Who is more influential? Tommy Stinson or Pino Palladino?

[Damn_Smooth]

I don't care about what bores you. I thought this thread was supposed to stop your little fight with Broski so you can calm down a bit, lady.

You're very ignorant regarding music, that bores me and 99% of this forum.

Is Maynard mad? You're going to bore me no matter what you do, so it doesn't matter if you care or not. Being ignorant about music has never stopped me from being right each and every time I've discussed it with you, so what does that matter?

Stop that, DS doesn't like cheerleaders.

False. I don't like people that have nothing to offer but cheerleading. Such as yourself.

Yawn.

@Broski: Great post.

Point proven.

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think you're really ignorant as to who Pino is. He did not just play in NIN. Infact he was only in the band for about 2 or 3 months and it's irrelevant to his overall work.

As i say, i know him primarily from The Who and yes i am ignorant to who he is, as evidenced by my comment that the only place I'd heard of him was from The Who and the fact that he's a session musician.

His playing defined how the bass is used as an instrument.

Pino changed an instrument.

How so? I'd be really interested to know this.

Edited February 28, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Broskirose]

I think you're really ignorant as to who Pino is. He did not just play in NIN. Infact he was only in the band for about 2 or 3 months and it's irrelevant to his overall work.

As i say, i know him primarily from The Who and yes i am ignorant to who he is, as evidenced by my comment that the only place I'd heard of him was from The Who and the fact that he's a session musician.

His playing defined how the bass is used as an instrument.

Pino changed an instrument.

How so? I'd be really interested to know this.

Pino popularized "high" note bass lines. Whereas before bass lines where primarily in the background and didn't really stand out, Pino's bass was often at the forefront. He also helped to popularize fretless bass, and many of his techniques and styles came to be utilized by other bassists. His playing/imitations of his playing are all over 80s music.

Such a humble guy too.

As for NIN, again it's not really that relevant to his overall work and certainly not his influence. Damn Smooth just heard that he was in NIN and claimed he sucked, then claimed that Tommy Stinson was more influential than Pino Palladino only to admit later he has no idea who Pino Palladino is. Thus this thread was born.

He was only in the band for their Tension tour in the fall. His role was mainly to showcase the groove of their latest record (which he played on), and bring out the groove in their older material.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Broskirose

[Damn_Smooth]

Pino popularized "high" note bass lines. Whereas before bass lines where primarily in the background and didn't really stand out, Pino's bass was often at the forefront. He also helped to popularize fretless bass, and many of his techniques and styles came to be utilized by other bassists. His playing/imitations of his playing are all over 80s music.

Such a humble guy too.

As for NIN, again it's not really that relevant to his overall work and certainly not his influence. Damn Smooth just heard that he was in NIN and claimed he sucked, then claimed he was more influential than Tommy Stinson only to admit later he has no idea who Pino Palladino is. Thus this thread was born.

He was only in the band for their Tension tour in the fall. His role was mainly to showcase the groove of their latest record (which he played on), and bring out the groove in their older material.

I never once claimed that he was more influential than Stinson. If people don't know that I don't know who this guy is simply by reading the OP alone, there is no help for them.

[Broskirose]

Obviously meant the other way around.

If you don't know who he is then why are you arguing about it for days, derailing threads with it, starting new threads about it and throwing hissy fits over it?

It would be like me arguing about Selena Gomez for a week when I literally don't know the first thing about her other than I'd hit it, and you can't even say that much about Pino (?). You're just trolling and being annoying for no reason. If you want to have discussions on a music forum, then discuss. If you're just going to act like a fool and throw around insults like a baby while wasting everyone's time, then maybe you need to take a break and go outside.

[bacardimayne]

Tommy Stinson is awful. Self-entitled drunk who played generic basslines on a few albums 40 years ago. Pino is the superior musician.

[Damn_Smooth]

Obviously meant the other way around.

If you don't know who he is then why. You arguing about it for days, derailing threads with it, starting new threads about it and throwing hissy fits over it?

It would be like me arguing about Selena Gomez for a week when I literally don't know the first thing about her other than I'd hit it, and you can't even say that much about Pino (?). You're just trolling and being annoying for no reason. If you want to have discussions on a music forum, then discuss. If you're just going to act like a fool and throw around insults like a baby while wasting everyone's time, then maybe you need to take a break and go outside.

