Rustycage
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Posts posted by Rustycage
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The moment you open your mouth and talk about a future project or show and create the demand, you owe it to them to deliver. Can't deal with it? Keep your mouth shut. The last thing to do is to blame your fans for a sense of entitlement because you personally fail to deliver.
It is not a new theory that when you want to see an example of what NOT to do as a band, look at GNR.
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I don't make assumptions of people. Maybe they agree, maybe they don't. I don't know cause I haven't heard it from Axl's mouth. Anyway, this is getting out of topic.
If you don't make assumptions then what are you doing on a GNR board? That is all GNR fans have is assumption since ya know... GNR never say shit.
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GNR are lucky if they even actually actually sold 1.5 million copies of CD to the public. We know that as of 2011, over million were collecting dust in the Best Buy warehouse.
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Now these numbers are up to date?
Rusty. You got a source?
/sigh
A source for which?
The fact that majority of the certifications were done under shipments? Yes. The certifying bodies themselves.
The source for the 2.6 million figure? Yes. Again, the certifying bodies.
The source for what qualifies as gold and platinum in those countries? Yes. Again, the bodies themselves. lol
What are you trying to dispute? I'm not the one claiming that more albums have been bought since the official numbers of '09 when we know for a fact that not all of the shipped copies were actually sold. Demand never reached the levels anticipated by the shipment totals.
What's even more funny is that all but 10,000 of the original 2.6 million figure were certified by shipments. You are a fool for marketing and actually believe 2.6 million different people bought the album that soon.
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When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.
I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject.
We know what his view is based on the view of his "management." A bunch of crazy negative complainers.
Axl and his management team don't necessarily agree on everything though. But you could be right.
What makes you think they don't agree? Just what happens to those that disagree with him?(From what we DO know)
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When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.
I'm still not defending Axl here. I don't even know what Axl's view is on the whole subject.
We know what his view is based on the view of his "management." A bunch of crazy negative complainers.
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When you're calling the fans crazy in defense of Axl "certifiable" Rose, I have to chuckle.
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Just for the fuck of it, let's figure out just how many were shipments instead of actual sales. These countries certify based on shipments instead of sales.
USA: 1.6 million
Canada: 240,000
Australia: 70,000
Germany: 100,000
Japan: 100,000
Denmark: 10,000
Greece: 3,000
Netherlands: 20,000
Sweden: 20,000
United Kingdom: 300,000
2.46 million of the totals are certified by shipments and NOT sales. Assuming that more sold is wishful thinking and denying that all were not sold and supply is still available.
2/3 of the album totals are inflated by shipments.
Edited for more accuracy.
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Your new revised list without a link but will give benefit of the doubt.
Finland: 20,000
CR: 5,000
Germany(shipments): Was already included with the updated totals
Ireland: 15,000
Italy(including streaming): 50,000
Norway: 30,000
Poland: 20,000
Romania: Back up this claim
Switzerland: 20,000
UK(shipments): Already included
Argentina: You're repeating yourself
Australia(shipments): Already included
New Zealand: 15,000
South Africa 40,000
You new "revised" list platinum total: 195,000
Gold:
Austria: 75,000
Belgium: 15,000
Denmark(shipments): 10,000
France: 50,000
Greece(shipments): 3,000
Hungary: 1,000
Netherlands(shipments): 20,000
Sweden(shipments): 20,000
Indonesia: Repeating yourself again
Japan(shipments): Again, already mentioned.
Malaysia: 5,000
Singapore: 5,000
Taiwan: 5,000
Thailand: 5,000
Brazil: 20,000
Colombia: 5,000
Gold total: 239,000
From earlier:
Indonesia: 5,000
Argentina: 40,000
Total after the 2.6 million figure with laziness and giving you the benefit of the doubt: 479,000
We are STILL at 3 million albums. I was generous earlier when I originally said 3 million. Even if you want to use that number, you're at 3.5 million with a lot of them being shipments and not sales. I find you trying to stack numbers twice on there by repeating what I have already listed. Certification matters, not blank claims. To be honest, your list looks like a whole bunch of a little.
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It's a question you can't answer. But I'm sure you'll try anyways.
The question was whether or not bands operate under the guise that they owe things to their fans. Anyone that thinks you don't owe your success to your fans is retarded. And if they think they don't owe their fans explanations when members are quitting and huge rumors are circulating are naive. Also when members come out after 2 huge departures and claim the very next year is going to be a huge year for the band, the trap is set for an explanation as to how and why.
All of this defense is just deflecting responsibility like teenagers. Like truly irresponsible and naive teenage musicians to be exact.
The level these guys go to when defending Axl is hilarious.
Not sure if you're talking to me? Cause I'm not defending Axl here. I'm defending the human right to live you're life freely without some morons claiming that you owe them something.
