Liva

There are 3 GNR scenarios as I see it if they released an album today. 

1.  If Axl and his version of GNR had constant releases from 1994 - 2015, even if it were an album every 4 years with the various lineups, and then they released an AMAZING album now with Slash and Duff, the critics would be pretty favorable of the album and they might get a good amount of positive press and some comparisons to UYI and AFD but overall positive response, this wasnt the case so its...

2.  Axl has released 1 album in almost 30 years.  That album received mixed reviews, but other than the press of Axl is back out there and the 10 year build up to the album, the album itself and the songs have been forgotten for the most part by the general public, you hear AFD/UYI songs on the radio all the time still, SCOM/Jungle/YCBM is played at almost every major sporting event in the USA still to this day.  A new Axl/Slash/Duff album will be directly compared to UYI and AFD which are some of the greatest albums of all time, its really an impossible comparison for them to overcome.  Even if their songs were at the same caliber of UYI and AFD I think they will get negative press for years about it, it will take the general public like 5 years to admit this was a good album and chill out with the, "they arent as good as they used to be."

3.  The album is good, not great, they get slammed in the media for not being what they once were.  The negative press will highlight they are just a nostalgia act, ticket sales will decrease, casual fans will be turned off thinking they are going to pay top dollar to hear these new songs that they dont like and therefore not go to shows. 

Regardless of what they do, people dont buy records anymore, they stream.  Rock is not the mainstream anymore, its mostly single person artists that a label can control and split profits better with vs splitting with a band of 5 people and the extra egos that come with 5+ band members vs a single person act.  People will stream the record on spotify or apple music where GNR will receive between 3-12k per 1 million streams, hardly exciting for the amount of flack they could potentially receive. 

If i were to give them advice, I would have a brand new song written by axl/slash/duff and performed by them along with guys in the conspirators and release the song under SMKC on the next SMKC album, even if Myles ads sparse vocals here and there to make Axl a "guest" appearance.  Then see what the public reaction is to that song and go from there. 

3 hours ago, RussTCB said:

Speculation is the very basis for all band forums. Also, I couldn't disagree more with the "just enjoy the fact that they are out there touring" line of thinking. 

Just because all people pass away someday doesn't mean that GNR fans should accept whatever they get from a group of people who are capable of far more than they're giving fans. 

i agree speculation is part of the forum, and a necessary one at that.  Usually speculation is based off a solid fact we know, then we guess what the truth might be.  Like when the NITL sign at the troubadour was put up the day before or day of, speculating about that was exciting, we knew something was gonna happen, just didnt know what. 

The constant rehashing of the same complaints and making speculation into fact is what boggles my mind.  The one truth is Axl clearly stated that he doesnt owe anything to the fans, something like the fans arent guaranteed their own personal happy ending.  GNR is giving us what they want to give us, unless someone can force them to do something different, its not gonna change.  The only thing that will force change is a change in ticket sales, not the few hundred forum members bitching in circles, making stuff up.  I have been a member since before 2005 and I lurk, as you can see I dont get involved in almost anything.  I come here to see if there is anything new or cool to check out, otherwise i move along and check back in a few days later.  I am sure the mods can confirm I have spent probably 6 months worth of hours on this forum in the past 15+ years, and said next to nothing for those 15+ years.

1 hour ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

jaded post is an understatement - there is no way you could be a genuine fan 

anyone that has seen NITL more than once and followed what they've done since 2016 will know the uncomfortable truth that GNR have become a total joke b/c of no new music 

they had the potential to win over the world 10x upon the reunion and they've decided to take the easy way out which is make your beloved sweet child sound worse and worse to intolerable levels and you are trying to proclaim that fans should be happy with what they are getting

if you happen to get any VIP packages pls send em my way so i can sell it on ebay, actually don't bother, cause i wouldn't even waste my time doing that 

"Jaded - adjective; definition - tired, bored or lacking enthusiasm, typically after having too much of something."   I would say i am the opposite of Jaded, being I am not bored or complaining, and I am still enthused by them touring.  Poor word choice there.

Shows I have seen:

I would think this would qualify me as a genuine fan, dont ya think?  I have seen all these shows and am excited to see them this summer at Metlife stadium.  Jaded...nah...true and excited fan...yup

we should stop all the dumb speculating and just enjoy the fact that they are out there touring and fans are cheering and having a grand ole time.  After everything they have been through since the 80's, the fact they are all still alive is a miracle, the fact they can still play at this level is amazing.  We could be back to those dark years of 2003-2005 where we wouldn't hear a peep from the band and no touring, an exciting moment was a newly surfaced picture of a supposedly new leg tattoo he got in a picture that was possibly from 1998.

