Lines&Noses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g30G_XPPVY0....From last night I guess

cool vid thanks for posting

he handled it nicely!!! pretty sure medias wont talk about it.

Props to Axk handles with humour and humility.

Voice sounding a lot better too :-)

Ashba aint no spring chicken - the guy is what, 40?

And he's done nothing musically that comes even close to old-GNR standard.

You never know, he'd really need Axl inspire him and take hime to another musican dimension. But Axl ain't the most productive guy these days

LA

DJ is 38 years old and I think he'll surprise a lot of people if he ever gets to be on a released Guns album.

This reminds me of Randy Rhodes and how his work on anything before Blizzard Of Ozz was not anywhere near as good. Some people just have that effect like Ozzy had on Randy and Randy on Ozzy. Axl and DJ seem to share a similar musical connection.

I guess time will (maybe) tell.

I think he can do it. Axl is good at pushing people to their creative limits and is very inspiring, I would imagine. DJ also is hungry to put his mark on Guns and is very driven and experienced.

Chemistry between 2 musicians can change everything. It can become something much bigger then any one of them could ever hope to create on their own.

I will take time for DJ Axl and the rest of the band to develop their chemistry and their sound I doubt if anyone can know if it'll work at this stage? + judging by the other members comments they have not been recording with DJ or Axl?

I think it was a little silly to say they are going to record the best guns album ever? Talk about setting youself up for a fall? He's pretty much just said he intends to write the best rock n roll album ever. A bold prediction no doubt about it.

Why not just get on with writing/recording and realeasing and then let the music do the talking?

My top 3.

1) GNR

2) Nine Inch Nails

3) The Doors

the original line up defintely.

Then

Korn

Smashing Pumpkins (Siamese Dream line up)

Nirvana

Nine Inch Nails are great. Have they really stopped ?

Someone once lent me a Smashing Pumpkins tape. They did nothing for me. Although there was just track I really liked:

Eye:

Eye - Live:

Hey Star,

Eye is a great track one of my favs!

Imo the best Pumpkins albums are siamese dream, Mellon collie and the infinite sadness and Adore.

Given you like eye you might prefer Adore it was more "synth" than their earlier stuff.

The albums are very different though could almost be different bands (indeed the line up did change for Adore).

Siamese dream was a great reock reocrd and it prolly considered their "best album".

Check out Rocket, disarm and Today

Mellon Collie is a concept album and imo you really have to listen ot it in its entireity to really appreciate it.

It swings from quasi thrash riffs to almost childlike nursery rhymes but when heard as a whole it all seems to make sense.

Try

Adore was written around the time Billy's mother died and to be honest it sounds like a record that was written by someone who just lost their mother. But it has a melancholic beauty that keeps me coming back to it time and time again. Where these songs really come alive though was when they were performed live: check out.

Not sure about NIN I hope it is not the last we hear of them, personally I doubt that it will be.

My top 3.

1) GNR

2) Nine Inch Nails

3) The Doors

the original line up defintely.

Then

Korn

Smashing Pumpkins (Siamese Dream line up)

Nirvana

I really wish I could "not care" about what happened but it hurt me more than I can explain.

I hate the fact we'll all get old, but I think we can fight it on a day to day basis.

I don't want Axl to get beaten by its age or by the world. In this aspect, this Rio concert really saddened me because I felt Axl was getting beaten and I can't accept that. Axl is a legend to me.

To some of the reactions on this topic, some of you said "it doesn't matter, it's just ONE GIG". I think you're very wrong if you think that. It wasn't "ONE" gig, it was "THE" gig. Months to rest and prepare it. There's no excuse.

If you're gonna put your foot on the biggest rock stage of the world, you got to deserve it and be prepared. I still worship the Axl that used his passion to good service in the 80's, 90's, and to some extents the 00's where I think we got incredible moments, tainted by sadness, trials and other shit. But I don't accept the man who played Rio 2011 as Axl Rose. It wasn't Axl, it was his shadow. I still believe he can reborn from his ashes but it'll take hard work and sacrifices.

