What is the greatest album of alltime?

[D..]

I'm sorry man but this is BULLSHIT. Are we talking about that Velvet Underground album with the banana artwork on it? Truth is, only elitists judge this album as great

Greatness and elitism come hand in hand.

and it's supposed to have influenced major bands. Fact is, this is not true

Despite their saying so?

Source?

I'm seeing the same lists of best albums of all time and this shit keeps popping up

Well it would have to if they were the same, wouldn't it?

You're trying to look smart but your sentence doesn't mean anything. You might want to check a doctor.

Give me interviews where Axl said Velvet Underground influenced him, I really don't think so, I think his references are Queen, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, Elton John and Aerosmith. As for Muse it's Rage against the machine. Was Zach de la Rocca influenced by VU?

So Axl Rose and Zach De La Rocca are the yardstick of musical validity now? How gives a flying fuck whether Axl Rose likes or dislikes something, how about having your own taste? Sorry, thats elitism, isn't it?

Learn to READ. The guy was telling me that without VU, my favourite bands (GNR,Muse, RATM...) wouldn't exist today. I asked where Axl or Zach said that. I don't see VU in their music. That's all. Read properly before writing bullshit and make me waste time replying to you.

I understand if some people really dig it, but I doubt so many people really love it, I think most people just read stuff here and there and convince themselves it's great because it's old and that many people list it as a reference, kind of like Hitchcock movies and stuff, it's the same problem.

Right, i suppose all Hitchcock fans are elitists now too, right? Nothing to do with his absolute mastery of his chosen field or anything i'm sure.

I'm not saying Hitchock fans are elitists, I'm saying that if you HAVE to name a Hitchcok movie in your best movies of all times list, it's bullshit, and it's elitism. You should name what you like best, and if indeed Hitchock was seeking perfection in his movies, I'm sorry to say his movies really don't do it for me next to Chaplin or David Lean movies which are IMO far superior in most fields especially when it comes to what any art is made for: emotion.

The only difference i see between you and these mythical elitists of lore that you're talking about is that you worship different Gods...and thats it.

There's no proof of the existence of any God. Your argumentation is... bullshit. Please take some time to think before opening your smartass face next time.

Edited March 21, 2010 by D..

[Marky]

Anyone that doesn't pick The Beatles - Sgt Pepper is an eejit.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Source?

Source for why greatness and elitism come hand in hand? Well surely if you're in the bracket of great then you're part of an elite few, stands to reason. And you want a source for bands that say they were influenced by The Velvet Underground? OK, well Punk Attitude documentary, David Johansen of The New York Dolls says they were, The New York Dolls, a band i believe that influenced Guns n Roses, do you see the lineage? Dee Dee Ramone of The Ramones was someone else who is on record saying that The Velvet Underground were a great inspiration to him, you want me to name every single fuckin one, well i can't do that cuz i don't know em all, i'm not an encyclopedia.

You're trying to look smart but your sentence doesn't mean anything. You might want to check a doctor.

Actually i was making fun of you.

Learn to READ. The guy was telling me that without VU, my favourite bands (GNR,Muse, RATM...) wouldn't exist today. I asked where Axl or Zach said that. I don't see VU in their music. That's all. Read properly before writing bullshit and make me waste time replying to you.

Does one have to say or even be aware of influence? You don't have to see a carbon imprint of an artists music for the influence to be valid. One can be influenced by a spirit or an attitude, again, citing Dee Dee Ramone, he says Television were a huge influence on him, i don't see it in The Ramones music or any of his solo stuff. I don't see none of Elvis in Minor Threat but i can pretty much say as a cast iron guarantee that without Elvis you wouldn't've had Minor Threat, Guns n Roses are part of a lineage of which, many would argue, VU are part of. Velvet Underground are considered the godfathers of punk and Guns n Roses were/are greatly influenced by punk and have stated so in the past, so it stands to reason.