I have listened to Sweet Child O Mine probably 25,000 times in my life and loved it every time, ill gladly go see GNR perform it live for me the 30th time in a row or how ever many GNR/Axl/Slash concerts ive been to.  Ill soak in that 3 hour concert anytime I can instead of the 90 min - 2 hour concert ive seen others suggest.  If the concert is too long, leave when you want, no one is forcing you to be there.  If the band starts playing their 3rd hour to empty stadiums, they will adjust accordingly and shorten the show, that clearly hasn't been happening. 

If Izzy came back for this leg, before the end of it, people would be complaining that he is lazy, boring to watch and should just stay home.  GNR cant please all 4 million + people.  Enjoy the music and musicians while you can, because one day you wont be able to.  No one gets outta here alive!

2 hours ago, DurhamGirl said:

I found this post helpful in my understanding of the present situation, thankyou.

you are very welcome!

19 hours ago, Jaygnr said:

My jaysus...did you really just pull all that outta your arse??? Laughable..... heres one for ya! in the off chance that dat is the case, why doesnt the band or anyone fucking say something....like anything?? Say its a legal or money issue...stop this insulting bollox of "stuffs happening"! Throwing around fake record deals worth 15 mill... have a day off mate!!

 

And also Rich Fortus would want to take a long hard look at himself as a musician. Clearly zero ambition...in a band 20 yrs n released one record. Better off in a tribute band apart from the pay...its the only diff

I was pretty clear in the fact that I was speculating in all this, so yes I pulled these numbers and scenarios "outta my arse" just like others put all the blame on Axl or pull their own theories outta their arse's...fact is no one knows for a fact a damn thing, its all just their own speculation, so what makes your theory or someone else's any more credible or reasonable?  The only fact that we can all agree on is there has been no new music released under the GNR name since CD in 2008.  The old 1986 cuts released in their box set were not CD era songs and probably have different ownership/rules governing how they were released.  Axl released a loony tunes song, not under the GNR name, so its clear he is ok in releasing things and not the hermit/hoarder you make him out to be.

If it is a legal issue, you keep your mouth shut, dont do interviews and get it sorted with the lawyers.  The last thing you want is someone slipping up in an interview and those words being twisted around by the record label and used against GNR.  There is a reason you have a "right to remain silent, anything you say can and will be used against you."  You let the lawyer do your arguing, you dont say dumb shit to reporters and be at the mercy of the reporter changing around what you said (happens all the time) and that snippet coming back to screw your argument against the label.

Fortus has no ambition...do you know that?  He told you that personally?  He was in the Dead Daisies and left them when it came time to pick a band.  Could have been for the payday, sure...but maybe he see's the future brighter with GNR if they can release whatever they may or may not have music wise.

Again...we are all just speculating and making stuff up...can we agree on that?

1 hour ago, Jaygnr said:

Fuck the set list its the new Album thats pissing most off id imagine and thats down to Axl clearly because Duff and Slash both released material since theyv been back and i think that speaks VOLUMES! 

So let Duff and Slash play this out i guess is where iv ultimetely landed....end of the day most these songs they havnt been playing for the last 20 years. My angers with Axl sitting on a vault of music, that will never get released!! Such a fucking waste of talent to release one album of new material in what, fucking 28 years

maybe it is Axl's fault, maybe it isnt.  Chinese leftovers were recorded 15+ years ago and most likely owned by the record company, which they have a say I presume in how or if they are released.  GNR could still be under contract with a record label and owe them 1 album before being released from their contract.  Hypothetically the record company that owns those recordings could be saying to GNR, give us $15 million and you can buy the songs from us and release them on spotify for free or whatever you want.  GNR might only want to pay a lesser sum, say 1 million for them, this could be cause for a delay that isnt Axl's fault, it could be a long protracted negotiation.  There might be a scenario where the guys wrote new songs and want to release all new stuff for free but still owe a record to the label or have to pay a big fine/settlement if they dont deliver, which they probably dont want to do.  Maybe they want some old songs and some new ones, but same problem with the label.  The label knows they are flush with cash, and they are probably pissed for all the lost revenue and headaches from the 1994-2008 era, the record company can hold them hostage from releasing music under the GNR name unless they pay up some big sum, who knows.  Or maybe it is all actually Axl's fault...who really knows.  If they are in a lawsuit or trading nasty legal letters with the record company, that is why no one in the GNR camp would want to say anything and are being cryptic, cause...anything you say can and will be used against you.  There are so many things that we simply dont know, so many factors, that we cannot accurately place blame on anyone.

