Vincent Vega

t really doesn't effect me.

But it does, doesn't it?

I was giving you a very reasoned reply from my POV

Yeah and it took you 40 goes at making this thread to do it And still ain't sayin' much.

It doesn't bother me when people take the piss out of them. Maybe at one time. But now? No. I don't hate punk or punk fans. I enjoy some punk, but the thing I dislike is what I see as elitism on the punk of some (not all) punk fans. But every genre has it's elitists. I don't tie myself or my conception of whatever into the Stones and Zep, they're just my favorite bands, but even still it doesn't really bug me when they're mocked. I've mocked both of em at times myself. Mick's an old tart and has been a tart and a sell out since he married Bianca Jagger in '71 and has always been probably the biggest phony in the group, always selling himself to the newest fad....And Led Zeppelin has it's share of cringeworthy fantasy dragon lyrics no doubt and In Through the Out Door is pretty mediocre and has none of the magic, and by then, '79, they'd become a shadow of what they once were. And Page's violin solos seemed a tad too gimmicky and poofy.

You try WAYYY too hard Miser

I'm not trying. It's pretty much an accepted fact that Mick has been a sell out to the latest musical fads since the mid '70s, he clearly expressed his desire to move beyond rock as early as around that time, and as others said he joined the whole jetset crowd and became sort of...a total celebrity, part of the high society establishment....And to this day he's still big in that, he's the one that turned the Stones into an institution.

And Led Zep's empire was derailed by car accidents and tragedies starting in '75, Presence being perceived as a lesser product in '76, a turbulent, violent American tour that ended horribly, and finally them disappearing for most of '77 and '78 and as such falling off the radar only to come back with an overly experimental, half assed sort of album that tried too hard to be whatever was in.

Some Girls with the Stones succeeded because it was the Stones taking elements of punk and disco into their OWN style and mixing it up and doing those genres their way...In Through the Out Door failed because half the band was addled with drugs and instead of trying to make these new musical trends their own, they tried to be punk, they tried to be new wave, it wasn't Led Zep's take, it was Zep poorly playing a part or trying to.

Miser you look at this shit the wrong way, it's just music, it's not a war, a young man growing up probably listened to all sorts of music, Sid Vicious used to like ABBA for crying out loud, it's just the fans that take this shit all way too seriously, everybody listens to all kinds of music, it's everywhere, John Lydon talks in his youth about The Beatles being played tons around the house, you have such a 'design for life' mentality in your approach to music, it's just songs, entertainment.

John Lydon listened to Hawkwind, stuff like Can thats pretty much Prog Rock, or Kraftwerk and...Reggae and soul and Donna Summer he's professed a liking for as far back as 1979, it's just music man, drop your shoulders, learn to enjoy yourself.

I enjoy everything but I enjoy the "kafabe" aspect of it, the pouting and little piss taking and the little wars between fans of this and that genre, it's kinda interesting to see, and how it starts is fascinating. I tend to think that the mid to late 70s were one of the most interesting times in music history, at least modern day, because you had so much going on; Rock of course and all of it's various subgenres all dominant, Metal beginning to separate into it's own subgenres, Glam hanging around and transforming into what it'd become in the 80s; New Wave rising slowly; Disco coming out of nowhere and outshining everything else for a few years; the earliest rumblings of rap beats thumping in the streets; Soul, R&B and the like further diversifying, and finally Punk emerging amidst all this.

And then it seems like you had, at least music fans in the late 70s, a three way war. The Rock kids hated the Disco kings; The Punks were disliked by both crowds it'd seem and probably didn't have much tolerance for Disco I'd imagine. I'm talking on the fan level, not the bands, but the bands helped stoke this sort of war for dominance with the piss taking and the press and media, being the lovers of drama that they are, pushed this 'war' and the kids ate it up. I mean there were instances of fights just over kids wearing "Disco sucks" pins. And as Zint said, if you were a punk in the mid-late 70s, you had legitimate fear of being treated like a weirdo, an outsider, a freak or even getting bashed. So I just find it all a very fascinating time musically, and the little feuds between the various groups and moreso their fans......

