Scream of the Butterfly

I also think he was about to say Duff but then remembered that Duff did do some drugs. He definitely wasn't about to say Izzy.

Does anybody know whether any footage exists of Slash, Duff or Steven testifying? I've always found Axl's testimony interesting to watch and would like to see more of this trial.

On 8/30/2022 at 10:34 PM, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

Not sure bout any other teachers or kids since the schools won't let you know and many parents here are against vaccinations. plenty of morons live here in Texas.

On 9/3/2022 at 10:35 PM, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

I just hope my daughter stays well. She isn't old enough to get the booster yet.  Not too many kids wearing masks and we don't know who's vaccinated and who's not?

What good would it do to know the vaccination status of each and every teacher and school kid? What would you do with that information? Assumedly prior to covid you didn't know who had been vaccinated against the flu or measles or any number of other conditions. Did it bother you then?

Admittedly, $75,000 seems rather excessive for a piece of art so heavily based on another artist's work.

Paying Del a six pack is going to the other extreme, but I think I can see Niven's point.

I've grown to dislike the whole practice of keeping pets. I think it should be abolished like slavery. The cute pictures hide the ugly truth that these animals are property at the mercy of their owners. Some pets are supposedly treated well, but even a slave that is treated well is still a slave devoid of autonomy, and it's no consolation for the many that are treated badly. In the end, they shouldn't be ours to treat one way or another.

Maybe there should be an anti-pets thread?

34 minutes ago, EvanG said:

No. Are you, SoulMonster?
Believe it or not, I happen to be 190 cm (6'3) myself and most my male friends, co-workers are my height, give or take a few cms.
The only time I am ever labelled a ''tall guy'' is when I'm abroad. Almost never in my own country. And that makes sense, seeing as so many guys here are around my height. I am not saying 190 cm is short by any means, but tall? Not really. I have a few friends and acquaintances that are 195 and over. They are considered tall for sure. So yeah, I don't know what google says about the average height here, but this is from my experience living here for several decades.

The reason you think it isn't tall is probably specifically because you are 6'3 yourself. People tend to see themselves as the measure of what is normal and average.

Kind of surprising that his height was an issue, considering rockstars must be the shortest people out there after jockeys.

He doesn't look all that fat, either. Think of Dizzy at the time.

8 hours ago, EvanG said:

Depends on where you live, I guess.

I'm pretty certain 6'3 is tall anywhere in the world.

As far as I can tell, Axl's always been open-minded and diverse when it comes to music. In general, I don't think he has changed as much as people think.

19 hours ago, Draguns said:

With that being said, something is up with Axl. He wouldn't be sleeping at the stadium if he was ok with his mental health.

Why not? I don't see how you deduce mental health issues from the mere fact that he slept at the stadium. He didn't specify why he slept there so who knows. I think people are too quick to jump into conclusions.

One thing I've noticed is that the "experts" contradict themselves quite a lot (and I notice some of the same contradictions in this thread). For example, throughout last year we were being told that it was inevitable that everyone was going to encounter the virus and that the only choice was whether to encounter it vaccinated or not. This was being used to pressure people to get vaccinated. At the same time we were being told that you need to get vaccinated not for yourself but to protect the vulnerable people among us. Yet surely if it's inevitable that everyone's going to encounter the virus, it's also inevitable that the vulnerable people are going to encounter it, so no point in getting vaccinated to protect the vulnerable.

Very few of us are doing everything we can to minimize the risk of infections (or other risks in life), which is something to think about before getting on your high horse. It could be that the unvaccinated person practises more social distancing than the vaccinated person and is much less of a risk to other people. You would need to look at the bigger picture to know which person is more selfish of the two.

On 1/27/2022 at 11:01 PM, Homefuck said:

I've been on an Albert Camus binge recently. I recommend all his work but especially "the stranger". Genius.

Genius is right. I've only read The Plague, but plan to read some of his other works.

3 hours ago, Ace Spade said:

That's another photoshopped image. As far as we know, Axl and Kurt never hung out together and there are no pictures of the two together. Kurt went out of his way to avoid Axl.

1 hour ago, action said:

what is fascinating to me is, when it comes to things like corona, people demand "proof", "sources", and "peer reviewed" scientific articles and data for the right to even begin discussing the subject

but when it comes to a woman accusing a man, opinions are formed, the man is fired, way before even the first piece of evidence is shown. When it is then objected, that there is no proof, then the woke crowd (the same crowd who demands scientific evidence when it comes to corona) will ridicule that away, claiming there is no proof needed, because "obviously, women are the weaker side".

you would almost think, a fair bit of hypocrisy is at display

Some people are quick to believe women without asking for proof, but then others are equally quick to accuse women of lying without any proof and despite the fact that she was there, you weren't.

You could play it safe and sit on the fence at all times to avoid being wrong, but then you are denying your support from people who have been abused as well as from people who have been falsely accused, so it's not the perfect approach either.

Personally, if somebody tells me they have been abused, I don't feel right about demanding for proof that understandably is often impossible to come up with even if the person is not lying. I would have to at least cautiously believe the person unless I get a proper reason not to.

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

That's a good one, ''it's not pornography, officer, it's art''. Nevertheless, he showed those pictures to children, so even if it is an art book, why is an adult showing pictures of naked people to children? But I bet the diehard MJ fans find a way to rationalize that too.

I'm not aware of what pictures if any he showed to children, but I wouldn't think it wrong to allow children to see art that depicts nudity (unless it's something totally twisted and/or sexualised).

