bigcountry

You just know the Axl weirdos will prefer some shitty gig from 2006 rather than the genuine article. Tell me, would you choose The Bootleg Beatles over the Beatles 1963; or how about some shitty Elvis act from Blackpool rather than seeing the real thing in 1956?

I for one think the AM Ring concert was one of the best GNR performances in any incarnation!!!!

Before you bash me I was around in 87 I seen the old band several times and there best show as far as me attending was the first time I seen them and this was before SCOM was ever released.

I am all for everyone feeling one way or another about 87-93 and 94-present GNR. I like both.

Sure in a perfect world they would have stayed together but that is not what we live in.

I look at like I like the new band and the current line up is my favorite as far as the new band goes you may agree or disagree but tha is how I feel.

I will support GNR in any form. Just because I like the new band don't mean I think they are a better band than the orginal and it is unfair to compare any of GNR band line ups and say there where the best because each band was different.

Yes they are more acomplished musicians but that don't mean better.

To me BBF is the best MUSICIAN to every be in GNR. He knows his craft and can play any song in the GNR catolog better than anyone that has been in GNR, now I don't expect slash to shred but BBF can play note for not, note for note with his own flar, which he should.

For me living in the past and not giving the new folks a decent chance is not what being a GNR fan is to me. GNR is what it is and no matter how much people bitch and moan it ain't going to change a thing. If you don't like the new band then move on it's that simple either accept it and take it for what it is or choose not to be apart of it.

CD as a whole was good not great but good.

I instanly liked CD, SR, Better, Riad, IRS and Prostitute

Some songs I was lke WTF is this Catcher, TIL, Sorry, Scaped, IFW and to an exstint Maddy

IFW, Sorry, SOD and Maddy never grew on me, I wish he would have sang Maddy like he did at the VMA's and that would have changed my view on the song I bet.

The songs that grew on me where TWAT, Scaped and TIL.

So from my point of view is was a 50/50 album which isn't bad.

Hell back in the day AFD there where songs my inital impressions where that I didn't like them but after a few months they where some of my favorites.

CD for the average person and die hard fans a like is not a album you can listen to once and give a COMPLETE accessment, but most don't give albums a second or third chance and those that don't do this could just be missing out on something great and I say this about every album not just CD. With CD most that listened to it did not expect the radical change in music direction and also how fragmented the songs are with no single theme that pulls the album together.

CD just had so much stuff coming at you that you could listen to it hundreds of time and hear something new and I feel that is a bad thing even though I like half the album a more stripped down version could have faired betty mainstream. But we got what we got.

If you like it that is great and if don't like that to is great but all this bashing form both sides is so fucking stupid!!!

Thr Ritz concert in 88 was a defining moment for GNR. To say it was the best or even one of the best shows as far as band playing and Axl singing it was not a good night.......

But if you look back at it SCOM just hit and all everyone was hearing and reading is how wild and crazy GNR was and the Ritz show captured that. They played the damn show on MTV all the time and people loved it.

We where all use to seeing the pretty boy image all the time back then and GNR where a shock to the whole system.

You take Moltey Crue who where considered before and even at that time where considered the bad boys of RNR and then GNR hit and they make Motley Crue look nothing more than a hair band with some attitude and next thing you know GNR is get the name of the Most Dangerous Band in the World!!! I bet that got under Motley Crue's skin.

Now don't get me wrong MC was a good band but for me there first record Too fast for love was the best one they put out with SATD being 2, theatre of pain, I know this album had Home Sweet Home but to me that song sucked and the album had only one or two goods song and it was much of the same from there on out for me anyway. I don't judge any album by it's hits I listen to every song and most of the time back then I felt cheated because the 2 songs they release where the only good one's.

In the Ritz show GNR showed there hungry, raw, reckless and crazy side and they played good enough it was still listenable.

I liken the Ritz show to Metallica Seattle 89 shows, it was a live recording of 2 nights mashed into one release. It really showed that Metallica as a band had really come of age and updated there sound on the and justice for all album and applied the new different sound to the old songs live which worked great live!!!

