The US Dollar Turns 100 Years Old

[Facekicker]

Economists are about as reliable as your average "psychic".

As opposed to who? Alex Jones?

Both your and Mags' argument would be much more credible if you would show some real data or at least state a theory on how any of it would or could happen. And I'm actually being sincere about this.

People have been stating that the dollar is going to crash for the last 50 years....this is nothing new. I just want to see opinions on how and why you think this will happen?

I haven't presented any argument here nor have I ever expressed any interest or endorsement of Alex Jones.

I'm merely amused by what I'm reading, which is so status quo I have to wonder is your name Rick Parfitt by any chance?

You do know there is a reason why economics is referred to as the dismal science?

[Roush]

Economists are about as reliable as your average "psychic".

As opposed to who? Alex Jones?

Both your and Mags' argument would be much more credible if you would show some real data or at least state a theory on how any of it would or could happen. And I'm actually being sincere about this.

People have been stating that the dollar is going to crash for the last 50 years....this is nothing new. I just want to see opinions on how and why you think this will happen?

Typically these ideas are short on data, and long on emotional platitudes, and compelling YouTube videos set to the Requiem For A Dream soundtrack.

[magisme]

What "real data" have you shown, KK?

Anyway, stuff like this begins to happen:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-exporters-losing-ground-china-by-not-using-renminbi-currency-1455943

HSBC is forecasting the RMB to be a fully convertible currency by 2017 – meaning that forex traders will be able to buy, sell, lend and borrow in the currency offshore.

It's all part of the Chinese government's plans to gradually liberalise and internationalise the currency. One-third of China's international trade will be settled in RMB by 2015. In order for this figure to grow further, it will require full convertibility.

The bank's head of RMB business development for EMEA David Pavitt said that, in the near future, he expects that traders will be able to convert sterling to RMB, which will lead to a reduction in costs for UK businesses using the currency, since currently it needs to be converted into dollars, then into sterling (and vice versa), with the currency holder incurring a fee at every step.

And this:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/11/14/Russia-moves-away-from-dollar-embraces-Chinese-currency/5241415977738/?spt=rrs∨=1

Direct transactions between the Russian and Chinese currencies amounted to $5.2 billion in October, up from $307 million in September, the Chinese central bank's China Foreign Exchange Trading System reported.

"Volumes are picking up as both countries aren't against using their own currencies instead of the dollar for mutual transactions. I expect the turnover to grow," Evgeny Gavrilenkov, a currency strategist at Mosciow's Sberbank Rossii, told the Wall Street Journal.

And this:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-brics-the-eurasian-economic-union-eeu-and-the-shanghai-cooperation-organization-sco-towards-a-new-global-financial-architecture/5413714

The BRICS met in 2013 in Durban, South Africa, to, among other steps, create their own credit rating agency, sidelining the “biased agendas” of the Moody’s/Standard & Poor’s variety. They endorsed plans to create a joint foreign exchange reserves pool. Initially it will include US$100 billion. It’s called a self-managed contingent reserve arrangement (CRA).

During the July (2014) BRICS Summit in Brazil the five members agreed to directly confront the West’s institutional economic dominance. The BRICS agreed to establish the New Development Bank (NDB) based in Shanghai , pushed especially by India and Brazil, a concrete alternative to the Western-dominated World Bank and the Bretton Woods system. With initial authorized capital of $100 billion, including $50 billion of equally shared initial subscribed capital, it will become one of the largest multilateral financial development institutions. Importantly, it will be open for other countries to join.

In addition, the creation of the Contingent Reserve Arrangement, or currency reserve pool, initially sized at $100 billion, will help protect the BRICS countries against short-term liquidity pressures and international financial shocks. Together with the NDB these new instruments will contribute to further co-operation on macroeconomic policies.

