Vincent Vega

I don't know. I was just speculating

Lol. I love your threads, keep them up You're quickly becoming a name around this forum and I mean that in a good way.

Nice thinly veiled cupcake thread, Miser

I thought the little dig in there at myself was funny and a nice bit of self deprecating humor.

If you believe so, explain why you feel it is.

Maybe because Mike Clink had already managed to create a viable drum track and re-recording with Matt would've been more expensive and maybe they didn't wanna go over budget?

Since when has "going over budget" ever stopped Axl?

After they let me go from GN'R, Andy was living up the street from me. We started writing together. He would come down and I would say, 'Do not bring that goofy wife of yours!' I'd be in the front yard and I'd see him up the hill and I'd flip him off because he was bringing her. One afternoon we were playing and I had a locked gate. The wife and Erin Everly come over. Axl and Erin had got in a fight. That's what really did it. This girl gave her valium and some other stuff and kept telling me to give her heroin.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=18521.0

I honestly don't believe Steven's timeline.

Miser, I think it played a factor definitely, but at the same time Axl 'protected' Steven from Erin's family.

For lack of other evidence I am going have to believe Adler and place the incident after his sacking. The whole point about, jamming with McCoy, was because Adler was in effect, 'bandless.' I do not see any reason why Adler would change the date. Also, I couldn't imagine Axl and Adler working together on 'Civil War' and playing Farm Aid, Axl believing his band mate had shot up his fiance with drugs and possibly, sexually molested her!

Steven was fired twice--the first time around February/March 1990. The band tried replacing him with Adam Maples and other drummers, then Steven turned around and seemed to clean up and the band had him sign a contract wherein he'd be fined each time he was seen to be high, and fired if he was seen to be high three times. This was in late March. I would think it's possible then that Adler was working with McCoy around the time he was fired for the first time--so it could be that Erin O'Ded around February/March 1990. Before Steven was permanently fired in July.

Maybe it was a time issue? Those albums took forever to do anyway,

The albums themselves didn't seem to take that long to do, once the band actually started work on it. From everything I've read, serious recording didn't start until after Matt joined (Summer of 1990). 1989 was a year wherein songs were written and demoed but not fully worked on--No real work was done in making the album.

Izzy recorded his basic tracks and parts relatively quickly in the beginning of the recording sessions, then disappeared totally. The rest of the songs tracks seem to have been recorded between the Fall of 1990 and the Spring of 1991, not long before the UYI tour. It was the overdubs and vocals which really took the longest.

Most of the vocals were probably recorded in 1991, as we have instrumental versions of some UYI songs from late September 1990. The last song recorded I think was Get in the Ring and that was just the vocal track and the crowd overdub, taken from a show on the tour in June 1991.

Axl announced 'the record is done' at a concert in July 1991, then it went into mixing and mastering. This part seems to have taken a bit of time, considering the Bob Clearmountain issue and finding the right engineer/mixer and Slash having to do guitar overdubs for Izzy, who was MIA and had only participated in basic track recordings.

I know it was supposed to come out in the summer of '90, then the fall of '90, Christmas '90, then it was supposed to come out in May '91 (I remember reading it's release was supposed to coincide with the start of the tour), then July '91 (Axl said the album was coming out in July at an early UYI show), then August....But of those missed dates only the '91 dates would've been viable anyway because the recordings didn't seriously begin until mid-late '90.

After they let me go from GN'R, Andy was living up the street from me. We started writing together. He would come down and I would say, 'Do not bring that goofy wife of yours!' I'd be in the front yard and I'd see him up the hill and I'd flip him off because he was bringing her. One afternoon we were playing and I had a locked gate. The wife and Erin Everly come over. Axl and Erin had got in a fight. That's what really did it. This girl gave her valium and some other stuff and kept telling me to give her heroin.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=18521.0

I honestly don't believe Steven's timeline.

Miser, I think it played a factor definitely, but at the same time Axl 'protected' Steven from Erin's family.