Metallica did however use audience participation alot better and used there energy in a positive way where as GNR did very little audience participation other than KOHD it was like GNR was doing a "show" and the audience should get into it just because we are GNR where Metallica would try to work them into a frenzy every night.

Metallica was more polished at that time and really performed there songs great and the crowd was crazy. Metallica showed there recklessness also but it wasn't the same as GNR.

Fast forward with metallica and when you get to the load and reload albums they went to having just a few good songs per album but I will give credit where credit is due with Death Magnetic they redeemed themselves to point.

I was just using the Ritz and the Seattle show to compare how different the 2 bands where on there way to super startum..

There are so many great bootlegs of GNR out there it is hard to pin point which is "the best" and most of us will like different shows for whatever reason. I am glad all this is out there so we can just go downnload it or just got to youtube and pull up your performce of this or that song and for most of us I would there would be several shows we would pull from to make one perfect for us.

It depends on the definition. If the only genius level persons we know of were persons

such as Da Vinci and Mozart, then maybe he is not a genius. If genius is someone who

has exceptional creative talent, then maybe. There are a lot people writing songs and

melodies, but how many of them are globally popular? Is it enough to be the best of

100 million in something or does one have to be the best of billion to be called a genius?

Many of the melodies on Chi Dem are beautiful, but many of the songs are also a tad dark

and even revengeful in their lyrics and style of production. For most people it is easier to

relate to songs which have a positive, humoristic or hopeful message such as “Imagine”

or all the love songs.

AFD sold 28 million+ copies so people had no issue relating to Mr. Brownstone, Nighttrain, Out to Get Me, and Welcome to the Jungle which are hardly of positive , humoristic and hopeful songs.............if it is good music people will listen and buy it regardless of the theme.........

I am not saying AFD is a bad album, I think it is as close to a perfect album as ANY member of the old band will every achive, it just it's possible.

As fas as sales of 28 million+ that number is inflated due to when the album was released, we had Cassette tapes and records and the new media Compact Disc had yet to catch on but when it did catch fire it was just a few years after AFD release and they where still touring on it and with the media change to CD everyone loved it because of the better sound quality and unless you scratched it up it sounded the same as the day it was bought new years earlier. I also feels Lies was helped alot by the media change and UYI albums also did benefit too but not 2 the exstint of the first to albums.

But the above can be said for most bands in the late 80's early 90's.

I really think a more fair number of sales for AFD would be under 20 million because the media change I bet gave you another 10 million is sales.

AFD as much as we like it most people only liked SCOM, WTTJ and Paridise City and at that time if you have a one hit you your album would sell 5 or more Million copies because of one hit. I knew people and me included if they heard a song the like we bought the CD just for that song and people didn't care if there where any more goods songs on the album as long as the ONE they liked.

Folks that grow up in the late 80's and early 90's know exactly what I am talking about.

If you grow up in the napster era and the downloading of music have no clue as to how many Records, Cassettes and CD's we use to own. For what it is worth I feel the free downloading of music is what has killed the industry and by this I mean bands like Metallica, Bon Jove(can't believe I just typed that) Motley Crue and even the pretty much inactive GNR and the list go on but my point is the money isn't there for huge production in the studio or music videos one at best they might sell 3-4 million CD's but that is a far cry from the 10-15 million they would have sold in the 80's and 90's.

New band don't get the chance they did back then, if there first album flopped they usually got a 2nd or 3rd chance and then some of the bands had that brake through song. That will not happen now or close to 10 years ago. Your larger than life bands just do more touring becuase they can still pack the seats, Metallica is a perfect example of this, it has been what 5-6 years since death magnetic and they have been touring on and off ever since the release with NO signs of a new full length album are anywhere in the future. Because Records sales don't bring the money it is the touring and merchindise side that makes the money now.

I am going to take alot of flack for what I have said and what I am about to say........

We would be better off if it was always impossible to download music we would have more deversity and more bands that live the same story line as did our Metallica's, GNR's, Bon Jovi, Motley Crue ect..........

I do believe Axl could regain what he lost after AFD, Lies and UYI. Back then Axl was very determined, confident and more focused.

