NicDwolfwood

1000 bucks for the locked n loaded....holy shit, thats rape

4 minutes ago, raggedyman said:

Oh well afd reissue it is. But slash said ince that there was tons if fotage from the old days filmed that was ginna be released bit never was. So maybe we'll finally see that

Slash was talking about the UYI documentary that would have contained footage from the entire tour. I dont think they had a camera crew filming them back in the AFD days.

It wouldnt make a lot of sense to release the UYI doc with the AFD remaster

WTF is going on. This is either gonna be what many have been waiting for...or another total letdown. 

I guess im somwhere in the middle. Are things currently better than they have been the previous 20+ years? Of course, but thats not saying much. It cant get much worse than 96-2014 era GNR. 

Im glad I saw them in LA in 2016, It was surreal seeing those 3 up on stage...but that came and went for me and everything since then has kinda been meh,  when It probably should have been so much more. The being left in the dark is still a tough pill to swallow, It doesnt feel like mystique or anything like that, more of a we rather leave you in the dark because we can and tough shit if you dont like it.

Im not too bothered about them not working quickly to release something because I was never expecting it. To prevent hating the whole thing, you kinda have to reduce expectations to Zero. Plus I remain apathetic to the idea of a GNR album with Richard Fortus and Frank Ferrer. 

Not surprising really. Once Meegan let it slip that SMKC was definitely gonna put out music, it was only a matter of when. 

Im not too bothered, I like SMKC and although disappointing that GNR isnt any closer to releasing new music, I cant say im too surprised. The only way to remain being a fan of this band is not to expect shit, that way you're surprised when shit happens and not too disappointed when nothing happens. 

Third times the charm it seems. No bullshit they killed it tonight. Worthy pro recording of GNR to close out the NITL tour. I even dug the CD songs which Im normally indifferent to. 

Probably The greatest Right Hand ever In Rock n Roll along with Keith. May he Rest in peace.

Dementia fucking sucks. took my Grandfather as well.

UYI I for me is better of the two and the one Ive listened to the most throughout the years.

UYI II although it has a good amount of great songs (14 Years, Yesterdays, Locomotive, YCBM, Estranged), It does lose some points having Get in the Ring, Shotgun Blues and My World on it. 

Its not my type of music, but It definitely wasnt bad at all. 

strange choice of song to have Billy G guest on. He looked and was completely lost on it. 

Not controversial at all. RQ as currently played is a fucking dog. just not good at all. 

We dont even have to go as far sa 2001, SMKC's version of RQ is much better than what is currently being played. 

1 hour ago, RONIN said:

I think what's really interesting about the Illusion saga is the back and forth between Izzy and the band.

It appears from all these vintage interviews that, like Slash, the actual deciding factor in him leaving wasn't riots/booze/lack of interest - these were certainly factors that added to his displeasure with the band but in the end it simply came down to contractual stipulations drawn up by Axl. So really, in the end, he was driven out by Axl.

To surmise some of the salient points in the previous interviews:

*Izzy seems to have a number of major issues with the band:

1. Lack of interest in the material - they were not playing stuff he wanted to play and they were changing his material into something he wasn't all that into. He wasn't a metal guy and he wasn't a ballad guy. He was a rock n roller w/ a punk flair. The closest to his style was Duff and possibly Steven. I don't think he liked much of the Illusion material, including the way his own songs turned out. He even says his solo material sounds better than the Guns stuff because it's more roots rock oriented.

2. He was ignored and diminished from the decision making process of the band post-Lies. Slash by his own admission is a control freak and Izzy does not like being dictated to with how he should play. 

3. Selling out. Izzy felt the band was selling out to rock stardom with the entourage, the bloated pompous musical arrangements, the ridiculous "concept" videos, etc. He may have gone along with it had he not felt marginalized from the band in other ways.

4. Getting clean and sober -  and the subsequent irritation with all of the bullshit that went w/ GnR. The late start-times and waiting for Axl, riots and lawsuits, the immense amount of the band's cash that was being lost due to Axl - the temptation of booze and drugs everywhere. Nobody has any interest in learning new stuff to play when Axl doesn't show up except Izzy which again distances him from Duff and Slash.

5. The wait time for the Illusions to be completed. Izzy's material is ready nearly 2 years before the album comes out. The Chicago 1989 sessions appear to be a key turning point when Axl's behavior completely turns off Izzy. He seems to lose interest completely in the project at that point and the extensive wait for Axl to record vocals only removes him further from Illusions emotionally. Potentially one of the big reasons Izzy didn't bother to come back for mixing the records or completing his stuff. 