As fans of the man, we have to be hard sometimes. I'm sorry but if we're all saying "it was a good show, doesn't matter if he was a bit off", then things will never change. It's also a lack of respect to the beasts that are the members of this line-up. I stay on my position. This Rio show was a complete disaster and it pained me even more watching videos in HD again today. It's just not acceptable for the biggest stage of the world and for the months of preparation Axl had at disposal and the legend that he is.

I'm sure he's sad and probably suffering about it, but I also believe he has something inside that is stronger than all this negativity, I just hope he uses it to step up again some day on the biggest stage of the world, and succeed this time. I'm not writing all of this because I'm happy to bash, it pains me to be negative and bash Axl because I'm a huge huge fan and I respect him like no one else. You got to be hard with the people you love sometimes, otherwise things don't improve.

great post

He's just ripping people off

I am surprised more people aren't upset about that aspect.

By "playing his way" into shape so to speak, he is all but announcing that this first batch of shows are full priced practice sessions because he clearly spent zero time preparing on his own before hand.

Oh for Christ sake. Seriously, quit whining about that. Bands always get tighter, singers always get in better shape as the tour progresses. No amount of vocal exercises can mimic the rigors of a live show and touring schedule.

Ali

You're as reliable as the sun, Ali. You will always put a positive spin on everything GN'R, even when it's one of the lowest points in their history. Axl sounded better, and was in better shape, to start the 2006 and 2009 tours. So sure bands get better and tighter, but there's no reason you can't come out at a high level. Oh, and the band itself was tight as hell last night. They won't improve much, because there isn't much room for improvement.

I sincerely hope that Axl simply wasn't prepared. Of course, it wouldn't be the first time. The whole post '97 era has been a picture of underachievement because they did not put in the work they needed to. At the end of the day this is what it comes down to. If you want to be at the top of your game, if you want to put out an album with proper artwork and promotion, you roll up your sleeves and ensure things get done. Thousands of artists do it every year. You can't blame legal woes and Irving Azoff and whatever other excuse you wanna reach for. GN'R has dropped the ball too many times to ignore the one constant that matters over the past fifteen years...and going back even further than that.

Hopefully there aren't more serious issues that Axl is dealing with. Hopefully he's healthy and pissed off about last night and hopefully this creates some much needed urgency.

It saddens me deeply that Axl is choosing to age more like Vince Neil than Steven Tyler. At his age you can't keep your body if you don't work at it. Thing is, you can keep it if you work at it. Axl seems to have made his choice though, so not much we can do about it.

Why does this saddens you? I am sure you can find videos and pics of Axl in his 20s to masturbate to.

He could look like Pavarotti for all I care, as long as he can sing. I'd rather he spent his time rehearsing with the band and singing with his coach than running on the threadmill and lifting weights.

As long as he can sing? Isn't it obvious that if you are going to move as much as Axl does you need to be in good physical condition in order to sing well?

Maybe I'm not as dramatic as you? The cancellation of the rest of the 2002 tour was far more dire than this. This was a bad show, not anywhere near the first in GN'R history. Why not waiting to see how the subsequent shows go before waiving the white flag?

Ali

I can forgive almost everything else: being overweight, forgetting lyrics etc, as has been said anyone can have a bad day at the office, but it just seemed like Axl wan't even trying? It also seems he was underprepared.

Having a bad day when you have done the best you can preparation wise and are giving it 100% on the night is forigvable but that half assed performance?

If this had happned on the impending US tour they'd say it was a protest beause he was only touring to satisfy his legal obligations to Azoff.

But as far as I know this was not part of that deal and Axl has said before how much he likes the whole Rock in Rio festival. So if he couldn't raise it for this one day you really gotta wonder about the guys motivation.

No wonder Chi Dem took about 15 years and still sounded half finished when it came out.

