GunsNRevolvers2 Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 ChiDem was given to the label in 1999 and rejected.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 1, 2010 Share Posted February 1, 2010 According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliCD was ready before these touches as you can hear in the 1999 and 2006 demos.Well, those are and have been acknowledged as demos and not the final versions of the songs.It's an issue of semantics, I know, but what I'm saying is a version of the album may have been ready much earlier, but the album as it was ultimately defined and released was not ready that far back. It couldn't have been because ultimately Bumblefoot and Frank played on the album.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longpig Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) Yes proudly damn clearly makes more sense doesnt it? lol Dick.The point is it doesn't sound like prostitute whether he meant to sing it or not.LP Edited February 2, 2010 by Longpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lose Your Illusions Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Just listened to Prostitute with the Guitar track, Piano track (with synth) and Bass track, no vocals or any other other guitars, sounds amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagarin Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliAli, the quote you used, just backs up the thing you're trying to argue against."while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it" ... like Bumble and Frank.The record had been mixed before, and when Bumble and Frank put parts, and other changes, it had be to be *ahem* mixed again.But it was, the songs on it now, substantially done awhile ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliAli, the quote you used, just backs up the thing you're trying to argue against."while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it" ... like Bumble and Frank.The record had been mixed before, and when Bumble and Frank put parts, and other changes, it had be to be *ahem* mixed again.But it was, the songs on it now, substantially done awhile ago.No, not at all. It doesn't back up what I'm arguing against.On February 22, 2007 Del James said then and there that recording had been completed. Then and there recording for the version of the album that was ultimately released was completed. Like I said, I don't doubt that there was an earlier version of the album that could have been released. But, the album that was ultimately released and IS the Chinese Democracy record was not finished as early as some claim. The piece that you're not getting is that THE album is the version that was released. That is the Chinese Democracy album, not some version we never heard in its entirety without proper sequencing and mastering.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagarin Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliCD was ready before these touches as you can hear in the 1999 and 2006 demos.Well, those are and have been acknowledged as demos and not the final versions of the songs.It's an issue of semantics, I know, but what I'm saying is a version of the album may have been ready much earlier, but the album as it was ultimately defined and released was not ready that far back. It couldn't have been because ultimately Bumblefoot and Frank played on the album.AliWell, you're the one who made it an issue of semantics.This issue came up in this thread becasue people pulled the "how did it take this long to do XYZ?"The responce is that, well, it really didn't. Other factors were at hand and things progressed and changed as circumstances did. No, Axl did NOT re-record his vocals a thousand times, no he did NO re-record every guitar part once a lineup changed. The collection of material and takes just kept growing.No, there wasn't a mastered file of Chinese, as is, sitting on a shelf for 6 years, or a bunch of pressed CDs with packaging just waiting in a warehouse for all of that time.But Chinese as we know it, was basically "done" conceptually and musically a long, long time ago.Chinese Democracy is a project that just wouldn't end. It wasn't a project that took a long time of work. The main "work" of the album was sadly overshadowed by non-musical problems.Your definition of DEMOS are is also troubling, I think you're way too dismissive because of how they were labled. The truth is there's not a substantial amount of difference in ANY of the demos we got compared to the final version. Different guitar solos, maybe, some new guitar parts, maybe, a new vocal overdub (only on Chinese and the last part of SOD), and a part of a bridge/chorus cut from Better, different effects in Prostitute, and a 'playback effect' in ITW. Lyrics he changed on tour for Better remained unchanged in the cut of the album. IRS had some more dirty guitar work, the synth was pulled back, and the vocals on every single track remained unchanged. IRS and TWAT were recorded in 1999. That's 9 years of being substantially in the can. Bucket was added, then Bumble. And different intro ideas.But yes, it's semantics still. Mark Canter's point was that people thought Axl was going over and over and over the same things - he wasn't, the work was substantially done and finished quickly after assembling a band. They were actually pretty productive.It's getting the record OUT that took the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagarin Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliAli, the quote you used, just backs up the thing you're trying to argue against."while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it" ... like Bumble and Frank.The record had been mixed before, and when Bumble and Frank put parts, and other changes, it had be to be *ahem* mixed again.But it was, the songs on it now, substantially done awhile ago.No, not at all. It doesn't back up what I'm arguing against.On February 22, 2007 Del James said then and there that recording had been completed. Then and there recording for the version of the album that was ultimately released was completed. Like I said, I don't doubt that there was an earlier version of the album that could have been released. But, the album that was ultimately released and IS the Chinese Democracy record was not finished as early as some claim. The piece that you're not getting is that THE album is the version that was released. That is the Chinese Democracy album, not some version we never heard in its entirety without proper sequencing and mastering.AliYou're arguing, then, for something that NO ONE is arguing against. That's the piece you're not getting.The point is these SONGS, as musical items, were done very quickly. Turning them into a product took much, much longer.The claim that "Axl spent 10 years on these vocals?" is incorrect. He finished them and moved on. Whether or not they were mastered, mixed, or stamped on an aluminum disc doesn't matter --- we know the timeline of when the WORK and the WRITING was done on the album. Bumble coming in and layering in some ProTools doesn't change the essential truth that the songs we now know as Chinese Democracy did not take 14 years, or 10 years, to emerge. They were there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 You're arguing, then, for something that NO ONE is arguing against. That's the piece you're not getting.The point is these SONGS, as musical items, were done very quickly. Turning them into a product took much, much longer.The claim that "Axl spent 10 years on these vocals?" is incorrect. He finished them and moved on. Whether or not they were mastered, mixed, or stamped on an aluminum disc doesn't matter --- we know the timeline of when the WORK and the WRITING was done on the album. Bumble coming in and layering in some ProTools doesn't change the essential truth that the songs we now know as Chinese Democracy did not take 14 years, or 10 years, to emerge. They were there.Where's the facepalm when you need it. Yes, there was someone who argued that the record was done in 2002. Obviously the songs themselves were by and large done for a while. Not completely, obviously, but for the most part. But, the record, as in what was ultimately released in 2008, was not done in 2002. To me, the record is more than just writing songs. It's sequencing, mixing mastering and certainly completing recording.Yes, the bulk of the record was done, recording-wise. But, depending on your definition of what constitutes a "ready" record, it was not ready in 2002, which is what marlon_brando15 said. I just don't see how a record can be "ready" unless it is mixed and mastered, etc. Hey, that's just me.