Economics

[Gunzen]

Okay, so it is common practice for just about EVERYTHING ever sold in the HISTORY OF THE WORLD to be discounted as marketability declines. It is called supply and demand. Didnt anybody ever take economics?

I realize that you are upset, but by paying full price you were guaranteed your seats. I am sure most of those 20 buck seats are lousy in relation to the original seats. You paid the full price to GUARANTEE YOUR SEAT. All those people who paid less took a chance, or didnt care enought etc.

And just so you know, a concert is a "cash grab" just like every other FUCKING THING MARKETED AND SOLD ON ThIS PLANET, it is called CAPITALISM. How many of you work for less than what the market bears for your trade??? These are very basic principles of a free trade world. If you do not want to risk losing a few bucks to secure your seat, then dont buy the GODDAM TICKETS.

It is not like Axl is mailing it in and playing for an hour or so and walking around, he is busting his ass out there, and I challenge anyone to show me any video of him dogging it on this tour.

Just be glad he doesnt have the ego to just cancel.

You all complained about Axl giving up, now he is trying to finish the tour, fill up the shows (whichg makes it more fun) and you still bitch.

Perhaps school would help? I dunno, crack an economics book?

Noone wants ro buy something that goes on sale the next day, but it happens. Should Sony go out of business and refund everyone when the PS3 goes on sale in a year or so??

Edited November 22, 2006 by Gunzen

[wasted]

Bottom line it's all about the De Niros people.

[Gunzen]

Bottom line it's all about the De Niros people.

WTF?

[icet224]

Bottom line it's all about the De Niros people.

WTF?

I believe he meant its all about the dineros, he's trying to say its all about the cash, the green, the dough, they pay, however you choose to say it, he meant dinero, which if memory serves, is Spanish for money, but, he made it two words and made it plural, and capitalised it like Robert De Niro's name, meaning he probably had no idea what he was writing, only what he meant to say

[Gunzen]

Bottom line it's all about the De Niros people.

WTF?

I believe he meant its all about the dineros, he's trying to say its all about the cash, the green, the dough, they pay, however you choose to say it, he meant dinero, which if memory serves, is Spanish for money, but, he made it two words and made it plural, and capitalised it like Robert De Niro's name, meaning he probably had no idea what he was writing, only what he meant to say

heh, oh

[Irs Better Catcher in the Twat]

So wait, Robert De Niro is writing Economics books now??

[RJ88]

dammit, reading the title just reminded me how much i hate my economics class

[wasted]

Syntax was fucked.

[KBear]

Let me put it this way. I have a problem with the tour if it's nothing more than a cash grab. I have no problem with it if it's a cash grab in support of Chinese Democracy. The album is all that matters. Albums are why bands tour. Doing so repeatedly without one will only damage a band's credibility.

The problem is that the later things get this year without anything happening (and by anything I mean official news or just one freaking rumour that would pan out already instead of being bullshit), the more doubt starts to creep into our minds. We've seen this movie before, right? And today is November 21st! So you can hardly blame fans for becoming antsy. I hope nobody says any garbage about live your life, or Axl owes us nothing. We are fans. Fans itch for new music. That is how it is supposed to work. If you aren't dying to hear new Axl music already I wonder how big a fan you really are. After a decade I'm about ready for it. The frustration on the forums are just fans who feel the same way. I took Axl's comments to heart this year (it was a specific comment from the horse's mouth after all) so if '06 passes with nary a word I will definitely be disappointed, and if he doesn't owe us an explanation now he would certainly owe us one then.

Edited November 22, 2006 by KBear

[Gunzen]

Let me put it this way. I have a problem with the tour if it's nothing more than a cash grab. I have no problem with it if it's a cash grab in support of Chinese Democracy. The album is all that matters. Albums are why bands tour. Doing so repeatedly without one will only damage a band's credibility.

The problem is that the later things get this year without anything happening (and by anything I mean official news or just one freaking rumour that would pan out already instead of being bullshit), the more doubt starts to creep into our minds. We've seen this movie before, right? And today is November 21st! So you can hardly blame fans for becoming antsy. I hope nobody says any garbage about live your life, or Axl owes us nothing. We are fans. Fans itch for new music. That is how it is supposed to work. If you aren't dying to hear new Axl music already I wonder how big a fan you really are. After a decade I'm about ready for it. The frustration on the forums are just fans who feel the same way. I took Axl's comments to heart this year (it was a specific comment from the horse's mouth after all) so if '06 passes with nary a word I will definitely be disappointed, and if he doesn't owe us an explanation now he would certainly owe us one then.

