Lines&Noses

Why Did Axl Fight So Hard For The GNR Name?

To prevent shit or average material like Slash's last album to be credited under the name Guns N' Roses.

True we only got 1 true album since UYI I&II but it's only Very High Quality albums. Very few other bands if not any got this level of quality on each of their albums. Axl is a perfectionist, that's why he kept the name. Period.

Good insight and very true! Axl seems to be a very perceptive person and seeing the band implode,it was a sound legal move to include that he retained the band name if such a breakup occured.The beginning of the end was when Izzy left imo.

Saul is stuck in 1991 with his style and appearance.Axl brought the name in so what is the issue about Him using GNR as his band? It always was

To answer the question so far as I see it Axl kept the name so he could have "control". He originally seemed to have some ideas about going in a more industrial direction but in the end Chi Dem was not so industrial sounding, especially compared to OMG. The best liad pland of mie and men and all that.

I've said previously that while I am happy Axl is still out there performing the classic guns material personally I am disappointed in the new direction the music has taken. If the nu-band had a sound similar to the old band, blues based rock with great guitar riffs then I think you could make a more credible case for him keeping the name.

He could easily realease the Chi Dem material under his own name and if anything sans the baggage people might be more receptive to the new music more willing to listen?

Also what is really stopping him from releasing CDII and or recording with the current line up? I'm not saying they should go and record an album tomorrow but they could be continuiously working on new material which over time you would hope would produce a good album? But although DJ has signalled he is willing there seems to be no coordinated effort to get the current line up to write and record together?

I mean its pretty much three years since the release of Chi Dem?

To add:

Although other bands like Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Megadeth etc have gone through line up changes they have still kept a sound that was close to what the previous incarnation of the band so an evolution rather than revolution in terms of the sound.

I thought Axl was trying something in this vein when he had the nu line up re-record appetite, so they could tune in to the Original Guns sound while inevitibly adding their own dynamic, but it never really worked out like that.

Chi Dem sounds like a lot of different bands Axl is known to like from NIN to Elton John but it doesn't to me ear sound like a GnR record?

Why Did Axl Fight So Hard For The GNR Name?

To prevent shit or average material like Slash's last album to be credited under the name Guns N' Roses.

True we only got 1 true album since UYI I&II but it's only Very High Quality albums. Very few other bands if not any got this level of quality on each of their albums. Axl is a perfectionist, that's why he kept the name. Period.

Good insight and very true! Axl seems to be a very perceptive person and seeing the band implode,it was a sound legal move to include that he retained the band name if such a breakup occured.The beginning of the end was when Izzy left imo.

Saul is stuck in 1991 with his style and appearance.Axl brought the name in so what is the issue about Him using GNR as his band? It always was

To answer the question so far as I see it Axl kept the name so he could have "control". He originally seemed to have some ideas about going in a more industrial direction but in the end Chi Dem was not so industrial sounding, especially compared to OMG. The best liad pland of mie and men and all that.

I've said previously that while I am happy Axl is still out there performing the classic guns material personally I am disappointed in the new direction the music has taken. If the nu-band had a sound similar to the old band, blues based rock with great guitar riffs then I think you could make a more credible case for him keeping the name.

He could easily realease the Chi Dem material under his own name and if anything sans the baggage people might be more receptive to the new music more willing to listen?

Also what is really stopping him from releasing CDII and or recording with the current line up? I'm not saying they should go and record an album tomorrow but they could be continuiously working on new material which over time you would hope would produce a good album? But although DJ has signalled he is willing there seems to be no coordinated effort to get the current line up to write and record together?

I mean its pretty much three years since the release of Chi Dem?

great interview. interesting stuff.

2nded I am suprised Gilby hasn't spoken so openly about his time in GnR before

Izzy didnt turn off VR offer, not from scratch at least. I've read somewhere he wanted it to be only the 4 of them (Slash, Duff, Izzy and Matt)

it kills me thinking how awesome that would have been

Contraband was the closest we habe come to this. It was based on the music they (Slash, Izzy(briefly), Duff, Matt (and Dave)) wrote. I thought Izzy wanted to sing originally and when that was rejected by the other band members it lead in part to Izzy walking. It' long been known he hates touring which prolly didn't help either.