No you don't, thats just you making up a load of crap, it effects you deeply when people take the piss out of the music you like, you react like a tart and start lashing out and trying your best to somehow sting the person in question back, like a grown up having a tantrum

The whole heart of the matter with you i think, the crux of it, is that you think The Stones and Zep are the height of cool, that they're just unassailably cool and it bothers you when people take the piss out of them because you don't have any kind sense of humour about yourself and by extension the things you like, thats why you can't let go of this topic, because it troubles you deeply that this thing that you think is cool and edgy that there are people out there that just took the piss out of it and thought it was a load of shit, thats why you always lash out like a little girl at punk and punk bands, cuz you feel like you're being made fun of and you can't bear it.

It really doesn't effect me. I find it amusing....and I'm not lashing out? I was giving you a very reasoned reply from my POV, why I go over this, cause I said, I enjoy the kafabe aspect of it. It's amusing but also interesting.

It doesn't bother me when people take the piss out of them. Maybe at one time. But now? No. I don't hate punk or punk fans. I enjoy some punk (Ramones, Clash, Dead Boys, Patti Smith, Jim Carroll, Fear, proto-punk like The New York Dolls, etc), but the thing I dislike is what I see as elitism on the punk of some (not all) punk fans. But every genre has it's elitists. I don't tie myself or my conception of whatever into the Stones and Zep, they're just my favorite bands, but even still it doesn't really bug me when they're mocked.

I've mocked both of em at times myself. Mick's an old tart and has been a tart and a sell out since he married Bianca Jagger in '71 and has always been probably the biggest phony in the group, always selling himself to the newest fad, and they really haven't made anything truly interesting or ground breaking since the early '80s....And Led Zeppelin has it's share of cringeworthy fantasy dragon teenage silly lyrics no doubt and In Through the Out Door is pretty mediocre and has none of the magic the previous albums had, and by then, '79, they'd become a shadow of what they once were. And Page's violin solos seemed a tad too gimmicky and poofy.

Anybody agree with me that Miser spam with his same old shit topics on these sections?

If yes, post here, pls

If no pls post why not

The day my threads stop getting upwards of 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 replies, then maybe let's consider it. But no one's forced to post in or even read any threads I make--Your opinions on their merit or quality aside. For whatever reason, the majority read them and contribute, for their own reasons and thus keep the threads going...And that's the way it is.

Miser you look at this shit the wrong way, it's just music, it's not a war, a young man growing up probably listened to all sorts of music, Sid Vicious used to like ABBA for crying out loud, it's just the fans that take this shit all way too seriously, everybody listens to all kinds of music, it's everywhere, John Lydon talks in his youth about The Beatles being played tons around the house, you have such a 'design for life' mentality in your approach to music, it's just songs, entertainment.

John Lydon listened to Hawkwind, stuff like Can thats pretty much Prog Rock, or Kraftwerk and...Reggae and soul and Donna Summer he's professed a liking for as far back as 1979, it's just music man, drop your shoulders, learn to enjoy yourself.

I enjoy everything but I enjoy the "kafabe" aspect of it, the pouting and little piss taking and the little wars between fans of this and that genre, it's kinda interesting to see, and how it starts is fascinating. I tend to think that the mid to late 70s were one of the most interesting times in music history, at least modern day, because you had so much going on; Rock of course and all of it's various subgenres all dominant, Metal beginning to separate into it's own subgenres, Glam hanging around and transforming into what it'd become in the 80s; New Wave rising slowly; Disco coming out of nowhere and outshining everything else for a few years; the earliest rumblings of rap beats thumping in the streets; Soul, R&B and the like further diversifying, and finally Punk emerging amidst all this.