AFD was written more in a band setting but IMHO Axl and Izzy where the main song writers as far as the inital structor of the songs with everyone else exspanding on that. I maybe wrong.

Lies was a throw together thing do 2 thing give the fans something to tide them over and make it to where people that where lucky enough to have the orginal Live like a suicide ep couldn't sell them for the big sums they where selling the for prior to Lies.

UYI Is basicaly a band on the verge if braking up in the studio, UYI albums where fragmented in sound because of the contrasting styles each member wanted to use. I think with UYI if Axl wanted song X to be on the album Izzy said you can if I can put my song B on it and so on with the same music by with the other members and songs they put on the album that really where not GNR songs they where started and mostly written by a single member then they said what they wanted it to sound like to fit what music they wanted to make.

I will say out of the UYI album we still have serveral master peices on it and mostly they where songs that where left overs from AFD.

I think back then Axl was a "Icon" back then.

CD I like alot of it but some of it I just don't get and it is just super fragmented.

We need Axl to rise to that "Icon" status that he had back in the late 80's early 90's.

By this I me he needs to get focused, gritty,more in your face songs and most of all his confidence, I think that is really what is is sorely missing.

But he is what 50 does he have the will to rise to it again, slam out a record promote it and say here it is fuck off if you don't like. I think the chances of this happening are slim but I really whish we would leave the CD session stuff behind for now and just get in the studio and slam out a record that is in your face like he was going back to his song writting roots and get it out there. It will still need the softer side of Axl to with 2 power ballads.

All I can is I can only hope!!!

Those rap artist where using racial slurs every few words in there music and you are trying to compare Axl's use of slurs 3 times in one song to that. Folks your priorities are very clouded if you think he got off easy because he didn't. He had to explain himself over and over in the press and guess what the story never changed.........hum. Slash is part black and that was brought up very little in the medias reporting on this song.

3 vs 1000's of racail slurs is a huge difference.

Get a fucking life and stop with the bullshit about how you have been appressed or offended by Axl using 3 slurs when the people you are comparing him to and in some cases defending are a 1000 times worse.

Some of you dumb asses can't see the trees for the forest it just boggles my mind.

If you don't like the song don't listen to it but no it says something offensive so you are going to make it even more popular by bitching and moaning, one day people will relise when they are against something a simple on time of stating what you feel about it is enough but the more you put it out there the bigger it will get. Which IMHO those words where not put in there for a shock factor. ANd even if they where the rap artist you have brought up I bet they done it for the shock value due to the highly over use of slurs.

"So be well and cocktoe is an asshole"

First off Slash was never in the water for NR.

He was also never in the water for estranged it was a double. If you look at what the double is playing during the solo where he raises from the water and it is no where close to the solo.

Slash made a comment in MFV's IV about them wanting him to put a wet suit on and g\he said under these pants, the it showed his double.

I DON"T think Don't Damn Me was an apology for anything. It was more of an explaination of who he is and that he uses life experiances to write most of his music.

It is also about how his mucic can be take one or more ways by different people.

"You stepped into my world I kicked you in mind and I'm the only wittness to the nature of my crime" Made you thing didn't he?

"You take for granted you know the whole story. You judge a book by it's cover and read what you want BETWEEN SELECTED LINES" which to me says you are taking thing out of the context it was sritten in.

One other point I would like to make.

One In a Million was the ONLY time that Axl used the N work, immagrants and F*****ts in a song, I don't know him behind closed doors so beyond that and explaining in an interview that it never happened again.

If he was really a racist, angainst immigrants and homosexuals don't you think he would use those words in his music beyond One in a Million. He was never one to hold him mouth or back down due to negitive press.

I don't think he liked the reaction from the media about the song On in a Million because he was not none of those things they made him out to be.

Do you really think he would have backed down to the press or record company if that was truely the way he felt? No wouldn't happen if the record company faught him he would have done it live on stage, but since that wasn't the type of person he was he never done it.

I am not saying it is right what he done but he is an artist and expressed his struggle coming up in the music seen and artists where and are given alot of slack by the record companies in what they say and do.