See, I really can't trust that--Axl protecting him. I mean I'm sure he protected him from being murdered yes or getting the shit kicked out of him yes. But Axl was a guy who'd kick Steven in the balls just for kicks and according to pretty much everybody, he had very little tolerance for Steven from the beginning.

I really, really can't picture Axl tolerating his presence in the band after that happened. Even if Axl wasn't an asshole, just think of how awkward it would be anyway within any other band. Now take that awkwardness and add in Axl's already existing dislike for Steven AND his famous ability to store up hate and hold on to a grudge.

The others were exasperated and pretty much done with Steven already as it was from dealing with him daily, and I think Axl might've used their feelings of frustration to fully push Steven out the door after what happened with Erin. Like, after that, used their anger at him and rallied them behind the idea of fucking firing him. Whereas before, it seems he was content to let the others deal with him and to wait it out, see if he'd clean up.

I think it was a bigger factor than most think. Probably one of the most immediate factors that pushed Axl from defending him in the band, if he had been. Or pushed Axl into agreeing that he had to go.

After they let me go from GN'R, Andy was living up the street from me. We started writing together. He would come down and I would say, 'Do not bring that goofy wife of yours!' I'd be in the front yard and I'd see him up the hill and I'd flip him off because he was bringing her. One afternoon we were playing and I had a locked gate. The wife and Erin Everly come over. Axl and Erin had got in a fight. That's what really did it. This girl gave her valium and some other stuff and kept telling me to give her heroin.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?action=printpage;topic=18521.0

You can't really trust Adler's memory here. He was smacked and cracked out of his mind for most of the '90s and probably doing other drugs too. Out of all the band members I would say he makes for the most unreliable narrator of all of them. If you ever read Erin's story she gave in '94, about Axl's abuse, she mentions how she never saw Axl again outside of court after they broke up, and she moved and changed her phone number to get away from him. Axl in his account said he was at Erin's bedside in the hospital and had to stop her family from hurting Steven or worse. I doubt he would've even been allowed near her bedside after they broke up, especially considering how afraid of him she was.

Axl and Erin were wed in April 1990. April 28th 1990 I believe. Axl filed for divorce a month later, in May '90. Then they got back together only to break up for good in November. Steven was fired in July 1990. If I had to guess when this happened, it probably happened sometime between their wedding and Steven's firing--sometime between April and July 1990. Probably in the period where they were fighting, that first month of marriage, when Axl wanted a divorce.

Miser is right. Steven hadn't been fired at the time of Erin's overdose.

It does make one wonder--how long BEFORE Adler's departure was Erin's overdose?

I mean as I said, there were plenty of factors in Steven's firing, and from all accounts, Axl was actually the most patient with him out of the band because he didn't have to deal with Steven on a daily basis like the other guys did--but one has to wonder if Erin overdosing was the straw that broke the camel's back and directly led to his firing, or was the factor that made Axl wash his hands of him as well?

I mean I imagine it would have been VERY awkward to say the least, him being in the band after he almost (unwittingly) killed Axl's wife. We know how unforgiving Axl is, and I really doubt he was all sweetness and understanding, and I can't see him not holding a grudge at the time. And from all accounts, Axl and Steven never really got along to begin with.

While a lot of things worked to contrive Steven's departure from the band, I can't help but wonder if Erin's overdose hastened his being fired?

It'd just be interesting if it could ever be determined how close the events were in terms of chronology.

Civil War was recorded around April 1990 (It features Dizzy, who joined the band in Feb. 1990 and was debuted live at Farm Aid in April '90). The song's recording went well apparently, except for the drum parts. Due to his drug use, there wasn't a single usable drum track to go with the song, so Mike Clink had to splice the best from 70 takes of the song to create a viable drum track. CW was then released as GN'R's first single of the '90s around June 1990. Steven was fired just a month later on July 11th 1990, and Matt was hired to replace him within a few weeks of his firing.