According to Conn Hallinan – in his article Move Over, NATO and IMF: Eurasia Is Coming – the BRICS’ construction of a Contingent Reserve Arrangement will give its members emergency access to foreign currency, which might eventually dethrone the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. The creation of a development bank will make it possible to bypass the IMF for balance-of-payment loans, thus avoiding the organization’s onerous austerity requirements.

Like I've said, this takes time and the process is uneven, but the process has begun.

[Ace Nova]

Economists are about as reliable as your average "psychic".

As opposed to who? Alex Jones?

Both your and Mags' argument would be much more credible if you would show some real data or at least state a theory on how any of it would or could happen. And I'm actually being sincere about this.

People have been stating that the dollar is going to crash for the last 50 years....this is nothing new. I just want to see opinions on how and why you think this will happen?

I haven't presented any argument here nor have I ever expressed any interest or endorsement of Alex Jones.

I'm merely amused by what I'm reading, which is so status quo I have to wonder is your name Rick Parfitt by any chance?

You do know there is a reason why economics is referred to as the dismal science?

I wouldn't know. Other than some basic courses in college, I never studied it that much. I know that people have been stating that the dollar is going to crash for decades and it has yet to happen. And when I use the little that I do know about the dollar and economics and put it up against the theories of people that state it's going to crash, every theory I've heard makes little to no sense.

[Roush]

The BRICS bank, if anything, is more of a political stronghold against the IMF's perceived dominion (even though the Bank for International Settlements is the real culprit.)

[downzy]

What "real data" have you shown, KK?

Anyway, stuff like this begins to happen:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-exporters-losing-ground-china-by-not-using-renminbi-currency-1455943

HSBC is forecasting the RMB to be a fully convertible currency by 2017 – meaning that forex traders will be able to buy, sell, lend and borrow in the currency offshore.

It's all part of the Chinese government's plans to gradually liberalise and internationalise the currency. One-third of China's international trade will be settled in RMB by 2015. In order for this figure to grow further, it will require full convertibility.

The bank's head of RMB business development for EMEA David Pavitt said that, in the near future, he expects that traders will be able to convert sterling to RMB, which will lead to a reduction in costs for UK businesses using the currency, since currently it needs to be converted into dollars, then into sterling (and vice versa), with the currency holder incurring a fee at every step.

And this:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/11/14/Russia-moves-away-from-dollar-embraces-Chinese-currency/5241415977738/?spt=rrs&or=1

Direct transactions between the Russian and Chinese currencies amounted to $5.2 billion in October, up from $307 million in September, the Chinese central bank's China Foreign Exchange Trading System reported.

"Volumes are picking up as both countries aren't against using their own currencies instead of the dollar for mutual transactions. I expect the turnover to grow," Evgeny Gavrilenkov, a currency strategist at Mosciow's Sberbank Rossii, told the Wall Street Journal.

And this:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-brics-the-eurasian-economic-union-eeu-and-the-shanghai-cooperation-organization-sco-towards-a-new-global-financial-architecture/5413714

The BRICS met in 2013 in Durban, South Africa, to, among other steps, create their own credit rating agency, sidelining the “biased agendas” of the Moody’s/Standard & Poor’s variety. They endorsed plans to create a joint foreign exchange reserves pool. Initially it will include US$100 billion. It’s called a self-managed contingent reserve arrangement (CRA).

During the July (2014) BRICS Summit in Brazil the five members agreed to directly confront the West’s institutional economic dominance. The BRICS agreed to establish the New Development Bank (NDB) based in Shanghai , pushed especially by India and Brazil, a concrete alternative to the Western-dominated World Bank and the Bretton Woods system. With initial authorized capital of $100 billion, including $50 billion of equally shared initial subscribed capital, it will become one of the largest multilateral financial development institutions. Importantly, it will be open for other countries to join.

In addition, the creation of the Contingent Reserve Arrangement, or currency reserve pool, initially sized at $100 billion, will help protect the BRICS countries against short-term liquidity pressures and international financial shocks. Together with the NDB these new instruments will contribute to further co-operation on macroeconomic policies.