Also its interesting that someone mentioned Pearl Jam's war with ticket master back in 1992.

Back then there was no internet so bands could not easily sell tickets direct to fans? But what stopping them from doing it now?

Everything.

Ticketmaster is tied in with Live Nation. Live Nation has deals in place with every major venue out there. So unless GN'R want to play a corn field somewhere, they and every other major act has to play Ticketmaster's game. It's the same exact issue Pearl Jam ran into way back when. Except Pearl Jam was trying to fight the idea in it's infancy and everyone laughed at them. Now we're all stuck with the system the way it is.

My point is that Ticketmaster fees are evil and all, but I still don't understand tremendous price differences from city to city. I bought Floor seats for Chicago for $94 each included Ticketmaster fees. I'm seeing the same tour two weeks later in Detroit and in the same tickets are $125 even before Ticketmaster intervenes. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

OK explains a few things, but if the venues can sell the tickets more cheaply directly why not the band?

+ if U2 can put on their massive show for $60 you gotta wonder where the extra money is going?

Also its interesting that someone mentioned Pearl Jam's war with ticket master back in 1992.

Back then there was no internet so bands could not easily sell tickets direct to fans? But what stopping them from doing it now?

I remember having the same thoughts last year when they came back to the UK. At first I thought it was because Sterling is weaker against the dollar than it was last time they toured.

Its currently circa 1.6 was nearer 2 to 1 last time, but perhps not.

It's always a dilema you think (correctly imo) that you are getting screwed on the ticket prices, but you don't want to miss your favourite band.

Well I found that on ebay I was able to get tickets last minute (only a few and only last minute) for about half the price I would have paid ( I bought two and sold one so I think net I ended up paying circa £25 for standing ticket for the show approx $40). The fact that it was the show with Duff just made it all the more sweet.

I think it was the veunue/promoter selling the tickets too because the same seller ID was back on selling more tickets at a similar price later.

You can do the same thing by just showing up at the venue and playing chicken with the touts (this works especially well is venue if half empty) at the end of the day when the lights go out the tickets in their hand will be worthless.

No it isn't.

depends on what it is, it could be.

Nope. When you quit a company everything becomes none of your business right?

I believe he signed over the name but he still owns his rights to the music?

I eagerly awaited Chinese Democracy, and am glad I finally got to hear it. I wasn't disappointed, but wasn't blown out of the water either.

It's not Appetite, nor does it pretend to be. Like has been said time and time again throughout this thread - that record was a perfect storm of the right people, at the right station of their lives, and came at the perfect time in contemporary culture. The result was iconic. Whether you choose to acknowledge that fact or not, it's the reason we are all in this forum today.

The love for AFD is so passionate, even after all this time. I think that's why many people are indifferent towards Chinese. It doesn't sound like Appetite, because Axl didn't even try to. Why would he? It's a completely different band, he's twice the age he was then, it's a different time. I have no problem with the album at all. It's so complex and layered that it's very interesting to listen to again and again. Axl sounds as good as ever.

Still, I have this ridiculous, child-like hope that Guns N' Roses could repeat the magic - and turn out a mind blowing, anthemic rock album that stops you dead in your tracks the first time you hear it. I feel that Axl is such a talented individual that if anyone could ever propel a band to those type of heights again, it is him. I think he could bring back rock and roll. It's an insane thought, really. But I think that's what keeps me so interested in GNR. The fact that I think they COULD.

I don't know if a reunited original lineup would be necessary to do it, but I suspect it would. I think the public would be more accepting of the idea, and there is certainly a demand for that. You put those ingredients together again and it's hard to imagine they wouldn't come up with something incredible.

Nice post Duro.

What frustrates me too is that I think the old chemistry is still there.

I just wish they could patch up their differences. Of course it would not be exactly the same there would be evolution but I still think it would be an incredible album.

You listen to ghost and its clear the old magic is still there between Slash and Izzy and even contraband with Axl's vocals would have been amazing and that's before you consider what he could have added lyrically.

