Lines&Noses

if axl gets the terms he wants, it could happen. i think this new 2010 line up is more a hobby than anything. the bucket line up was axls chance to bring back gnr, it didnt work out. i think he put cd out to see the process thru, and now he is just going thru the motions. if we ever get an ashba/ron gnr album ill be f-in shocked. i think this new crew has a short life expectancy. which would leave 2013 looking pretty good. slash & co would have to make some huge concessions to make this happen and i dont think they will.

and i dont blame them.

Why does it always have to be Axl' way? Why can't he be the one who will compromise?

Because he's Axl. He owns the name of the band. If Slash wants back in, he'll agree to Axl's terms.

Perhaps but it would be foolish to accept such a situation to recreate the old chemistry there can hardly be a heirarchy?

CD showed that with AXL is sole control even with a whole rosta of talanted musicians who could not recreate the old magic?

I don't think things would be different with Slash et al on board.

It all stems from the world's enormous desire to see that incarnation again. I can't think of another divorced band out there that still has such public demand. Zeppelin, and thats a maybe.

maybe? that's a much more so.

That dream died with John. No disrespect to Jason.

Word.

nah, people would still take a reunited Slash Duff and Ax, and sacrifice them into a volcano just to see Page, Plant and Jones tour together again.

Slash Duff Axe (steve and Izzy) over Zep any day or even just Slash duff and Ax. I really like Led Zepplin but the AFD are the ultimate rock band imo.

Neither one was replacable, quit failing at talking shit about Slash. Any album without either one of them would be terrible, which we saw.

No, actually the album we got without Slash was pretty damn good.

Yeah but in most peoples opinions not close to as good as AFD or even the UYI albums....

In most people's opinion Rap is the greatest music ever and Lady Gaga is a musical genius.

The same people who think rap is the greatest music ever and consider Lady Gaga a musical genius didn't like Chinese Democracy either.

That's my point, actually.

It still sold a lot of copies and yet you guys act like NO ONE likes it. Not true.

And the fact that it wasn't the biggest selling album ever, well, rock in general is basically dead, and for a band that hadn't released an album and had kept a pretty low profile in context since 1993 it did pretty damn good.

For a gnr album is sold poorly and given that best buy paid 14 million for a US only exclusive means they at least had higher expectations for the sales.

Also at the end of the day I bought it but having listened to it repeatedly I don't like it, save for 4 songs. I'm really not sure at this stage if I woud buy CDII, maybe 2nd hand from the bargain bucket, mabe not at all.

As to your original point Izzy was irreplaceable as was Slash. The whole band was synergy that they will never replace while apart.

I think Axl would like to be seen as GnR and that he could do it without the AFD guys. Well for me CD has only gone to show that he can't do it alone. I also freely admit that the other AFD members have come no where near what they achieved when they were together either.

That's why I'd love to see them together the greatest band, back producing the greatest music!!

Let's be honest, Axl could have released the equivalent of Welcome to the Jungle, Sweet Child O' Mine and Paradise City with new GNR and we'd still get people on here saying it was shite, that's a fact.

I think the mainstream would have excepted them far more but quality is far better than quantity, so it depends on your view on how good Chinese Democracy is?

For me anyway I 100% disagree with the first part. I wanted to believe but CD just doesn't do it for me. I like 4 songs on it and there are several I actively dislike.

If he had done the equivalnet to WTTJ, SCOM or PC I (and I suspect many others) would have been all over it believe me I am dying to hear music that good again.

Not necessarily look at U2 whether or not you like their music they are still releasing reocrds which are critical and commercial successes to a large and appreciative fan base.

I see no reason why GnR could not have done something similar.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing. If GNR had just been churning out records, they'd just be seen as another run-of-the-mill ageing rock band. Look at someone like Pearl Jam - their career has just been on the decline for years now. As rock bands get older, they become less relevent. Rock is a young man's game.

Whereas with GNR, Axl is this mysterious, enigmatic figure - so people are still interested - there is a strange fascination with this slightly odd guy who refuses to compromise - and is still saying 'FUCK YOU!' after all these years. Isn't that what rock music is all about?

The Wise One

If GN'R/"Nu-GN'R" had released new records by now, do you think there would be such a stigma still attached with them?

For example let's say CD came out in 1999/2000; CD in 2002/2003, CD III in 2006/2007 and CDIV next year, do you think the new band would be accepted as Guns by more people?

What about yourself? Do you see the lack of new releases by the new band a factor in you not being able to see it as Guns?

Steven! I like him the second best in original GN'R, Slash comes the first!

Gotta be steve in my book.

GnR for me is the AFD line up.

Also when you consider that Axl refered to Matt as the emplyee he hardly seems to consider him a full member.

Plus Izzy's comment about the band not being the same after Steve left suggests he would also agree.