According to Conn Hallinan – in his article Move Over, NATO and IMF: Eurasia Is Coming – the BRICS’ construction of a Contingent Reserve Arrangement will give its members emergency access to foreign currency, which might eventually dethrone the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. The creation of a development bank will make it possible to bypass the IMF for balance-of-payment loans, thus avoiding the organization’s onerous austerity requirements.

Like I've said, this takes time and the process is uneven, but the process has begun.

I wouldn't argue that it isn't necessarily a sign that things have begun, but what kind of time frame are we looking at here? Nobody can predict what will happen in 25 to 50 years from now, but these are very small gestures when compared to the gross currency transactions that happen every day (somewhere in the $5.3 trillion amount). The arguments I take issue with are those that suggest the US dollar's demise is imminent or likely in the near future (five to ten years). A fully convertible yuan renminbi is inevitable, but whether investors will find it more credible than the U.S. dollar is yet to be seen. Don't forget that China has some severe structural problems itself. There's no guarantee that the Chinese economy will continue to grow at its current pace, as many point to the heavy leveraged positions that most of its state-run operations find themselves. Not suggesting that the Chinese economy has becoming like a house of cards (though many have), but China's rise isn't inevitable. It wasn't too long ago when everyone thought the Japenese were going to take over.

And the BRIC is an overstated concept that grew out of a quarterly report from Goldman Sachs. It's importance has since been proven to be exaggerated, as Russia, Brazil, and India have all seen lacklustre growth and far more economic turbulence than what was originally envisioned when the acronym was originally coined.

[Roush]

You beat me to the punch. I was about to correlate China's perceived rise with Japan's in the eighties. In the same way Japan's housing bubble made up an unhealthy percent of GDP, so too is China's. Heavily subsidised shadow inventory, ghost cities full of empty high rises, and uninhabited, $50 billion replicas of Manhattan may look good on your country's balance sheet -- but only for so long.

If you think the U.S. is disingenuous with its numbers-- this is taking it to a new level. And if I recall, the majority of the BRICS deal is financed by $40 bn of Chinese money. How does China expect to maintain such an enterprise when they can't even help themselves?

Edited November 14, 2014 by Roush

[downzy]

Sorry, having a brain freeze kind of a day. Not noticing my woeful sentence structure until after I hit post.

[magisme]

No one can predict the downfall's timeline, and part of that is exactly what, imo, you're still missing. It's not like you go to bed one night with USD as world reserve currency and then wake up the next morning and it's the renminbi. Unfortunately, we're talking about the outcome of wars, currency wars, trade wars and war wars, all leading to a global rebalance of power. We've been at trade wars for a while, we're entering currency wars, and then, when the living conditions within the major country or countries on the losing side of the currency war hit a critical low, the blame game starts and lots of people get dead. This is long arc history, and who knows when the currency wars climax and when the war wars begin? If you force me to guess, I'd say 20-30 years from now, but I'm just guessing.

And of course China's growth is a sham. Everyone's growth is a sham in financialized everything land. They just happened to push one of the many available full retard buttons. We pushed one too, with QE. But it isn't even about China or Russia supplanting the US. Like I said, it's about strategically important players moving away from a USD dominated system and therefore cracking that system. At no point did I say losing reserve status was imminent. Like Dice pointed out, an economist's predictions about the economy are about as reliable as MLS' predictions about GNR releases. Take a look at GDP forecast revisions from the IMF if you want a real laugh.

Short story: We've passed peak America. We're on the downside now. Exactly where on that downside is all that really up for debate.

[downzy]

No one can predict the downfall's timeline, and part of that is exactly what, imo, you're still missing. It's not like you go to bed one night with USD as world reserve currency and then wake up the next morning and it's the renminbi. Unfortunately, we're talking about the outcome of wars, currency wars, trade wars and war wars, all leading to a global rebalance of power. We've been at trade wars for a while, we're entering currency wars, and then, when the living conditions within the major country or countries on the losing side of the currency war hit a critical low, the blame game starts and lots of people get dead. This is long arc history, and who knows when the currency wars climax and when the war wars begin? If you force me to guess, I'd say 20-30 years from now, but I'm just guessing.