If you can sell out a tour and make bank, would you pay say $10 million to buy songs from the label, just to release them for free on spotify and see no increase in ticket sales?  No one would do that, it is called the "Music Business" for a reason, you cant simply ignore the business side as much as they may just want to focus on the music side.

Slash and Duff dont have that record label burden which is why they release music under their respective names/bands, and Slash went completely self distribution a while ago, so I am guessing even while he wasnt talking with Axl, he knew the record label game was hell and he switched courses.  Slash and Duff also release music, because they need their own music to sell tours under their own names if they want to be around for more than 1 or 2 tours.  GNR on the other hand, as proven, can sell tours without new music and have been doing so since 2002.

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

When was the last time you saw Pavarotti sprinting across the stage and doing the splits midair whilst jumping off a stack of amps?

Sorry but do you suddenly stop being able to write songs at 29?  

I was referring to the constant complaints about his appearance, how his voice isnt as strong as it was in the 90's, not his song writing ability.  Maybe he has bad family genetics and should be 350 lbs and he is working hard to mainting his appearance although its not the rail thin Axl we remembered.  Maybe he has an illness and is on medications that make it very hard to get much skinnier, maybe he could lose a few lbs but just doesnt care...until he tells us, we have no idea, so give the guy a break

as for releasing new music, I personally would love to hear new songs, but put yourself in the bands shoes.  The old formula from the 90's and earlier was you spent big money on making a record and you went on tour to promote the record and sell records.  The money was in record sales, the tour was the marketing to sell records.  With free music and spotify etc, the formula has completely flipped.  Now artists release music for free in order to sell concert tickets, the money is made on the tour now which equates to higher ticket prices, bigger productions etc.  Without a free record release to tour behind, 99% of todays artists wouldn't be able to sell out a successful tour and make money.  GNR clearly doesnt need help selling tickets (yet) so why release new music.  Releasing new music will just lead to ending criticism, the bar is set so high and anticipation is so high that even if they released an AMAZING record, people would still find something to complain about...its over produced, i think I hear autotune, slash's solo could be more like this or that, not enough rock songs, not enough ballads...its really a no win situation.  So right now they are selling out stadiums, no interviews to get hassled at, sure they are playing the same songs, but people would be complaining about new songs and what they replaced in the current set list.  If I were GNR, in this climate, I wouldnt release any new music.  All it will do is create headaches.  And if its not a ridiculously awesome record and bad press follows, it could actually hurt ticket sales.  People buying tickets know what they are getting and are clearly happy with it cause they are still selling boat loads of tickets.  Its the unfortunate truth that wont change until they need help selling tickets, which I dont see happening any time soon.

4 minutes ago, Politania said:

you're reading my mind

if this forum had 1 million active members and they were all complaining about the setlist, you have 25% of your concert goer's complaining, then yes something needs to be changed.  But that isnt the case, so everyone needs to just chill out and enjoy what we have.  The guys arent 28 yrs old anymore, there is no changing that, set expectations accordingly

At this very moment, there are roughly 200 members online this forum/website.  I don't know the total number of average unique monthly active users, maybe it is a few thousand or so (I could be wrong).  According to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_in_This_Lifetime..._Tour they have sold over 4.3 MILLION tickets to this tour, and there are several dates, especially North American 2017 dates that have no attendance numbers listed for some reason.  The average music listener/concert goer/gnr fan wants to hear the hits, plain and simple.  To think they would drop SCOM or YCBM because a few hundred people here on a forum want set lists changes and are obsessed with the order songs are played in at shows thousands of miles away from them is ludicrous.  As a hardcore fan myself, yea I would like to see some deep cuts added so I can watch them on youtube, but to think constant setlist bitching on here will lead to someone in the GNR camp to see it, take it seriously, and jeopardize severely changing a formula that has sold MILLIONS of tickets to placate people on a forum where in a show of 30,000 people there are maybe 10-20 forum members in attendace....stop and think about that for a minute.  The best way to lose fans, is for them to pay top dollar to go to a show and not get the hits played.  Everyone just needs to take a deep breath, be happy they are still out there playing.  The alternatives is we could have 1993-2016, a member could be dead and this over forever, or the band just calls it quits.  They cant mess with the setlist too much in the latter two.