I'm not saying Hitchock fans are elitists, I'm saying that if you HAVE to name a Hitchcok movie in your best movies of all times list, it's bullshit, and it's elitism.

Creating best of's is defining an elite so if elitism is your problem then what the fuck are you doing even operating under things like 'best of'. If they are among the best movies of all time (which many think so) their influence on the evolution of cinema at least is completely fucking undeniable, then you sorta do have to...unless you wanna lie to yourself.

You should name what you like best

Perhaps some people, despite not liking something consider it a disservice to common sense to omit certain things. For example, say i'm into boxing, i don't like Muhammad Ali, i don't like him, i don't like his style of fighting, i think he was a blowhard and i was asked to name a top ten of boxers of all time, i'd hafta be a fucking idiot to not have him in there cuz the proof is in the pudding. It all depends on what basis you create things like 'best of's' on and unfortunately, not everybody thinks like you. Its one thing to be asked your favorites and another thing to be asked THE best or THE greatest in this instance. One of my favorite movies is Confessions of a Window Cleaner but i'd have to be short a few to go around lauding that as the greatest piece of cinema ever commited to celluloid.

I'm sorry to say his movies really don't do it for me

Don't be sorry, everybodys entitled to their taste.

There's no proof of the existence of any God. Your argumentation is... bullshit. Please take some time to think before opening your smartass face next time.

Thank you for your kind words. Y'don't think that maybe there was an analogy buried in there somewhere? "The only difference i see between you and these mythical elitists of lore that you're talking about is that you worship different Gods...and thats it" Think about it cochise

[Arkham17]

APPETITE FOR DESTRUCTION OF COURSE

[Bono]

I understand if some people really dig it, but I doubt so many people really love it, I think most people just read stuff here and there and convince themselves it's great because it's old and that many people list it as a reference, kind of like Hitchcock movies and stuff, it's the same problem.

Right, i suppose all Hitchcock fans are elitists now too, right? Nothing to do with his absolute mastery of his chosen field or anything i'm sure.

I'm not saying Hitchock fans are elitists, I'm saying that if you HAVE to name a Hitchcok movie in your best movies of all times list, it's bullshit, and it's elitism. You should name what you like best, and if indeed Hitchock was seeking perfection in his movies, I'm sorry to say his movies really don't do it for me next to Chaplin or David Lean movies which are IMO far superior in most fields especially when it comes to what any art is made for: emotion.

Good job D you posted possibly one of the dumbest posts I have ever read. If somone has to name a Hitchcok movie in their list of best movies of all time they're an elitist? You dont' agree with some people's fav/best list of albums and think they are faking their opinions to look cool? More like the person who knocks everyone's opinion as being fake while claiming their own to be the only true legit way to look at things is the elitist. You are the only one in this thread acting like a elitist. An extremely pretentious one at that. The funny thing is you are so oblivious to it and have no clue how lame you're coming off. Your psuedo intellect is laughable too and only makes you look like a goof.

Edited March 22, 2010 by Bono

[maXx]

how can any one album be named the greatest of all time, that's an impossible call

[sorry if out of time here but i confess i haven't read the entire topic]

i keep changing my mind about who i think has the greatest .. and that's only going by those i've heard, which is minimal compared to what's out there - obscure and unobscure

[D..]

Source?

Source for why greatness and elitism come hand in hand? Well surely if you're in the bracket of great then you're part of an elite few, stands to reason. And you want a source for bands that say they were influenced by The Velvet Underground? OK, well Punk Attitude documentary, David Johansen of The New York Dolls says they were, The New York Dolls, a band i believe that influenced Guns n Roses, do you see the lineage? Dee Dee Ramone of The Ramones was someone else who is on record saying that The Velvet Underground were a great inspiration to him, you want me to name every single fuckin one, well i can't do that cuz i don't know em all, i'm not an encyclopedia.

