bax

I would think Bucket would've liked to take the music in a more progressive/dynamic direction, or at the very least make more of it. How many albums has he released in the past year alone? His playing is priceless. He's the polar opposite of Axl in terms of his work ethic. No one would have had to motivate Bucket to work on new material. The character schtick may rub some people the wrong way and that's understandable, but the 2002 era band had an identifiable presence. The new band is adequate for touring purposes, but we have yet to see if Axl has songwriting chemistry with any of the new guitarists. That's a really bad position to be in at this point. GN'R would have had a real chance at acceptance IMO if Axl had deferred to Bucket's abilities a bit.

I used to be convinced Axl was Bipolar as well, but i would have to imagine at some point he would have been involuntarily hospitalized during a manic phase. i would be next to impossible for him not to be as severe as mania can be. He would have to be incredibly adept at concealing his condition to make it 50 years without being diagnosed. Clearly his mood swings and erratic behavior are well-documented, but there's really no reason for him to lie about his mental health at this point. I'm not saying he's stable by any means, but I'm not a shrink.

There was an issue with some of the vinyl records on CD. I had two bad copies before I found a good one. I bought all at my local Best Buy. Nope, lyrics. The whole thing to be honest was a waste of money.

Is there any way to distinguish a bad vinyl copy from a good one without listening to it first? I would love to have a decent record, but I bought two bad ones.

That's what mine looks like and I pre-ordered it from Best Buy the second I saw they were on sale. What's worse is that a couple of tracks that skipped even on the first play and I treat my lps with proper respect. It also seems a bit over saturated level wise. The lps were not mastered properly imo.

I actually dont see how inner turmoil fuels creativity. Not neccasarily. Maybe in terms of writing love songs maybe. But not creativity in general. The Stones, Zepp or even Queen dont seem that tortured. Jagger especially doesnt seem to care.

I'm not saying it's like that in general. I'm saying that when you look at the central themes running through Chinese Democracy (and maybe the Checkmate clip), it was what fueled Axl at the time he was writing those songs. And if that was what fueled him them, it seems like he's lost that now.

I agree with you that it fuels Axl. Hes even quoted as saying Bowie said he was driven by anger and he felt the same or somwthing. He does seem to be possessed by Jack Nicholson recently.

I was just ruminating in general about creativity. matisse was just normal dude. Bridget Riley is creative but shes not driven by rage.

i think passion might be a better way of putting it. That can be fueled by angst, love, drugs or any number of things. it seems to me Axl is lacking the drive to do something new, probably for any number of reasons including fear of failure AND fear of success. Imagine you had gone through what Axl did in terms of lineups changes, lawsuits and the generally lukewarm response to CD. i think Axl's inner self was deeply wounded by that, and i'm not referring to sales or anything of the like. What incentive does he have to put that much of himself out there again? Maybe he's grown comfortable in his life as a hermit and sees no reason to start up the media circus and again if the album were a success in commercial terms.

I usually don't like to speculate/think about this a lot, but I incidentally did. So with the risk of sounding ridiculous, here goes. What kickstarted this trail of thought were the lyrics of the Checkmate clip. A lot of people would agree it's roughly this:

All cautions made, every chance was given, no effort spared, to save what we had

Basically this shows regret, sadness, anger, abandonment issues... And basically those themes run through a lot of CD. The most obvious example being Sorry. A couple of examples:

Don't ever try to tell me, how much you care for me

Don't ever try to tell me, how you were there for me

I don't believe there's a reason (I don't, I don’t believe it)

I don't believe there's a reason (I sure, I don’t believe it)

I've got a wicked demon here somehow never fades

I've got an empty feeling

I won't be home today

No one is stopping you from doing what you want to do

No one is stopping you now, stopping you now

You like to hurt me

You know that you do

You like to think

In some way

That it's me

And not you

Nobody owes you

Not one goddamn thing

You know where to put your

'Just shut up and sing'

It was a bargain for the summer

An I thought I had it all

I was the one who gave you everything

The one who took the fall

You were the one who would do anything

The one who can't recall

Forgive them that tear down my soul

And bless them that they might grow old

And free them so that they may know

That it's never too late

I'm not going to say everything on CD is about this stuff and over analyze every line. But I still maintain that some of the most common themes in CD were anger, sadness, betrayal, abandonment issues etc. And yes, I do think this was mostly due to the original band breaking up. It's about Slash, it's about Duff, it's about Izzy. Not every line, but the main feel of the album is.

