RONIN

I hope he gets a chance to play Civil War -- that would be a great full circle moment.

55 minutes ago, Caraibes said:

Fortus Will be all over the place on the next records. Not record, but records.

It's a well known fact he has written tons of guitar riffs, solos, lead Guitar parts, rythm, licks ans even songs. Much more than anybody else.

Fortus has been in the band for 15 fucking years and Axl, Slash and Duff wanted him to be part of this adventure. 

The Fortus/Slash combo is the future of Guns N' Roses on Guitar for the next 20 years. 

As I Said, Richard is the Ronnie Wood of Guns N' Roses. He will be an absolute KEY MEMBER until the end. 

The haters (Tom-Ass hole) and the other clowns should follow another band because Richard is there for still a very long time.

"You are FORTUS or against us!" (Axl Rose)

 

 

 

You are insane.

It won't happen for one reason:

"AXL POSE DRESSING ROOM REQUIREMENTS " 

8 hours ago, Original GNR said:

I don't think Izzy is underrated. Certainly not by fans like us. To the wider public he may be, but that's probably more to do with the fact that they don't know him. Slash and Axl were always the public face of the band. 

Any knowledgeable GnR fan knows how important Izzy was to their songwriting and the overall feel of the band. 

He has a lot of detractors as you'll see in this thread.  My original post supporting Izzy has only a few more likes than a post saying that he's overrated and how "it's disgusting that fans think he's a genius". Nu fans 

21 minutes ago, JustanUrchin said:

You mean equity share, I assume?  The original partnership dissolved in ’91 when Izzy sold his equity subsequent to Adler’s firing.  A partnership between the other three continued throughout the Axl Rose Touring Band decades.  The question is whether that partnership was dissolved in favor of a new PA prior to the threeunion or if the terms of the longstanding PA were modified.  In any event, three things are clear:

1.  A PA exists, be it new or modified.  Recent Exhibit:  Opie Skjerseth, July 26, 2016, “all three of them” decided on touring matters.  A partnership is a business entity.  Staging is enormous overhead.  This critical biz decision would not have been made collectively if it weren’t a partnership.

2.  GnR is not Axl’s band.  The few but vocal Axl Rose Touring Band fans continue to push this myth.  Slash and Duff choosing not to continue publishing new music and touring with Axl did not dissolve the partnership.  Hence the litigation over licensing, merchandising, and royalties.  Axl wrestled the brand (band) name from the other two partners, and controlled new content and band (non)direction once the other two finally made the sensible decision to exit.  The result was 15 songs in 25 years and a spot on Wikipedia’s worst albums of all time.

3.  Izzy’s replacement is 49 years old and has zero known contributions to the rock music world—not a single riff or solo.  Why would Izzy’s replacement be offered an equity share?  He has never written/published a riff or solo known to the rock world in 49 years.  Izzy’s replacement has sustained himself financially for two decades as a hired hand playing material written by Slash and Izzy while also playing techno rock, pop rock, and “hip hop” with artists like Nsync and Rihanna.   If Izzy were in a grave, he’d been turning in it.

Nailed it. Maybe Fortus will set the rock world on fire at the spry age of 49. You never know 

My understanding of the partnership between Axl, Slash, and Duff (correct me if I'm wrong please) -- the original partnership was modified after Izzy left (I'm assuming the other 3 bought him out essentially and absorbed his % to divide amongst themselves). Izzy was guaranteed a % of profits from GnR until the late 90's. Unfortunately for Izzy, GnR didn't release shit after he left. After '97 or '98, Izzy is cut out completely from profit sharing (I assume he still gets publishing royalties like Adler).

This modified partnership was rendered defunct by Axl who created a new GnR entity legally and left the original partnership at the end of 1995. This kills the old band symbolically and legally. Duff and Slash are essentially demoted to hired hands at this point and Axl tries to convince them to sign on as salaried employees into the new partnership. Duff signs on and Slash toys with the idea before ultimately refusing in '96. Duff leaves this partnership in the summer of '97. End of GnR and the original partnership is dead.