Axl could still do the Chi Dem material as well. Indeed there would be no reason for the haters to hate if he was still recording/touring with the original line up would prolly take a massive monkey off his back.

No way DJ is going to record over Bucket's tracks. Ron maybe.

I really feel anyone re-recording another players parts is unfair both to the music and both players?

Fair enough if Axl wants to write new material with the new band.

But if Chi Dem is an interlocking opus split over 3 parts, I really don't see how a different set of musicians can recapture that vibe 10 years down the line?

Tough to tell what a guaranteed hit will be.

I would have bet money that Better and Street of Dreams would have been hits. And that Catcher, TIL and Prostitute would have had a strong posibility to be hits. IMO, CD is just as good as either Illusions.

Better has ALL the ingredients to be a Rock hit today.

Keep in mind AFD did not start REALLY selling until over a year after it was released when the SCOM video hit and the single was promoted. Without promotion, it really doesn't matter how good it is, it won't catch on with the public until they're basically told they're supposed to like it. It's all subjective until then. There's a lot of amazing music out there that will never be discovered due to lack of promotion.

So, in a nutshell, if Axl puts out new music, he should probably get behind it this time.

Somewhat agree,WTTJ didn't jive with the public at first and MTV wouldn't play it.Took a call from DG to get it played at an unpopular hour,but it caught on. SCOM broke the floodgates loose.

And the general public does consume what they are fed,sad but true.

It was a different situation though with WTTJ GnR were a new band trying to make their mark, I'm sure video was critical to their success not least because it get them noticed.

I still don't really understand why Axl didn't try harder to promote Chi Dem I am sure it did hurt the sales of the album because he chose not to do it.

I mean he goes on about being the last man standing and carrying on the GnR banner, well as its only him left (that the general public would immediately recognise) surely that includes doing publicity?

That said though, I'm not sure there is a cross over hit on there? Better I think would have the best mainstream chance but Rock just isn't that popular right now.

Becauae it's not at all usual to bands to take yeaars to release new albums is it?

Wait..

Metallica: 5 year gap between last albums

AC/DC: 8 years

Iron Maiden: 4 years

OK but those bands were writing those albums from scratch? CD II and II were meant to be in the can?

Just a thought but if there really is no CD II ready to roll does this suggest Axl's original plan to drop CDII and CDIII 2 years apart after Chi Dem had been scrapped completely? (and yes I realise we are already overdue for CD II)

Does ths mean Axl has moved on from the CD era material? I mean trying to re-record the Chi-Dem material from scratch with a new line up would be unlikely to work?

If it was just for the new members to add embelishments to the existing material Tommy not be required in the studio at all? His parts should already be written?

Sounds like they are starting from scratch?

Either that or Axl is leading the current members to think that way. No one knows how good the chemistry will be between the current line up till they start writing together.

Without knowing this I can hardly see Axl scrapping Chi Dem II and III?

He he there is no shame in liking a song, ITW is strong lyrically but I just can't get into it overall.

it's more that the actual styles being thrown together on CD hasn't been done as often. appreciate the innovation. but also feel like the songs are a bit experimental, creative.

that would be my argument for AFD too, like those influence hadn't been put together before either. I think the contrast between CD influence more stark. that's how I weighed it up.

Also I feel with CD you get the Nov Rain epics which AFD doesn't have. whereas CD does have a Jungle, it's like a GH when break it done. it's just not pure classic rock style.

AFD will more popular and be played on radio way more. I could go along with that really on a different day. I think CD just hits me with the creativity and complexity and freshness. they took on all these influences and it still sounds like GNR.

Was listening to If The World today and it's just like how can anyone not like it, I must be crazy lol

OK I think I understand your viewpoint better.

CD is more eclectic drawing on many styles, whereas AFD is pretty much just strighforward blues rock from start to finish right?