OOOOH so it's a guy influencing a guy, influencing a guy. YEAH great story dude. Except the New York Dolls isn't a MAJOR band, I was talking about major bands. I don't care if they were influenced by VU and New York Dolls is ONE of the many bands that had some influence on GNR. At this rate, anyone will influence anyone your argumentation is bullshit, as usual.

Funny that you should talk about Dee Dee I'm actually reading Poison Heart, Surviving the Ramones; and he was influenced too by the New York Dolls, the Stooges, many of the same bands as GNR. But he doesn't mention VU much.

Anyway I think you got my message, VU isn't that big.

Actually i was making fun of you.

Fail.

Does one have to say or even be aware of influence? You don't have to see a carbon imprint of an artists music for the influence to be valid. One can be influenced by a spirit or an attitude, again, citing Dee Dee Ramone, he says Television were a huge influence on him, i don't see it in The Ramones music or any of his solo stuff. I don't see none of Elvis in Minor Threat but i can pretty much say as a cast iron guarantee that without Elvis you wouldn't've had Minor Threat, Guns n Roses are part of a lineage of which, many would argue, VU are part of. Velvet Underground are considered the godfathers of punk and Guns n Roses were/are greatly influenced by punk and have stated so in the past, so it stands to reason.

Weird that there is no VU song on the Spaghetti Incident huh? VU is for elitists wealthy people who like to have some "taste", nothing more. They aren't the godfathers of punk, the only thing they got for em is that warhol artwork, there were a lot of punk bands at the same time, they got lucky.

Creating best of's is defining an elite so if elitism is your problem then what the fuck are you doing even operating under things like 'best of'. If they are among the best movies of all time (which many think so) their influence on the evolution of cinema at least is completely fucking undeniable, then you sorta do have to...unless you wanna lie to yourself.

I will take a simple example. Look at the fly, the original movie, and the remake by Cronenberg. The remake is a hundred times better, hands down yet it didn't come up with the concept. How is that? Fuck elitism, bring on your tastes.

It's like if you wanted to bang a chick, would you bang the first lady of humanity which probably was very hairy or Scarlett Johanson? Ok you got my point.

Its one thing to be asked your favorites and another thing to be asked THE best or THE greatest in this instance. One of my favorite movies is Confessions of a Window Cleaner but i'd have to be short a few to go around lauding that as the greatest piece of cinema ever commited to celluloid.

Interesting quote (the only thing interesting you said but still), when you're asked about the greatest stuff you've ever heard, it all comes down to you. Anyway it should. It's not about what you think to others in all objectivity is the best. It's what you've judged the best.

Thank you for your kind words. Y'don't think that maybe there was an analogy buried in there somewhere? "The only difference i see between you and these mythical elitists of lore that you're talking about is that you worship different Gods...and thats it" Think about it cochise

As I said, there's no proof of God. Your analogy doesn't work.

Oh and to Bono: I looked at your nickname and stopped reading.

[Jumpin' Jack Flash]

^ The signature says it all.

[LightningBolt]

King Crimson's In The Court of the Crimson King is the only one that stays definite for me at all times. Another one I'm really digging at the moment, but not always and won't always be considered my "second favorite" is Springsteen's Born To Run.

I'm changing Born To Run to The Stranger.

[wasted]

Chinese Democracy is the Sgt. Peppers of the 21st century.

[D..]

Chinese Democracy is the Sgt. Peppers of the 21st century.

Definitely, will took a while before some people realize it.

[vince41090]

The Beach Boys - Pet Sounds

[Guest Len B'stard]

OOOOH so it's a guy influencing a guy, influencing a guy.

See, you're getting it...slowly but surely.

Except the New York Dolls isn't a MAJOR band, I was talking about major bands. I don't care if they were influenced by VU and New York Dolls is ONE of the many bands that had some influence on GNR.

How exactly do you define a major band? And if you don't care then what the fuck are we talking for? Yes The Dolls are ONE of many bands that had some influence on GnR, any band that i picked would've been one of many, whats your point?