In this world, nothing is free. The world doesn't owe you freedom or anonymity, especially when you bait them.
Don't want people to intrude? Don't become a fuckin celebrity. Easy lesson.
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Gold in Indonesia is 5,000.
Platinum is 40,000 in Argentina.
Got anything else?
EDIT: Corrected
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That's officially retarded.
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The level these guys go to when defending Axl is hilarious.
"Axl doesn't owe the fans anything because musicians are all stupid." - random guy on the internet for most of the day with no tangtible contributions
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The Best Buy deal was originally 1.6 million copies. That is included in the sales figures since they were sold to Best Buy and shipped. 1.6 million of the 2.6 million figure is the Best Buy deal. No, they didn't "buy another 1 million." They already had them and they collected dust until 2011 when they were brought out for clearance. Then they ended up in dollar stores when they didn't clear.
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Back to a more coherent and relevant discussion.
Surely if CD had sold that many more albums, it would have achieved an additional x# status.
1x Platinum in America (between 1-1.9 million)
3x Platinum in Canada (240,000-319,000)
1x Platinum in Australia (70,000-139,000)
1x Gold in Germany (100,000-199,000)
1x Platinum in Iceland (10,000-19,000)
1x Gold in Japan (100,000-249,000)
According to the album certifications, even if you bloat it to the highest possible amount, it has sold 3 million records. The Best Buy deal inflated the numbers in America(the largest contributor to the "sales" figures) and your wishful thinking that millions more lined up for the album are groundless.
Unless you want to claim that the certifications are wrong, you're completely full of it.
EDIT for more clarity: As of 2011, we know that Best Buy still had a million copies of CD still left over from the 1.6 million copy deal. That is when they marked it down to 1.99 for clearance. We also know a large portion ended up on dollar store shelves. As of 2011, where was that huge demand you are talking about? (Hint: It doesn't exist because you're lying) Outside of America, every other market would need to achieve double the current certification just to sale another 1 million. That is combined! AFAIK, the certifications are up to date and it is safe and more realistic to conclude that CD did not sell another 1 million records after the RIR disaster, the "You, me" disaster or the Golden Gods disaster. In case the bubble was too thick, they were jokes in the minds of the masses.
For an album that cost over 13 million dollars to make, that is NOT a success. If it were a new band with a typical album that would look pretty good. For CD and it's pricetag along with being a heavily anticipated Guns N Roses release, that doesn't look good. Again, the point is if CD did not deliver as expected, WTF makes anyone think that it's follow up would benefit from a surprise release coupled with all of the disasters still fresh in the public mind?
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Your crusade is to make shit up and then label the people that disagree as haters. That's pathetically childish.
Why stop at millions of albums? Why not billions? That's even more positive isn't it? Shit, let's go for trillions!
I don't label people who constantly drag a discussion into a knuckle dragging session, including you chief.
Subtle but proved my point quite nicely. Thanks.
No worries captain. I don't lose sleep over how much cd sold or how many times its been played on Spotify or listen to Whitesnake in my undies or how dare buckethead wear a bucket on his head on stage with gnr, (his name...take a hint) or maynard, apollo & rusty pretending to be mygnr's A-Team.
Wait... tell me that one again about how you aren't labeling people that disagree with your lies.
We lose sleep over it? You seem to be the one taking it so personal as your responses show.
Spotify? That was another poster trying to do the very thing you're doing here and that is to hopefully convince people that CD is a huge success.
Listens to whitesnake in their undies? Is that a mix of being condescending and with homoerotic fantasies of the people you disagree with?
What is wrong with Buckethead? He is talented and deserved every second of spotlight in GNR. I find it funny that you took one sentence to build this strawman and respond to it. Very simplistic.
WTF is mygnr A-Team? There are simply lies and truth and you're doing nothing but making shit up and then rambling about men's underwear. Trust me, it wouldn't take an A-Team to take down your silly argument.
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Your crusade is to make shit up and then label the people that disagree as haters. That's pathetically childish.
Why stop at millions of albums? Why not billions? That's even more positive isn't it? Shit, let's go for trillions!
I don't label people who constantly drag a discussion into a knuckle dragging session, including you chief.
Subtle but proved my point quite nicely. Thanks.
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Yeah i used to give Rusty the hump about it all the time but having seen it pieced together like this it certainly seems plausible. I dunno about onboard or not on board but i do owe Rusty an apology for all that rubbishing the notion so much when he clearly had a point, sorry Rusty!
Thanks but I don't expect an apology.
I just want to further say that when you know everything that went down, "plausible" is an understatement. Unfortunately, the lies sold better and always would make more money than the truth of just another wife involved in a murder for hire plot against her husband. It wasn't anything grand and diabolical. She tried it herself twice and failed(May 2nd 1993 and March 3rd 1994). Once she was facing an inevitable divorce and potential name removal in the will, there couldn't be another fuck up. The prenuptial agreement (that she demanded when they got married) would leave her with hardly anything. She thought SHE was going to be the star. She hired out and the third time was the charm.