That's why Contraband and Libertad sound so different as Scott was very heavily involved in Libertad but Contraband was already written by the time he come on board.

Contraband is closer to the old guns sound imno (for the most part I don't even like Libertad) but it was never going to recapture the old magic even assuming you had a functioning Adler and an Izzy that was fully engaged. Without Axl you'd be missing that vital ingredient.

Even now when I listen to Contraband I can't help but wish for Axl's voice.

Ill explain this one last time. Please try to read this post. Love guns. Love axl. But axl has fucked up a whole lot. A whole lot. Throughout the past several years. And one nu album, which doesn't really even represent the current lineup of the band, that flat lined shortly after release, and divided fans in half (both with bias and unbias views on both sides of the fence) isn't quite enough to win the majority of fans over. See, as a fan of the band, I reserve the right to express my very warranted criticism. Like it or hate it, if you really read most of my posts with even a half open mind, you will see most of what I say is more based on facts than opinions. The majority of fans AREN'T happy about axl continuing to use the name, the name that had four other helping hands gain the exposure it has today. Can you dispute that? The new nu guys haven't done diddly squat except the same ol tour and the same old songs over and over, year after year (although they do put on one heck of a show, no denying that) for two years now. They have yet to prove they're a band that can stand on their own without relying heavily on the old covers, that again, four or five other guys contributed to, all who are gone. Can you dispute that? As a gnr fan, a certain level of frustration is understandable, and as gnr fans, we have a right to express this. Can you dispute that? If you can, with any of these claims, go for it!

Yeah, duff and izzy performed with axl since. But if they had any say, if they could some how cut the legal rope that ties their hands, do you really think they'd really let axl go on like this? That can be agrued, but I personally don't think so. They love axl, may not understand his ways, but still love him (hey something me and them have in common!), and hell they still get their royalty checks, so why not just keep hush hush about something that's beyond their control? But as fans, we can stand up and say how we feel. Positive or negative. We're the ones that REALLY lose. Or win. Depending how good you can make of a bad situation (my opinion only of course!)

As for being a "slash" fan boy, nice cop out. His solo album was far from my cup of tea, and I don't agree with a lot of what he's been doing post velvet. Did you see my criticism in the thread that talks about him appearing on that disney cartoon? But his legacy is already cemented in stone. His riffs, his solos, the whole nine. Music critics will always have that to remember him by. Like or hate him now, he's EARNED that legacy. Has bumble? Has dj? Again, not yet. Maybe not ever. Only time will tell.

I stick around for hopefully some light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe with that being the nu band taking off, or a reunion of the classic lineup. Ill take either or at this point. When the day comes this band EARNS praise, besides playing same ol same ol, ill be the first one here posting praise. Its really that simple. But until then, ill grab some popcorn, watch the baffling schmunks who can't get their mouths off axls cock long enough to see what's actually going on in the gnr world around them, and keep posting my opinions on what has become of my favorite band.

Just for those who "didn't see it".

Nice post Bobo apart from the cock part! Try not to make it personal?

I agree with most of what you say though.

Nothing wrong with Duff or his answer.

Yes, there's something wrong. All the people who want a GNR reunion just want to see their favourite band performing again. It's as simple as that. It has absolutely nothing to do with "getting their youth back".

Duff is not good at playing Dr. Freud.

I agree with you on Duff and his remarks. But as far as a reunion it could not work. For one thing what would they call the band? Axl owns the GNR name and there is no way that Slash or Duff would work for Axl. Plus the emotional stress it would put on Axl and Slash would have to be tremendous. All this of course is JMO.

Of course under such a set up it would not work, indeed its big part of why the original band split. Things is though I really think a reunion would work. Having seen Gnr Old and nu, VR and Slash numerous times I can see the old magic is still there, that's the frustrating thing.