6. He has money and has reached the pinnacle - played stadiums, paid his dues with the pre-appetite years, played with his heroes The Stones - what's left? He wants to play the type of music he likes and wants to fill the time he spent on drugs/drinking into his hobbies. The hobbies drive him further away from the band. Lack of interest and apathy towards where GnR is going creatively is a big reason for him distancing himself in '89.

7.  But the two death blows - the 2 key events that turn all the above frustration into a decision to leave is:

A. The exit of Alan Niven, the one sober and sensible individual who is Izzy's closest confidant, is kicked out and Izzy is forced by Axl to go along with that. Axl threatens to not record vocals on Illusions unless Niven resigns and the band capitulates. Enter Doug Goldstein, the villain of Guns n' Roses, as Jan put it once. Around this time, the word is out among the crew that Izzy may be leaving the band for good.

B. The revised contract. Izzy not moving enough on stage, not showing up to the video shoots for YCBM and Don't Cry, not showing much interest or even showing up to rehearsals - all of this begins to annoy Axl and Slash who feel they're doing all the work and Izzy's enjoying the fruits of their hard work without contributing. 

It appears that Izzy was seriously contemplating quitting soon after Alan Niven quits and the St. Louis Riot and Mannheim show gets him near the edge. As per Niven, he basically talked Izzy into doing the final show of the tour (1st leg) at Wembley because Izzy didn't even want to do that show - he was so fed up. But even then  - it appears that Izzy didn't officially decide to leave until after the Don't Cry shoot in September '91 when Axl and Slash decide to demote Izzy to a hired hand and/or force him to take a wage cut (lowering his percentage in the band?) - that's where Izzy decides enough is enough and quits in November. Apparently he even shows up for a few rehearsals before the tour resumes in December - potentially to work things out - and then bails for good. 

Why does he quit the partnership? 

Pure speculation but if he was being demoted and losing percentage points in the band - he was going to be diminished whether he stayed in the band or quit. Quitting the partnership at that time was probably something he was strongly advised against by Alan Niven. I suspect his fear of ongoing lawsuits that the band was tied up in plus Doug Goldstein potentially inducing Axl to give Izzy an ultimatum of "if you quit, then you have to leave the partnership" probably played a role in his ultimately leaving the band partnership. I don't think Izzy, given how tight he was with Alan Niven, would have left the partnership (a veritable goldmine post-Appetite) unless he was essentially forced to make that choice.

Let's not forget, Goldstein from day 1 had been angling to diminish the other partners. Izzy was the easiest guy to take out of the picture before turning to Duff and Slash. Who gained the most from Izzy being removed from the partnership? Doug Goldstein I'd say. What a coincidence that the original member closest to Niven is removed shortly after Niven's exit. Izzy was the biggest threat to Goldstein at that time - even bigger than Slash.

So really, despite everything - riots - drug abuse - bloated albums - Alan Niven's exit - Izzy was still in the band until Axl's contract demoting him in November of '91. This tidbit gets glossed over since most sources seem to state that Izzy was already done shortly after the Mannheim show and that the band kept it quiet until after Illusions was released. 

Footnote:

Izzy's appearances in 1993 on tour seem to be largely motivated by getting paid what he was owed by the band. As per Slash, he sprung a surprise on the band before the last show to be paid an exorbitant amount of money. They asked him to remain available in case Gilby couldn't play after the UK shows and Izzy disappears leaving the band with no choice but to have Gilby play. That seems to cement the acrimony Axl and Slash feel towards Izzy and it is a crucial reason why he probably was barred from re-entering the band in '94 when things were falling apart.

Why did Izzy do this? The only clue seem to be one of his classic rock magazine interviews where he mentions that money was a sore point for him with the band - he sounds pretty bitter about the way the financial severance package was put together. It appears like he may have been coerced to do the shows to simply get the final remaining installments which the band was not releasing to him. Seems very much like an Axl thing to do. 

What happens in '93 w/ Gilby's injury I suspect opens the door to Paul Tobias' entrance into the band. Had Izzy stuck around and left in a good way after the UK shows in '93, perhaps we could speculate he may have been included in the '94 writing sessions or perhaps Axl would have gone back to him instead of bringing in Tobias as a confidant when him and Slash fall out over the snakepit album in early '94. So many what if's here but it's tragic how these key events changed the course of the band's history. Had Izzy and the band mended their relationship in '93, GnR may have never broken up because there would not have been a need for Paul Tobias to be anywhere in the picture.