Why didn't the band re-record Civil War with Matt on drums for UYI II? They were essentially releasing a song that was already released over a year before as a single on their new album with a drummer on the track who wasn't in the band anymore.

I mean consider that for TSI, on the songs Izzy had recorded with the band during the UYI sessions, they erased Izzy's guitar parts and had Gilby play his own. Why didn't they do the same with Adler for Civil War--erase his drum track for the album version and have Matt record a new one?

You misunderstand me. Allow me to explain clearly...

Angela McCoy's version of events (the version Axl believed)...

Angela and Andy arrive at Adler's house. Upon entering (presumably the door was open) they find a speedballing Erin, comatosed and blue in the face, on the floor. Steven is also present in the house.

Adler's version...

Adler is in his house alone. McCoy's wife Angela knocks at the door dragging along an already intoxicated (via Valium) Erin.

To accept the first version as true, we have to ponder on what Erin Everely was doing with the ex-drummer (i.e. now Axl's enemy) of Guns N' Roses alone? In my opinion, the lack of clarity here slightly supports Adler's version of events. It is a hole in the story, or certainly something to query.

I think the Erin overdose happened before Steven was sacked, though. So he wasn't yet "Axl's enemy."

Steven was fired in July '90. Axl and Erin broke up in November '90. I mean, I suppose it's possible...But from everything I'd read, it happened before he was fired, and it was probably one of many factors that led to his firing (the other factors being Izzy, Slash and Duff had washed their hands of him, his refusal to abstain from drugs after he'd been given the contract, the inability to play the UYI material properly and his refusal to do it the way the band wanted, the 90 takes of Civil War, etc). Axl wouldn't have been at the hospital with Erin by her bedside if it was after they broke up, given that she was afraid of him to the point that she moved and changed her phone number to keep under his radar.

I think the fact that it hasn't aged well is some of it's charm. It's a product of it's time and shows it. There'a certain charm to that. And like Glow said, Mulder and Scully are great characters regardless.

Anyone else love The X-Files?

I doubt Duff would go back with Axl without Slash.

It's possible, after all, he remained in the band for 10 months after Slash left. He didn't leave out of team loyalty so much as that he was tired of Axl, the fact that the new album wasn't done, and that the band wasn't touring.

You know, all Axl said was that he or Slash would die before a reunion. Thus it doesn't rule out a Weekend At Bernie's style reunion, with one of the roadies or Lebeis kids holding up Axl or Slash's corpse during the concerts.

Bump?

Let's narrow "Our time" down to 1990-present.

1992: Pretty Tied Up (Mainstream rock chart #35)

1992: November Rain (Billboard Hot 100 #3; Mainstream Rock chart #19)

1993: Hair of the Dog (Mainstream Rock chart #19)

1993: Estranged (Mainstream Rock chart #24)

1993: Ain't It Fun (Mainstream Rock chart #8)

1994: Sympathy for the Devil (Billboard Hot 100 #62; Mainstream Rock #10)

1994: Since I Don't Have You (Billboard Hot 100 #69)

1994: Hair of the Dog (Mainstream rock chart #11)

1994: Estranged (Mainstream rock chart #16)

1995: Sympathy for the Devil (Billboard Hot 100 #55; Mainstream Rock chart #36)

1999: Oh My God (Mainstream rock chart #26)

2008: WTTJ (Hot Digital Songs chart #74)

2008: Chinese Democracy (Billboard Hot 100 #34; Hot Modern Rock chart #24; Hot Mainstream Rock Tracks #5; Hot Digital Songs Chart #20)

2008: Better (Hot Modern Rock Tracks #18)

Sympathy for the Devil hit #55 on the Billboard Hot 100 a few months after it was released, and it did pretty well on the rock singles chart as well at the time. It wasn't a flop. It charted higher than some of GN'R's own original singles and even some of Nirvana's singles.

I mean the guy can play in every genre, he makes amazing albums like Abnormal, he's an awesome singer with lots of range, he can sing in whistle register (99% of males can't), he's an awesome songwriter and he even makes great hot sauces as if he wasn't awesome enough already.

