I'm tired of the ragging on Robin and Co.

[shootingstar]

i think as long as magament doesn't promote the new guys they will look like hired help and the band looks week. when they do interviews together sign stuff together take pics together talk about life on the road memories with another and don't forget a album to go with that and getting sick of on antoher we'll know thier a sold band. we will also know this is what axl wants. there will always be people whom want the old band back together but when its not an option they will have to accept someone else or not listen when ther's no other choice but it seems the door is open for choices because axls or managment really hasn't done a whole lot to make this look like band and not talented musicans playing a tour together. I personally like the new and the old band. but would like to see some promotion for the new guys so it doesn't seem they are in the old members shadows. but the negive attacking of thier playing needs to stop thier all talented musicans in their own way

I agree. Guns should be promoted more as a band.. Because of all the reasons u mentiononed. In interviews of current members it´s clearly that this is a real band and according to Stinson(or/and richard) this album has taken so long because of the LACK OF dictatorship. Axl wanted all the members to make as great impact in this album as possible and this take time. Of course he can be considered as the leader, but not in that classic way a band leader usally be. He has the final word, but in the making of their music I can imagine that he is, and not consider himself, on a higher level. He just an ordinary member, but when it comes to final decissions he have another role, maby more like an producer. Still he just a band member when they work on songs open for suggestions. Fincks "BETTER" proves that.

[Gunzen]

AND Axl PAYED for keeping the name, a fact people here keep ignoring.

And that's the problem. Why did he had to buy the name for fuck's sake ? Why did he need to own the name ? Greed ? Power trip ? What was going on in Axl's head ?

maybe he just feels more comfortable with it, why not, he is the most responsible for it. Say what you want about the other guys, Axl is the bext part of GNR, regardless of era. He just it.

Ever tried to be more diplomatic? Just a little?

You mean by saying something that isn't true. Call a spade a spade. Dude, prolific lead singers are the most important part of great bands. Period. Ever head another band cover a GNR song? seriously? If you wanna call new GNR a cover band fine (but they arent, they are a real band now). But with Axl singing they are almost as good. Put aother singer in there and you have shit. It is not about being diplomatic dude. It is about being truthful. Axl is the draw. Now maybe a band can become good (velvet revolver w/out Axl) but they cant play GNR music cause it is branded with Axl voice. A guitar can be replicated, a frontman/distinguishable voice cant. How many times have we heard a lowsy cover? Do we ever blame it on the drums? Or even the guitar playing? Nope, we blame it on the singer. It may be unfair to the singer who may be great in his own right, but that is the way it is. Try listening to soundgarden songs w/out Cornell? Doesnt work, that is a fact dude.

You wanna sugar coat it, fine, I dont waste my keystrokes. Why the hell are you guys even on this forum? Cause Axl is prolific and at any time he can turn music on its perverbial ear that why. Why are you not on VR's website this much? And I know you arent for the most part. Hell there is three times as many GNR guys there. You know why, cause Axl is the shit.

And I am not kissing his ass, dont know him and never will. I just like his musiic and style. rock1

Edited December 27, 2006 by Gunzen

[Guest Apollo]

AND Axl PAYED for keeping the name, a fact people here keep ignoring.

And that's the problem. Why did he had to buy the name for fuck's sake ? Why did he need to own the name ? Greed ? Power trip ? What was going on in Axl's head ?

maybe he just feels more comfortable with it, why not, he is the most responsible for it. Say what you want about the other guys, Axl is the bext part of GNR, regardless of era. He just it.

Ever tried to be more diplomatic? Just a little?

You mean by saying something that isn't true. Call a spade a spade. Dude, prolific lead singers are the most important part of great bands. Period. Ever head another band cover a GNR song? seriously? If you wanna call new GNR a cover band fine (but they arent, they are a real band now). But with Axl singing they are almost as good. Put aother singer in there and you have shit. It is not about being diplomatic dude. It is about being truthful. Axl is the draw. Now maybe a band can become good (velvet revolver w/out Axl) but they cant play GNR music cause it is branded with Axl voice. A guitar can be replicated, a frontman/distinguishable voice cant. How many times have we heard a lowsy cover? Do we ever blame it on the drums? Or even the guitar playing? Nope, we blame it on the singer. It may be unfair to the singer who may be great in his own right, but that is the way it is. Try listening to soundgarden songs w/out Cornell? Doesnt work, that is a fact dude.