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estranged Reality Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliCD was ready before these touches as you can hear in the 1999 and 2006 demos.Well, those are and have been acknowledged as demos and not the final versions of the songs.It's an issue of semantics, I know, but what I'm saying is a version of the album may have been ready much earlier, but the album as it was ultimately defined and released was not ready that far back. It couldn't have been because ultimately Bumblefoot and Frank played on the album.AliIn all honesty, I don't think Axl worked on it consistently over the years. I think he only truly began work on this album as we know it around 1998, and after Oh My God's horrible reception, knowing his past behaviour, he probably took some time off. But he also probably didn't stop leasing the studio time, which means they were still paying.It was reported that Fernando used to drive him to the studio at, like, 3 a.m. - when the rest of the band wasn't there - and he'd leave notes for them, etc. (This, I believe, was reported in Rolling Stone or another fairly credible publication.)I think he was basically ready to release a version of the album, give or take, in '02 -- but after the failed tour, he probably went back on his plans and stopped actively recording again. I don't think he expected such a harsh reaction from the public, and it probably set him back a bit. I think this is why Bucket grew restless and "officially" left in '04. (It's reasonable, also, to assume that perhaps the band wasn't really a unit from 2002 - 2004, and when Axl decided to play Rio again in '04, they tried to get Buckethead back and he turned them down -- because otherwise, I think it's kinda weird how Bucket decided to leave the band just as soon as they were ready to play live shows again. Does that make sense? I think the band probably wasn't doing much of anything from '02 - '04 and that's why we didn't hear anything about Bucket sooner.)This is all speculation, but it's not hard to put believable pieces together when you're dealing with Axl. I'm not bashing him - I'm just saying this is what I think probably happened, and the fact that his vocals on most of the demos we know are from circa 1999 (like I.R.S.) didn't change on the final album cuts certainly reinforces the idea that he did a lot of work early on and then kind of got distracted or lost motivation or whatever. Edited February 2, 2010 by Estranged Reality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 According to Marc Canter (author of Reckless Road)""I love the new stuff and it didn't take as long to make as people think. Some people think that it took too long to make. It took 2 years to put a band together. Most of the record was done in about 3 years but there were many things to work out with the record compnay and management and while that was going on [Axl] added some things to it."Yeah, but on the other hand you have Del James making this comment on 02/22/2007The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed. Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt.There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.Take care,Del James http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1770AliCD was ready before these touches as you can hear in the 1999 and 2006 demos.Well, those are and have been acknowledged as demos and not the final versions of the songs.It's an issue of semantics, I know, but what I'm saying is a version of the album may have been ready much earlier, but the album as it was ultimately defined and released was not ready that far back. It couldn't have been because ultimately Bumblefoot and Frank played on the album.AliIn all honesty, I don't think Axl worked on it consistently over the years. I think he only truly began work on this album as we know it around 1998, and after Oh My God's horrible reception, knowing his past behaviour, he probably took some time off. But he also probably didn't stop leasing the studio time, which means they were still paying.It was reported that Fernando used to drive him to the studio at, like, 3 a.m. - when the rest of the band wasn't there - and he'd leave notes for them, etc. (This, I believe, was reported in Rolling Stone or another fairly credible publication.)I think he was basically ready, give or take, in '02 -- but after the failed tour, he probably went back on his plans and stopped actively recording again. I think this is why Bucket grew restless and left in '04. This is all speculation, but it's not hard to put believable pieces together when you're dealing with Axl. I'm not bashing him - I'm just saying this is what I think probably happened, and the fact that his vocals on most of the demos we know are fromm circa 1999 (like I.R.S.) didn't change on the final album cuts certainly reinforces the idea that he did a lot of work early on and then kind of got distracted or lost motivation or whatever.This is all true. No argument there.Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bonham Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMt9bHiFTIEdoes anyone have links to other tracks acapella style from CD? Ive heard shacklers also but I think most of us have...ThanksHow could it have taken years just to record these kind of vocals?!?This is where the thread took a left-turn Ali - you're the only person talking about the mastering, sequencing and Frank's gong noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ali Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMt9bHiFTIEdoes anyone have links to other tracks acapella style from CD? Ive heard shacklers also but I think most of us have...ThanksHow could it have taken years just to record these kind of vocals?!?This is where the thread took a left-turn Ali - you're the only person talking about the mastering, sequencing and Frank's gong noises.No, not really. There was a comment that "Chinese was ready in 2002". Without further clarification, that sounds like the whole record itself was done in 2002. That's not the same thing as saying the "bulk of recording was done by 2002". That last statement is clearly true. Ali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagarin Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMt9bHiFTIEdoes anyone have links to other tracks acapella style from CD? Ive heard shacklers also but I think most of us have...ThanksHow could it have taken years just to record these kind of vocals?!?This is where the thread took a left-turn Ali - you're the only person talking about the mastering, sequencing and Frank's gong noises.I would plus-Karma you if I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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