I'm not a lawyer, but my guess is they somehow legally resuscitated the original partnership (The one Axl left in '95) -- this partnership makes the three founding members (Duff, Axl, Slash) fully in control of the band. I'm guessing Axl has legal rights to the name and "nu band" (probably a separate legal entity).

If you look at the original press releases for the NITL tour, iirc they refer to Axl as the band founder and Duff and Slash as original members -- that can't be a mistake and I assume Axl and GnR management worded it that way on purpose. To the layman, it still seems like Axl's band but Duff and Slash are included as equal partners in profit sharing. 

50 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Well yeah, rumour says he's also gonna be playing bass, drums and keyboards. The only reason Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Melissa and Frank are in the band is because Richard the almighty can't play it all live...

Don't forget, Richard will be taking over singing duties from Axl as well on the next record. Slash, Axl, etc will just be "additional musicians" like Matt Sorum.

On 8/6/2016 at 6:40 AM, Kenan said:

The guy is playing and enjoying it. It's rock n' roll. No need to obsess about him, how he plays, what he wants, if he is 'in the shadow' of this or that..it's all in your mind. Just relax and enjoy it for what it is. It's music, it's supposed to be fun and I'm glad Richard doesn't give a flying fuck and does what he enjoys and what suits him the most.

Fair enough and I can get behind that. No one is obsessing here about Fortus and his playing -- read the OP's post -- he says that the Slash/Fortus combo is the best in the world right now and that Fortus should be included in the partnership. With a thread like that, it's only fair game to expect people who don't agree to respond accordingly. Frankly the idea of including Fortus in the partnership is absurd and outrageous.

15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I've got the whole Atlantic City 89 on dvd bootleg. Good show. Clapton and John Lee Hooker also guest.

At 5:49, does it look like Keith Richards signaling them to get off stage ? 

He did say this once:

Guns N’ Roses: "I admire their guts. But too much posing. Their look; it's like there's one out of this band, one looks like Jimmy, one looks like Ronnie. Too much copycat, too much posing for me."

http://www.nme.com/photos/the-razor-tongue-of-keith-richards--17-artists-he-s-slammed-from-david-bowie-to-oasis/390242#WKKBiwEygpPoPd8k.99

6 hours ago, ironmt said:

The guy Is far from lazy. As a matter of fact almost everyone that has worked with him  has complimented him on his exceptional work ethic. You also do not drip buckets of sweat for 3 hours every other night If you are "lazy". As far as him being an obsessive perfectionist, well that Is another story and you may be on to something.

A guy that records 1 album after 15 years is not what anyone would call prolific. It'll be nearly 10 years since Chinese Democracy dropped in a year and a half. His output is even worse than Michael Jackson when he was alive. MJ was also infamous for tinkering in the studio and never releasing shit. 

Axl is a professional (for the most part anyway) and he gives 100% when he's touring. The problem is that he is notorious for not showing up to band rehearsals and jamming songs with his band. This is the opposite of having a good work ethic. It also explains why 90% of the old and nu band quit -- the dude never did shit with any of the work they submitted to him. Duff left because he was sick of jamming in the studio alone. Finck quit because he was sick of working on Instrumental #42. Buckethead quit because the band hadn't released anything in the 3 years he had been there. Josh Freese quit because after 2 years he felt Axl was nowhere near releasing anything and he didn't want to wait around forever. There is a pattern emerging here.

Maybe the process of putting together music is difficult for Axl because he doesn't enjoy making new music. It's definitely a plausible explanation for why it takes decades to get any new music from this band.

14 hours ago, maynard said:

He is actually overrated. The way people portray him as some kind of genius is disgusting. He was great in GNR. His solo carreer is awful, a bunch of Stones ripoffs. When he joined Axl's band also called GNR for financial reasons, he showed a lack of showmanship, his guitar was clearly unplugged and he seemed lost on faster songs like Nightrain (that's from 2006 if I'm not mistaken). He wrote some great songs with GNR and that's it. His solo songs bore me to death.

