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Why are "Axl" songs so overproduced and indulgent?

SylvesterStallone

By SylvesterStallone
in 2006

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SylvesterStallone SUPER GOD

SylvesterStallone

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I love Axl's melodies, he's one of the alltime greatest songwriters. However...as I grow older I can't help but notice the inherent shortcomings of his music. A lot of the songs he has exclusively done himself like "Breakdown", "Locomotive", November Rain, Estranged, and any of the new songs all sound bloated. None sound like a true kick in the face raw rock n roll song. They sound, epic, layered with tons of synth and effects, voiceovers,etc etc. Like a song given a whole new life in the studio.

Is anyone kind of tired of that? Especially the ballads like TWAT, The Blues,etc just sound like they have so many ingredients and musicians playing on them that the effect and soul of the song is lost. Almost like it loses its identity and becomes buried under the sheer amount of instruments and effects used....

I look at other artists who came up around the time of Axl like Parry Farrell, Chris Cornell, Eddie Vedder, Kurt Cobain, Mike Patton,etc and have seen them grow with their fans. They mature as their fans mature, so it's a gradual process...

With Axl's newer music I feel like he hasn't really matured much as a songwriter, he still talks about the same stuff (getting his heart broken by women,etc) and his song structure is still the same verse/guitarsolo/verse,etc with the oddity like better being different...

I've said this before many times but I wish Axl would just make his music more raw. More complicated stuff does not always mean better. Remember Kurt Cobain's acoustic set on MTV? How he wrote beatiful and tragic songs about his life and played them with his bassist and drummer, just 3 people and it came off as poignant and REAL.

Look at the stage, there are lik 7 or 8 musicians basically overwhelming the audience with pyrotechnics and effects. But that's all fluff guys. At some point, behind all the razzle-dazzle, you wish Axl would just strip his music down to it's essence. To me had he done CD like that, it would be huge at the grammys. Axl would have reinvented himself.

But now, we are getting what we already expect, an overproduced effects heavy album like the illusions. Only this album is updated for this era. That's not really a reinvention, but more like a way of following trends and staying relevant.

Your thoughts?

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KBear FRONTMAN

KBear

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I love Axl's melodies, he's one of the alltime greatest songwriters. However...as I grow older I can't help but notice the inherent shortcomings of his music. A lot of the songs he has exclusively done himself like "Breakdown", "Locomotive", November Rain, Estranged, and any of the new songs all sound bloated. None sound like a true kick in the face raw rock n roll song. They sound, epic, layered with tons of synth and effects, voiceovers,etc etc. Like a song given a whole new life in the studio.

Dead Horse is one exception and it's fantastic.

Is anyone kind of tired of that? Especially the ballads like TWAT, The Blues,etc just sound like they have so many ingredients and musicians playing on them that the effect and soul of the song is lost. Almost like it loses its identity and becomes buried under the sheer amount of instruments and effects used....

I'm not really tired of that though. Look, it's Axl's trademark. Nobody really makes music like that. The music industry needs that variety. It needs that option. Want overproduced and indulgent rock? Listen to Axl Rose. I don't see a problem with it. Does the soul and identity become buried. I don't think so. Axl's melodies are so beautiful, his vocals so powerful, that they are not buried at all.

I've said this before many times but I wish Axl would just make his music more raw. More complicated stuff does not always mean better. Remember Kurt Cobain's acoustic set on MTV? How he wrote beatiful and tragic songs about his life and played them with his bassist and drummer, just 3 people and it came off as poignant and REAL.

I can't disagree. I wouldn't want to see Axl go in this direction only, but doing a few songs like that would make a lot of sense. Apparently he's got three albums worth of material...I guess we'll see. You'd expect to hear a bit of diversity over that amount of material.

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SylvesterStallone SUPER GOD

SylvesterStallone

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Don't get me wrong, I love the songs that I mentioned in this thread....however..even these songs have problems...arguably "Breakdown" would be even better without the speaking at the end, locomotive goes on far too long, November Rain also goes on way too long. These songs would be even better if they were stripped down...arguably.

Just think about it, can you imagine Axl Rose with ONE guitarist like Ron Thal and Stinson just sitting in front of an audience and singing a song like Cornell's "Black hole sun"? It's cool he's doing acoustic sets, but this is a 40 year old man singing stuff like "You're crazy", "mr brownstone",etc...cut the shit and write a song about what's going through your head right now man. This guy dissapeared off the face of the earth for over a decade and was fighting his demons....I'm sure he has plenty of issues he wants to talk about....

Perhaps your audience is ready for a mature effort Axl. Are people going to be moved by stuff like TWAT and The Blues with their drippy lyrics or a Black Hole Sun/Heart Shaped Box? Songs like that are simpler, they resonate more with people imho. When you layer music with so much fluff and instrumentation, it disconnects the audience....

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Martoine DEMI-GOD

Martoine

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"Breakdown" would be even better without the speaking at the end

No

locomotive goes on far too long

No

November Rain also goes on way too long

No

These songs would be even better if they were stripped down...