I was young and watched them live on MTV in 1988. I thought they were the most filthy,dangerous,violent and monstrous band I had ever seen....and I LIKED it.

That pretty much sums it up for me too.

Heard a little of PC on the TV, and was instantly hooked.

Ran out got the album and played it over and over (I wore out at least two tapes)

But the Ritz show completely sealed it for me. I was almost afraid to watch in case they didn't live up to my expectations instead they completely blew me away!!

Sensational.

I enjoyed "Appetite for Destruction: The Days of Guns N' Roses" by "No One Here Gets Out Alive" author Danny Sugerman.

I really enjoyed this one too, it was interesting in its own right though rather than in depth boi of the band.

Slash's book was cool too, there were some inconsistencies in it regarding dates etc but it was nice to get the view from the inside.

The amount of Axl nut-swinging by 2 people here in this thread in particular is absolutely insane... Seriously that kind of fan devotion and defense is downright scary..

Funny how all of Axl's bitching about litigation that he seems more then willing to want to go after this. Not to mention the Irving Azoff case, and the Dr Pepper thing...

Please don't talk that way about a kid who was barely born when Slash was in Guns or a guy who (allegedly) posted on here as a teenage girl. They are just as big of fans as anyone else and I'm sure Axl would be proud that they are his biggest supporters!

See, This kind of comment isn't needed nor warranted, We know you are trying to be clever and take a dig at someone you obviously have personal problems with, but in actuality it's Your problem,so deal with it, I also do not get the people that are saying "yeah, Axl's got a case,but he ought to forget about it" What the hell kind of logic is this? That is 4 shades of stupid, Activision chose to mislead and decieve,so they should suffer the consequences and pay the piper for their wrongful actions, It needs to be dealt with and sorted out as soon as possible,considering the time lapse from when this was first brought up and now,it seems a considerable amount of thought and collection of evidence/facts has been invested,It's not frivolous, and it's a valid complaint.

OK but what is Axl trying t achieve here?

Surely if he was truely upset by the association of Slash and WTTJ/GnR raking it up in this case is just going to make it worse raising the profile of it still further?

Morally can he really object to the association of slash to the guitar parts fro WTTJ he did write them after all?

And if he thinks by winning the case that it will change the opinion of the public one way or the other he is likely to be sorely disappointed.

Or does he just fancy trying his arm at getting come cash off of Activision? Fair enough but I's rather he focussed his energies on recording new music.

Out of all the "Axl" songs, This I Love is the worst. It sounds like a really bad Queen song. Maybe a rip off of Love of My Life by Queen.

Ah yes you are right about it sounding like a bad queen song.

I like KoRn.

Or at least I used to until Head left.

Anyway, I don't think it's gonna be with GnR because KoRn and GnR usually treat their audiences in very opposite ways so I don't see them co-headlining for...say...more than two dates.

Well they are already doing several dates early nest year?

Personally I'd love to see a Korn/GnR co-headliner.

Am I the only one who thinks CITR may be the best song on CD?

same here

Don't Damn me

14 Years

Dust N' Bones

Coma

Back Off Bitch

Rocket Queen

Bad Apples

Locomotive

Breakdown

Ain't Fun cover, (i think it's great)

ah yeah Ain't it fun is great, as it Down on the Farm and new rose!

Am I the only one who thinks CITR may be the best song on CD?

No I think the same

Rocket Queen

Think about you

Coma

Civil War (why don't they play this one any more?)

Breakdown

Crazy (both versions)

Locamotive

Right next door to Hell

Don't Damn Me

Better shoulda been a hit

Every so often a list of the greatest albums ever made is compiled. Nevermind now charts in the top ten of most of these list. A fucking disgrace . The reason usually is that Nevermind killed off hair metal or some how changed the landscape drastically. It is my belief that GNR/Appetite killed off hair metal. Hair metal was dead for like two year by the time Nevermind came along. Am I the only person who believes that NEvermind is the most overated album of all time, at least over rated by journalist. I dont dislike Nirvana because Axl either i just cant stand how the bands influence is overated, therefore i cant stand them.

Did Appetite kill hair metal: no, just look at the WTTJ video. I'm not sying Appetite was a hair metal album it wasn't, but it was one of several influences the original guns melded into what was in my opioion the best album of all time.

Nevermind was a great album in its own right , but I think you are right it rides high on most top 10s because it marked a cultural watershed rather than the intrinsic briliance of the music itself.

.Hopefully some day the raw UYI demos will surface......

like these ones?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGdvcsPrmwQ

i don't think the album was ruined, they're still great songs... yes it sounds "different" but that's all

That's fucking awesome! Do we have more of these UYI demos? Can we make a list?

That is sensational the outro is simply sublime!

Slash claims the UYI were albums were molested by Axl. I love Slash deeply by the way, but after listening to the UYI albums thousands of times i just dont hear it. Songs on both albums have electronic noises , but the only song i really hear it on is Garden of Eden. If you took away all the interference by Axl would there really be a different album. Of course axl says without him you would not have Izzy's songs.