At this rate, anyone will influence anyone

Care to explain that a little? And when you're done doing that, explain why anyone can't influence anyone? Not saying they do but you seem to be incredulous towards the possibility.

Funny that you should talk about Dee Dee I'm actually reading Poison Heart, Surviving the Ramones; and he was influenced too by the New York Dolls, the Stooges, many of the same bands as GNR. But he doesn't mention VU much.

Anyway I think you got my message, VU isn't that big.

The Dolls and The Stooges mention them though...got my message yet?

Fail.

Or maybe you're too stupid to get it. Oops, i'm sorry, am i being an elitist?

Weird that there is no VU song on the Spaghetti Incident huh? VU is for elitists wealthy people who like to have some "taste", nothing more. They aren't the godfathers of punk, the only thing they got for em is that warhol artwork, there were a lot of punk bands at the same time, they got lucky.

There weren't any Elvis songs on Spaghetti Incident either, i suppose that means his music has no influence or relevance to GnR too. There were a lot of punk bands around in 1965? Oh this gets better and better...well g'head, lets have em

I will take a simple example. Look at the fly, the original movie, and the remake by Cronenberg. The remake is a hundred times better, hands down yet it didn't come up with the concept. How is that? Fuck elitism, bring on your tastes.

It's like if you wanted to bang a chick, would you bang the first lady of humanity which probably was very hairy or Scarlett Johanson? Ok you got my point.

Where in any of these do you see me saying that original and better is the same thing? And on the Scarlett Johanson question, your analogy'd make more sense if your asking me about fucking her mother...or her grandmother

Interesting quote (the only thing interesting you said but still), when you're asked about the greatest stuff you've ever heard, it all comes down to you. Anyway it should. It's not about what you think to others in all objectivity is the best. It's what you've judged the best.

No see thats you reinterpreting the question, the question asks what is the greatest album of all time, not what is the greatest album you've ever heard, or the greatest album in your opinion, it just says what is the greatest album of all time, there's no implication in that sentence that your taste is whats sought.

As I said, there's no proof of God. Your analogy doesn't work.

I'm not sure whether you're REALLY that stupid or you're being purposely obtuse but i'll explain anyway. The only difference between you and elitists seems to be that you worship different Gods means that the difference between you and the VU eltists you speak of is almost non existent. The inherent behaviour is identical, only you worship Guns n Roses or RATM instead of VU, hence the phrase "worship different Gods" i wasn't seriously suggesting that Axl Rose or Lou Reed are some kind of deity

Or are you seriously suggesting that because there is no proof of God that sentence doesn't make sense? There's no proof of the devil either, doesn't that mean that the phrase "better the devil you know" or "talk of the devil" don't work and/or make sense?!?!

Edited March 25, 2010 by sugaraylen

[D..]

OOOOH so it's a guy influencing a guy, influencing a guy.

See, you're getting it...slowly but surely.

See, I think you didn't smell the irony.

How exactly do you define a major band? And if you don't care then what the fuck are we talking for? Yes The Dolls are ONE of many bands that had some influence on GnR, any band that i picked would've been one of many, whats your point?

Major Bands: The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Queen, Guns N' Roses. These are the first example that spring to my mind, each of those bands brought up new stuff and mastered them like no one else, that's just there is to say, VU brought nothing new, neither did the dolls.

Care to explain that a little? And when you're done doing that, explain why anyone can't influence anyone? Not saying they do but you seem to be incredulous towards the possibility.

It's the "guy telling a guy telling a guy story", it's like Aids, should we not use any protection while having sex, everyone would eventually get it. Same with your influence thinking, if you're giving me an example of a band influenced by a band influenced by a band, it's never ending story, everyone will have influenced anyone at this rate. I love Muse who were influenced by Nirvana. Does that mean I am influenced by Nirvana? Nope. It's the same story between the VU/NYD/GNR thing, it's nonsense.