Just like for example Keith Richards You' Don't More Me Anymore is actually about Mick Jagger. At the time he even thought it was about some woman or relationship but later on he realized it was just how he felt towards Mick. He talks about it in his book as well.

Now, this raises a few issues for me.

First of all. They were all written in more or less anger. That matches the fire GnR started with around 2001/2002. And I think it was still there in 2006. Then it slowly wore off. Maybe this is related to the lack of new material. If the anger dies down, maybe the songs seem silly now (to Axl). Maybe that's part of why he's not doing anything with them. He's calmed down and feels meh about the lyrics and subjects in them.

That's half of why I think there's no album. The other half is this. If that was his inspiration then, what's his inspiration now? Is there any inspiration? What's the fuel?

So I think there's no progress because:

1. Axl feels weird/unsure about the old material which is probably just as angry and about the old GnR as most of CD is.

2. Without that anger, he has no inspiration to write other things either. There's no fuel to the fire.

Thoughts?

One last thing, PLEASE don't make this another Axl vs Slash threads.

I think that's an excellent analysis of the situation. i know that inner turmoil seems to inspire the most creativity for me and others I know. It's like a friend of mine told me- he needs to get his heart broken.

What i'd like to hear would be an album that is one long track with synth-oriented parts connecting one song to the next.

Should Axl fire all members except Pitman, Fortus and Tommy, rehire Buckethead and Josh Freese, and do an album like Their Satanic Majesties' Request? Sort of like a crazy experimental avant garde synth rock record (think Brian Jones in the 21st century), spearheaded by Pitman and Tommy, with wild, insane, unusual solos by Buckethead? With guest spots by Dave Navarro, Tom Morello, Adam Jones, Zakk Wylde, and production co-produced by Trent Reznor and Moby, with engineering by Critter? Axl would have no part in the music's composition at all; he would just add lyrics on top of the band created.

That sounds crazy enough to work.

Since live performance and studio work are different animals, i see no reason it has to be one or the other. Everyone has to face the possibility that at some point touring will no longer be viable, so there's no reason not to go the same route as The Beatles and record albums that would be virtually impossible to recreate live.

They are a good live band, but i honestly feel anyone but Axl could be replaced if all they are doing is playing shows.. Once they have a proven track record writing and recording as a band i'm sure i will feel differently.

i will not go to another show until they play at least one new song.

Sounds like an old Nintendo game with vocals.

Plus, doesn't anyone else think it's pretty fucking strange that EVERY version of the songs we got on CD, from demo to demo to demo to final version, had EXACTLY the same exact vocal tracks?? (With the exception of the little change at the end of SOD....very minor.)

If Axl was only willing to do ONE take for all these songs, why does anyone believe there are piles of unheard vocal tracks out there? Pretty crazy that in all this time, there wasn't a SINGLE alternate take of the vocal tracks from CD.

I know I'm in the minority but I think they leaked in the order they were completed. And I don't think Sorry and Shackler's were even recorded until 2007.

why does anyone believe there are piles of unheard vocal tracks out there?

Because Bach, whose obviously owes what's left of his career to AXl, SAID he heard 3 cds worth of material.

And at the time Classic Rock heard what they THOUGHT was Atlas Shrugged, "Scraped" and "Shackler's" hadn't yet been leaked or heard, so there's a very high likelihood that one of those songs is what they heard and mislabeled as Atlas.

Quite possible.

I doubt that he was just throwing out random titles, but i do think there are probably a lot fewer songs in existence with completed lyrics and vocals than we have been led to believe. You have to wonder wonder why 1)nothing has leaked in full or that was not released and 2)Silkworms is the only unreleased track that has been played live since 2001. i'm honestly not trying to create the idea of some vast conspiracy, but the only people that have discussed other songs have been band members, hangers on and an ancient article in which someone did claim to have heard Atlas Shrugged if i recall correctly. i'm sure there is plenty of music, but 2-3 albums completed? No way.

i don't know how to quantify or qualify "best U.S, crowd ever", but you're talking about a city that hasn't seen a GN'R show in 24 years. i think the word is grateful.

They haven't played Atlanta since '87. I have waited a long time for this . 100% there.

can we read the letter from axl's lawyers?

+1

I requested to see it on the first page of the thread. Not only was it not posted, but there was no response whatsoever.