Very informative topic,thanks

didn't Axl sell his rights to the old music away?

Coma, then finish off with a happier tone, Paradise City.

done!

Actually I don't post as much as I used to. The forum used to be a whole lot more enjoyable when there weren't so many slash fan boys dominating every topic in here with their negativity.

So my posts bother you....but your cool with the guys who post the SAME negative crap in every post. Hhmm. Interesting how that works.

Bobo and a couple of these guys are complete clowns. It is funny to get them all riled up. But I seriously expect more from you. I've read your posts in other topics and sections and all though I disagree with a lot of your opinions- your iq is probably 20-25 points higher than most of the anti-Axl posters in here.

I understand you love slash and the old band. And that your mad Axl kept the name. But seriously.......what is the point of going to a GnR forum just to bash Axl? Anybody who spends more time in a forum bashing a singer they don't like than they spend chatting in a forum of a singer that they do like.....I just literally cannot comprehend that.

I loved guy peace in Memento. But he is terrible in almost every other movie. I can't imagine going to his forum just to bash him. Daily. It just makes no sense to me.

As intelligent and as passionate as you are - I would think you would understand this.

Life is simple. Don't like what Axl has done? Understandable. So spend your free time in forums of singers that you enjoy.

And again. I'm pretty sure I have already told you this before. I've never once said u have to worship everything Axl does. Ever. I've criticized things he has done plenty of times. In fact, during the last tour a few people in here were calling me an Axl-hater because I was ripping him about the late start times.

So I will stop posting the same stuff over and over....as soon as you and bobo and Norte and all the slash fan boys stop posting the same negative crap in EVERY topic.

See that is part of the problem Groghan is you generalize that anyone who criticizes Axl blindly loves Slash, desperately wants a reunion, is mad that Axl kept the name etc...If you actually read my posts you would understand that many of us are not looking for all these things.. I don't care about a reunoin as I have seen the real Guns back in the day, admit that Slash is not perfect, accept the fact that Axl owns the Guns name and think it was a smart business move to continue to use it even if I don't think NuGuns is the real thing anymore, etc...

Fan like myself, SiliconMessiah, Bobbo, Del Norte and even Sunny Dre are Guns fans but we crticize where we feel it is justified and in my case I jump into threads when I see people rewriting history to try to make Axl look like some innocent victim..I have never trolled threads just to stir the shit and have never called Axl names, other than I think he can be an asshole, or said ChiDem sucks etc just to get people worked up....

I gained a new appreciattion for Mindsaber after reading his recent post and actually have similar views except from the other side of the coin. I thought his summary of his views was excellent

One thing you should know about me, I do not tolerate when people make disparaging comments which aren't true. Notice I said "which aren't true." If people wanna bitch about Axl being late, or Axl having an ego, or his way of working, or his venomousness, or his use of the band name, or the old days, or whatever, fine, so be it. But there is a way to articulate observations or criticisms of Axl and/or the band. Consequently, when people get shitty, and/or cupcake constantly, I let loose and unleash rage their way. And I will also continue to call people out when they take one little morsel of info, and either extrapolate from it wildly, or openly envelop it in lies. This is not counting all the know-it-all psychics around here.

I don't happen to agree with many of his opinions but I can respect his willingness to accept other members opinions which differ from his as long as he does not think they are just trolling for reaction.......

You could learn a thing or two from Mindsaber in that not everyone who criticizes Axl and NuGuns are cupcakes and that instead of continually whining about people who do criticize Axl/NuGuns why not try offering a counterpoint...

There will always be cupcakes on both sides who are happy to just start shit but there is also a small group of real fans on both sides of the fence who are willing to debate things in a mature intelligent manner...You seem to be one of the smart ones mate you should try joining the debates sometime..........

Well if nothing else the quality of debate round here is certainly improving nice to see.

Part of me is glad Axl kept the name/band going, I still love watching him perform, especially the AFD and UYI material.