The Dolls and The Stooges mention them though...got my message yet?

Same story, I think you don't understand ENGLISH.

Or maybe you're too stupid to get it. Oops, i'm sorry, am i being an elitist?

I'm currently eating a pizza.

There weren't any Elvis songs on Spaghetti Incident either, i suppose that means his music has no influence or relevance to GnR too. There were a lot of punk bands around in 1965? Oh this gets better and better...well g'head, lets have em

The Spaghetti incident is basically a fake punk record made with the hard rock feel, Elvis wasn't punk, hence not on the Spaghetti Incident, hence why Queen isn't on the album as well... Are you too retarded to understand that? OKAY, let's move on.

Where in any of these do you see me saying that original and better is the same thing? And on the Scarlett Johanson question, your analogy'd make more sense if your asking me about fucking her mother...or her grandmother

My analagoy was a perfect example to your nonsense: saying that the original is the best because it set up new standards, it's perfectly logical to choose the first lady of mankind and a lady of nowadays.

No see thats you reinterpreting the question, the question asks what is the greatest album of all time, not what is the greatest album you've ever heard, or the greatest album in your opinion, it just says what is the greatest album of all time, there's no implication in that sentence that your taste is whats sought.

It always come down to your opinion. Always. No matter how the question is asked. Unless it's maths.

I'm not sure whether you're REALLY that stupid or you're being purposely obtuse but i'll explain anyway. The only difference between you and elitists seems to be that you worship different Gods means that the difference between you and the VU eltists you speak of is almost non existent. The inherent behaviour is identical, only you worship Guns n Roses or RATM instead of VU, hence the phrase "worship different Gods" i wasn't seriously suggesting that Axl Rose or Lou Reed are some kind of deity

English isn't your native language is it? Your affirmation would have made more sense the way you explain it, and I will answer this: I don't worship anyone, I don't love GNR or Chinese Democracy because I was told it was the best, on the very contrary I decide to listen to it because I truly think it's the best thing I've ever heard, whereas most VU fans are wealthy knowitall people who think it's the best because they've been told it's the best.You should say what you really love, not what you were told to love.

It's very funny that Axl's last tweet was about the audience. He says that where they're touring, people don't pay attention to critics and that they choose to love what they love, it's exactly what I was talking about on this thread.

[SpUd_Jr]

God you're fucking stupid.

[Shuffle]

[Street_Of_Dreams]

I was gonna type up a huge post explaining how wrong this D. character is, but I realized its a waste of my time and Frank/Lenny already has it covered.

So in short, you are terribly wrong, and the VU is amazing.

Your cupcake skills are great though, you managed to derail the whole thread and waste countless users time reading your drivel. For that I award you 9/10 cupcake points and send you on your way

[Wando]

VU & Nico.

[D..]

So in short, you are terribly wrong, and the VU is amazing.

Cool story man.

[Guest Len B'stard]

See, I think you didn't smell the irony.

I suggest you look the word up

Major Bands: The Rolling Stones, The Beatles, Pink Floyd, Queen, Guns N' Roses. These are the first example that spring to my mind, each of those bands brought up new stuff and mastered them like no one else, that's just there is to say, VU brought nothing new, neither did the dolls.

What exactly was it that The Rolling Stones or Guns n Roses or Queen bring up that was new?!?!

It's the "guy telling a guy telling a guy story", it's like Aids, should we not use any protection while having sex, everyone would eventually get it. Same with your influence thinking, if you're giving me an example of a band influenced by a band influenced by a band, it's never ending story, everyone will have influenced anyone at this rate.

Not really...the rationale doesn't apply if you take saayyy...Kenny G and GG Allin

I love Muse who were influenced by Nirvana. Does that mean I am influenced by Nirvana?