No

arguably

I mean it's cool you voice your opinion.. But I disagree.

i also have to disagree with you... all based on taste though and as long as you are happy with it then im happy

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nameless_girl FRONTMAN

nameless_girl

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I agree with a lot of what you've said, SylvesterStallone and Ziggy Stardust.

GNR seem to be playing either songs from the good old times, most of which don't really apply anymore (seriously - Axl singing stuff like Rocket Queen nowadays sounds rather silly in my opinion), or new songs, most of which sound very overproduced. I'd rather have Axl reinvent himself and write less technologically polished, yet more "human" and raw material. Gritty music that would show us that he's matured and speak straight to us about whatever's in his soul these days.

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sarsura Senior

sarsura

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I totally respect your opinion, Syl, but it's a matter of taste. Besides, that's Axl's style!! When you hear those songs, you know is Axl's work!! :D

If he changes that, he would be like everybody, and this is him, this is raw. This is his way to do it. You can talk about Nirvana, but I know a lot of people who can't even listen to Nirvana, so at the end it's a matter of taste. ;)

I think he should not change his style, unless he feels like doing it. Remember that music is art, and it express Axl's feelings. We'd like it, if we feel the same, or if we understand it.

Anyway, that's your opinion, and I totally respect it, but I love Axl's music!! :wub:

Edited by sarsura
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potbreath DEMI-GOD

potbreath

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Axl singing almost all of Appetite=lame

Locomotive, Breakdown=Two of my favorites

The Blues=Terrible

But the rest of the songs are pretty cool IMO, both the more stripped down (like IRS) and the complicated ones (Madagascar).......except the lyrics to TWAT are pretty shitty.

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EccoTides DEMI-GOD

EccoTides

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As someone else already said, Axl is good at writing those kinds of songs - I happen to love all the vocal layering in certain songs (CITR in particular), and the fact that he's writing "shorter" epic songs in the form of There Was a Time (compared to the way overlong Locomotive and NR), and I dig the effects in The Blues.

That said, I really think this band, like the old band, could benefit from doing a LIES style record - Just get the guys in a room to jam, with minimal extra stuff - Focus on a stripped down and natural creative process rather than processing three songs into one, and they could get something special out of it.

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UYIllusion Senior

UYIllusion

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There are certainly a few overdone, bloated songs that Axl was in charge of. I also agree that songs like Breakdown, Locomotive and NR are too long. However, that is not every epic. Estranged, Coma, and Civil War keep progressing while the first 3 become repetitive. I personally welcome Axl's taste and I'll be more than happy when a song takes too long rather than too short.

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PrettyTiedUp763 DEMI-GOD

PrettyTiedUp763

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There are certainly a few overdone, bloated songs that Axl was in charge of. I also agree that songs like Breakdown, Locomotive and NR are too long. However, that is not every epic. Estranged, Coma, and Civil War keep progressing while the first 3 become repetitive. I personally welcome Axl's taste and I'll be more than happy when a song takes too long rather than too short.

Well said! ;)

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bax DEMI-GOD

bax

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If I want to hear stripped down rock songs, I will listen to AFD. As a musician, I truly enjoy epic arrangements that are complex and reveal something new to the listener with each listen. As has been previously stated, Axl is a big fan of Queen, and most of their songs were pretty grandiose. I do realize that that stuff doesn't appeal to the masses, but I don't think Axl is too concerned with what the average music listener thinks. He is trying to please himself and find his place in the pantheon of legendary bands like Floyd and Zeppelin.

Having said that, I would love to hear stripped down versions of some of the more elaborate songs. There is a certain power to just a voice and a guitar/piano, and I am sure at some point Axl will revisit that style of music. It's not fair to ask an artist to compromise their integrity by forcing them to record songs in a way they aren't happy with. It's all about self-expression and there is no arguing taste.

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Longpig GOD

Longpig

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I wouldn't say (the song) Chinese Democracy, IRS, Better and Madagascar are particularly over-blown.

I think there will be a mixture of ballad/epic songs and rawer stuff. I suppose a bit like the illusions, but hopefully without the fillers. Axl's head goes off in many directions and he likes many styles of music, so I hope and expect the album to reflect this.

13 songs of epics isn't going to happen, and I think a mixture would be perfect. I mean CITR is a great song - fairly short (in comparison with illusion era ballads) and epic, so I think he has learnt from the past regarding song length. I mean thinking about it CITR could easily be 10 minutes long, but it's half that.

LP

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blake-a-mania Full

blake-a-mania

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im sorry did i just read that november rain shoul have been stripped down

november rain is a work of art all of the synths are just extra tools and this is just the perfect way to use them. If this song was stripped down it would not have worked it needs everything to show all of the heart and tears that the song is about as with estranged axl is more of a musical composer than a song writer

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rock chick Junior

rock chick

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Axl's songs are like this because he wants them to be, some of the songs you mentioned are my favourites anyway

Estranged, November Rain and Breakdown are modern classics, they are works of art and should be appreciated as such, if you don't like them then skip to the next song :anger:

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