had people like Brain and BH who were already very respected on their own. They just didn't have a chance to shine as GNR members. If they had released a industrial/alternative record by 2001/02 they had a a chance to sell a quite good amount. MTV was still present, an interview, a guitar magazine cover, promotions via internet... they had a shot. Things were different.

[Guest NGOG]

They had people like Brain and BH who were already very respected on their own.

Amongst the general population - i.e. those that aren't jerking off over guitars - they really weren't. It's only after they left GNR that either musician gained any serious notoriety.

[Damn_Smooth]

Axl and Slash had a chemistry that is impossible to reproduce. The way that Slash played guitar was meant solely for the way that Axl sings. CD is by far my favorite album of the 00's, but no song on there had a perfect mixture of guitars and vocals playing off of each other like the albums Axl and Slash did together. Hell, that mix up of ITW and whatever lame-ass VR song it was was way greater than the sum of it's parts. Though image had something to do with it, it was a perfect mixture of talents playing off of each other that lit the whole world's ass on fire. Expecting that to be recreated by a 50+ year old man and his talented yet still hired friends is asinine even from Axl himself.

[magisme]

There is something about the duo of Axl and Slash that drives people crazy. Axl will never recreate that with any other guitarist (because the public are fixated on a certain image and they will never let go of it).

You know you're my boy, but this is just wrong. Sure, people will always love Axl and Slash together. But if Axl had made music that connected with a great number of people, his GNR vision would have been much more accepted. This blame the fans bullshit for Nu's reception is just that, bullshit. The music wasn't there as far as most people were concerned. You can like CD all you want - and that's great - but your taste doesn't change reality.

But the image is more than just seeing Axl and Slash together. GNR have been unable to shed the archetype created by Appetite. That archetype being a need to release "cool rock n' roll".

Mags, I appreciate that you actually listened to Chinese and disliked what you heard. But you have to admit, the objective critics are in the minority. Many people were just offended by the notion that GNR would write such typically un-Appetite songs (and turned their copy off the moment a bunch of Chinese dudes started talking).

See, I disagree with that last part, but, ultimately, we'll reach no conclusion because both our opinions will be based on anecdotal evidence. Nevertheless, I really don't think that there's this mass of people who were offended at CD's un-Appetite-ness. I really think that, for most people who listened to the album, most songs were a big , and the album was easily forgotten. I could be wrong. I just think this rabid, "Axl + Slash or death!!!" crowd is exaggerated.

[Fin]

The 14 song playlist shoud've been aranged differently. The album is a bit mediocre as it is now, but with a differently arranged playlist it would have been a masterpiece.

A re-release or something could possibly solve the issue.

[Guest NGOG]

Nevertheless, I really don't think that there's this mass of people who were offended at CD's un-Appetite-ness. I really think that, for most people who listened to the album, most songs were a big , and the album was easily forgotten. I could be wrong. I just think this rabid, "Axl + Slash or death!!!" crowd is exaggerated.

It's all speculation at the end of the day. I just think that when most people spin a GNR record, they're not looking for something as complicated as Chinese. I say a lot of this because I was briefly one those of people. I got into GNR through the anthems. Then I read up on the history of the new band was very intrigued by the motivations behind Chinese. I bought the record and my immediate reaction was "What the utter fuck". I remember going into school the next day, after only listening to maybe two entire tracks, and saying "Don't buy this shit, it's just not GNR".

A few weeks later I started thinking about the different noises I'd heard. I started replaying parts of the record I enjoyed as well as reading certain things Axl had said about each song. I don't know why, but I quickly fell in love with the album. It just opened my eyes up to an entirely new type of music. Chinese gave me a musical maturity. Before I was listening to really basic songs by bands like AC/DC, now I was visiting really complicated places courtesy of bands like NIN.

Edited January 19, 2014 by NGOG

[Smoking Baby]

The 14 song playlist shoud've been aranged differently. The album is a bit mediocre as it is now, but with a differently arranged playlist it would have been a masterpiece.

A re-release or something could possibly solve the issue.

I will never understand how a different order of the songs would suddenly make them sound better. CD needed different songs to be good, it needed the big guns Axl talked about, not songs like Scraped, CD, ITW and the "doom metal" Sorry.

[Fin]

The 14 song playlist shoud've been aranged differently. The album is a bit mediocre as it is now, but with a differently arranged playlist it would have been a masterpiece.

A re-release or something could possibly solve the issue.

I will never understand how a different order of the songs would suddenly make them sound better. CD needed different songs to be good, it needed the big guns Axl talked about, not songs like Scraped, CD, ITW and the "doom metal" Sorry.

CD is a good starter. It's not WTTJ or Civil War, but it opens the the album well.

Sorry is an amazing track. Even if disregarding the great lyrics it's still very good.

I admit Scraped and ITW are nothing special, though they could work kinda like functional fillers on the second half of the album.

[classicrawker]

The 14 song playlist shoud've been aranged differently. The album is a bit mediocre as it is now, but with a differently arranged playlist it would have been a masterpiece.

A re-release or something could possibly solve the issue.

Sorry mate but you can polish a turd and it is still a turd............no rearranging of songs on ChiDem is going to make it popular...........There is no SCOM on that record and that ship sailed long ago..........and I don't hate ChiDem I just think it is mediocre at best..................

Edited January 19, 2014 by classicrawker

[Guest NGOG]

There is no SCOM on that record and that ship sailed long ago...

How do you go about creating another Sweet Child? It's virtually impossible to pull that off.

I think Axl just wanted to create a record that could be considered collectively. As opposed to a few marquee anthems.

Edited January 19, 2014 by NGOG

[classicrawker]

There is no SCOM on that record and that ship sailed long ago...

How do you go about creating another Sweet Child? It's virtually impossible to pull that off.

I think Axl just wanted to create a record that could be considered collectively. As opposed to a few marquee anthems.

The point is ChiDem did not have any radio friendly songs people could crank while driving down the highway in their cars or sing to while partying............and which is why no amount of reshuffling of songs is going to bring that album back to life and why it had it's day in the sun when released and then disapppeared into oblivion except on the fan forums like this one..............

Edited January 19, 2014 by classicrawker

[Guest NGOG]

crank while driving down the highway in their cars or sing to while partying...

So, instead of attempting to make an artistic statement, Axl should just write feel-good songs?

[classicrawker]

crank while driving down the highway in their cars or sing to while partying...

So, instead of attempting to make an artistic statement, Axl should just write feel-good songs?

I didn't say that did I? I was simply responding to FIN who seems to think rearranging songs on ChiDem and rereleasing it will bring it back from the dead and my only point is the album does not have the type of material that will get radio play and that people want to hear for that to be succesful.........I made no statement claiming Axl should release an album of AFD type anthems.....................

Listen I am a huge King Crimson fan but I am under no delusion that rearranging songs on my favorite KC albums will make them more popular as that type of music will never get radio play.............