Dont worry, Be happy - Bobby McFerrin

6 minutes ago, Creed said:

So, you think Axl won't release it until he is dead ? Possible. Axl should sell the double album for the highest bid. 

he wouldn't release anything, as he would be dead.  But his estate/gnr management/record company will most likely release stuff after his passing if there is 1)stuff to release  2) the public cares.  Axl being dead is a morbid thought, he is only in his mid 50's, and unless he has a drug problem or gets ill, there is no reason why he wont live well into his 80's/90's.  So if no music is released at all, will the general public still care that much in 40+ years?

here is my take:  in the pre napster days (80/90's) bands released albums which they sold for $15-20 a cd and that is where they made most of their money.  The tour was a way to promote their album and therefore increase album sales.  They made money on tours, but this wasnt the big revenue driver.  The business model has completely switched, these days band release albums so they can tour/have a reason to tour, and they make their money on the tours/ticket sales/merch since they make next to nothing on album sales with Spotify and ways to get the music for free/next to nothing. 

Guns dont need a new album in order to tour and fill arena's and sometimes stadiums.  An album, while diehards will love it, will have almost a 100% probability of being slammed by the press when its compared to AFD (one of the greatest albums of all time) and UYI.  So unless they are confident they have something that can stand next to AFD, there really is no incentive to release music and get your balls kicked in by the media and general public. 

The hype around a new album will be insane and expectation will be unreachable.  Even if they release a solid album, they arent going to sell more tickets to shows and they will not make any money from the actual album.  At the end of the day, the general public wants to see and hear the old hits live and if they take a year off and start a 30yr UYI tour as a reason to go out, they will still sell out arena's and make a shit ton of money and not have the negativity surrounding the new album hanging over their heads.  If I were them personally, I would not release anything, because why risk it, why give yourself a new headache, just keep touring, people will keep coming as has been proven by endless tours without new music for the past 18 yrs.

Our best shot at new music is that Slash cant sit idle and will keep writing, so if Axl feels inspired and wants to take that risk and jump on the bandwagon we might have something, otherwise Slash will just keep writing for SMKC, touring with SMKC and going out with GNR every few years for a swing around the globe.

unless you were actually at the show, there is really no reason for anyone on here to complain.  Do you feel ripped off cause you have a few less songs to youtube?  Axl was sick, he knew it before he went on stage. I am sure he was presented with the options to either 1) Cancel   2)Shorten the set and hope for the best   3)Play full set and hope for the best.  We know which one he chose, it didnt work out.  Being in a different country every few days, eating very different foods, not being used to the drinking water, even in ice cubes.  It is easy to accidentally eat something that doesn't agree with your stomach.  For all we know, he went backstage to puke or take a shit and would be ready to go back out in 20 minutes to finish the show but the promoter pulled the plug to avoid a possible riot.  Imagine what would have ensued if someone came out and said "Axl is puking backstage, he will hopefully be back out in 20 mins".  The crowd would have turned on the band over that 20 mins, and if he ended up not coming back out for legit reasons, that place would've been torn to shreds by the fans. 

mortgages are public record.  In 2007 Axl took two mortgages out on his Malibu mansion for 5.525m and 500k via Washington Mutual Bank, totaling 6.025m. If his house is worth 5-6m, he has little to no equity in it.  These 150m figures are made up by websites that base it off of record sales and concert ticket sales and their algorithm of what they think an artist brought in, it doesnt take into account what an artist spent at all, or any debt.  They are basically saying gnr sold 100m albums and Axl prob got $1 off each album plus he did X much touring and got X amount of money from touring.  It is all made up and way off.  If Axl was worth 150m, he wouldnt have to mortgage his Malibu house to the gills in 2007, he would have the cash, which he clearly didnt.  I think in 2007 he was strapped for cash obviously.  With all the touring from 2009-2014 and gnr reunion in 2016 I am sure he has plenty of cash and paid off those mortgages and any other debt and probably has a nice 50-70m in his bank account along with Slash and Duff.  Rockstars are elevated into a world most people cant fathom, but he doesnt have 150m in cash that he can just light on fire if he wanted.  As the reunion rolls on, he might get there though.

Coma to the dome piece!  The band has been missing slash's guitar for all these years, might as well have them play the song with some slash overload to make up for lost time.  Yep, oh so good...

Metlife 7/23 pretty please