So by serveral peoples point of veiw here if you say any of the 3 things he said only once then you are a racist ect...... So what about the blacks and there use of the word they hate so much??????????

One in a Million to was basically a store of when he set out on his quest to make it to Cali. The things he experienced along the way from the low points to making to what he felt was the top. Why he choose to put those words in the song, I have no idea, it could have been just what he had to deal with along the way, which an argument could be made that they still be left out. But from the artist stand point they where very powerful and a part of what he went through and he felt as and artist he shouldn't be censored. Or it was for the shock factor to sell more albums. I really doubt the later because at that time they could have put out just about anything and it would have sold very very well.

To it was nothing my than and artist express HIS view if what he seen and went through on the way up the latter of success.

If black people want to get pissed about the N word then 70% of rap records should be taken off the shelf, the number is probably higher but just to prove a point.

As far a homosexuals he went on to play with Elton John several times, he was a big part of the Freddie Mercury tribute concert. Also I think Robin went both ways and he was in the band, I have no real info to back it up but when I listen to old interviews it just seems that way. And if I am wrong I am sorry.

As far as immigrants he had no ides what they where saying and could have been screwed by them because of the language barrier, I think this was I pretty big deal to him more so than the other 2 things I point out, if you are going to live here you need to learn the language just as people in other countries say if visitors or people that have moved there come in can't get from point a to point b without needing someone to explain in to them in the English language.

AFD WTTJ

Lies Reckless Life

UYI I Right next door to hell

UYI II Get in the ring

SI Down on the Farm

I don't have a problem with DJ more power to him if he wants to put in the time and effort into all of his projects.

Just like I don't have a problem with Slash and all of his different projects. The only thing about Slash is I think he is most likely a lair about what happened behind the scenes with the old band and his efforts to stop Axl from going on with the name GNR. He has an interest in the GNR name but he won't come out and say I stoped Axl from going on with the new band for years due to litigation. If he would just say yeah I done it that would be fine.

As I am also sure Axl done his part also. I am not pro Axl or Slash when it comes to GNR, I just wish we would get an scripted answer to thing that went on but that will never happen.

But I really don't see it as being "NEWS"

GNR is number 4 on the Yahoo treading now. This is the 2nd day in a row.

It all about the DJ's Helicopter ride.

I guess we could call this The Helicoper Incident.

http://ph.news.yahoo.com/vegas-officer-retires-guns-n-39-roses-inquiry-094941465.html

Wonder why they are reporting things that are very minor the GNR world and basicly a very very small dot in world news, a 2 year rental not used and a helicopter ride. Got to be bigger news out there than that.

Could it be that the label and managment are making a point to push this news ahead a something bigger just to get people to see the GNR name and have it fresh on there memory.

Doubt it but why in the hell would they report these 2 things?

Jason Macmasters of Dangerous Toys has the rasp also...

We also have cow bell in this song which is always a plus!!!

Axl did state once that he liked to play Rosie to give him a pick me up becuase he really enjoys playing it live.

I really don't mind the covers with Guns both old and new they would take a cover a make it more popular than it was when it was a new song, ie KOHD and LALD.

Just cut out the solos and it would make for a better show.

When I seen them on the UYI tour one night Slash started his solo and about 30 secs in he said fuck it we didn't come here to play solos and the rest of the came out, there was no drum solo, a small piano solo before NR and that was it and it was a 3 hour and 10 min show. Needless to say I was all GNR'ed out after the concert. I didn't want to hear a GNR song for several days. Which to me was a good thing they put on a hell of show and kicked my ass the whole time.

CD If the world( I consider the worst of any GNR Song), SOD, CITR

UYI So Fine, You aint the first, Get in the Ring, Don't Cry ALT

AFD I know I am going to get stoned for this but for me I hated SCOM, Go figure the biggest hit by my favorite band and I don't like it.

I also remember a time when people on this forum thought that the current band, including Bumble and DJ could never play the more complicated songs off the UYI albums.

Well guess what they nail Estranged and Civil War pretty damn good, most times better than the original band have played it.

