Mr_Sparkle Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 yes, but what that does, is mean that there are shit loads of people out there looking for IT jobs, and so there is a higher supply, and hence the price goes down....For Example:In this graph, you can see that there has been an increase in supply. This means that for every amount supplied, there is a decrease in price. (hence the shift from the supply curve to the right) This can of course be applied to the labour market...Yes, the # of jobs go down... but that doesn't mean the market is flooded with every dropout. It means it's flooded with overqualified people having to take less money in order to find a job in IT. Unless you have a skill that is always in demand i.e. linux engineer ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 Yes, the # of jobs go down... but that doesn't mean the market is flooded with every dropout. It means it's flooded with overqualified people having to take less money in order to find a job in IT. Unless you have a skill that is always in demand i.e. linux engineer ;DNo!Ahhh... But you see a change in supply has no effect on the demand schedule... The amount of jobs actually increases. For example:as the supply schedule moves to the right, you can see that demand actually increased due to the decreased wages...This occurs as a result of the subsequent increase in supply.....And even for the more specialised jobs (such as engineers), as the supply increases, the wage outcomes change.So at point x you have the equilibrium price before the supposed "influx of high school drop outs" which results in reasonable wages. As the "high school drop outs" flood the market, they bring the price down to point Y. At this point you have an expansion in demand due to lower prices, and hence lower wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sparkle Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 Ugh, look... what i am telling you is this. The IT jobs are WAY down in America right now. So, 'drop' outs aren't flocking to a job market that isn't there. The jobs are going down. The economy is going down. Drop outs aren't flooding the IT industry bringing down wages. The amount of IT professionals is the same, the market is just flooded right now because the jobs aren't there... people are getting laid off, and those people are all fighting for the few jobs that are available. It has NOTHING to do with people rushing into the IT field. Redhat and Microsoft are chargeing $2000-$3000 per class to help eliminate some of this. I don't know about you, but i don't know many 'drop' outs that can afford $2000 per class. I don't know how it is in Aussie land, but here.. there are no jobs, which means not many people are gettign IT degrees at the moment, and company's are laying off lots of IT people so THOSE people are the ones out there fighting for the jobs, not 'every other dropout'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauda Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 well obviously there are going to be wage differentials etc, but the general market and market movements are a worldwide thing with globalisation and all, but the basic trends are different...And just to be an arsehole i will point out that as the demand in Norway is low for such things due to its population etc, as is the supply, so the size of the country has nothing to do with it.. Unless you look at other issues such as econonomies of scale which can benefit workers in a smaller country since production is not as hard pressed or efficiently designedThe size of the country has something to do with it because if you are really good at something there will be 200 companies in the States wanting you while in Norway there migth be 3.. Then the wage will be pushed up.. However, with the market Mr.Sparky described it does not seem as the wage are pushed up.. It would more be like the best keeps their jobs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 The size of the country has something to do with it because if you are really good at something there will be 200 companies in the States wanting you while in Norway there migth be 3.. Then the wage will be pushed up.. However, with the market Mr.Sparky described it does not seem as the wage are pushed up.. It would more be like the best keeps their jobs..but you see thats actually incorrect, becuase while there might only be 3 firms due to population size, then there would only be 3 people who could do that kind of job. It might just be that in the US, they have 10 000 jobs and 9000 employees, but the demand in the US would be the same in a smaller nation with 10 jobs and only 9 people to full those jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 Ugh, look... what i am telling you is this. The IT jobs are WAY down in America right now. So, 'drop' outs aren't flocking to a job market that isn't there. The jobs are going down. The economy is going down. Drop outs aren't flooding the IT industry bringing down wages. The amount of IT professionals is the same, the market is just flooded right now because the jobs aren't there... people are getting laid off, and those people are all fighting for the few jobs that are available. It has NOTHING to do with people rushing into the IT field. Redhat and Microsoft are chargeing $2000-$3000 per class to help eliminate some of this. I don't know about you, but i don't know many 'drop' outs that can afford $2000 per class. I don't know how it is in Aussie land, but here.. there are no jobs, which means not many people are gettign IT degrees at the moment, and company's are laying off lots of IT people so THOSE people are the ones out there fighting for the jobs, not 'every other dropout'.well i respect what your saying, but thats as a result of flooding....(i.e. more poeple entering the industry)Yes, trends in the business cycle tend to affect the aggregate demand for IT professionals, but no more than any other industry. Not taking the economy into account, there is a worldwide "flooding" of IT labour.Now, obviously what you do is not under any threat of losing job / pay cuts etc, but thats becuase you are a highly trained professional (but then i never said that)... For your general IT jobs which dont require such expertise, there is flooding, and i would be slightly worried if i was in that industry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sparkle Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 There is no flooding at the moment in the US since IT classes cost $2000 each and there are no jobs to be had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR21 Posted December 15, 2002 Share Posted December 15, 2002 What's all the fuss about ???I thought this was for loyal fans to sign.True Guns 'N Roses fan, Derek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 There is no flooding at the moment in the US since IT classes cost $2000 each and there are no jobs to be had.can i ask what you mean by classes??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 What's all the fuss about ???I thought this was for loyal fans to sign.True Guns 'N Roses fan, Derek.Haha... Me and mr sparkle like to argue a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Well at least i do! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauda Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 but you see thats actually incorrect, becuase while there might only be 3 firms due to population size, then there would only be 3 people who could do that kind of job. It might just be that in the US, they have 10 000 jobs and 9000 employees, but the demand in the US would be the same in a smaller nation with 10 jobs and only 9 people to full those jobs.Yea.. If you wanna be bitchy.. In theory I could agree with your stuff but I think that the top 3000 of the Us people gets more money than the best in Norway.. And also because more is on stake in bigger countries.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrlies Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 well yes, but thats not a result of size...Thats a result of economic differences...(well actually the 3000 population thing probably is to do with population, but thats not really relevant) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gauda Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 well yes, but thats not a result of size...Thats a result of economic differences...(well actually the 3000 population thing probably is to do with population, but thats not really relevant)I "compared" the top 13 in Us with the top 13 in Norway.. Thats why I found that relevant..Should we call it a tie? I don`t exactly burn for this case.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sparkle Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 can i ask what you mean by classes???College courses... Red Hat and Microsoft are setting priceses to get certified in their products at $2000 per class, in some casses $3000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnrfans Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 why do you guys call yourselves "pregnant dogs"? :thats funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted December 16, 2002 Share Posted December 16, 2002 Of course. I was, am, and always will be a true and loyal GN'R fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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