And of course China's growth is a sham. Everyone's growth is a sham in financialized everything land. They just happened to push one of the many available full retard buttons. We pushed one too, with QE. But it isn't even about China or Russia supplanting the US. Like I said, it's about strategically important players moving away from a USD dominated system and therefore cracking that system. At no point did I say losing reserve status was imminent. Like Dice pointed out, an economist's predictions about the economy are about as reliable as MLS' predictions about GNR releases. Take a look at GDP forecast revisions from the IMF if you want a real laugh.

Short story: We've passed peak America. We're on the downside now. Exactly where on that downside is all that really up for debate.

God Mags! Could you hate America any more? Some patriot you are

[Ace Nova]

What "real data" have you shown, KK?

Anyway, stuff like this begins to happen:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-exporters-losing-ground-china-by-not-using-renminbi-currency-1455943

HSBC is forecasting the RMB to be a fully convertible currency by 2017 – meaning that forex traders will be able to buy, sell, lend and borrow in the currency offshore.

It's all part of the Chinese government's plans to gradually liberalise and internationalise the currency. One-third of China's international trade will be settled in RMB by 2015. In order for this figure to grow further, it will require full convertibility.

The bank's head of RMB business development for EMEA David Pavitt said that, in the near future, he expects that traders will be able to convert sterling to RMB, which will lead to a reduction in costs for UK businesses using the currency, since currently it needs to be converted into dollars, then into sterling (and vice versa), with the currency holder incurring a fee at every step.

And this:

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/11/14/Russia-moves-away-from-dollar-embraces-Chinese-currency/5241415977738/?spt=rrs∨=1

Direct transactions between the Russian and Chinese currencies amounted to $5.2 billion in October, up from $307 million in September, the Chinese central bank's China Foreign Exchange Trading System reported.

"Volumes are picking up as both countries aren't against using their own currencies instead of the dollar for mutual transactions. I expect the turnover to grow," Evgeny Gavrilenkov, a currency strategist at Mosciow's Sberbank Rossii, told the Wall Street Journal.

And this:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-brics-the-eurasian-economic-union-eeu-and-the-shanghai-cooperation-organization-sco-towards-a-new-global-financial-architecture/5413714

The BRICS met in 2013 in Durban, South Africa, to, among other steps, create their own credit rating agency, sidelining the “biased agendas” of the Moody’s/Standard & Poor’s variety. They endorsed plans to create a joint foreign exchange reserves pool. Initially it will include US$100 billion. It’s called a self-managed contingent reserve arrangement (CRA).

During the July (2014) BRICS Summit in Brazil the five members agreed to directly confront the West’s institutional economic dominance. The BRICS agreed to establish the New Development Bank (NDB) based in Shanghai , pushed especially by India and Brazil, a concrete alternative to the Western-dominated World Bank and the Bretton Woods system. With initial authorized capital of $100 billion, including $50 billion of equally shared initial subscribed capital, it will become one of the largest multilateral financial development institutions. Importantly, it will be open for other countries to join.

In addition, the creation of the Contingent Reserve Arrangement, or currency reserve pool, initially sized at $100 billion, will help protect the BRICS countries against short-term liquidity pressures and international financial shocks. Together with the NDB these new instruments will contribute to further co-operation on macroeconomic policies.

According to Conn Hallinan – in his article Move Over, NATO and IMF: Eurasia Is Coming – the BRICS’ construction of a Contingent Reserve Arrangement will give its members emergency access to foreign currency, which might eventually dethrone the dollar as the world’s reserve currency. The creation of a development bank will make it possible to bypass the IMF for balance-of-payment loans, thus avoiding the organization’s onerous austerity requirements.