It's rather apparent that much like most of the English language, you're not smart enough to understand the meaning of "hissy fit" . Check much of your posting history and your little temper tantrum that led to you leaving the forum for correct usage of the term.

If you're too dense to understand why, there is no helping you. Not that there ever was, but I'm an optimist. Thank you for crushing my dreams of a brighter Broski.

If you're also dense enough to waste your time on what I'm doing, don't cry to me about it. It's your own fault.

Now go back to crying in the corner and put me on ignore since your anus is obviously much too sore to be able handle talking to me.

Love, DS

[Broskirose]

This guy is in his 30s everyone.

[Guest Len B'stard]

With all due respect Broski much of what you're saying is just plain false.

Whereas before bass lines where primarily in the background and didn't really stand out, Pino's bass was often at the forefront.

This is just plain untrue, when Pino was about 8 years old there was a gentleman named John Entwhistle doing just that...and in the context of actual popular music too, like top of the charts stuff. And this is mid 60s i'm talking about, by the time Pino was up and running there was entire genres where bass was at the forefront, genres of international repute, like reggae and it's various offshoots, according to his bio Pino came up playing a little reggae so how on earth you're citing him as bringing bass to the forefront i have absolutely no idea.

I remember some stuff in your post about him getting a signature bass etc but, uh, again, with all due respect, you don't have to be hot shit at an instrument to get a signature one, Joe Strummer got one and, i love Joe to bits but there's a reason they called him Strummer

By saying what you are saying you are effectively discrediting an entire genre that did all that good work. By the time Pino was up and running there was a million and one people, through the aforementioned reggae, then dance music, it's a ridiculous assertion. You had me wondering for a while there when you made a point of it, i was thinkin' to myself wow, why haven't I heard of this guy? I know now, cuz what you're saying ain't true

By the time Pino was coming up, even alternative/art/experimental etc etc whatever you wanna call that shit was getting in on the act, as evidenced above. Public Image Limited were making bass led, bass driven music as early as 1979. And this is just me scratching the surface with my limited knowledge here.

Edited March 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Broskirose]

I think you're nitpicking. I never claimed he was the soul influence behind the instrument. And I'm not talking about the 60s. I'm talking about the 80s. My point being that his playing defined that decade. His style and techniques are used by many, and his ability is impeccable. He can play any genre of music, and he was largely responsible for the popularization of the fretless bass.

My knowledge is quite limited as well. I'm merely a casual fan of his. And I don't play bass. However, it's quite easy to see that his influence goes far beyond that of Tommy Stinson. We're comparing one man who had a large impact on an instrument and a decade, to one man who made up a fraction of one band which made up a fraction of the overall influence which went on to culminate in the creation of one subgenre of music.

I don't see how it's even debatable. And I like Tommy. But come on....

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think you're nitpicking. I never claimed he was the soul influence behind the instrument. And I'm not talking about the 60s. I'm talking about the 80s. My point being that his playing defined that decade.

With respect, thats not what you were saying before at all and the impact of your point is significantly lessened because of it. After that what you have left is basically a pretty talented session musician that 'helped' popularise fretless bass, you appeared to be making him out to be a lot more of a trailblazer before. With what I know now, quite honestly, I wouldn't put him much higher than Tommy in terms of influence at all. And thats not nitpicking, you're saying he changed the instrument...how? You were saying:

Whereas before bass lines where primarily in the background and didn't really stand out, Pino's bass was often at the forefront.

which is simply not true. And you switch it around to say you were talking specifically about the 80s...but thats not what you said before and it was what you said before that kinda pricked up my interest on the matter. Surely when you're saying 'before' at the beginning of that sentence it's to denote before Pino, right? Well thats not true, is that me nitpicking or you expressly and categorically making a false claim? Nitpicking would be fussing over a detail when there's a broader strain of accuracy to your overall point, which there isn't, it's your overall and fundamental point that I am discrediting, thats not nitpicking at all.

Edited March 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Damn_Smooth]

This guy is in his 30s everyone.

So?

[Broskirose]

I think you're nitpicking. I never claimed he was the soul influence behind the instrument. And I'm not talking about the 60s. I'm talking about the 80s. My point being that his playing defined that decade.