You wanna sugar coat it, fine, I dont waste my keystrokes. Why the hell are you guys even on this forum? Cause Axl is prolific and at any time he can turn music on its perverbial ear that why. Why are you not on VR's website this much? And I know you arent for the most part. Hell there is three times as many GNR guys there. You know why, cause Axl is the shit.

And I am not kissing his ass, dont know him and never will. I just like his musiic and style. rock1

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mr.b]

I cannot believe at this point in time that people are still on about this shit, they left and were replaced. The new songs are better than anything on the UYI albums anyways, and yes that is what I believe. But thats not what this is about is it, the music?? GOD notting on the forum is ever about the music, this is worse than politics...

[Guest Apollo]

Yep, that was my quote. And seriously, if THAT annoys you, that's sad. There are far more important things in the world to get upset about.

Ooohhhh, my forum friend. I thought you were smarter than this.

In terms of what annoys or bothers me in the "real" world . . . . rest assured that the forum plays NO part in that. At all.

But when I take that 15-30 minute break from reality, and go online to talk with fellow Guns N Roses fans . . . then I am able to shut out the real world and delve into gnr-talk.

While on a GUNS N ROSES forum, it annoys me when people rip apart members of Axl's current band. I haven't heard the backlash against other bands/singers in the same predictament. The best example being DLR and Van Halen. I didn't hear anybody saying Stevie Vai only played with DLR so he could live off of Eddie's legacy.

So let's put away the condenscending keystrokes and try and stick to the issue at hand.

If you'd like to talk about real world issues, then PM me and we can discuss whatever you want. Or, I'll meet you in the Anything Goes section and we can debate/agree/discuss any topic you'd like.

But while we are in the GUNS N ROSES forum . . . I'm gonna continue to base my comments and posts on GUNS N ROSES topics. Maybe you can do the same thing?

Edited December 28, 2006 by Apollo

[da_pope]

Velvet Revolver contains 3 times as many GNR members as Axl's current line-up. Yet despite this, as well as having a singer from a successful band of his own, AND with an album out that was well recieved...when they did Download, they were a mid-card act.

Mid card?

I thought they were the last band on before Sabbath.

Believe me, Sharon wouldn't put anyone after Sabbath, no way no how. Not GNR, not Zeppelin, not anyone.

The fact remains.

On merit, no fucking way should this current band be a headliner for anything. But they have one of the most instantly recognizable and marketable band names of the past 20 years.

Only a complete fool would not want that. And you are seriously deluding yourself if you don't for ONE SECOND think Slash and Duff rue the day they signed all that shit away.

And we all know the story about the show in Minnesota. Here is what I do, if I'm them.

By that point, I have come to the determination that its just not working with Axl anymore. So once he threatens not to go on, I call his bluff. The show is cancelled, and likely there is a riot. Maybe even the rest of the tour is scrapped.

So you pin it on Axl, whose reputation by that point is just godawful anyway. No one is going to dfoubt you on that. Then Slash, Gilby, Duff, and Matt get a new singer and continue on as Guns N' Roses.

That's what I would have done.

Hindsight is always 20/20.

Edited December 28, 2006 by da_pope

[GeorgeGlass]

B)-->

QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The new songs are better than anything on the UYI albums anyways, and yes that is what I believe.

Are you autistic or something? That's the only explanation for a comment like this.

[da_pope]

You mean by saying something that isn't true. Call a spade a spade. Dude, prolific lead singers are the most important part of great bands. Period. Ever head another band cover a GNR song? seriously? If you wanna call new GNR a cover band fine (but they arent, they are a real band now). But with Axl singing they are almost as good. Put aother singer in there and you have shit. It is not about being diplomatic dude. It is about being truthful. Axl is the draw. Now maybe a band can become good (velvet revolver w/out Axl) but they cant play GNR music cause it is branded with Axl voice. A guitar can be replicated, a frontman/distinguishable voice cant. How many times have we heard a lowsy cover? Do we ever blame it on the drums? Or even the guitar playing? Nope, we blame it on the singer. It may be unfair to the singer who may be great in his own right, but that is the way it is. Try listening to soundgarden songs w/out Cornell? Doesnt work, that is a fact dude.

