Billsfan

6 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

 

Why should someone that doesn't own something be entitled to as big a share of it's profits as someone who does? 

Shouldn't Izzy at least have to pay back everything he was given in return for his share of the name over the years if he wants "equal loot" again?

 

Already answered that. This case isn't the "we owned a family business and my brother quit" scenario.

If Izzy did that then Axl should pay us back for the years wasted and missed opportunities with Chinese

11 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

1) I don't disagree with his reasons for leaving. I get it, and good for him. But the way he went about leaving the band was to request a buyout settlement. It doesn't matter why he wanted to be bought out, what matters is that he was bought out. 

2) You're putting too much thought into. When Izzy wanted out he wanted out all together. He wanted to wash his hands of GNR all together. Slash and Duff didn't, and they found against and with Axl in court numerous times over the years managing the brand. Now that they're going to get a big pay day for that work, Izzy wants the same pay day, having done none of the work. 

3) I don't think there's anything about Izzy's history since 1990 to suggest he'd be all in for a tour this big, and this long. I don't know for a fact he isn't, but it'd be uncharacteristic. Maybe he'd be willing to do it if it was "equal loot" but it's not, and it shouldn't be, so he won't.

 

Holy crap you're still trying

1 - Sure he was bought out. That was then, this is now. Slash and Duff gave up their right to the name, just not to the extent of old school GNR that Izzy did. When they came back, none of it seemed to matter anymore, did it? Therefore, the clean slate is in effect. Izzy deserved the same clean slate.

2 - I'm not putting too much thought. I'm providing facts for a case to have Izzy there. You just don't like that because it doesn't help for the purpose of devil's advocacy. And now this point, being presented by you, is that Slash and Duff deserve it over Izzy because they fought Axl in court for years. So because they fought Axl every step of the way, from giving you what YOU wanted (easy assumption to make with your avatar), they are more deserving than Izzy??!! So because Izzy didn't want to fight, didn't care to fight, even though he wasn't a part of it either, because he didn't want to risk his legal name, he's not as deserving?! That's crazy logic. They wouldn't have had the success they did off the material they did without Izzy and that's just too tough of a point to argue. It conquers a lot of points, really. And hell, Axl was more sympathetic to Izzy in 2006 over the other two, probably because he wasn't trying to stop him from doing what he wanted to do with the GNR name. But suddenly, he's a worse guy just like that?! More crazy logic.

3- Yes there is. Izzy said in an interview he wanted to be a part of it. Marc Canter said he wanted to be a part of it. Maybe the extent wasn't spelled out but once again, It's crazy for anyone to assume they're going to get the same cut of the loot to just show up whenever the hell they want. Izzy isn't that crazy. He deserves his cut of the loot. 75% of appetite, lies, and the illusions material wouldn't have existed without him.

1 minute ago, Modano09 said:

1) It doesn't matter why he wanted out. At all. He wanted out, he wanted to be bought out, and he was. 

2) Slash and Duff left the band but didn't sell their stake in it to Axl. That's the key to this whole thing that people like you just refuse to acknowledge.  

3) And Izzy was asked to be part of the REUNION. He wouldn't do it unless he got "equal loot" that he's not entitled to. 

4) Izzy's paid royalties for his song writing on Appetite. Nobody's denied him that. 

 

1- Put yourself in his shoes and think without bias. What would you have done? Or even, have you ever met anyone with a serious drug addiction? Maybe you can't answer that...? Idk, I think leaving those guys was the right call at that time since he's still alive, and sober.

2 - I do acknowledge that. The ignorant just choose not to deal with what I'm trying to prove. Just because they chose a different route, doesn't make them smarter or dumber than Izzy really. Maybe in retrospect that was the smarter thing to do, maybe Izzy knew that, maybe he didn't. Maybe survival was too important t care. Ever consider that little nugget? BTW, in retrospect, it was probably dumb of Slash and Duff to sell the rights to the use of the name Guns N Roses to Axl. Everybody makes mistakes. Clean Slate.

3 - Izzy was asked to make guest appearances. Izzy doesn't want to make guest appearances, Izzy wants to be in this 100%. He's not dumb enough to ask for an "equal loot" then show up whenever the hell he wants. "Hey Slash, Duff, Axl. I want the same pay you're getting for the Houston show. 4 ways. Is that cool? Great! I'll let you know then if and when I feel like showing up". Come on, Izzy would be out of his mind to think that way.