Well, if you agree that he did great work in GnR, then he's probably a genius because his work endures 30 years later. The band is playing his songs in sold out stadiums right now. If Izzy did nothing beyond GnR, he'd still be a legend. I actually find it disgusting how nu fans (not you in particular), underrate Izzy's contributions to legitimize whichever lame ass replacement is hired at the moment.

I'm not as familiar with his solo work, so I can't speak to that but I am not the biggest fan of any of the solo work of the original band including the redhead. They are not as good apart as they are together.

Has Axl's voice ever been better live than on Salt of the Earth? I love this era of GnR.

Bohemian Rhapsody guest appearance:

Is it me or does the live version of Catcher sound closer to the Brian May demo than the final album version?

21 hours ago, jayrod737 said:

but if axl wanted it out in 99 and the studio sent it back, who's to say Axl wasn't just messing with them for the next 9 years purposely wasting their money? Cmon, its Axl. "You don't like my shit!?!? Guess I'll have to develop a bad obsession on this and jump the shark!"

I'd buy that if he didn't try the same thing on Illusions. Izzy turned in some of his demos nearly 2 years prior to them getting vocals from Axl. The dude is lazy and an obsessive perfectionist -- those things seem like inherent contradictions but it explains why he has a hard time finishing anything. 

With that said, ofcourse Axl was messing with Interscope -- probably because he had no idea what he wanted to do and was trying to stall for more time. He seemed a lot less confident during the CD years without Izzy, Duff and Slash backing him up. It's only in hindsight that all of this becomes even more apparent. His all-star replacement team of Bucket, Stinson, Finck etc failed to inspire him in the same way that the originals did.

On 8/4/2016 at 0:38 PM, StrangerInThisTown said:

Interesting to speculate when that offer was. Obviously before Fortus joined GNR, so maybe he was offered the spot of rhythm for VR? Might have been Snakepit aswell, has to be one of the 2

He was offered a chance to play the bongos in VR. Axl forced Dizzy to turn down the gig. 

21 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

World class songwriter? definitely! world class guitar player? good, but not word class. Izzy, Slash, Duff are not world class on their own, together they are. 

Also! This bullshit about "he's a good session musician" as if being a session musician is a bad thing. Being a session musician means you're able to play authentically in a style or a number of styles and you're a great player that people want to work with. You don't just apply for the job, you practice like all the other musicians, play shitty clubs etc. eventually people hear about you and want you on their records... meaning he and all the other session players that get shit on, are definitely deserving of their gigs.

Fortus may not be "world class", but he is a great player... and no amount of mygnr begrudging can change that. He's tight as it gets and he plays all the parts with the proper attitude (yeh I know you hate his nightrain solo... moving on!).

Dude, you're missing the point. Calling Fortus a session player is not a cheap shot -- the guy has next to nothing in writing credits, he's an axe for hire. Where are the creative contributions from him?

His imprint on CD is almost negligible -- completely blown off the map by Buckethead and Finck. Clearly Axl felt the same given how much more prominent those two are on the album compared to Fortus.  It is what it is. Chinese Democracy's guitar heroes are Bucket and Finck.

What Fortus has done with Guns N Roses is a textbook definition of a session/journeyman player. Fortus was in the band for 18 years and has almost nothing to really show for it. That's just the reality of the situation.

25 minutes ago, Caraibes said:

Mullethead, i've been a GN'R fan for more than 25 years.

I never cared about "NuGuns" as you say, I just cared about Axl and Richard Fortus.

I liked Brain Mantia a lot also, fantastic drummer.

 

 

 

 

What is there to care about though? He's written next to nothing. Even Paul Huge and West Arkeen have contributed more. Forget Izzy or even Finck, can he even write better than Paul Huge?

Is it his guitar playing? Is he really all that special compared to giants like Slash, Buckethead and Bumblefoot?

Can he drink as much beer as Duff?

If you like him for his live performances, that's cool though. I find him really awkward and distracting on stage with the non-stop guitar punching and orgasm faces but I could see that appealing to some people.