In a word no.

But to my ears the albums do relfect a band pulling in different directions. Real shame because if they band had been 100% focussed and pulling together i think those albums had the potential to top appetite.

Duff is a class-act!!!

+1

Cool read, thanks for posting.

2nded just happy that these two managed to reconcile.

I've always thought that Illusion era videos suck, except for Dead horse. They're so fucking ridiculous it ain't even funny. So my vote goes for either Welcome to the jungle or Dead horse.

Paradise City

Live and let Die

YCBM

The band are so awesome live I think its best when the video captures at least some of that.

End of show with Axl thanks.

Ah happy memories I was basically in a similar position but to the left hand side of the stage!

I used to think I wanted a full reunion, but after seeing Izzy and Duff on stage with Axl, I don't think I care anymore. The music with either of these guys playing doesn't sound any different from Axl's lineup

So judging by that mentality then anybody can call themselves Guns N Roses as long as they play the right notes. Hell, in 30 years time when Axl pops his cloggs we could just get a soundalike vocalist to replace him as well.

A great band is made up by the chemistry created by it's members. The chemistry of the AFD lineup resonated with millions and made the brand name of GNR what it is today.

Axl's just riding the crest of that legacy, no different to Adler's Appetite.

I disagree, I think the YCBM Duff played was the best version that I have heard in years (and I've seen the band several times) of course this is not down to Duff alone but there is no doubt that the whole place got a lift when he came on stage.

He also the charisma and stage presence to share a stage with Axl.

As I've said repeatedly the orginal line up had a chemistry that they have each totally failed to recreate on their own.

I just hope they at least write together again if nothing else.

1.) Ritz 88

2.) Wembley 91

3.) Hammersmith 06/Oct 14th O2 10

I've been thinking a bit about the meaning of the song Madagascar, and I think it represents an apology from Axl for OIAM. Madagascar is a place of special significance because it was the place the Nazis considered exiling Jewish people to (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan). I think Axl is trying to transcend what he expressed with OIAM by suggesting that he is now able to take a different view, and understand the reality of all attempts at racial segregation and persecution. It puts his actions in a wider historical context and shows an older, wiser person reflecting on very significant issues. Issues of “small town” racism (like OIAM) ultimately can lead to even more terrifying realities, such as genocide or the forced relocation of a whole people.

I think it's very brave of someone to put emotions/thoughts like this into a song because the strength of the song/lyrics has to overcome allegations that it's just an “apologist” attempt to make up for widely perceived racism, or that MLK is used as some kind of talisman to this end. I think the song does succeed though and I think it allows for the fact that people make mistakes, even terrible mistakes, and change. In that respect I think it's a song of hope. Axl is saying “I won't be told anymore that I've been brought down in this storm” (allegations of racism) and “left so far out from the shore that I can't find my way back anymore” (note: he no longer attempts to refute his accusers, he simply “blesses” them). In essence, I think Madagascar IS Axl “finding [his] way back” (in a certain sense, he might feel that his younger self had led him close to his own kind of Madagascar). It shows that people are not forever defined by a statement made in ignorance but can learn and sincerely change the way they perceive the world.

My 2 cents anyway. Maybe I'm wrong!

Nice post!

The Nazi link has been made before although mose poeple seem to take the song to be about the ex-band members.

Keep em coming though always nice to hear a fresh view!

If its Duff vs Tommy, I'd choose Duff any day. Listen to the bass track on the multitrack of Welcome to the Jungle and compare it with any bass track off CD.

+1 the guy is a better bassist has tonnes more charisma and is GnR not nu-GnR.

what loaded means by that long winded rant is that is Axl called him today and offered for him to come on tour with him, Loaded would say no way. Sure fella, sure.

Anyways the topic is not Jarmo it's about a secret gig that never happened today...

Yeah i know that the topic is not about Jarmo, But you totally missed the point of my rant.Example: When you take pictures at a GN'R show do you keep them in a dark corner of you room and decide to post them after 15 years. And in the meantime shitting on the guy who's not sharing the 2002 VMA rehearsals. (????)

I can't speak for him and wont, but did it ever cross your mind that maybe just maybe he believes in this band and wants to showcase the band members? We have zillions of Axl pics from every angle from every gig. Anyway I don't know if he even takes pics of Axl, even if he does rest assured he aint doing what you say with them, he is critical of his photo work.

Alright, never mind we won't get anywhere with this dissuasion

thanks to both of you for the info.

GOD IF YOU CAN HEAR ME, PLEASE BRING THIS CONCERT TO DVD.

Fuck I keep crying listening to the songs everytime.

BTW: Is it me or was that one of the best versions of YCBM You've ever heard. WOW.

It was truely fantastic!!