If you had Bumble on all the leads on Estranged (which I seem to remember he done that a few times) it would be next to impossible to improve that song live. Dj seems to not get the sound right where as Bumble just fucking nails it!!!!! That is not saying DJ sounds bad just he doesn't nail it like Bumble.

Whine a cry all you want but there is no doubt that Ron could play the whole GNR catalog with no problems what so ever. No he doesn't play them note for note he adds his own flare to it but for some reason on Estranged he is more note for note. But there is no doubt in my mind that live he could play the whole GNR catalog from AFD all the way through CD live note for note better than anyone that has EVER been in GNR.

I no this post will sound pro Ron but I am just giving credit where credit is due.

Anyone ever consider that the tweets, chats, interviews or facebook posting by Bumblefoot are just something to stir the pot out here internet forums.

Alot of folks bitch there is nothing to talk about during down times and he gives us that and the tweet from DJ maybe nothing more than to kindle a fire in world of GNR forums.

The normal reaction is Axl won't put up with Bumbles BS or Bumble is just venting to the fans and standing up for himself.

Bumble has done this so many times and nothing that we know of has ever happened to him as far as the band is concerned. Which if he was pissing Axl and management off, Axl has let people go for alot less that what bumble does.

I know you can say no one can do the shredding parts that Bumblefoot does. But some of you that start in on that are also the ones that say bumble needs to go????????

SO right now we have Bumble tweets from a few weeks ago, band saying they will be very busy next year, DJ tweets that are suppost to be directed at Bumble and Bumble tweets that are suppost to be directed DJ.

Sounds like just keeping the pot stired. They can get in touch with each other numorus other ways that to post it on tweeter.

I will say I think the only thing that Bumble has pushed hard to Axl and management is when they had the very late start times and it took a while but they did get somewhat better.

CD had no where to go but down when it was released. The hype the decade + in the making. Nothing could have lived up to that and all the pressures that go into it.

Yes Axl is partly to blame but you bet your ass that the label and the orginal GNR members made it hell to get this album out. The record company didn't want to release it they wanted a reunion all of Axl's managers, most brought in by the label done the same thing push for a reunion and when Azoff failed to deliver a reunion the label threw in the towel and released CD, plain and simple. I think when Axl turned over CD to the record label he just walked in a said here it is I'm not redoing anything and they both gave each other a FUCK YOU when it was released. The label didn't promote it, Axl didn't promote it and waited a year to tour after it's release.

All in all I think CD is a good album, yes there are 3 songs I don't like but what record doesn't have a few throw away songs on it.

One thing I think would have made it better was that the song should have been stripped down because they had to much coming at you that there is no way you can take it all in and unless you are a big fan you aren't going to get because you will listen to it a time or 2 and give up on it. There where several songs that had to grow on me at first but now they are part of my favorites on the album because I get now.

I hope things pan out

I like the idea of a few new songs. This could be a testing of the waters as to which direction the band will go as far as the theme for the album. Or they maybe left overs from CD sessions. We could also get both!!!

As far as a new record I think that is more in Interscopes hands than Axls. He really pissed them off with CD and they also pissed him off too, so who knows. They can't release a record without Interscope because they are under contract and it isn't like they would just drop GNR, I really believe they have held the band back more than any other person, company or even old band members.

I also wonder if the label could block them from playing anything the wrote/recorded while under contract with Interscope, I hope this is not the case.

Or better yet Axl and the label are on better terms now and are working together, which would be the best thing that could happen.

As far as show I have personally been to is was 87 I beleive when the opened for Alice Cooper. That was the best I ever heard the band and Axl sound out of any of the live shows I was at. It was pure magic.

As far as favorite shows based soley on BHS,DVD or youtube

1. Am Ring 2006 they where just on fire the whole show.

2. RIR III First big show for the new band, all the hype and the huge crowd. I know Axl got weak after about 3/4 of the show but damn it was nice to see them on stage!!!

