WhazUp

I want them to succeed, absolutely

That's why its frustrating to see so much potential go to waste IMO, this lineup is fantastic I hope Axl gets it together and makes this next run count

I am seeing it this Saturday in LA

I am pumped!!

I highly doubt there will be a new album this year. Next year would probably be the fastest they can get an album together, considering they have not recorded anything with the band yet and are playing quite a few shows in the near future. 3-4 months is just not feasable to play tour dates, write material, record, mix, and master the songs, make deals, and manufacture and release an album worldwide. As for a reissue of CD, if they truly revamp it with unrelased material and new cool additions it would be neat to see a re-release but honestly I don't see that happening

Derek and the Dominos - Little Wing

I can only speak for myself, but i find myself critisizing the band at certain points not because I hate the fact that they are individuals, but the fact that the band's potential doesn't line up with what actually ends up happening. I am not here to accept everything they does as perfect and wonderful, I am here to chill with other GNR fans and discuss the band - both the good and the bad (or rather what we like and dislike about the band). I love Chinese Democracy, can't wait for Rio, etc. But at the same time things could been executed a hell of a lot better this past decade, and I do not want to brush everything under the carpet and pretend everything is perfect. Does Axl owe me anything? Fuck no he does not owe me a damn thing. But that sure as hell doesn't stop me from speaking about what I think could have been better

Oh the irony....made me laugh.

hardly comparable

The comparable part is that in EVERY topic, you know that a select few will be posting negative comments.

"Axl discovers cure for Cancer"............and you know that there will be negative responses from Bobbo and Norte. They will both say that they are Axl fans, but then write long posts on why Axl is screwing up with his cancer cure. One will be sure to complain that shirt Axl is wearing in the newspaper picture resembles the shirt of some other famous scientist, and how Axl must be copying him. The other will say that they hope the cure works, but they doubt it really will.

Sunny will make a subtle negative comment like "Sad, he could have produced this years earlier" and Classic will bash Sailaway and Volcano for praising Axl's cure, and tell them that he is the true GnR historian and that GnR history should reflect that Slash was the key opponent to Axl discovering the cure for Cancer, and chastise them for trying to rewrite music history.

Star will come in bashing Axl without even looking at what the topic is. You, like Sunny, will make a subtle negative comment. At least you will give Axl a little credit, but let it be known that if Slash was involved, the cure would be better, faster and cheaper for the public.

I will respond by defending Axl, saying we should be concentrating on the actual topic - Axl curing Cancer. Whereas everybody will respond that I take the board to seriously, I shouldn't care what others think, to move to HTGTH and to put people I don't like on ignore.

Volcano and Sailaway will get frustrated and wonder why people who don't like Axl come to a GnR board.

Which will explode into several name calling posts, where both sides blast the other side....but then will claim that they are just posting their opinions and aren't insulting people, while the other guys are trying to say their opinion is FACT and they are the ones doing all the name calling.

Bobbo will get mad if people don't spell his name right, but then he will accuse volcano and sailaway of being the same poster.

And we will have 8 pages of 5-6 guys just arguing about the same things that they do in every topic.

On a funnier note, and I wish I could recall who it was, but awhile back somebody called another poster a "miserable c*nt"......and then about a day later claimed that they "never called people names."

So to sum up your post: "Everybody fucking sucks" lol

Well at least we know that Axl has plans to actually show up! Lol

it just get progressively more epic on each side. but I do like 4 or 5 rockers in a row to really get things going. then an epic ballad.

I like the diversity,personally.And I like the layers of music,not fond of the "cut and paste" term. Music and the way it is made,mixed and produced is simply different now.I don't see the advantages of going back to analog four-track recording that was used in the 60's.

Don't get me wrong I think when used properly stuff like protools and other digital recording methods are fantastic ways to record

But you can HEAR the spliced up vocal tracks and the instruments being punched in on the album, and that is the problem. Great songs - horribly executed IMO

Listen to the end of CD, the final chorus in Riad, and the final vocal parts on Sod - it is soo obvious that pieces of the vocals are punched into the original track.

I love complex layered music but this goes beyond that in a negative way

Totally agree. It's there, it's hard to believe that some do not hear it.

I'd strip it back too. A more modern sound is fine, but all this layering and effects IMO takes away from the music. It's a distraction, the music loses focus and rawness and becomes detached in a way. If you can incorporate that stuff without the negatives then that's fine, but if it hurts the music then there's a problem.

Agreed with whoever gave the Axl props for mastering the record properly. The compression on albums like Metallica's and RHCP's to try to win over the mp3 generation is just killing music. Hopefully GN'R continue with the right approach for the forthcoming album(s).

I believe credit goes to Whazup for pointing out the Death Magnetic Compression problematic issue during our brief but pleasant discussion on Pro Tools.

Even though we may disagree on certain things its nice to be able to have an intelligent conversation about things we do agree on lol

Nothing wrong with this at all

I hope it has a great flow to it. CD to me just needed better studio takes and songs that went well together. Individually the songs are good but as an album IMO it was missing the flow that the truly great albums have. A lot of it has to do with the copy and paste nature of the album mixed with old studio takes that should have been kept in the 90's. So I hope this new album is truly "new" and not just a releasing of the vault (I would love for the past stuff to be released but not as a new album, maybe as a box set or something).

if the studio takes were left in the 90's Axl's voice would sound way different if he were to have re-recorded them just before the release.

I love it just the way it is.