Like I've said, this takes time and the process is uneven, but the process has begun.

this just in...

Russia is leaving the dictatorship of the market where oil goods are based on the dollar and won't back down in face of a drastic drop in world prices on energy resources, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday.

MOSCOW, November 14 (Sputnik) – Russia plans to leave the “dollar dictatorship” of market oil prices and turn to using the country’s national currency and the Chinese yuan, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday.

“We are leaving the dictatorship of the market where oil goods are based on the dollar and will increase the possibilities of using [other] national currencies: the ruble and the yuan,” Putin said in an interview with the Russian state news agency TASS.

On a November 9 meeting on the sidelines of the APEC summit Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping discussed the possibility of using the yuan in transactions in fields of mutual cooperation.

Putin said in his Monday speech at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in China that accounting in the ruble and yuan will most likely weaken the dollar’s influence on the global energy market.

Putin added that possibilities to increase the use of the Russian and Chinese currencies in bilateral trade, particularly in the energy sector, were being studied.

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20141114/1014725978.html

I heard Putin is known to pull some stunts but being in two different countries at the same time is amazing.....

http://www.news.com.au/national/brisbane-g20-2014-russian-president-vladimir-putin-arrives-for-summit-showdown/story-fncynjr2-1227122503924

Putin was in Australia on Friday, for the G20 meeting. Great source there, Ratbrain.

[AdriftatSea]

The value is being propped up by the barrel of a gun.

YIKES! I just had this big disagreement a week or so ago with KK about how I believe this was about oil and 'Petrodollars'... It scares me that I agree with you on this Captain , no seriously, I do agree. You are right on this one. You just explained in these video's what I was trying to explain and couldn't. It's all about the Petrodollars and that simplicity of control. And I see just below your post that Ratbrain agrees with us. You've got it right on this one. Oil & Gas is one topic I'm well informed on. Maybe the only one, but this, I get. Thanks for posting!

BIG BIG EDIT: I DIDN'T WATCH THE THIRD VIDEO DOWNZY... JUST THE FIRST TWO!

Second Edit: And you can brush this off all you want but ISIS has started minting their own money. Think about that. They want nothing to do with anyone else's currency. They understand this game. Now THAT is food for thought!

Edited November 15, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[AdriftatSea]

It's like this, who would have ever dreamed 30 20 years ago that we would now have a Euro?

Edited November 15, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[AdriftatSea]

Ah, I do remember the '80's when everyone thought Japan was going to take over. I agree in that China will be much the same now. They will not reach the heights they claim/believe. They will basically drive themselves into a recession. I'm not thinking China is our big threat or even one country in particular.

Like I've said, this takes time and the process is uneven, but the process has begun.

this just in...


Russia is leaving the dictatorship of the market where oil goods are based on the dollar and won't back down in face of a drastic drop in world prices on energy resources, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday.


MOSCOW, November 14 (Sputnik) – Russia plans to leave the “dollar dictatorship” of market oil prices and turn to using the country’s national currency and the Chinese yuan, Russian President Vladimir Putin said Friday.

“We are leaving the dictatorship of the market where oil goods are based on the dollar and will increase the possibilities of using [other] national currencies: the ruble and the yuan,” Putin said in an interview with the Russian state news agency TASS.

On a November 9 meeting on the sidelines of the APEC summit Putin and Chinese President Xi Jinping discussed the possibility of using the yuan in transactions in fields of mutual cooperation.

Putin said in his Monday speech at the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) summit in China that accounting in the ruble and yuan will most likely weaken the dollar’s influence on the global energy market.

Putin added that possibilities to increase the use of the Russian and Chinese currencies in bilateral trade, particularly in the energy sector, were being studied.

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20141114/1014725978.html

And who said it was 'All about The Benjamin's'... Nope! ...it's all about 'The Petrodollars!'

[Snake-Pit]

If I had a penny for every year the dollar's been a dollar, I'd have £1.