And then it seems like you had, at least music fans in the late 70s, a three way war. The Rock kids hated the Disco kings; The Punks were disliked by both crowds it'd seem and probably didn't have much tolerance for Disco I'd imagine. I'm talking on the fan level, not the bands, but the bands helped stoke this sort of war for dominance with the piss taking and the press and media, being the lovers of drama that they are, pushed this 'war' and the kids ate it up. I mean there were instances of fights just over kids wearing "Disco sucks" pins. And as Zint said, if you were a punk in the mid-late 70s, you had legitimate fear of being treated like a weirdo, an outsider, a freak or even getting bashed. So I just find it all a very fascinating time musically, and the little feuds between the various groups and moreso their fans......

They didn't hate The Stones or Zeppelin, they just found them ridiculous and ridiculed them and that don't really take much understanding does it, everybody does that, it's the general concensus about all them lot, just like when you open the papers and it's like "Wrinkley Rocker Ronnie Wood Has Tryst With Au Pair Girl' or some such bullshit, it's just the way of the world, isn't it? Thats how it began anyway, people in magazines asking John Lydon what he thought of such and such band and he just took the piss out of them and a lot of people agreed and some took that pisstaking to levels of like, hatred and attack etc but generally speaking they just took the piss out of them and considered them foolish and thats no news, thats always been that way.

There's a sly under-current of pisstaking in most write ups involving the Stones and it's been that way for decades.

You'd think though that John Lyndon or Sid Vicious would've listened to a Stones or a Zeppelin record growing up. I mean Exile on Main St (or going back even further to their 60s rock songs) is about as raw and unpolished as one could get in the '70s. And I mean the early Zeppelin records are straight blues rock, basically amplified, soulful sort of blues, with a lot of purity and raw sexual energy. I mean they didn't really start doing fantasy lyrics and stuff till their 4th album or so....

Why did the original Punks in the 70s hate on The Stones, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and other bands? I mean Pink Floyd and ELO and Elton John I can understand their hate for, but The Stones were basically punks before the term was invented, at least musically and were still putting out pretty lewd and out of margins material in the '70s; Led Zeppelin had come and shaken up rock in '69 and had been putting out hard hitting records ever since....I don't get why they went after the two bands who helped redefine what raw rock n' roll was all about....I cna understand them going after ELO and Boston, a lot of that was very safe and parent friendly and pompous....But in the '70s, the Stones weren't yet a family institution and Led Zeppelin was still very much the band of American teenagers....

Our House by Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young

Yes, I know I am overreacting but I fucking dont like James Bond after Daniel Craig violated it.

There's 50 years of Bond before Craig that you can talk about in this thread.

Or just do what we've been doing lately and come in just to say fuck MGM.

Upon repeated watchings (I've been having repeated Bond marathons the last few days), I've come to LOVE Thunderball. I think it takes everything Goldfinger established, and adds elements from Dr. No and From Russia in love. As a result, it has a perfect balance of camp and seriousness. Of a spy thriller and a big action movie.

YOLT is a fun film and it's very glamorous, but somehow it feels a bit too big in scope, it feels too long. Diamonds Are Forever is a great film if you want just something totally brainless and campy and utterly dated. It's so bad that it wraps around back to good, sort of like the Adam West Batman films. It feels awkward, like a transitional film, transitioning from the style of Connery's Bonds to Moore's. It feels like a Roger Moore Bond with Connery playing the part instead.

Miser has finally seen the light

Now if only we can get him addicted to Daniel Craig, or to get the rest of the world to realize Bond doesn't do a goddamn thing noteworthy in Goldfinger.

I agree with your view on Goldfinger. Bond is Goldfinger's prisoner half the film.

If you mapped out the film to somebody they'd think it sounds like the most boring movie ever. Watch Bond play golf. Watch Bond stand on the side of a mountain. Watch Bond in jail. Pure adrenaline.

It's how it's played that makes it all work. It's a pretty perfect film.