You wanna sugar coat it, fine, I dont waste my keystrokes. Why the hell are you guys even on this forum? Cause Axl is prolific and at any time he can turn music on its perverbial ear that why. Why are you not on VR's website this much? And I know you arent for the most part. Hell there is three times as many GNR guys there. You know why, cause Axl is the shit.

And I am not kissing his ass, dont know him and never will. I just like his musiic and style. rock1

Umm... VR plays the GN'R material they cover better then NuGNR does.

And it's not even close. Cause you see, when Slash plays the Mr. Brownstone solo it doesn't sound like someone is murdering a guitar.

Now, to all you saying that Axl makes GN'R and he is God and all that...

Explain this to me.

How come I've never ONCE in my WHOLE FUCKING LIFE seen any GN'R songs on a list of the best vocal preformance of all time? How come on any guitar related list you can almost garuntee that there will be Guns song in the top 10? Hell you can even expect to see 2 in some cases.

Fuck. Off.

Edited December 28, 2006 by da_pope

[mr.b]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 05:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

The new songs are better than anything on the UYI albums anyways, and yes that is what I believe.

Are you autistic or something? That's the only explanation for a comment like this.

Am ok? Or is it possible that I just find the newer music way more interesting than anything on the UYI albums. Chinese democracy songs are more powerful IMO than the UYI songs and are far better written IMO. And OMG is GNR's best song ever. And TWAT has more potential to be amazing. The UYI albums are kind of boring and the guitar work is soooo repetitive, something the current line up doesnt suffer from. This is my taste not yours...

[da_pope]

B)-->

QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Am ok? Or is it possible that I just find the newer music way more interesting than anything on the UYI albums. Chinese democracy songs are more powerful IMO than the UYI songs and are far better written IMO. And OMG is GNR's best song ever. And TWAT has more potential to be amazing. The UYI albums are kind of boring and the guitar work is soooo repetitive, something the current line up doesnt suffer from. This is my taste not yours...

Well your taste is wrong.

I didn't think it was possible for an opinion to be wrong but seriously. Do you have some of Axl's cum plugging your ears or something?

[mr.b]

You mean by saying something that isn't true. Call a spade a spade. Dude, prolific lead singers are the most important part of great bands. Period. Ever head another band cover a GNR song? seriously? If you wanna call new GNR a cover band fine (but they arent, they are a real band now). But with Axl singing they are almost as good. Put aother singer in there and you have shit. It is not about being diplomatic dude. It is about being truthful. Axl is the draw. Now maybe a band can become good (velvet revolver w/out Axl) but they cant play GNR music cause it is branded with Axl voice. A guitar can be replicated, a frontman/distinguishable voice cant. How many times have we heard a lowsy cover? Do we ever blame it on the drums? Or even the guitar playing? Nope, we blame it on the singer. It may be unfair to the singer who may be great in his own right, but that is the way it is. Try listening to soundgarden songs w/out Cornell? Doesnt work, that is a fact dude.

You wanna sugar coat it, fine, I dont waste my keystrokes. Why the hell are you guys even on this forum? Cause Axl is prolific and at any time he can turn music on its perverbial ear that why. Why are you not on VR's website this much? And I know you arent for the most part. Hell there is three times as many GNR guys there. You know why, cause Axl is the shit.

And I am not kissing his ass, dont know him and never will. I just like his musiic and style. rock1

Umm... VR plays the GN'R material they cover better then NuGNR does.

And it's not even close. Cause you see, when Slash plays the Mr. Brownstone solo it doesn't sound like someone is murdering a guitar.

Now, to all you saying that Axl makes GN'R and he is God and all that...

Explain this to me.

How come I've never ONCE in my WHOLE FUCKING LIFE seen any GN'R songs on a list of the best vocal preformance of all time? How come on any guitar related list you can almost garuntee that there will be Guns song in the top 10? Hell you can even expect to see 2 in some cases.