Dude. You've killed it in this thread with all these interviews. Its been a lot of fun reading and I genuinely learned some shit. Your efforts are much appreciated.

I dont think Slash and Duff playing those CD songs really changes much at all. The music selling business is fucking dead. That album is what it is. The songs receive lukewarm reactions at best live for the most part.

For me personally it doesnt change a whole lot either. I got into the band maybe 2 years before that album was released, so i approached it with a pretty open mind. I like maybe half the album at best. And at the moment they are playing alot of songs of the album that I dont particularly care for(Madagascar, Catcher, Prostitute, Sorry, TIL) and it hasnt really changed my opinion on those songs. 

As far as Axl forcing Slash and Duff to play those songs, I think thats Bullshit. They're playing those songs because they want to. Maybe as a show of good faith to Axl or to gain his trust if they're playing the long game of trying to do more with this band close it on a good chapter.

To be honest, never have been a fan of Catcher in the Rye. But that demo version really does sound much better than what ended up on the album. Maybe if this was on the album instead, I might have liked it. 

I would suggest checking out all his post GNR work. listen to it for yourself and form your own opinions on his stuff. Dont let someone turn you off from something you havent listened because they dont like it. 

personally I like almost all of the post GNR stuff. the exception being Libertad, which I didnt like much with the exception of a few songs on it. 

Fantastic song. Its one of the best songs off Contraband. 

I went to Night 2 at Dodgers Stadium last year and I had a great time. It was great to see Axl, Slash and Duff reunited and I even got to see Steven Adler since he joined them that night. I wasnt even a year old when the UYI tour ended in 93 so it was a dream come true to see 3/5ths OG GNR. Ive been debating whether to go see them 2nd night at the Forum next month. Really the only reason Id go see them a 2nd time would be because I didnt take my younger Brother with me last time I went. But at the moment there are alot of weak points in the set vocally and Im not particularly interested in the covers that they play currently.

Overall this show was very up and down. An improvement over Rio 2011? Sure, but thats not that hard to top, It was a disaster from top to bottom. 

Axl wasnt any worse than he's been the past few months, songs like Yesterdays, YCBM, RQ, UTLH, PC, NR, Michelle, and BHS sounded like they always do, shitty.Coma was a trainwreck, Axl's voice wasnt good throughout the song and then it fucking died at the end. I had not seen a full show of theirs in a while. Its a shame they're still doing extended jams all over the place, It kills energy so much. They would really benefit from trimming the fat off the setlist they are playing. In a festival setting, a lean, mean 18-20 set would have been really great. I know why they do all the jams, to give Axl room to catch his breath, but that shouldnt fly. If he cant cut it for such an extended set, then they should shorten it, and He should actually fucking prepare and rehearse, so that he can get it right without having to have all these momentum killers. 

Also, with pro shot, we got to hear Frank and Richard pretty clear(for the most part with richard, when his guitar sound wasnt being buried). Those guys shouldnt be anywhere near a new GNR album if there ever is one, IMO. They dont cut it. Frank is always all over the place and Richard's tone sucks. 

Just now, HuskerTornado said:

Axl just doesn't look real pleased tonight for whatever reason.  I think those early technical difficulties got him off kilter. 

He shouldnt be pleased, he's been unlistenable for large portions of this show. November Rain is just another example of that. 

RIP COMA

10 minutes ago, MisterBrownstoner said:

I don't understand the band's idea of keeping songs on their setlist that Axl is clearly no longer able to sing.  It would be more honest to cut the setlist and play songs that Axl can do justice to like Its So Easy and include other songs that Axl could play without any problems, like Bad Obsession. This is painful to look at.

Its not diffcult to understand. They have a small catalog to pick from. They'd have to cut like half the songs and the options to replace them are just as difficult to sing as the ones that theoretically would be swapped out.

DTJ was derailed by tht mix..lol

Just now, brunocfernandes said:

 I believe there´s no Fortus in this mix!

His crappy tone doesnt cut in the mix. It kinda sounds like they stuck his amps in a cardboard box. You could hear him for the intro to browstone and I sounded muffed.

Fortus tone for Brownstone sounds muffed.

Because Im strictly an album consumer, I listen to one or the other whenever im in the mood to listen to them, which hasnt been very recent either. Also I think I listen to UYI I alot more than II, since I like more of the songs on that album than the other.