3. Ritz 88 and I am putting this mainly due to the fact it was very iconic, it was the band the good bad and ugly and that pretty much cemented the bands image as the world most dangerous band, here we are take or leave it, we are going to do this our way. And make no mistake about it this wasn't a very good show as far musical and vocal performance. There are alot out there that are better but this help brake the band more mainstream.

Rocket Queen IMHO from that show was the best performace of that song that GNR have EVER done. Axl left the stage leaving the band to play without his vocals at a perfect point in the song, they really shined playing it and showed off the band playing a song the had a groove going. At the very end I wish he would have sang there because the song didn't have the dinamics there at the end that it did when he first walked off. I would like to think it was planned just because it worked so well that way but the other members where like WTF, Slash was shrugging his shoulders?

Also I beleive if RQ would have been released and pushed like SCOM was it would have been another top 5 or 10 single. I think it is one of the hidden gems on AFD.

If only a real good quality video was out that was unedited would make it even better. Hell MTV was on the cable end of the TV dail they could have showed it unedited if the choose too. Might piss some parents off but if they showed it after midnight it would have worked.

People still talk about this? God. This is as bad as people in public who are still under the impression that Axl "doesn't show up to shows".

I don't even look at it as being late (because it's not). Ticket says 9 for when the opener comes on, plays for an an hour, hour long set up in between bands and Gn'R comes on at 11. You're sad you have to work the next morning or the babysitter can't stay that late? Don't buy the ticket to come to the show then.

My tickets said 7:30 the opener BLS was on around 9 or so then GNR on at 11:15 so no my ticket didn't say 9 it said 7:30 people where leaving and the venue was giving refunds do to the long wait time. And it was like that for most of the US tour that year tickets said anywhere for 7:30 to 8:30, I am sure there where some 9 oclock tickets.

But when the band was doing those shows with the opener starting an hour or 2 later that printed on the tickets and play close to an hour then an hour plus wait for GNR, they claimed they started on time in which they didn't they where an hour or 2 late before the opener started and if they came on anything over and hour after the change over that added to the lateness.

I expect them to be late nothing new to me but it fucks most people even if it's only an hour late that's not including stage prep which takes an hour and is fully understandable.

Your question was could anyone that has been in the GNR camp could they have a successfull carear without GNR ever existing.

Axl I don't think so

Slash without him being in GNR he would not be the star he is today and his drug and alchol abuse would have gotten him most likely.

Duff No he would have most likely stayed on the drugy lifestyle

Izzy I think it would be no too

Steven No drugs would have gotten hime also

Everyone else brought in to replace someone all had some sort of a gig going so to say they would have made it big it is possible for some of them but not all.

But that being said any one of the orginal 5 could have ended up in another band that got a record deal but there are too many unknowns to make and eductated guess as to who and how far they might have gone.

What any member has done while in GNR or after they left the band will always be the guy that was in GNR and make a living off the GNR name even though they don't use it anymore. This goes double for the AFD and UYI lineups.

I am sure in the past Bumbles tours have been cancelled do to GNR with plans to fire back up and then only a few weeks or months later GNR cancels, I would almost bet that GNR managment/Axl have told Bumble it won't happen again when he went to them pissed off. But it is still happening.

We have no clue how many times this has happened.

I really paints Ron in a bad light when he cancels a Bumblefoot tour to work with GNR's during that time and he is shit on by Management or Axl by them cancelling then Ron is left with alot of explaining to do with his promoters, venues and most of all his fans which he really works hard to be accessable to them. Do you think management or Axl is going to step up and say to the people Ron has to answer to and say it was our fault. Not gomg to happen.

I really feel for the guy. He WANTS to be a part of GNR, he also want a small solo side job that he really enjoys.

I no GNR are paying him well, he got so much exposure being in GNR which helped his own fan base to get larger. But at what cost.

I hope he never leaves Guns but I understand if he does.

How really give a rats ass what contract he signed!!!! He should be in the loop about everything GNR related and if GNR can't be more transparent with there plans what do you expect him to do. It's a no brainer leave GNR and have a FUN solo job!!!!

This video has been on youtube for a couple of years or more..

Those who haven't seen it now know no it is there.

Still a good post!!!!!