The book I had in mind used to be available on regular bookstores (perhaps still is) with positive reviews. It wasn't considered pornographic by the officials or else I assume Jackson would have been charged for possession of child pornography.

I'm still fully unvaccinated and still haven't experienced any sign of this disease. Either I've managed to avoid it altogether or I've had it so mild/symptomless that I didn't know I had it. I wasn't certain of it at the time, but I'm now quite confident that not getting vaccinated last year was the right decision for me.

On 5/31/2022 at 7:14 AM, Ace Spade said:

Is that a real pic of Kurt and Axl hanging out together at a club?

No.

7 hours ago, EvanG said:

Apparently he did.

Apparently he had some vintage art books with naked pictures of children, but none of it was concidered child pornography. From what I've seen of these books, it looks like the sort of material that a lot of people might enjoy innocently, but it's also easy to see how a pedophile might enjoy the same material for different reasons. So, as with a lot of things concerning MJ, an innocent explanation is possible but so is a sinister one.

3 hours ago, Pele said:

And if you want a laugh, look at the little toy sculpture this guy sold him to allow him to 'time travel'. (Rose mentioned at 19mins in)

 

"... one in particular in Malibu, who I won't mention by name, has one beside his bed, and he's a world-famous rockstar ..."

lol Who could that be?

On 1/24/2022 at 5:36 PM, DurhamGirl said:

The world has become more dangerous place than ever and as a consequence various groups would like us to be distracted away from their plans.  Axl is known to be left wing politically along with being famous this may be seen as dangerous to certain political factions, it may be advantagous to them to have some female come out with allegations such as this.  This may seem far fetched, I would of thought so a couple of years ago not now.  So I am not going to bother myself with this woman or anyone else

Well, that's some master planning on the part of these "political factions" if they planned ahead for this all the way from 1985/1986, which is when the rape allegation first appeared (before Axl or GNR were even famous).

Never mind that the woman behind the allegation is herself also left wing, even by the standards of the Democratic Party, and supports Bernie Sanders.

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Oh well, I don't watch TED videos. But still, this is only one case among millions and it has no similarities to our case. The people in the video talked and reconciled in private first and then they decided together to share their story. The case we're discussing is a woman calling out someone in public as a rapist and (supposing that all she says is true, which you obviously believe) the man admitting it in public and apologizing.

As I said earlier I agree it's unlikely that Axl's going to come out and admit to it or apologize. Just wanted to point out that generally speaking it isn't an entirely unprecedented thing to happen. Plus I think the video is well worth watching in its own right so didn't want to waste an opportunity to share it. Kobe Bryant is another person that comes to mind who publicly apologized to his victim.

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

People who have talked about it: Slash, Duff, Vicky Hamilton, Raz Cue's brother (as quoted by Raz Cue).

According to Vicky, Axl said to her, "It was stupid, involving a girl... It won't happen again." An odd thing for an innocent man to say. Other than that everything she heard about the incident was hearsay.

Raz had this to say: "Are you familiar with the #littlemichellelives thing going around? We all knew Michelle was fifteen. Hell, she barely looked her age. Forcible or statutory, you still got a rape. We can all agree that there are different, conflicting, versions of what transpired in December 1985. But every version has a fifteen-year-old girl getting tossed naked from your band’s rehearsal studio into a filthy alley, where she was left shaking, sobbing and wailing from the utter brutality inflicted by your singer, Axl Rose. Does a “good dude” treat another human being like this? Do the other “good dudes” help hide the perpetrator of crimes against a child, then aid in a coverup so that everyone’s dreams of becoming rock stars won’t get smashed like windshields in a riot? How would your life have changed if your world class singer was thrown in to the pokey, before GNR signed a recording contract?"

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

It was spiritual time travelling. She visited her 15-old self. When she was 15 she had felt one of her witch goddesses comforting her, but years later she spiritually travelled back and realized she had been comforted by her older self from the future.

I think it's pretty common for people who have been abused as children (or even as adults) to have comforting visions such as this and even a therapist might encourage such visualizing.

Witchcraft has gained a lot of popularity in recent years and it doesn't always involve any actual belief in the supernatural. Even when it does I'd say it's generally more down to earth or at least no wackier than mainstream religions. I wouldn't dismiss a person on the basis that they identify as a witch any more than I would dismiss a person on the basis that they identify as Christian or Muslim.

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Yes, it's a story known for years and by some accounts it involved a girl getting thrown out naked, but they all said there was no rape, although there may have been sex.

Who all said there was no rape? Slash and Duff?

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

A public admission and apology? Could this ever happen, supposing her story is true? We're not talking about something vague here, like "Yeah, I wasn't too kind with women, I apologize"; we're talking about rape. Who would publicly admit committing rape, even without being in danger of being prosecuted, and who would admit aiding a rapist? I don't think there is a precedent of anyone having done that. So, it's either extremely naive of her to expect/hope for something like that (again, supposing for a minute that her story is true), or her saying that that's what she wants is kind of a smokescreen for something else.

12 hours ago, Oldest Goat said:

"I can't allow myself to believe this isn't true." - Someone with zero objectivity to put it politely.

Not really a post or a person I should dignify with an answer, but what the hell.

You have a strange concept of objectivity if you think the fact that I don't allow myself to believe that something isn't true just because I'd like it to not be true means I have zero objectivity.

Another interesting episode.