To me, I go to tour shows to see live music, albums may result. But I like seeing them in person, that is just me.

[KBear]

Of course I go to a show to see live music. November 15th, for all my whining, was an awesome show.

But shows and albums go hand in hand. You put on concerts to showcase and promote your album to fans.

And GN'R hasn't released an album in fifteen years. How long would you prefer to wait?

[Gunzen]

Of course I go to a show to see live music. November 15th, for all my whining, was an awesome show.

But shows and albums go hand in hand. You put on concerts to showcase and promote your album to fans.

And GN'R hasn't released an album in fifteen years. How long would you prefer to wait?

Hey, if you went to the show, and admitted it is a little bit of whining, I can respect that. I was just left in awe after Sept 2o that I just decided to be glad for whatever i could get.(dec 13, 15 coming up!!!! But I feel ya. Hope you get what you want, I did.

[axlslash]

To me, music is much more than a cash grab. This is where I think music has destroyed the music industry. I saw Bruce Springsteen & The Seeger Sessions Band back in june. I paid 80 dollars to be about 12-15 feet from The Boss. The stadium was a half-house set up, and that half house was only half full. Renting out an entire basketball stadium and only selling a quarter of it out is hardly a cash grab; hell, Bruce probably lost money on that show! The whole US tour was like that. I think his home state of NJ were the only place where he sold out. The tour was not what an economic music fan would call "successful." But you know what? You're forgetting a key component of economics: opportunity cost. True, you make a larger accounting proffit by doing what's marketable in the music world, but you make a much smaller economic proffit at the opportunity cost of hapiness. I saw Bruce do what was marketable (an E Street Band show in 2003), and I saw Bruce play the music that makes him happy (Seeger Sessions) and you know what? There was a clear difference. The people not in GA for the Seeger Sessions show sat and were silent for most of the show, and it didn't phase The Boss. No matter how empty or quiet the stands were, he had his handfull of us diehards in the pit dancing and singing along, and the 200 of us in the main pit (closest to stage) were all he needed. The rest of the arena could have been empty - hell, we probably didn't even have to be there - and Bruce would have put on a great show. He wouldn't do it for money, he'd do it for pleasure and for the utility of playing great music with a great band. Who needs marketability for the music business when you could have hapiness? Maybe it's because to so many, the music business has become just that: a business. Whether or not music is purely based on marketability, I'm glad I still have Bruce to play me music for the sake of the music and not the de nieros. His tour may have lost money overall, but to me it was still a great success.

Also, KBear, that aint true at all. I saw The Who in 2002 with no album to support. I've seen Bob Dylan three times, only once promoting a CD. I saw Queen + Paul Rodgers who toured purely because they could. I saw Eric Clapton without an album to support. I've seen Arlo Guthrie 6 times, never in support of anything but music. Some performers, radical notion though it may be, tour not to promote but because THEY ENJOY PLAYING MUSIC.

Edited November 22, 2006 by axlslash

[Gunzen]

To me, music is much more than a cash grab. This is where I think music has destroyed the music industry. I saw Bruce Springsteen & The Seeger Sessions Band back in june. I paid 80 dollars to be about 12-15 feet from The Boss. The stadium was a half-house set up, and that half house was only half full. Renting out an entire basketball stadium and only selling a quarter of it out is hardly a cash grab; hell, Bruce probably lost money on that show! The whole US tour was like that. I think his home state of NJ were the only place where he sold out. The tour was not what an economic music fan would call "successful." But you know what? You're forgetting a key component of economics: opportunity cost. True, you make a larger accounting proffit by doing what's marketable in the music world, but you make a much smaller economic proffit at the opportunity cost of hapiness. I saw Bruce do what was marketable (an E Street Band show in 2003), and I saw Bruce play the music that makes him happy (Seeger Sessions) and you know what? There was a clear difference. The people not in GA for the Seeger Sessions show sat and were silent for most of the show, and it didn't phase The Boss. No matter how empty or quiet the stands were, he had his handfull of us diehards in the pit dancing and singing along, and the 200 of us in the main pit (closest to stage) were all he needed. The rest of the arena could have been empty - hell, we probably didn't even have to be there - and Bruce would have put on a great show. He wouldn't do it for money, he'd do it for pleasure and for the utility of playing great music with a great band. Who needs marketability for the music business when you could have hapiness? Maybe it's because to so many, the music business has become just that: a business. Whether or not music is purely based on marketability, I'm glad I still have Bruce to play me music for the sake of the music and not the de nieros. His tour may have lost money overall, but to me it was still a great success.