4 - And no one's going to. Moot point.

In Conclusion: Izzy should be involved. I do like Richard, but his involvement, or lacktherof, should have been decided based on what Izzy wanted to do FIRST.

Thank god for free stream youtube!

Thanks for enabling me to be cheap ya'll!

17 minutes ago, Juventino said:

And what's most frustrating of all about the situation (forget loot and who did what in the past for a minute because if it were all about who abandoned who and this guy wanted to leave Velvet Revolver and that guy is a cancer then 3/5 wouldn't be back playing in 2016-17) is that all five guys are alive and, relatively, healthy. They can all play. If it were a case of one being dead when this date came along the situation would be different.

While they've all had their issues you have five guys who can come together to celebrate such an occasion. Ideally they'd be together for the entire tour. But at least this night you would hope the bullshit could subside and a legendary album and a legendary quintet could be honoured. Because it's clear they can work something out as Adler last year showed. Leave egos at the door.

After their years of hard living they had no bloody right to all still be alive! Yet here they are and two guys are twiddling their thumbs, barring a massive surprise, because of bullshit.

Life is just too short. Chris Cornell is dead. Chester Bennington died today and those are the two most recent, out of many, many, many big name musicians weve lost over the last 3-4 years. Just as you've said, it's a miracle all 5 are alive today and still playing well. And we can't get all 5 on stage for one freaking song because the selfish rich can't sacrifice a few pennies to give the fans what they want, and complete what they started for themselves.

Give me a break.

9 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

Here's a question nobody seems to be able to answer - why should Izzy be able to sell his share in the band, and be paid a large sum of money for it, and then down the line, be entitled to a large sum of money as if he still owns it? 

 

How about the same answer, that I've given over and over, that people like you just happen to ignore:

- Can you really blame him for selling his share? He had to get out of it for too many reasons. 1 was the lawsuits with his name and likeness attached to it, which is a good enough reason alone. But the fact was, he had to quit for survival. Izzy was sober, Slash, Duff, Matt, and Dizzy weren't. He couldn't hang around them between/before shows, it could have triggered him and he might not be alive today. And his only boy in his corner, good uncle billy bailey, was too busy being 3 hours late to that show. But I'd bet you can forgive Axl for that right?

- Slash and Duff are getting a large sum and they quit on Axl too, if you think about it. But, they're important enough to get paid their share. Izzy is just as important.

- This is a REUNION. Once the band acknowledged that, all bets were off. It was a clean slate for Axl, Slash and Duff. It should have been the same for Izzy.

- Not going to go into huge details but, feel free to read a few osts before mine for @kris post. 9 out of 12 tracks from Appetite, wouldn't have existd without any bit from very little to very large contribution of writing, choreographing, and creating the music we've come to know and love. He had just as significant of an influence on lies and the illusions records, aka , the GNR that the fans care about. And don't even think about discussing Chinese Democracy because I bought that album the day it came out, I love the album, and forever will. But that's an Axl Era GNR, this is different.

I could go on and on but the reality is, Izzy should be in this band and it's bullshit that he isn't.

3 minutes ago, Rickodez said:

This is just a ''no'', not a ''no, they will not be there'', she was convenient and smartly vague, GnR fans really like to overreact everything. For me, she just said the hashtags didn't mean anything special, she didn't confirmed, neither unconfirmed anything.

Good point. Not getting my hopes up but, this is an argument I actually like. If you think abut it, they never advertised Steven Axl has basially said "Izzy does what Izzy does, you never know" so, I don't thnk they would ever advertise to the two because theyre the two without an ironclad contract that could fall off. Who knows..

7 minutes ago, downliner said:

Half is an understatement

The Big Three (Appetite songs not co-written by Izzy)

We really all need more likes  

3 out of 12, not by Izzy. Game, set, match. So 75% of the most iconic debut rock album of all time, wouldn't exist without aa guy left out of this cash grab.

Well, can't argue facts

3 hours ago, AncientEvil80 said:

No, fuck that. Either have a special show, or just fuck off and keep doing your NITL circus shitshow... 

Listen, I was happy to hear about Axl rekindling the relationship with Slash and Duff and playing on stage together again. All good, old brothers. What can I say, fantastic!

But this shitshow has gone too far if they don't have Izzy and Steven playing later on.