Yes because Muse (not that i know shit about them) if they're influenced by Nirvana therefore them as you know them and have come to know them are the way they are, to whatever small or large degree, because Nirvana existed. Had they not, they might be a different sorta band, or not been a band at all, or missed an ingridient that made it so they never got signed...see what im saying? Reality is a one shot only thing and what you see around you is as a result of what someone else did, thats how it works. If your mother and father had fucked an hour or a week or a year after when they did to produce you, the resultant product would not be you, thats how nature works, are you following?

The Spaghetti incident is basically a fake punk record made with the hard rock feel, Elvis wasn't punk, hence not on the Spaghetti Incident, hence why Queen isn't on the album as well... Are you too retarded to understand that? OKAY, let's move on.

Oh, OK, i suppose The Skyliners Since I Don't Have You was punk? And Look at your Game girl, thats punk too? Nazareth, T Rex, these are punk bands right?

It always come down to your opinion. Always. No matter how the question is asked. Unless it's maths.

So everytime a question is asked of you, outside of mathmatics, its always asking your opinion?

English isn't your native language is it? Your affirmation would have made more sense the way you explain it

It sure is pal but it looks like i'm gonna hafta get fluent in Asshole before this debate is over. Is English yours? Reason i ask is that i had to hold your hand and walk you through a simple analogy like "the only difference between you and elitists is you worship different Gods" like i was taking a fuckin window licker to the zoo.

Your affirmation would have made more sense the way you explain it, and I will answer this: I don't worship anyone, I don't love GNR or Chinese Democracy because I was told it was the best, on the very contrary I decide to listen to it because I truly think it's the best thing I've ever heard

I don't believe you, i think you're a fashion victim and a blowhard. I think you like Guns n Roses cuz its standard kinda mainstream stuff and you don't have the intellectual wherewithal to grasp what bands like VU do.

You should say what you really love, not what you were told to love.

Yet there you are telling every VU fan under the sun that they don't love/like VU. BTW, you still ain't told me what punk bands were around in 1965 as per your statement:

They aren't the godfathers of punk, the only thing they got for em is that warhol artwork, there were a lot of punk bands at the same time, they got lucky.

Y'know, i'm starting to understand what the D.. stands for

Edited March 28, 2010 by sugaraylen

[Izzy's Gurl]

Ugh, it is pretty hard to pick only two greatest albums of alltime! If I have to choose...here are my two:

117 - Izzy Stradlin (surprise, surprise)

Appetite for Destruction - Guns 'N Roses

[Jackie Moon]

obviously this is all about personal opinion...here is mine.

i would judge this based on cover to cover awesomeness, the albums i enjoy most without skipping tracks. AFD is great but anything goes / youre crazy are both lukewarm. not horrible songs just nothin to write home about.

chinese democracy is a hit for me, cover to cover. no misses.

i really like the game's mixtape 'the r.e.d. files'. from bang along thru till camera phone its all good.

honorable mention to contraband. its a bit like AFD as far as every song is solid, some more than others. i always kind of cringe comparing DLT to STB, its the same fucking thing, but beyond that contraband can play cover to cover and its erections all round.

[Guest Len B'stard]

AFD is great but anything goes / youre crazy are both lukewarm. not horrible songs just nothin to write home about.

chinese democracy is a hit for me, cover to cover. no misses.

*looks at him quizzically*

Edited March 29, 2010 by sugaraylen

[LightningBolt]

I skip "Scraped", "I.R.S." and sometimes "Street of Dreams" while listening to Chinese Democracy, so whatever. But, the only reason I skip "Street of Dreams" is because I only listen to the album when I go running, and while "Scraped" and "I.R.S." may be good running songs, I don't like them.

[D..]

See, I think you didn't smell the irony.

I suggest you look the word up

Man your humour is so unpredictable

What exactly was it that The Rolling Stones or Guns n Roses or Queen bring up that was new?!?!

You're pathetic. Live your pathetic helpless life. I'm not even going to answer to your following shit.