Because the site owes it to you. Good one.

i don't think he's saying that. he's just explaining what happened. don't be son prickly.

so i guess we're not allowed to read it then. that's a shame. it would be interesting to see how exactly it was all addressed and referred to. it'd be interesting to read.

No, they don't owe it to me. With the complexity of the situation and the various stories being told, I'd like to know who to believe. They may very well have gotten a letter from a lawyer-but they may just as well have made that up to hide the fact that they are doing GN'R's biding in exchange for backstage passes or whatever.

Oh damn, you got us!

MAN you're sharp!!

First of all, we would like to apologise for not being able to communicate to you guys earlier. An unfortunate set of circumstances caught us out, involving most of us being extremely busy and Eric for a period having limited access to internet while in vacation in Cuba (MYGNR is blocked there, to make things more difficult).

Unfortunately, this period coincided with the delivery of fairly threatening letter delivered to Eric from Guns’ legal team that, in essence, demanded that we remove every and all topics relating to MSL and stolen data files “immediately”. Although we have responded to them, stressing that we do not believe that we have acted illegally in allowing members to hold discussions about the files, rather than face potential legal ramifications, we have chosen to respect their wishes that the topics cease to be posted.

As Eric was away, we felt it was inappropriate to reveal this to members until he returned – as the legal issues of the site are his business to handle.

Upon hearing that we were about to receive these letters, Bumblefoot contacted me on Facebook and essentially said that if it was any easier on us (in the wake of the letter), that it was OK for us to remove the threads he’d posted in. For now, we have done just that. We may restore them in the future at some point (we would really like to).

So, again – apologies for not letting you guys know why we suddenly removed all the threads about the incident. We were caught on the back foot and unfortunately didn’t have many options available to us. I hope this will satisfy any further complaints of “censorship” – we were simply acting in what we hoped were the best interests for the preservation of our site.

Thanks

- MYGNRFORUM Mod Team

The 'Mod Team' failed to represent Eric while he was away, therefore serious decisions need to be made.

Eric needs people from different time zones who can make big decisions based on common sense.

Some of the current mod team can fill these roles.

Not even close I'm afraid.

Sarcasm isn't an appropriate response to a legitimate request in my opinion. At this point though-fuck it. I have no reason to be here.

You are at a crossroad in your life?

No, merely in terms of deciding whether or not to continue dealing with the band's treatment of its fans.

can we read the letter from axl's lawyers?

+1

I requested to see it on the first page of the thread. Not only was it not posted, but there was no response whatsoever.

Because the site owes it to you. Good one.

i don't think he's saying that. he's just explaining what happened. don't be son prickly.

so i guess we're not allowed to read it then. that's a shame. it would be interesting to see how exactly it was all addressed and referred to. it'd be interesting to read.

No, they don't owe it to me. With the complexity of the situation and the various stories being told, I'd like to know who to believe. They may very well have gotten a letter from a lawyer-but they may just as well have made that up to hide the fact that they are doing GN'R's biding in exchange for backstage passes or whatever.

Please tell me you are fucking joking. You are joking right?

No. I'm at a crossroads here. I've honestly had enough of the band's behavior, and if this is the truth I will not support them in the future. If this is a bullshit cover story, I can just leave this forum.

can we read the letter from axl's lawyers?

+1

I requested to see it on the first page of the thread. Not only was it not posted, but there was no response whatsoever.

Because the site owes it to you. Good one.

i don't think he's saying that. he's just explaining what happened. don't be son prickly.

so i guess we're not allowed to read it then. that's a shame. it would be interesting to see how exactly it was all addressed and referred to. it'd be interesting to read.

No, they don't owe it to me. With the complexity of the situation and the various stories being told, I'd like to know who to believe. They may very well have gotten a letter from a lawyer-but they may just as well have made that up to hide the fact that they are doing GN'R's biding in exchange for backstage passes or whatever.

can we read the letter from axl's lawyers?

+1

I requested to see it on the first page of the thread. Not only was it not posted, but there was no response whatsoever.

It's hard for me to imagine being in a band where I had no idea what was going on and no role in the decision making process. Being in a band is about functioning on a level of mutual respect similar to a marriage.

Let's see the letter then.

Even if what MSL had was obtained illegally, it's not against the law to discuss illegal activity. It certainly wouldn't have been necessary for the mods to pile on MSL and anyone that thought he was telling the truth.