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Your crusade is to make shit up and then label the people that disagree as haters. That's pathetically childish.
Why stop at millions of albums? Why not billions? That's even more positive isn't it? Shit, let's go for trillions!
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Because that's how every band - literally every other band - feels. Look up quotes from lead singers from popular bands and you will see a ton of statements saying how they owe their fans everything, how they would be nothing without their fans, etc.
http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/metallica-s-ulrich-we-don-t-owe-people-anything/
Lars is a chump that has had a battle with the fans since Napster. It only got worse when everyone criticized his horrible St Anger snare. Pricks gonna be pricks.
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You call them estimations when they're actually fabrications.
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I'm split on the silence. If Axl's disdain towards Slash runs as deep as always, he may see it as the smart thing to do to turn his back on the uproar created by his enemy. On the other hand, we'd expect Axl to blow the rumor up with a long detailed letter about how he is being persecuted by Slash. I'm still undecided.
Del James wouldn't wish Happy Birthday to Slash if Axl still hated Slash.
I follow that but it doesn't confirm a reunion. That's the subject that matters to me. I honestly don't care whether or not they kissed and made up. It doesn't affect me one bit.
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I thought Load was a good album. If you look past the mascara there are some good bluesy rockers on there.
I looked past the mascara and my friend bought the album first and after hearing it, I passed. Don't really care for a bluesy Metallica since they aren't really a bluesy band. The loss of Cliff and Lars wanting to slow down because of his limitations changed the band more than their outfits. The look was just the confirmation that they were abandoning their roots.
They did one thrash album without Cliff (...And Justice) and can we really be sure that Cliff would have been 'the rootsy'' Slash-type guy, attempting to hold them down to a thrash direction? He might have equally followed the course they began with the black album and continued with Load.
We can be sure. Cliff was the one that brought the rough against the grain attitude that the band had until all of the material from his era was used up. AJFA was their last effort at thrash and most likely contained riffs and songs from the Cliff era. I can say with almost 100% certainty that Cliff wouldn't have sold out and written empty songs for the payday that followed AJFA.
Mustaine and Cliff were the true creative members to be in Metallica during their rise and everything that made them great were the result of those two. When it comes to James' it's either A minor or E key recycled riffs and rhythms. Even the lyrics have been weaker since AJFA. James went into a beginner's comfort zone and Lars went even further complacent. In SKOM, you see a band that knows they have shifted into an empty money machine with no creativity. They even argued about whether or not to have solos because even they know it's "stock" when all of their shit sounds the same. They blame the genre when it is actually their own limitations. It was possible for them to progress without going full blown commercial but they chose the easier and more commercial route and grew stale as a result.
In a genre that grew up with bootlegs and copies of albums, they further confirmed their abandonment of those roots with attacking fans that listened to I Disappear on Napster. While there is merit to the argument against some piracy, it showed the priority being about the money and NOT the music. They were no longer about content. It was all a commodity to them by that point. The product was weak.
I was never able to get into numetal or half-assed songs.
What if album had suprise release ?
in GUNS N' ROSES - DISCUSSION & NEWS
Posted · Edited by Rustycage
You're the one making the claim about Finland. The exact number is your responsibility. You did not clarify how many times it went Platinum. If it was only once, 20,000 is all we know for sure. Max would be 39,999 obviously. If you want to inflate it, do so with something other than just throwing claims out there.
Again, 2/3 of the certifications came from shipped numbers and NOT sales. Therefore, while you want to inflate the most minimal of numbers with wild assumptions, you are ignoring that they will fall under the umbrella of those NOT SOLD in the other much larger markets. 1 extra soild in Finland will cover 1 of the million in USA that weren't sold in 2009 or however many were not sold in the UK. You can't have it both ways.
The point here is the demand for the follow up and the demand for CD was clearly not as high as the total you guys like to throw out there and that is because of the flimsy surface of those numbers.
Regarding the UK and other countries, what you can't seem to grasp is they calculate the total for their certification by shipped albums and not sales. You want it both ways. You want to act like after the supply is stocked, any additional demand will come from a new supply. That is foolish and without something(such as a x2 or x3 certification), the3 exact numbers are for you to find since you made the claim. What I've done is got the numbers to a close proximity.
BPI is included in the 2.6 million shipped albums that resulted in the 1x Platinum certification.
They are updated. Do you have one single source that CD went 2x Platinum is the USA? UK? Anywhere? The numbers are tracked for you.
Again, what you're failing to grasp is that all but 10,000 copies of the 2.6 million figure were SHIPPED albums to the main markets. Therefore, THAT is why the numbers haven't changed much. Demand hasn't overtaken the supply. Not even close.