With respect, thats not what you were saying before at all and the impact of your point is significantly lessened because of it. After that what you have left is basically a pretty talented session musician that 'helped' popularise fretless bass, you appeared to be making him out to be a lot more of a trailblazer before. With what I know now, quite honestly, I wouldn't put him much higher than Tommy in terms of influence at all. And thats not nitpicking, you're saying he changed the instrument...how? You were saying:

Whereas before bass lines where primarily in the background and didn't really stand out, Pino's bass was often at the forefront.

which is simply not true. And you switch it around to say you were talking specifically about the 80s...but thats not what you said before and it was what you said before that kinda pricked up my interest on the matter. Surely when you're saying 'before' at the beginning of that sentence it's to denote before Pino, right? Well thats not true, is that me nitpicking or you expressly and categorically making a false claim? Nitpicking would be fussing over a detail when there's a broader strain of accuracy to your overall point, which there isn't, it's your overall and fundamental point that I am discrediting, thats not nitpicking at all.

You sure are good at saying almost nothing with a fuckton of words.

As I've already stated in my previous posts, this thread is the offshoot of a debate (if you can even call it that) which began in another thread (which is now locked). I've already covered a lot of these points and don't want to repeat myself. Read that thread. If it wasn't clear that I was talking specifically about the 80s already, it will be then.

This really isn't debatable. Pino is more influential hands down. No contest. I say this as someone with a basic knowledge of both. You, by your own admission know nothing about Pino besides the fact that he was in The Who. The man at the forefront of the Tommy Stinson argument admits he has absolutely no idea who Pino Palladino is. I've yet to see anyone make a somewhat good case for Tommy.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Broskirose

[Damn_Smooth]

Did he start EDM? I gave him credit for that.

[Broskirose]

No.

[Damn_Smooth]

Oh well, I tried.

[Broskirose]

And failed as usual.

[Damn_Smooth]

And failed as usual.

I've succeeded in making you cry like a 5 year old every single time I've attempted, so I haven't failed everything. I suppose though, since I'm in my 30's and can take 10 years off, you can take 10 years off too.

[Broskirose]

You've succeeded in making childish insults and coming off as completely ignorant about music. Nothing more. But please don't get this topic locked with your insults again. Wouldn't want to take this debate to a third thread, now would we?

[Damn_Smooth]

You've succeeded in making childish insults and coming off as completely ignorant about music. Nothing more. But please don't get this topic locked with your insults again. Wouldn't want to take this debate to a third thread, now would we?

Why are you crying about insults again when you're the first to throw them? Seriously, I excused you for acting like a 5 year old since you're only 10 years removed, but in no reality am I going to excuse you for acting like a 5 year old girl.

[Guest Len B'stard]

You sure are good at saying almost nothing with a fuckton of words.

I'm not sure how more simply you need it put, you said he bought bass to the forefront, no he didn't. I'm not sure how clearer and how much more specific a rejection of your prior point you require.

If it wasn't clear that I was talking specifically about the 80s already, it will be then.

Well even in that context you are wrong, reggae was booming in the 80s and it was bass driven, as was dance music, this is leading on from the early 70s onwards and spreading and flourishing throughout the 80s. Furthermore, a large chunk of post punk groups, having been inspired by reggae took on this mantle of bass heavy music, through the late 70s right the way through to the mid 80s, what you are/were saying, even in the context of the 80s, is false.

This really isn't debatable. Pino is more influential hands down. No contest. I say this as someone with a basic knowledge of both

Perhaps the basic-ness is a hinderance sir.

ou, by your own admission know nothing about Pino besides the fact that he was in The Who.

Right, i knew nothing of Pino Palladino, the man that bought bass to the forefront and revolutionised the instrument i knew nothing about...and it comes to pass that the reason for that is that he doesn't exist. What does is exist is a very talented session musician that played with The Who, him I knew about. But no, you're right, I'll grant you that, I didn't and still don't know an awful lot about him...but it appears that you don't either. I see that he did some early work with Jools Holland though so i've probably seen him on TV a fair bit throughout my youth if he was on the show (Jools Holland does a TV show over here where they showcase musicians, young and old, Jools himself is kinda like a professional lounge musician/TV presenter). Anyway, besides the point.

I've yet to see anyone make a somewhat good case for Tommy.

OK, well how about Tommy was doing with The Replacements 10 years ahead of time (i.e. melding a sloppy classic rock style with punk) what was at the forefront of a musical revolution a decade later with the Seattle scene, a musical revolution that altered rock n roll (for better or worse) irreparably.