Fuck. Off.

We all know Axl isn't a brilliant singer, he just doesnt have the power. He is the best preformer I have ever seen tho. A brilliant songwriter. And before you kiss Slash's ass anymore, at the time they needed each other, that SCOM riff would have been notting without that voice, just another blues riff (written by Izzy apparently). I think on Chinese Democracy, we will really see Axl shine as a singer...

[Guest Apollo]

Umm... VR plays the GN'R material they cover better then NuGNR does.

And it's not even close. Cause you see, when Slash plays the Mr. Brownstone solo it doesn't sound like someone is murdering a guitar.

Now, to all you saying that Axl makes GN'R and he is God and all that...

Explain this to me.

How come I've never ONCE in my WHOLE FUCKING LIFE seen any GN'R songs on a list of the best vocal preformance of all time? How come on any guitar related list you can almost garuntee that there will be Guns song in the top 10? Hell you can even expect to see 2 in some cases.

Fuck. Off.

Because you have blinders on????

Because some people judge the value of a band by ALL parts, and not just by how great a solo is?

Joe Satriani maybe one of the most talented guitar players of all time, but how many songs of his are listed in the top . . . 500 songs of all time???? None.

You may think that the guitar work in a song is what makes or breaks it. The rest of the world looks at the entire song. The singing. The drumming. THe bass parts. The lyrics.

Your example is ludicrous.

Eric Piatkowski is rated as one of the top 10 3-point shooters in NBA history. Does that mean he's one of the 10 best players of ALL TIME????? I could name 500 basketball players better than him.

So you go jerk off all over yourself to Slash's solos and guitar playing. The rest of us will value a song by ALL PARTS. That's what makes a band, son. Not ONE person - but a singer, drummer, lead guitar, rhy guitar, bass player, drummer and sometimes keyboarder.

And if Slash was the reason GnR was relevant . . . why hasn't he done anything relevant or earth shattering or music changing WITHOUT Axl??????? Why can I buy Snakepit CDs for a buck apiece at my pawn shop cd section?

[da_pope]

B)-->

QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We all know Axl isn't a brilliant singer, he just doesnt have the power. He is the best preformer I have ever seen tho. A brilliant songwriter. And before you kiss Slash's ass anymore, at the time they needed each other, that SCOM riff would have been notting without that voice, just another blues riff (written by Izzy apparently). I think on Chinese Democracy, we will really see Axl shine as a singer...

Just another blues riff?

How does that work seeing how the riff is the first thing you hear in the whole song? It's what catches your attention. A riff isn't called "The Greatest Riff of All-Time" for being carried by vocals. I mean even Axl would tell you that the SCOM riff is what makes that song. If he and the rest of the band didn't think so they wouldn't decide to build the song around it.

And Slash wrote that riff. No one even disputes it.

[mr.b]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 06:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

Am ok? Or is it possible that I just find the newer music way more interesting than anything on the UYI albums. Chinese democracy songs are more powerful IMO than the UYI songs and are far better written IMO. And OMG is GNR's best song ever. And TWAT has more potential to be amazing. The UYI albums are kind of boring and the guitar work is soooo repetitive, something the current line up doesnt suffer from. This is my taste not yours...

Well your taste is wrong.

I didn't think it was possible for an opinion to be wrong but seriously. Do you have some of Axl's cum plugging your ears or something?

Am right... Well, it was actually the uitarwork that really turned me towards this line ups work. Like in CD, the build up at the end as the song gets consistantly heavier. Or that amazing solo in TWAT done by Mr. Finck. The riff to better is so different to anything I have ever heard (yes I may have lived in a box but I am expanding my collection). I loved the riff to the blues, before it disappered. And in Madagascar, that solo, the guitar actually sounds like someone is wailing IMO, brilliant and different. Thats what gets my vote, songs that are different, not the same thing just different vocals and rythem, same solo just twicked(sp)...

[da_pope]

Because you have blinders on????

Because some people judge the value of a band by ALL parts, and not just by how great a solo is?