And it had the last decent Felix Leiter.

There's nothing worse that can be done to Bond than what Roger Moore already did. And I like Roger Moore. It took them years for them to make a Fleming Bond. First with Dalton and now with Craig. If people don't like it, than go pop in Thunderball.

Roger's films are great. With the exception of Moonraker and A View to a Kill, he's awesome.

Fleming's Bond = sucky. Dalton was a depressing charmless fuck and Craig is a depressing thug.

Yes, I know I am overreacting but I fucking dont like James Bond after Daniel Craig violated it.

James Putin is indeed loathesome. He buttfucked Bond up the ass with psychological drama and Nolan-esque darkness.

Upon repeated watchings (I've been having repeated Bond marathons the last few days), I've come to LOVE Thunderball. I think it takes everything Goldfinger established, and adds elements from Dr. No and From Russia in love. As a result, it has a perfect balance of camp and seriousness. Of a spy thriller and a big action movie.

YOLT is a fun film and it's very glamorous, but somehow it feels a bit too big in scope, it feels too long. Diamonds Are Forever is a great film if you want just something totally brainless and campy and utterly dated. It's so bad that it wraps around back to good, sort of like the Adam West Batman films. It feels awkward, like a transitional film, transitioning from the style of Connery's Bonds to Moore's. It feels like a Roger Moore Bond with Connery playing the part instead.

Does anyone else think Thunderball is the perfect Sean Connery Bond? It's the perfect mix of a spy thriller, camp and seriousness. From Russia with Love is too serious, and Diamonds Are Forever is too campy, but Thunderball is right in the middle. It adheres to the formula, has great locations, beautiful women, cool gadgets, but doesn't go over the top and stays within the margains. I also think Connery is at his best, he seems most into it in this movie.

And they are idiots. Because AIDS wasn't known to the public at the time.

I know.

I wonder, a little off topic, but I wonder when Freddie caught AIDs? He was diagnosed in 1987 but I'm not sure if it was still HIV or if the disease had proceeded to AIDs at that point.

You might like the Hot Space album then, Queen does gay disco.

I just remember hearing it when i was little when it first came out and my sister saying he wrote it whilst he had AIDS (dunno how true that is) and i remember thinking wow, i mean you think songs about death you think doom and gloom and misery and wrenching guitars and yet you got this upbeat dance track, albeit with not exactly upbeat lyrics but...it just sounds like someone putting a brave face on something and trying to...i dunno, it just has this real genuine human quality to it that i've never forgetton. 'got to be some good times ahead' fuckin' hell Fred

People also say Bohemian Rhapsody and Who Wants To Live Forever were written about Freddie having AIDS.

Really? How so with Bohemian Rhapsody?

Bohemian Rhapsody:

"Too late, my time has come

Sends shivers down my spine

Body's aching all the time

Goodbye everybody - I've got to go

Gotta leave you all behind and face the truth

Mama, ooo - (anyway the wind blows)

I don't want to die

I sometimes wish I'd never been born at all"

Nothing to do with AIDS.

I know, it was written years before Freddie likely even contracted it, but people who go by the "Bohemian Rhapsody is about AIDs" theory usually reference that line.

You might like the Hot Space album then, Queen does gay disco.

I just remember hearing it when i was little when it first came out and my sister saying he wrote it whilst he had AIDS (dunno how true that is) and i remember thinking wow, i mean you think songs about death you think doom and gloom and misery and wrenching guitars and yet you got this upbeat dance track, albeit with not exactly upbeat lyrics but...it just sounds like someone putting a brave face on something and trying to...i dunno, it just has this real genuine human quality to it that i've never forgetton. 'got to be some good times ahead' fuckin' hell Fred

People also say Bohemian Rhapsody and Who Wants To Live Forever were written about Freddie having AIDS.

Really? How so with Bohemian Rhapsody?