Also, Jaco Pastorius might have a thing or two to say about some of your claims regarding the fretless bass, although in your defence you did say he 'popularised' as opposed to pioneered...even the popularised bit'd be worth question in view of the existence of Jaco...and others.

[Broskirose]

You've succeeded in making childish insults and coming off as completely ignorant about music. Nothing more. But please don't get this topic locked with your insults again. Wouldn't want to take this debate to a third thread, now would we?

Why are you crying about insults again when you're the first to throw them? Seriously, I excused you for acting like a 5 year old since you're only 10 years removed, but in no reality am I going to excuse you for acting like a 5 year old girl.

First to throw them? You've gone about how I'm a retarded moron for days now over a musician you admit to having zero knowledge on.

Calling you ignorant about music is not an insult. Whine somewhere else. You're derailing your own thread.

post

Again, I take it you still have yet to read the thread in which this discussion originated. This was covered. You can go on about reggae music all you want. I'm specifically talking about the hits of the decade. Rock and pop. Not reggae.

I'm not going to continue to discuss something when I've already covered most of the points you're repetitively bringing up. The other thread is in the Side Projects section. Check it out.

And please refrain from bringing this "debate" (if you can even call it that) to other threads. I think 2 is enough. You've now made it 3. 3 threads for the most obvious nondebate of all time. Then again, expecting anything less on a Guns N' Roses forum (Tommy Stinson is a member of Guns N' Roses, isn't he?) where the OP is intentionally misleading, and those such as yourself rally around a man who proudly admits a complete lack of knowledge on the subject would be a bit much to ask.

Read the former discussion and I'll gladly debate you on the subject. But since you admit to only know of Pino's work as a touring musician in The Who, I'm not sure how you're going to be able to adequately make an argument against him.

I'm noticing a pattern of ignorance in those who pick Stinson as more influential... Just an observation.

Edit: Your quotes in this post are fucking up for me when I try to reply to them.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Broskirose

[Guest Len B'stard]

Again, I take it you still have yet to read the thread in which this discussion originated. This was covered. You can go on about reggae music all you want. I'm specifically talking about the hits of the decade. Rock and pop. Not reggae.

Does reggae not count as pop music, especially considering the times we're talking about?

I'm not going to continue to discuss something when I've already covered most of the points you're repetitively bringing up.

No but I'm sure you'll continue to change the parameters. Before it was bought instrument to the forefront, which was wrong, then it was bought instrument to the forefront in the 80s, which was wrong again...and now apparently the terms of engagement have changed again and we're only talking about rock and pop, despite the fact that reggae and the post punk that i speak of was pop music, it was in the charts, I'd say thats pop.

And please refrain from bringing this "debate" (if you can even call it that) to other threads. I think 2 is enough. You've now made it 3. 3 threads for the most obvious nondebate of all time. Then again, expecting anything less on a Guns N' Roses forum (Tommy Stinson is a member of Guns N' Roses, isn't he?) where the OP is intentionally misleading, and those such as yourself rally around a man who proudly admits a complete lack of knowledge on the subject would be a bit much to ask.

Oh grow up, you're in this thread, you can't argue your point, get yourself all worked up and then follow me to other threads trying to take the piss out of my nationality cuz you've gotten all emotional about the fact that you've got called out for bullshitting, how is that me taking it to other threads? Honestly, and then you question Damn Smooths maturity

It's OK y'know, we're all friends here, it ain't no crime to've been wrong, you don't have to get all menstrual about it and attempt to engineer some kind of childish internet vendetta, there's really no need for it.

I'm noticing a pattern of ignorance in those who pick Stinson as more influential... Just an observation.

I'm noticing your utter inability to commit to your assertions and umpteen attempts to change the terms of the discussion, divert it completely by directing me to read entire other threads that I've nothing to do with and on top of that making totally false statements that are easily refuted that you then refuse to address because 'i don't want to repeat myself', yeah, neither would I if i was talking nonsense.

Edited March 1, 2014 by sugaraylen

[John Bonham]

Any thing cool Tommy may (or may not) have done in the '80s has surely been reversed, by the enormous pile of LAME his career has been for the last 25 years.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Any thing cool Tommy may (or may not) have done in the '80s has surely been reversed, by the enormous pile of LAME his career has been for the last 25 years.

Were that true Axls career achievements pre-93 should be stricken from record