Yea, it's just a band, it's just music. But what's the difference between this and religion? Or politics? Same stuff. 

 

Couldn't agree more. Well said.

This shitshow of a "reunion" could have at least been justified by this "band" releasing new music...if they did, I think you'd see more people making a case that an AFD5 reunion would be backpeddling and they'd be regressing. But they're not doing that, instead Slash Duff and Axl are cash grabbing over entitlement. Sad, really

2 hours ago, Kris_1989 said:

Serious question for those of you that dislike Izzy so strongly:

Hypothetically, if Izzy showed up tonight would you actually be disappointed? Or is all of this shit talking a front?

I can't help but feel like this is all an act with some of you. Like some weird coping mechanism or something. It's like you're all thinking, "well, we're stuck with the hired hands so let's vilify the other two to make myself feel better about the situation"...

Bottom line is Izzy co-wrote the songs that we all love so much. The same songs that had such an impact on our lives that we're still on a forum 30 years later talking about them. Without Izzy, you wouldn't have half of the songs being played tonight.

With that said, GNR isn't and never will be just ONE musicians creation. It was and always will be FIVE guys. Axl, Duff, Izzy, Slash & Steven. How can you claim to be a fan of this band and at the same time never wish to see ALL of the musicians that helped create those songs play together again??

It just doesn't make sense to me.

Out of likes. Perfect post.

I think for a lot of us, the current lineup/situation with the band would be a lot easier if Izzy straight out said he just doesn't want to tour stadiums. The fact that he's been left out and expected to just guest in a reunion of something he helped make, that wouldnt't have been jack sh*t without him, is bullsh*t. It just is. Steven I mean hey, I get it. He's too much of a risk to be the only drummer, but even he got left high and dry.

Ridiculous.

14 minutes ago, Darkenchantress said:

"I hate Izzy" this forum never ceases to surprise me. 

Welcome to 2017. And the internet. Where manic depressive morons argue, for the sake of arguing. I guess things are too simple when we all get along

#WheresIzzy

So...this show's gonna suck probably

On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 8:19 AM, DieselDaisy said:

The Spaghetti Incident Part 2 with The Seeker, Black Hole Sun, Rosie etc - all the nefarious covers.

With the amount of covers this "band" does we'll probably get a double album

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 1:57 PM, Tom-Ass said:

Pretty sure they would also like to collaborate with Steven, Izzy, Matt or Gilby while doing it too..

I'd be willing to bet that Slash and Duff wouldn't mind working with Fortus. I think Frank is the one that's kinda meh, even Fortus admitted that they had to work hard to adjust to Frank and he kinda of suggested Frank sucks so, I'd bet they'd take Adler and Sorum over Frank if they could. Izzy sure, Gilby I disagree on. I think it's wishful thinking on your part, they just haven't worked with him much at all over the years. I think Axl took a bigger hit for outing Gilby when the others duck him just as bad.

3 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

You explained it with the right terms but in this case there is no concrete evidence so your explanation is useless.

Please show me a concrete evidence that Slash told Beta that Axl had "won".

Well, if you actually read what I posted, I never said I had concrete evidence that Slash told Beta Axl had "Won". Didn't even realize you were so triggered over that. Amazing too that you got that out of what I said

Read what I actually typed please,  I said if I get two different sides to a story, one coming from someone intoxicated, I might not take that person as seriously. I might be more willing to buy into the sober person. I think Slash could have said that but hey, we say all kinds f things, especially stuff we don't mean, when we're not in the proper state of mind. I think it's completely conceivable to believe that Slash was intoxicated and probably said stuff that he didn't mean. You think he's immune to that because he's not human and some mythical god or...?

56 minutes ago, Gibson_Guy87 said:

So is the concert going to be like a regular show length or is it going to be like the Troubadour where it was just under two hours?

Doesn't sound like anyone's sure. I'm still trying to figure out what time they hit the stage thursday

11 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

A fact is a fact. There is no space, no room for other possibilities. If you don't see these possibilities in this case you may be biased but they are there no matter how hard you want to believe they're not. 

Either that or you don't know the meaning of "fact".

I know what a fact is, that's why I explained it to you. I'm just confused as to what the hell you're even trying to argue about

48 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

You're entitled to your opinion of course. I just don't like it when people call something a fact when it's just an assumption, an opinion or whatever. 