There is no question that CD is more eclectic, but AFD has many influences too but drawn primarily from the same blues rock background: aerosmith, Hanoi rocks etc. However Axl et al took those influences and melded them into their own sound which to my ears was better than anything that went before (and frankly since). It was amazing that the band could do this for even one genre.

In general CD imo was not better than the material that influenced it.

There is no harm is trying new things and experimenting, I just feel that this experiment was less successful than AFD.

I'm trying to look beyond my own tastes.

CD is less derivative bcos the combo classic rock meets nu metal is more original.

Lyrics are more interesting less immature.

You could say AFD isn't as creative but it's really well executed. CD is more interesting idea that didn't come off that well. It's just not my opinion.

AFD is the classic, CD is the masterpiece.

in my opinion...AFD is the definitive GNR masterpiece, CD is the evolution and upgrade.

I feel like AFD is too derivative to be a masterpiece. the lyrics are a bit immature, not much originality going on. it's still a classic which might be better than being a masterpiece lol

even if you breakdown CD to classic rock meets nu metal. that hasn't been done before. you can argue it wasn't done well but I think it was. so I rate over AFD.

obviously GNR will always be remembered for those early songs, but CD might like the Exile on the Main Street type album. not well received but in end gained status.

Agreed AFD was derivative but so is Chi Dem?

Street of Dreans=70 Elton John

Madagascar=Korn

This I love= Queen

Are there are loads of other influences too, nothing wrong with this. Indeed its hard to think of any one record that was truely original? Everything is a reaction/evolution of that has gone before.

My own measure if how the music moves me and resonates with me of course this is competley personal but for me AFD was the better record by some way.

No worries,a few of us are infected with the same kind of crazy,impressive post!

thats because Libertad sucked

I never really liked Libertad couple of good sogs and a lot of average ones.

If anything I hope Libertad = CD and Contraband = CDII!

OK I think I understand your viewpoint better.

CD is more eclectic drawing on many styles, whereas AFD is pretty much just strighforward blues rock from start to finish right?

There is no question that CD is more eclectic, but AFD has many influences too but drawn primarily from the same blues rock background: aerosmith, Hanoi rocks etc. However Axl et al took those influences and melded them into their own sound which to my ears was better than anything that went before (and frankly since). It was amazing that the band could do this for even one genre.

In general CD imo was not better than the material that influenced it.

There is no harm is trying new things and experimenting, I just feel that this experiment was less successful than AFD.

I'm trying to look beyond my own tastes.

CD is less derivative bcos the combo classic rock meets nu metal is more original.

Lyrics are more interesting less immature.

You could say AFD isn't as creative but it's really well executed. CD is more interesting idea that didn't come off that well. It's just not my opinion.

AFD is the classic, CD is the masterpiece.

in my opinion...AFD is the definitive GNR masterpiece, CD is the evolution and upgrade.

I feel like AFD is too derivative to be a masterpiece. the lyrics are a bit immature, not much originality going on. it's still a classic which might be better than being a masterpiece lol

even if you breakdown CD to classic rock meets nu metal. that hasn't been done before. you can argue it wasn't done well but I think it was. so I rate over AFD.

obviously GNR will always be remembered for those early songs, but CD might like the Exile on the Main Street type album. not well received but in end gained status.

Agreed AFD was derivative but so is Chi Dem?

Street of Dreans=70 Elton John

Madagascar=Korn

This I love= Queen

Are there are loads of other influences too, nothing wrong with this. Indeed its hard to think of any one record that was truely original? Everything is a reaction/evolution of that has gone before.

My own measure if how the music moves me and resonates with me of course this is competley personal but for me AFD was the better record by some way.

AFD is the classic, CD is the masterpiece.

in my opinion...AFD is the definitive GNR masterpiece, CD is the evolution and upgrade.

I feel like AFD is too derivative to be a masterpiece. the lyrics are a bit immature, not much originality going on. it's still a classic which might be better than being a masterpiece lol

even if you breakdown CD to classic rock meets nu metal. that hasn't been done before. you can argue it wasn't done well but I think it was. so I rate over AFD.

obviously GNR will always be remembered for those early songs, but CD might like the Exile on the Main Street type album. not well received but in end gained status.