Joe Satriani maybe one of the most talented guitar players of all time, but how many songs of his are listed in the top . . . 500 songs of all time???? None.

You may think that the guitar work in a song is what makes or breaks it. The rest of the world looks at the entire song. The singing. The drumming. THe bass parts. The lyrics.

Umm... Way to completly miss the point of my post!

I wasn't saying that Slash makes the band or anything. Infact that was directed at all the people who were saying Axl makes the band. I just used there logic against them saying that if Axl's individual preformance were so great then how come Slash's parts are the ones honoured with so much praise.

But thanks for that.

[mr.b]

B)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->

We all know Axl isn't a brilliant singer, he just doesnt have the power. He is the best preformer I have ever seen tho. A brilliant songwriter. And before you kiss Slash's ass anymore, at the time they needed each other, that SCOM riff would have been notting without that voice, just another blues riff (written by Izzy apparently). I think on Chinese Democracy, we will really see Axl shine as a singer...

Just another blues riff?

How does that work seeing how the riff is the first thing you hear in the whole song? It's what catches your attention. A riff isn't called "The Greatest Riff of All-Time" for being carried by vocals. I mean even Axl would tell you that the SCOM riff is what makes that song. If he and the rest of the band didn't think so they wouldn't decide to build the song around it.

And Slash wrote that riff. No one even disputes it.

Ok, take it the way im seeing what you say, you take that riff and put someone, lets say, Scott singing, would the song have been anything of a hit? I highly doubt it. The song would haven't been anything without the band that did it at the time, it just worked. Also if the Scom riff is so amazing how come it wasn't till it was released that it became the famous hit it is known as today...

[Kill_YourIdols]

We all know Axl isn't a brilliant singer, he just doesnt have the power.

he's not a brilliant singer!?!?!?he just doesn't have the power?!?!?!?you really have problems he has one of the most incredible voices i've ever heard listen to his voice on the hollywood rose album and tell me he doesn't have power

god there are some really stupid people here

[da_pope]

B)-->

QUOTE(mr.b @ Dec 27 2006, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok, take it the way im seeing what you say, you take that riff and put someone, lets say, Scott singing, would the song have been anything of a hit? I highly doubt it. The song would haven't been anything without the band that did it at the time, it just worked. Also if the Scom riff is so amazing how come it wasn't till it was released that it became the famous hit it is known as today...

Yes. If the song was the same it would've been a hit.

But there is no Sweet Child O' Mine without that riff.

And how the hell was it suppose to be famous before it was released?

Are you retarted?

[Guest Apollo]

And it's well documented that Slash didn't LIKE SCOM at all and didn't want to play the song!!!!

I've also read that he didn't like Nov Rain either.

Slash and Axl TOGETHER created amazing music.

Without each other, neither man has created music that will last a lifetime.

Slash has had three albums now to do it - while Axl is about to put out his first. No matter how much you love Slash, you gotta admit that Axl's chances are WAY better to be a major player in the music industry.

Liberated will sell 1-2 million copies, allow them to headline a small stadium tour and probably open for a major headliner.

Chinese Democracy will probably sell 5-6 million copies and allow GnR to headline a world tour.

Those are the facts sir.

Axl still has the potential for greatness. Velvet Revolver does not.

[Kill_YourIdols]

Apollo Posted Today, 08:33 PM

And it's well documented that Slash didn't LIKE SCOM at all and didn't want to play the song!!!!

I've also read that he didn't like Nov Rain either.

Slash and Axl TOGETHER created amazing music.

Without each other, neither man has created music that will last a lifetime.

Slash has had three albums now to do it - while Axl is about to put out his first. No matter how much you love Slash, you gotta admit that Axl's chances are WAY better to be a major player in the music industry.

Liberated will sell 1-2 million copies, allow them to headline a small stadium tour and probably open for a major headliner.

Chinese Democracy will probably sell 5-6 million copies and allow GnR to headline a world tour.

Those are the facts sir.

Axl still has the potential for greatness. Velvet Revolver does not.

where the fuck it's documented that slash didn't like SCOM and NR but on the other things i agree with you

[da_pope]

And it's well documented that Slash didn't LIKE SCOM at all and didn't want to play the song!!!!