Well an opinion based off of concrete evidence is how you develop a fact. If that troubles you or anyone then I feel bad for ya but realistically, some just don't like the truth

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 3:30 AM, Free Bird said:

Lol really? That's your source? An articel from blabbermouth written conspicuously partial like it's composed by MSL? I have another source that claims otherwise. 

Marc is clearly making assumptions and he says so. So no facts either. 

I don't think it's that hard to keep staying to the facts and to don't act like something I wanna to be true is true at all.

In this particular case nobody knows what happend except for Slash, Axl, Perla, and Beta. It's possible that even Axl doesn't know what happened if Beta didn't tell him the truth just "to protect" him. 

Good point. But to be fair, it's just as tough, if not tougher, to take Slash POV seriously. If I get two sides to a story, and one of them was from somebody intoxicated, who am I more likely to believe. If Marc himself can admit that lash isn't the most standup guy I can take that for how he really is and that's fine...

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 1:26 PM, username said:

It kind of made me feel awkward. It's such a spiteful song that's very much inspired by Axl and Slash's conflict. The "Shut up and sing" line is a direct reference to what a bandmember (I think Slash?) said to Axl. And it just kind of feel weird to me watching Axl sing that song and particularly that line while standing next to Slash. I like the current version of the song better than the album version, but still that was kind of weird. Did anybody else notice that? 

Ax's band, Axl's call

Same set+Same lineup= The Same show.

Just basic math. After awhile, it gets boring but everybody's different on getting to that point

Idk if Axl would have just done ACDC and said screw it to GNR... I mean, they only did a European leg and an American leg. Neither lasted that long, really. And even though ACDC and Axl have let their feelings be known as to what they want out of each other long term, it's all belief, desire, and really, speculation until it actually comes to fruition. Could just even be simple good PR to show that Axl/DC are on great terms regardless of how it goes but, that's speculation as well. Point is, I would like to think reuniting with Slash and Duff would have happened no matter what but who knows...

Tough question really because it's kind if like asking what if Aunt Mary had balls...?

Really stupid question but like, what time does the show on Thursday actually start?

Wow... we're really running out of things to talk about, aren't we?

Considering Slash and Duff are making plenty of $$$, I doubt they would even dare disagree with Axl until this tour cycle ends. It isn't worth missing out on the cash

4 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

What I mean is, to the general public and even a lot of us, they already missed their chance to capitalize on maximum excitement. If the AFD5 decided to do a tour or even a show, yeah, I'd think it was cool and I'd be excited. I'd even be excited to go if I could. However, it won't be nearly the excitement levels I was at when this whole thing kicked off last April. To see Slash and Axl, and even Duff in the same band again for the first time after everything this fan base has endured was incredible. It wasn't the whole band, but it was enough to make it feel like the "big reunion" we all wanted. If the whole band finally reunited now, it'd be great, but it'd still feel like everything was a wasted opportunity and it'd be kind of anticlimactic. It'd arrive as a whimper instead of a bang, since to most people, the band already did reunite.

So yeah, going and being excited is different than being hyped into the high heavens, ya know?

I get it but I still don't completely agree. I mean, I agree that getting the big 3 to start the tour was exciting but that was just because they weren't saying much so, we didn't know what to expect. A lot of people in here, at that time, thought the idea of Slash and Duff paying GNR songs to be completely crazy to consider, then it happened. The reason seeing Slash and Axl, not so much Duff, on stage together was what it was for the general public. The thought of those two being on stage was intensified for fans like you and me, because we BOTH, like pretty much every poster/mod/fan in here and the world, never believed that alone was possible. We never thought Axl and Slash would get on stage together and when they did, it got us excited. And there were plenty of fans who claimed to not want it because it would be money drive, they wouldn't be friends, blah blah blah...etc. The thought of the original 5 is so impossible, most fans are saying meh but the reality is, that probably wouldn't be the case otherwise.

Hyped to the heavens? Maybe not. But to me, it's not even what the fans want. As a die hard fan, I want to see it. But I think it's more important that those 5 blood brothers, do it for themselves just to see. It has been impossible to get Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven and that alone, will still make it a legitimate draw in the eyes of the fans. That's my case. The current lineup, with the current songs could get stale. I could care less if the media is just as excited, if the fans are still excited and willing to come, they should do it. IMHO it would make the most sense to do a full tour after this cycle is over but, get the 5 of them up there for a show, lets see how the fans react and go from there. Couldn't hurt, could it?