Bohemian Rhapsody:

"Too late, my time has come

From around '77 to '80 or so, Punk was the newest fad and shook the rock world and took it by storm. These were the new bad boys in Rock, and the raw intensity of Punk startled the press and captured music listeners. Many older rock bands either adapted their sound to include a Punky edge and tried to emulate the new kids, who were in actuality emulating THEM. But it seems just as quickly as it came on the scene, it also faded as quickly from mainstream popularity and by the early '80s seems to have become a niche or underground sort of thing. It's influence was still felt in other genres and in many acts which had a punky edge, but pure Punk became more an underground thing. Why did it fade from the mainstream so relatively quickly?

Two of the hardest, most straight forward albums to come out in 1976, by two titanic hard rock bands, Presence by Led Zeppelin and Rocks by Aerosmith were two of the hardest rocking albums by both bands and among the heaviest that came out that year. Both albums are no frills, no bullshit, pure rock albums, no synthesizers or any of the extra llayers that coloured much of '70s Rock. Both even happen to have a song called "Nobody's Fault" on them.

Which do you think is better? Which do you prefer?

Possibly he likes it. I don't think he wanted CD to sound like Evanescence though. Lol.

Thinking about it has he ever mentioned female artists he likes?

In a '99 interview with Kurt Loder he said he liked the new Fiona Apple record.

I get the feeling sometimes that Evanesence's Fallen is the album Axl wanted CD to be, in concept: Stringed, beautiful sort of haunting sad rock songs. But he was beaten to the punch by Amy. I just get the feeling that this sort of record is what he was envisioning when he wrote This I Love in 1992, and the other guys said fuck that, and he got beaten to the punch by Evanescence.

I can totally picture Axl being into the song "My Immortal". It's like a twin to TiL and Prostitute, musically.

In all honesty, hearing live Stones with Taylor, it kind of sounds like they're playing the songs with another guy just noodling over top of the songs for no reason.

With Ronnie they sound much more of a band.

I hear Rory Gallagher was in the running for Taylor's spot when he left, that would've been interesting to hear. Although it would've been short lived, probably.

Peter Frampton was also in the running, but I can't see him in the role.

Out of all the post 2001 shows, which ones would you say were where Axl's voice sounded the closest to the UYI era?

On Bollocks, every song sounds the fucking same, like each song is just a variation of the other...It gets boring. .

Explain to me how each song on NMTB is a variation of the other. And also, explain to me what about the production of the album is poor, in your estimation.

They just sound like variations of the same fucking song, nothing really sticks out except for God Save the Queen. The production sucks in that I hate the guitar sound, it sounds almost fucking tinny or....just i dont even know how to put it, the guitars just sound like shit.

never liked it, regardless of who plays what, don't care. having a band with axl and slash and calling slash a diva is really stupid btw.

Did I say Axl wasn't? Slash being a diva directly pertains to why so many people dislike this song. That's all.

Not really sure if that's true, though. The song was met with a pretty lukewarm/hostile reaction even when it came out.

Personally, I like it a lot. I always have. But I feel like only die-hard fans even really care about what Slash had to say about the song. I think for the general public it came out at a time when GN'R was fizzling on its way out during the rise of grunge/alt rock, and it just never really connected with people, so it doesn't even have much of a nostalgia factor outside the fanbase.

It hit #55 on the Billboard Hot 100 in early 1995, not bad for a cover song with no video or much promotion released by a band that had been on hiatus for two years. It couldn't have been that ill received.

Both are terrible bands, some of the worst music ever.

Are you talking about (Syd Barrett era) Pink Floyd and Nirvana, Uniball?

Seriously. Put in headphones and listen to this...This song is magic, it has something truly powerful and grabbing about it....It's amazing and enchanting. Listen.

What do you feel about the last single released by the Classic Era GN'R? Released in December 1994, it's the last song to have Axl, Slash, Duff, Matt and Dizzy all on the same track....Do you think it's a good cover, beyond the drama surrounding how it was recorded?