I've also read that he didn't like Nov Rain either.

Slash and Axl TOGETHER created amazing music.

Without each other, neither man has created music that will last a lifetime.

Slash has had three albums now to do it - while Axl is about to put out his first. No matter how much you love Slash, you gotta admit that Axl's chances are WAY better to be a major player in the music industry.

Liberated will sell 1-2 million copies, allow them to headline a small stadium tour and probably open for a major headliner.

Chinese Democracy will probably sell 5-6 million copies and allow GnR to headline a world tour.

Those are the facts sir.

Axl still has the potential for greatness. Velvet Revolver does not.

THATS WHAT I'M TRYING TO FUCKING SAY.

That Axl and Slash needed each other. What part of this post don't you guys get?!

Umm... Way to completly miss the point of my post!

I wasn't saying that Slash makes the band or anything. Infact that was directed at all the people who were saying Axl makes the band. I just used there logic against them saying that if Axl's individual preformance were so great then how come Slash's parts are the ones honoured with so much praise.

But thanks for that.

Oh and VR has already released a multiplatnium selling album, Won a grammy, Headlined a world arena tour and have ALOT more respect in the music industry the Axl and co. so I don't see what you're saying. You're also basing those predictions for CD off what? Curiosity doesn't sell 5 million albums. Infact Rock itself doesn't sell 5 million albums anymore.

Edited December 28, 2006 by da_pope

[Kickingthehabit]

Oh and VR has already released a multiplatnium selling album, Won a grammy, Headlined a world arena tour and have ALOT more respect in the music industry the Axl and co. so I don't see what you're saying.

I have to agree..

Industry expectations were particularly low for Velvet Revolver. Remarkably, Contraband debuted at #1 on the Billboard album chart, selling over 250,000 copies. Notably, this marks the best-ever debut for a new rock artist in SoundScan history. Contraband eventually sold over three million copies worldwide..

The band was also named Best New Artist and Best Hard Rock/Metal Band in the Rolling Stone Readers Poll (January 27, 2005). The U.K.'s Classic Rock hailed Contraband as the #1 Album in “The 50 Best Albums, As Chosen By Classic Rock Critics.” Rolling Stone rated it as 4 stars out of 5, saying "it is a rare, fine thing: the sound of the perfect A&R sales pitch turning into a real band."

Velvet Revolver have earned three Grammy nominations: Best Rock Album, Best Rock Song ("Fall To Pieces") and Best Hard Rock Performance (“Slither”), which they won. Fall to Pieces was also #1 on the Mainstream Rock charts for 11 consecutive weeks..

They have toured the U.S., Canada, Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand..

Enjoy the facts..

-Kickingthehabit

[Patience 4 Axl]

And if Slash was the reason GnR was relevant . . . why hasn't he done anything relevant or earth shattering or music changing WITHOUT Axl??????? Why can I buy Snakepit CDs for a buck apiece at my pawn shop cd section?

Why does everything have to be relevant and earth-shattering? Why not appreciate the fact that he didn't go into hiding for the past 15 years and continued to create music and perform for his fans. He doesn't need to "out-do" himself. He's already proven he has the talent.

btw, you can find AFD and Lies in the same dollar bin with Snakepit.

[moreblack]

Chinese Democracy will probably sell 5-6 million copies and allow GnR to headline a world tour.

Those are the facts sir.

Hmmm, that's a bit optimistic....

[Dead Flower]

Slash has had three albums now to do it - while Axl is about to put out his first. No matter how much you love Slash, you gotta admit that Axl's chances are WAY better to be a major player in the music industry.

I think Slash has done exceptionally well for himself with Velvet Revolver and Contraband. It sold well and they headlined their own successful world tour. While perhaps not a "major player" in the music industry, they did win a Grammy, they were asked to play at Live 8, and Slash personally was made a musical director for a song performed live at the Grammy's that included performances by Bono, Steven Tyler, Stevie Wonder, Norah Jones, Alicia Keys, Tim McGraw and Brian Wilson.

Now, those, champ, are facts. Not speculative guesses that you try and pass off as facts.