My only real issue with Axl keeping the name is not so much that the band no longer features the rest of the AFD line up (my personal favourite) but it's that he took the music in a completely different direction?

He said in the chats that the music on Chi Dem would probably have sounded very different if it were not released under the GnR name, but if he really wanted to produce a record that sat comfortably in the rest of the GnR cannon I don't think he succeeded?

To me a GnR record should primarily be a rock record featuring some great guitar riffs (and they don't have to be produced by Slash/Izzy). Axl also responded when asked why there were so many ballads on chi dem: that you can't force the music. Well I think this is true but he spent 10 years trying to produce an industrial album rather than just letting the music evolve naturally?

On the subject of names: I sometimes ask myself would I feel differently about Chi Dem if it was released as an Axl solo record rather than a GnR record. I really don't think it would make a difference to me personally. I also try to think what it would be like if it was produced by a band I had never heard of before, again I'm not sure the outcome would have been so different for me personally but I would probably not have listened to it quite so much trying to "get it". There are four songs I like and I don;t think that number is going to increase for me.

I will always love Axl and will of course listen to Chi Dem II. I just hope if offers more up tempo tracks and perhaps marks a move towards the classic guns sound. The fact that DJ ashba is on board is a hark back to their LA glam roots so maybe it will?

voted Estranged, I think the new band could do that song live as well as or better then the old band.

Went Coma in the end but it's a bit arbitrary given how many great songs are on those albums!

He's been my hero for the last ten years. I'm so worried about him.

He looked very healthy during the chats though but who knows what he goes through during physical therapy...

I just hate the fact that random assholes can come into your life and ruin the fuck out of it.

I don't think Ron would be playing unless he thought he could do a good show. Here's wishing him a full and speedt recovery.

I guess something about the music just clicked with me. When I first got AFD, I couldn't stop listening to it for months. I'd say the whole album got at least a total run through every day for about 3 or 4 months.

I love nearly every GnR song, and they're the only band I can say that for. That, added with the attitude and the general awesomeness of those 5 guys just made me love GnR.

Totally agree. It was AFD that first made me fall in love with the band.

Axl voice and lyrics along with Slash and Izzy's synergenistic guitar playing, I have never fallen so deeply in love with an album before or since.

I do like the bands other releases but AFD is the stand out album for me.

I hope there's some short catchy songs on CD2, some happy tunes, and less angry, paranoid stuff.

I hope there are more rockers, Axl has prolly the best Rock voice ever (or at the very least of his generation) I just wish he would use it to rock more.

Wasn't the slow,menacing version the original version of the song,and it was sped up in tempo for AFD? Regardless we have both to listen to so It's win-win

This is my favourite album of all time, still sounds as good today as it did 25 years ago!!

Well I do remember him mentioning in the chats that he resented (or something akin) how people had obtained certain mixes (via bootleg, from sqwirrel or whatever) or stripped down versions of songs that would eventually end up on Chinese Democracy and subsequently those people became attached to those early versions of certain songs.

I don't really see why that is such a problem?

If people like different versions of the songs, better than not liking hte songs at all?

Even if you prefer the final album version its usually still interesting to hear the other versions which invariably will contain some parts of small twist that you like?

OK reallly liked the solo's thread so I thougt I'd start another.

Riff does not have to be guitar based just a repeated musical phrase.

So if you liked the drum and synth at the beginning of TWAT you can use that.

mine:

1.) WTTJ

2.) YCBM

3.) Rocket Queen (specifically the part with the "sex" scene)

I think it sounds like the perfect late 90s record. I never seen GNR as in touch with the times. It would have sold 20 mil tho. Maybe like UYI.

Ya, you're right iftheworld, in my opinion CD sold 20 million.

it would have done in the 90s

probably not, that was Nirvana's decade. And an album like CD would've been seen as very out of touch with the times

I honestly don't think it has the cross over appeal of UYI of nevermind?

It doesn't mean it's a bad recored per se, its just not that commercial. I think Axl alluded to this in some of the comments he made prior to its release. He didn't even expect the exisitng GnR fan base to like everything on it.