Agreed AFD was derivative but so is Chi Dem?

Street of Dreans=70 Elton John

Madagascar=Korn

This I love= Queen

Are there are loads of other influences too, nothing wrong with this. Indeed its hard to think of any one record that was truely original? Everything is a reaction/evolution of that has gone before.

My own measure if how the music moves me and resonates with me of course this is competley personal but for me AFD was the better record by some way.

With CD, Axl has fulfilled his promise to outdo AFD.

This is the conclusion I have come to.

Clearly, CD and AFD are different beasts created in different eras.

But musically, CD is much better than AFD. From a musician point of view, CD blows AFD away. Anybody could cover the songs on AFD with ease. CD is not so easy to cover.

The lyrics on CD are also much more matured than on AFD. Obviously, a more grown up, wiser, and mature Axl will give your more mature lyrics.

Of course CD is not going to outsell AFD. But that's because of timing and a different era. When AFD was released, it was simply the right album for the generation of young people at the time.

CD lyrically is not going to speak to the mass population of young people today, simply because Axl is from a different era.

More fans may be able to sing along to the songs on AFD than on CD. But musically, musicians will find CD to be much more influential.

For these reasons, I truly honestly believe that CD is much better than AFD.

What do you think and why?

Can you give examples?

I can give you examples why I think it is weaker at least lyrically.

The chorus on IRS is kind of cirnge-worthy, and the inane rhyming on this I love to name just two.

Overall I much rather the angry Axl rallying against the world rather the world weary axl feeling sorry for himself.

I find I can connect with the AFD lyrics much more.

Musically its down to taste I suppose, but overall I much prefer AFD and its genius pop-rock riffs rather than the ballad heavy CD.

Also your point about CD being influential? I can hear the influences on CD everything from elton john to NIN but what music do you think CD has influenced in the last 2.5 years?

Even setting aside which is better musically surely appetite will be more influential simply because more people have heard it?

There are bands which were obviously influences like Love/Hate and even Nirvana in so much as they were reacting against the glam rock thing.

Really hope this is true!

I wonder if Axl contributed to the writing of the song?

Painkiller - Judas Priest

Breaking The Law - Judas Priest

Sailing - Rod Stewart

the rocked up version of Heartbreak Hotel would be great

First time i listened to appetite,

Ritz

and the VMA's the same year.

THAT'S WHY HE'S NOT TOURING. THAT'S WHY HE'S NOT RELEASING NEW MUSIC. he knows that we now have 14 songs of proof that he WAS NOT the sole creative genius behind GNR's grandeur!!!

Plus, the same way he wasn't the genius behind GnR, so wasn't the rest, just look at their releases and you tell me if that comes close to GnR.

That is the point though I believe they are far better together than apart.

Fair play that Chi Dem is your favourite album, but you must be as frustrated as fans of the classic line up are. You want the same guys who wrote your favourite music to keep writing and performing that type of music. Bus as it is it doesn't look like Bucket, Finck and possibly even Brain are coming back?

At this point the best you can hope for is Chi Dem II with re-recorded or embelishments from the current line up. Given how special Chi Dem is to you (and others) its unlikely that the nu-band are going to be able to give you more of what you even if they wanted to.

I could see the label refusing to release anything under the GNR name unless Slash is involved. They scored pretty big with the Best Buy deal, so there's no reason to release any more albums unless they think they can turn a profit.

Doesn't work that way. The U.S. govt does not allow one party to hold the other to non contract explicit conditions. If Axl agreed to that then fine, but i think we all know he has not at least not up to this point. Basically what you are describing is extortion.

if thats how they feel Axl could force them to release him from his contract.

I dount that they must realise by now that Axl would habe to want do a reunion (as would the rest of the members) trying to force him will only make him dig his hells in harder they must know that surely?