Also, KBear, that aint true at all. I saw The Who in 2002 with no album to support. I've seen Bob Dylan three times, only once promoting a CD. I saw Queen + Paul Rodgers who toured purely because they could. I saw Eric Clapton without an album to support. I've seen Arlo Guthrie 6 times, never in support of anything but music. Some performers, radical notion though it may be, tour not to promote but because THEY ENJOY PLAYING MUSIC.

word...I have been trying to tell these negs maybe axl just wants to wing it and have fun and is trying. Curse the thought he is actually just gong with the flow and playing some great music for those who can go.

[Dead Flower]

word...I have been trying to tell these negs maybe axl just wants to wing it and have fun and is trying. Curse the thought he is actually just gong with the flow and playing some great music for those who can go.

Well, fuck, maybe he should actually come out and say that's what he is doing.

Seriously if he's so fucking washed-up and creatively bankrupt that he can't produce ONE album after investing 13 million and the best part of a decade to the project, then he should just swallow his pride and admit that he couldn't do it by himself.

But, no, instead he talks about his brave new sound, his Queen-like arrangements, and calls the tour the "Chinese Democracy tour". No wonder he couldn't work with his old bandmates anymore - that sort of shit is beyond them, isn't it?

If he want this to be a nostalgic act, fine. I personally think it's kind of stupid when Axl's the only member of the real band left, but there would at least be some dignity about his honesty. There's nothing really wrong with playing songs like WTTJ, PC and SCOM to an audience. They're great songs. Just be honest about it.

[Gunzen]

word...I have been trying to tell these negs maybe axl just wants to wing it and have fun and is trying. Curse the thought he is actually just gong with the flow and playing some great music for those who can go.

Well, fuck, maybe he should actually come out and say that's what he is doing.

Seriously if he's so fucking washed-up and creatively bankrupt that he can't produce ONE album after investing 13 million and the best part of a decade to the project, then he should just swallow his pride and admit that he couldn't do it by himself.

But, no, instead he talks about his brave new sound, his Queen-like arrangements, and calls the tour the "Chinese Democracy tour". No wonder he couldn't work with his old bandmates anymore - that sort of shit is beyond them, isn't it?

If he want this to be a nostalgic act, fine. I personally think it's kind of stupid when Axl's the only member of the real band left, but there would at least be some dignity about his honesty. There's nothing really wrong with playing songs like WTTJ, PC and SCOM to an audience. They're great songs. Just be honest about it.

Do me a favor dead, can you please supply me with the quote from Axl that proves he is a liar? I mean maybe he meant for the album to come out but shit went wrong? I mean, it isnt like he said "The album will beout on so and so date and then said, hah jk". Maybe shit is going on? Maybe he is psychologically unbalanced or maybe he has obsessive compulsive disorder and can't release the album cause it isnt perfect (hmmm).

And as far as him being the only member of the band left...umm so. He is the singer. It isnt like he is the bass player or guitarist and then tried to play GNR, we have seen that disaster, and they are good but the GNR tunes are awful.

All kidding aside, we dont know why people do things they do. Unless we find out later by an admission, you just have to assume....nothing. People have problems dude. And he might.

I just go by facts, see all of my posts. Not picking on you dead. You have made very good points before, I have seen them, but you just cant know.

Fact: the shows are great, he is trying hard. That is all we see. So I am gonna extrapaulate it and assume he is trying hard with the album too.

Fact: They are amazing in concert. even the negs dont trash his performances. He gets great reviews by people who would love to condem him.

Fact: The only people who condemn him I see are on this site.

Washed up? You mean like Bret Michaels? Steven Pearcy? Mike Reno?