mcalldp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I see what you mean, still seems like a lot of debt to cover, making this a bigger gamble. How's this work, is G N' R responsible for this cost in the long run or does the record company or something end up eating it?3 million to break even.....wow.Tours can go either way depending on expenses and overhead, they can make money or lose money and still be viable as a promotional tool for the CD....I have not idea what the figures on tourse and past CD sales are for GN'R but would be interested in finding out and compaing that to figure out where they'll have to go to cover what's already spent on this.Still, expecting at least 3 million in sales just to recoup is a lot of big numbers.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) You're not looking at it logically though. The album will generate a huge increase in GN'R. If people like CD, they might go out and and buy live era because they haven't got it. They might go to a few shows - there are other avenues for the money to return back to the band.From Axl's point of view, i don't think the object of this album is to make money, if it was it would have been out years ago.R. Edited February 27, 2006 by x_Estranged_x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f**k_your_enemy Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Noone will lose any money from Chinese Democracy and Guns N' Roses return.. other than us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcalldp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Painkiller, no I am not stupid, I am curious With 12-13 mill in debt on a product that's not even for sale and no release date, parts that may still be in recording, a full time band on the payroll etc... I think it's perfectly reasonible to wonder what the sales int he past have amounted too, how long it took to reach those figures, how much profit is made off the CD, who banks the amount spent. So far it seems that the record company may own the profits until the debt is caught up and that 3 million copies may have to be sold just to do that.I'm not saying AXL is the next MC Hammer of going broke but it's a viable financial question and obviously when the record companies release a greatest hits against the artist wishes to make some money off of a band that hasn't produced in over a decade, they are watching the bottom line as well.There are no stupid questions so STFU Estranged, good point about sales on other albums. Actually, I bet the sales of old albums are going up just from the internet leak hype that seems to ahve gone mainstream.Thanks for the info all. :krider: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Matt13 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 There's no question the album will make up for any debt rather quickly. If it has a couple of top 10 hits on it, it should sell 3 million copies alone in the US the first year out. With it's cost probably being close to $20 at most music outlets, only 1.5 million or so will have to really be sold. The record company will get a good chunk of that 20 bucks... probaby about 7-8 dollars on each sale depending on the deal they work out. GNR will also generate good concert revenues if the album is a modest success. That's where most bands make their money anyway. After paying promoters, producers, the label and the folks selling the CD,s, the band is usually left with very little. I'm not expert here, but this is my guess:)M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kickingthehabit Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 A lot of you just don't get it..Record companies are not looking to simply make back their investment. An album is only considered a success when it's profit more than doubles..Some of you are probably thinking..$15.00 (purchase price) x 2,000,000 (copies)= $30,000,000 (profit)YEH, AXEL IS RICH~!Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in the real world..When Guns N' Roses first released Appetite for Destruction, all five members received a royalty rate of $0.25 per unit. The album went on to sell 15 million copies..In total, each member was paid a little over $3,000,000 in profit..It's a nice profit.. but then you also have to key in several factors:-marketing/promotion (performances, commercials, advertisements, music videos, radio airplay, interviews.)-touring (reserving the venues, the promoter, construction crew, sound team, stage lighting, special effect visuals, video screens, pyrotechnics,.. the list goes on.)-divisions of the record label (they will see profit before the band.)-recording budget (initial recording, studio sessions, mixing, additional musicians, instrument rentals, etc.)-management (they can take 15-20% of the bands profit.)-production team (a producer can charge well over $100,000 for one song.)I could go on if you'd like,.. but I'm sure you get the point. Hell,.. performances today on an MTV, or Grammy stage can easily cost an artist $250,000..Why do you think Rose hasn't planned any US dates? No promotional organization will touch him after the flop of the 2002 tour, and the debacle with Clear Channel..You may all enjoy the album, but it's unlikely to find the success it needs to cover it's growing debt.. We'll see what happens..-Kickingthehabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcalldp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Thanks for the insight kickingthehabit.I think it can get paid off but I also think it a huge debt attached to an unreleased product.Yea, all those extra costs and the amount a band really makes from the CD sales are of interesting note. It could very easily take several years before true profits start to be seen, if the album is a long term seller like that. How many sales have there been for AFD to date? (We're talking almost 20 years of sales on a HUGE HIT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokingarthur Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Axl's personal profit per album is somewhere around $2.00. You think he makes everything on each sale? Are you so stupid? And the 13 million figure, was quite some time ago. I am sure it is much more by now. Keep in mind Michael Jackson's "Invincible" cost around $20 million to make. It will take some time to make a profit on the new album. But I am sure it will help sell every other GNR album already out. There will also be concert sales and merchandising. If this album is the precursor for the return of GNR, then everything could be fine. But if Axl releases and goes back to his old tricks, financial viability will not be realized. And the future profit of the GNR name will suffer. It is now or