21 hours ago, Kenan said:

Richard Fortus is a talented guitar player but he has one serious problem and that is, he is NOT Izzy Stradlin.

Since Richard Fortus is NOT Izzy Stradlin, he should NOT be showboating like he does all the time. He should be still, barely moving and his guitar should be barely audible.

Also, Richard Fortus, NOT being Izzy Stradlin, should not play solos at all, maybe one single solo should be allowed and that's it.

Richard Fortus, NOT being Izzy Stradlin, should not, in any way of form show his talent on stage because if he does, that would be very inapropriate for all those sensitive souls that are still going through emotional suffering and hardships for not seeing Izzy Stradlin being part of this reunion.

I would also suggest Richard Fortus does something to his appearance i.e. image. Maybe he should dye his hair blonde, cut it really short and maybe do a plastic surgery or something, because the way he is right now, he kinda resembles Izzy Stradlin and since we have already established that Richard Fortus is NOT Izzy Stradlin, looking like Izzy Stradlin would be inappropriate (to say the least!).

So, if he'd manage to sort out the minor issues outlined above, I think he would be a pretty good fit for Guns N' Roses.

Frank Ferrer is also a very talented drummer but he has one ser.. Oh sorry, wrong thread.

 

I enjoyed the sarcasm. You nailed it. Richard Fortus is not Izzy Stradlin'. Therefore he does not belong in guns n roses. If he takes Izzy's place, then comparisons should be fair game. 

There's also the elephant in the room: Stradlin' was a tasteful player. He did exactly what was necessary to bring out the best in Slash. He worked in the interest of the songs. Rarely do you see Izzy showboat with guitar wank or punch his guitar every 15 seconds. That's a huge part of why Izzy is so well regarded. 

Fortus is trying to define himself in the shadow of Saul from Pasadena. Therein lies the rub. He's not working in the best interest of the song nor is his playing bringing out the best in Slash. Like Frank, he just wanks off and improvises much to the detriment of the song. 

But hey, if you love what he does, more power to you.

Fortus in the partnership? You want Fortus to get publishing royalties when Izzy still can't get his fair share? How does this make any sense? What has Fortus contributed to the band to get these privileges?

If you're talking about Chinese Democracy royalties (lol) -- shouldn't Mr. Buckethead and maybe Finck have more legitimacy for it?

With all due respect, I have a hard time understanding where the Fortus groupies are coming from. Even if you liked the nu band, objectively speaking, Mr. Buckethead and Bumblefoot were light years beyond him ability wise and as musicians. Buckethead wrote amazing riffs. Finck was a much more interesting guitarist than Fortus as well.

The only person he stacks up to is Paul Huge, and even Paul has better writing credits than Fortus.

59 minutes ago, Silent Jay said:

Slash has played with plenty of mediocre musicians outside of GnR. A Fortus endorsement from him doesn't really carry a lot of weight. Keep in mind that Fortus has the unenviable task of replacing a world class musician like Izzy. That's why some of us are more critical.

7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

The problem with Illusion is a lack of cohesion. Looking for a 'best' album usually involves looking for the most cohesive, most perfect, set of songs, and there is no doubt that Appetite is far more consistent than the two Illusions, even individually. Look at the end of Illusion 2. You go from 'Estranged' and 'You Could Be Mine' then the album sort of ends anticlimactically with a pointless alternative lyrics version of a song previously heard, then some of the most awful sounding wretched noise ever placed on an album.

'You Could Be Mine' always struck me as an odd late song also - it would make the ideal opener, a much better opener than Civil War. Estranged should have ended proceedings. You then have all these iffy songs like Get in the Ring and Shotgun Blues in the middle - the album is really uneven.

Are you of the opinion that Illusions (regardless of their inconsistency) contain some of the band's greatest work or do you consider the illusion songs to be inferior to appetite songs? 

There are many Appetite purists here who would even consider the illusion masterpieces like locomotive and coma to be a downgrade from AFD.