Is Bumblefoot the greatest guitarist alive, or of our time?

Dizzy would have been credited with that. I mean the thing lasts about 1/3 of the song!

Not necessarily. Was Slash given any official credit for the guitar melodies on NR or Estranged? Nope, but those pretty much make the songs what they are. Axl said part of the reason Dizzy was hired was he put "heavy metal piano" on songs they hadn't even CONSIDERED putting piano on.

Also, in 1995, Slash said point blank in an interview that he "didn't give a fuck" about who owns the name.

I would say PC sounds more like a Slash song. Slash/Stradlin. But that's the thing with Slash he can play on another persons song and make it sound like his. Izzy may not have been in the studio when they recorded it.

'Alright, this is a new one, by Mr Izzy Stradlin, this one is called ''Perfect Fucking Crime'''.

- Axl, (October 31st 1986, Ackerman Ballroom)

Izzy is credited with rhythm guitar on 'Perfect Crime'.

Back Off Bitch sounds very Slash led song.

Well Slash did contribute a new guitar part to 'Back Off Bitch' when he was in New Hollywood Rose. This is from when Axl was in LA Guns:

'Slash and Axl weren't talking at the time. In fact, I remember Axl calling Slash around this time and asking him to teach Tracii the new guitar parts to ''Back Off Bitch'', which Slash had written.'' (Marc Canter, Reckless Road, p.55).

But whatever it was Slash wrote, it didn't give him a credit when 'Back Off Bitch' was finally released on Use Your Illusion 1. If I had to guess, it may have been the opening lead guitar lines.

The thing is, Stradlin and Rose were 'complete' songwriters whereas Slash was a 'collaborator': Stradlin and Rose could write music (more so Izzy) and lyrics and come in with complete songs (Think About You is the earliest example of this practice which later became more a policy on Illusion). Slash merely wrote musicical parts so Slash had to rely on Stradlin or, more so, Rose to write the lyrics. Examples of this are 'Coma' and 'Locomotive.' McKagan was also a complete songwriter (So Fine) but nowhere near as prolific as Stradlin or Rose for whatever reason.

But of course Stradlin and Rose collaborated as well. Here I feel Guns N' Roses's writing partnerships changed slightly as time passed by. Earlier on Stradlin/Rose was a formidable songwriting team (Don't Cry, You Could Be Mine). Later, when the band were actually writing songs for album #2 (1989/90), Slash/Rose was dominant as Stradlin bowed out. It is a bit of a generalisation but it is broadly true if you look at the chronological time of when the songs were written.

About Axl's music. His guitar skills were - are - limited so his guitar based stuff is all simple and on the low E string and consists of fairly basic power chords (One in a Million, Dead Horse). His main musical instrument was the piano (Estranged, NR, Breakdown, the outro of Locomotive).

Just two things:

Slash in an interview says Izzy played the guitar intro on Back Off Bitch.;

Dizzy plays (and thus probably wrote) the piano outro on Locomotive.

In the 80s and 90s and 2002, a fixture of GN'R's stage show was at least one rant about something from Axl, either a short little thing or a full on diatribe. I miss those. Do you think he'll ever rant again on stage?

A question: What are the general opinions here on You Only Live Twice?

I think it's a very grand, glamorous sort of Bond film. But at the same time, it feels a bit too big in scope, it feels too long, the plot feels a bit convoluted. It's a great film, but it just feels like...very big in scope compared to the more concise, taut plots of the first four films.

It's still got one of my favorite fights in the whole series.

You know, AVTAK was a pretty shitty movie regardless, but the fact that Roger Moore looked more like a man primed for retirement and less like "James Bond" made it quite comical

What made him look worse was the horribly obvious plastic surgery and facelift. Look at his eyes in the movie, they look dead. That's cause (or so I read) he had an eye job done too to remove wrinkles from under the eyes. He looked much much worse at 57 than Harrison Ford did at 65 in the latest Indiana Jons movie.