never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightcrawler Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 The advance money given by the label will be Axls to eat. He chose to use the advance to spend so much time on the album. The label always gets paid first once it's released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Chaos Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Thanks for the insight kickingthehabit.I think it can get paid off but I also think it a huge debt attached to an unreleased product.Yea, all those extra costs and the amount a band really makes from the CD sales are of interesting note. It could very easily take several years before true profits start to be seen, if the album is a long term seller like that. How many sales have there been for AFD to date? (We're talking almost 20 years of sales on a HUGE HIT)I just bought a copy yesterday cuz i broke my old cd at a party over the weekend when i put it in the cd player with so much emotion it shattered all over inside the cd player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliverjazz Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 When people say Cd is the most expensive album we might end up dividing it by 3 since it might be 3 albums worth of recording costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcalldp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 maybe, but I have a feeling the cream of the crop is being picked for CD so that might leave us with sub par albums from that material compared to CD OR additional fine tuning and recording of the other tracks before release adding more expense.... Is CD the most expensive album of all time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
November_rain Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Most of you forget that Axl makes music for himself and he doesn´t care about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gin_hotel Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 1. chinese democracy 2. better 3 I.R.S. 4 our new disease 6 the blues 7 T.W.A.T. 8 rhiad and the bedouins 9 catcher in the rye 10 everything they stole from me (everything i lost) 11 killer at the funeral 12 prophets and sadie 13 madagascar rock1 is this the tracklist?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kert Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Most of you forget that Axl makes music for himself and he doesn´t care about the money.Yea, i thought about that too...well, im gona help him with my share Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcalldp Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Most of you forget that Axl makes music for himself and he doesn´t care about the money.Uh..maybe. Or maybe, like most any human he cares about both. All things equal though, sales need to be good enough to pay off the 12 mill spent to record it or you can forget about anyone footing the bill to record the next one....so if he cares about releasing future music the bottom line has to fit in somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetness Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 (edited) Who cares? Just release the damn album, let Axl deal with his finances. Edited February 27, 2006 by sweetness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uzeurilluzion Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 So if it's already ate up 12-13 million in studio money who's had to pay for that? The album will have to sell enough to reimburse that before even thinking about profit...that's a lot of money for an album to make....Even if this album is a complete smash and sells likke crazy it may not make money, thoughts?Well keep in mind that 13 million includes 32 songs not just 13 on CD. Therefore you can say that some of that 13 million was used for future GNR albums provided that Mr. Rose is sticking to his 3 album plan. So you can't really say that all 13 million went towards Chinese Democracy.When people say Cd is the most expensive album we might end up dividing it by 3 since it might be 3 albums worth of recording costs.Sorry, didn't see that you made that point first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojan Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Thanks for the insight kickingthehabit.I think it can get paid off but I also think it a huge debt attached to an unreleased product.Yea, all those extra costs and the amount a band really makes from the CD sales are of interesting note. It could very easily take several years before true profits start to be seen, if the album is a long term seller like that. How many sales have there been for AFD to date? (We're talking almost 20 years of sales on a HUGE HIT)its has sold 25 million and still selling strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin_Pig Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 1. chinese democracy 2. better 3 I.R.S. 4 our new disease 6 the blues 7 T.W.A.T. 8 rhiad and the bedouins 9 catcher in the rye 10 everything they stole from me (everything i lost) 11 killer at the funeral 12 prophets and sadie 13 madagascar rock1 is this the tracklist??stop posting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnR lives on Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 ok just a few things...a)13 million are made up by 650 000 albums at 20 dollars a piece...b)The Rolling Stones and u2 made well over 100 million last year in money from the tours......c) Guns n Roses album sales now will also generate interest in older Gn'R albums as well..making even more money for them..so no guns n roses are highly unlikely to lose money unless 1,000 people see each tour show and CD sells 300,000 copies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Smiley Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 gotta figuer 12-13 million on 30+ songs, not to mention who knows how many remixes and other versions of the songs. So they don't lose any money, they most likey will make money. Not to mention, he most likey have 3-4 cd's come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNRfan001 Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 maybe not CD by itseld.... CD shirts and stuff all together will get it up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eschman Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Except there's 3 albums worth of material, which will easily make profit if cd doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl-rocks Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Didn't Axl use some of his own money to make the CD?That's what I heard don't know if it's true or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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