Wait, what?

[Ace Nova]

I agree with you on this Captain , no seriously, I do agree. You are right on this one. You just explained in these video's what I was trying to explain and couldn't. It's all about the Petrodollars and that simplicity of control. And I see just below your post that Ratbrain agrees with us.

FYI, both Captain America and Ratbrain are the token forum conspiracy theorists. They get 99% of their information from Info Wars and Alex Jones.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Kasanova King

[AdriftatSea]

I agree with you on this Captain , no seriously, I do agree. You are right on this one. You just explained in these video's what I was trying to explain and couldn't. It's all about the Petrodollars and that simplicity of control. And I see just below your post that Ratbrain agrees with us.

FYI, both Captain America and Ratbrain are the token forum conspiracy theorists. They get 99% of their information from Info Wars and Alex Jones.

I can't discuss politics with you now. We're getting along so well!

[Ace Nova]

If I had a penny for every year the dollar's been a dollar, I'd have £1.

Wait, what?

I agree with you on this Captain , no seriously, I do agree. You are right on this one. You just explained in these video's what I was trying to explain and couldn't. It's all about the Petrodollars and that simplicity of control. And I see just below your post that Ratbrain agrees with us.

FYI, both Captain America and Ratbrain are the token forum conspiracy theorists. They get 99% of their information from Info Wars and Alex Jones.

I can't discuss politics with you now. We're getting along so well!

I was just giving you a heads up, that's all.

[AdriftatSea]

If I had a penny for every year the dollar's been a dollar, I'd have £1.

Wait, what?

I agree with you on this Captain , no seriously, I do agree. You are right on this one. You just explained in these video's what I was trying to explain and couldn't. It's all about the Petrodollars and that simplicity of control. And I see just below your post that Ratbrain agrees with us.

FYI, both Captain America and Ratbrain are the token forum conspiracy theorists. They get 99% of their information from Info Wars and Alex Jones.

I can't discuss politics with you now. We're getting along so well!

I was just giving you a heads up, that's all.

He would have a pound of pennies. I got it. Get with the program there KK.

Overlapping posts! Thanks for the heads up!

Edited November 15, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[Ace Nova]

If I had a penny for every year the dollar's been a dollar, I'd have £1.

Wait, what?

I agree with you on this Captain , no seriously, I do agree. You are right on this one. You just explained in these video's what I was trying to explain and couldn't. It's all about the Petrodollars and that simplicity of control. And I see just below your post that Ratbrain agrees with us.

FYI, both Captain America and Ratbrain are the token forum conspiracy theorists. They get 99% of their information from Info Wars and Alex Jones.

I can't discuss politics with you now. We're getting along so well!

I was just giving you a heads up, that's all.

He would have a pound of pennies. I got it. Get with the program there KK.

Overlapping posts! Thanks for the heads up!

I did get it...hence the gif.

[AdriftatSea]

No you didn't! LOL... you did the gif to SnakePits comment hahahajh... nvm haha

[Gracii Guns]

Congratulations America, I hope you get a letter from The Queen.

[Ace Nova]

No you didn't! LOL... you did the gif to SnakePits comment hahahajh... nvm haha

Exactly.

The gif stands for mind-blown.

[AdriftatSea]

No you didn't! LOL... you did the gif to SnakePits comment hahahajh... nvm haha

Exactly.

The gif stands for mind-blown.

Oh I know. My comment meant he did save enough, pounds / lbs,... it wasn't funny before I didn't have to explain it. LOL

Congratulations America, I hope you get a letter from The Queen.

Why is your Queen going to write us?

[Gracii Guns]

Congratulations America, I hope you get a letter from The Queen.

Why is your Queen going to write us?

If you reach your 100th birthday, British people relieve a letter from The Queen, probably congratulating you and thanking you for ypur loyalty to breathing.

(I think these days you have to apply for one, but nevertheless, it's yours).