May only work in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/festivals/tinthepark/2011/artists/slash/

Gotta say Myles was not the orginal singer on most of these songs but he covers them really well!!

I've been thinking about this lately. Why do people want a reunion.

The simple fact is as follows. It won't be good. It'll be 5 people who are just playing together.

The chemistry is long gone. And that's what made GNR great. The onstage chemistry. Okay so Slash Duff and Matt might still have chemistry what with VR ect but it would be them against Axl and Izzy.

You look at how tight the band were in 1987 and compare it to 1993. Even then they were doing their own thing onstage.

It just woulden't work.

The fact is these guys are better together than they are apaprt.

Judging by Ghost on slash's last album he and Izzy still have the chemistry. Plus while the first VR album ws good as was, with Axl on board I think it would have been sublime.

Plus Duff was awesome when he joined GnR for the London show last year, that was without the best performance of YCBM I've seen from the nu-band by far. and I say that having seen the old band in 91, + the nu band in 02,06 and 10 plus loads of others via video.

The simple fact is the nu-band does not have the charisma or attitude of the old band and never will (largely because I don't think Axl wants them to).

When I see nu-GnR its to see Axl, but if I had the choice between nu-GnR and classic GnR it's be the classic line up every time, they were imo the best rock band ever and I sincerely hope I get a chance o see them together again before one or more of them dies. Or even better have them record together.

In short I blieve the old band wrote the best music I haveever heard and were much better live.

Live and Let Die, Mr Brownstone, Chinese Democracy, Think About You, This I Love, Street of Dreams

this I love, Street of Dreams, Sorry,

Would like to hear: Anything goes, Civil War, Coma, TWAT, prostitiute,

There might be more music in the pipe line, but the GN'R sound vanished the moment Izzy, Slash and Duff quit the band.

Guns N'Roses is more than Axl Rose, even if he does own the name.

I have to say I am not optimistic that Axl can recapture the magic on his own.

If they had Bumbelfoot on the cover I would have misunderstood Welcome to the Jungle as a song he partook in.

The agreement between Beta and a Guitar Hero representative was allegedly that "no character old or new" appear in the game alongside "Welcome to the Jungle" (presumably GN'R would have followed this up with a request for a legitimate legal document confirming the already in place arrangement).

Thanks for clearing that up.

Also i will quote myself:

Activision also screwed Courtney Love. she almost died seeing Kurt singing Bon Jovi songs

They told her that they would not use his image for any other songs than Nirvana.

Also No Doubt sued them and won

http://news.softpedi...le-140114.shtml

Activision is going down hard!

OK but using the Kurt case as a precedent, would seem to back activisions case because slash played and indeed wrote the guitar parts for Jungle?

it falls more along the lines of waterworld than daydream nation if that is what you are asking.

i liken it more to ishtar, than office space.

Typical. Perhaps some of the nuance and depth of CD eluded you.

From my point of view however, I would liken Chinese Democracy to some of David Lynch's work- particularly Dune, which although it was a big budget film, has become a cult favorite, especially among fans of Lynch, Dune (the book), and sci-fi fans.

I like the Dune film now that I have read the book (actually I read them all) I don't think you can properly understand the film without reading the book.

Maybe there is something that I need to unlock Chi Dem too (maybe Chi Dem II and III?), but as it is as a stand alone piece of work I really find it rather disappointing.

See i find it better without that second verse.

I just love the riff at 3:50 up to the outro. Great song easily one of the best on appetite and thats saying somwthing.

Axl's voice is clearly struggling at this stage but the band still put it a kick arse performance.

Love this gig and that song in particular.

The first one does sound like a speeded up version of only woman bleed but could just as easily be coincidence.

The 2nd i kinda recognise but I'm not sure whre from.

It bears a passing resemblance to the rhythm section behind the solo here try from 2:24:

I know that Slash said he jamed a lot with Dave so maybe it was a nod to those sessions or again could just be coincidence.