Exactly my point, his voice sound soooo much better now IMO I hated his late 90's / early 200's voice, he sounds fantastic nowadays

In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

I mean, could they realistically vote Axl out? Or overrule him in any way? don't really think so, they are not on equal footing.

According to Axl's countersuit against Azoff, section 5 "Nature of the Action"

"Rose controls the operation, direction, and membership of the band. Rose has the authority to retain and release all constituent members of the band"

So in other words they are his employees and have no say in what happens unless he o.k.s it......sounds like hired hands to me.......

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/axlrose.pdf

Yup sounds like it to me too...

Okay so we can add Metallica,and Megadeth to that list,and VanHalen.We could go back and add Frank Zappa and the MOI,BonJovi this isn't exclusive to GNR,add NIN to that list as well.

I agree with adding NIN and Megadeth to the "list". Metallica? After watching Some Kind of Monster and reading into them they don't fit into that category, and neither does Van Halen, as the major songwriters were there (In the eighties and ninties the same instrumental section was in the band, and now most of the original incarnation save for 1 person is in the band. A lot different from all but one being new guys - and by original incarnation of course it is in reference to the incarnation that the band really came into their own with)

In NuGuns Axl is CEO and the others his employees, in old Guns he was just another partner in the corporation.........I don't see anything derogatory about stating the facts.........

I mean, could they realistically vote Axl out? Or overrule him in any way? don't really think so, they are not on equal footing.

According to Axl's countersuit against Azoff, section 5 "Nature of the Action"

"Rose controls the operation, direction, and membership of the band. Rose has the authority to retain and release all constituent members of the band"

So in other words they are his employees and have no say in what happens unless he o.k.s it......sounds like hired hands to me.......

http://images.eonline.com/static/news/pdf/axlrose.pdf

Yup sounds like it to me too...

Pearl Jam - Of The Earth

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

Give me the choice to hire Saul or Tracii I'd go with Tracii. He doesn't always play the same shit all the time and he knows many more different ways of playing his instrument.

And also Tracii was not 'the original guy for the job" he created THE job....he created GNR.

This proves my point. It is undisputed that Tracii was the guitar player before Slash. But that thread you created were full of jabs at Slash, and what you said regarding him is what people argued about. You just said "the cupcakes go crazy whenever you mention Tracii". Wrong. People just took what you said regarding Slash (which at the time was nothing but jabs) and pointed out what they thought was completely ridiculous, Tracii just happened to be the subject stuck in the middle of the argument

Interesting how you twist things,first you attack me over my screename and reference the wrong song,then I'm dammed for liking Styx as well,that is laughable.

I always thought Smeagol was a good character to represent the cupcake patrol,the hoarders,and the ones that steal and leak,can't you just see them hissing "my precious" as they gloat over their glory? Smeagol is a trollish figure,as is Dobby.

Since kirk wasn't the original lead guitarist,and Jason nor rob were the original bassist,you set the precident of calling everybody who is not an original member of a band a hired hand. I suppose you realize that Tracii ulrich aka guns was the original lead guitarist for GNR? Guess where I'm going with this.

Uh oh you said the T word. The cupcakes get their panties in an uproar when we mention facts like Tracii Guns put the guns in GNR and was THE original lead guitar player. Adler mentions in his book and many other have stated that Axl and Tracii founded the band when they were living together.

From what I remember from that topic you started you were going off about how Saul was shit and that Tracii could have done the job just as good if not better. Not that I want to open that can of worms, but that was the basis of the argument regarding him - I don't think it was ever disputed that Traci was the "original" guy for the job

What the fuck are you all talking about? I don't hear no cut and paste crap or a sloppy mixing job.....Chinese Democracy sounds fuckin' awesome (wether you like the songs or not) in my car sound system and in my home sound system

The actual sounds that are in the album are clear, dynamic, and sound great. I wish more modern albums would sound like that instead of being loud and compressed. But I can hear in songs where certain vocals are being punched in (and it is a fact that it happened, the demos and early leaks are clear evidence). And regardless of that, it boggles my mind how in CITR they take piano and vocal takes from 1999, guitar tracks from 2007, and who knows when the other tracks were recorded, and put them all together. The songwriting isn't the problem in this instance, it is the execution of the ideas that IMO could have gone better

I think we can find common ground in that we both like these songs and this album better than 99% of the crap that somehow passes for rock these days. On other issues,we can agree to disagree.Can appreciate you do have knowledge of what protools are capable of,and can see the vast progress from the recording of the analog 60's to the digital massive multitracks available today.

Absolutely, protools is fantastic and recording technology is better than ever IMO. The only issue is when it is not utilized properly, and I am glad that at least Chinese Democracy takes the more "clear sound and a lot of dynamics" approach. A lot of modern recordings (Death Magnetic by Metallica is the posterboy for this) are compressed so much that there is no dynamics as well as there being audible distortion as a result.

What the fuck are you all talking about? I don't hear no cut and paste crap or a sloppy mixing job.....Chinese Democracy sounds fuckin' awesome (wether you like the songs or not) in my car sound system and in my home sound system

The actual sounds that are in the album are clear, dynamic, and sound great. I wish more modern albums would sound like that instead of being loud and compressed. But I can hear in songs where certain vocals are being punched in (and it is a fact that it happened, the demos and early leaks are clear evidence). And regardless of that, it boggles my mind how in CITR they take piano and vocal takes from 1999, guitar tracks from 2007, and who knows when the other tracks were recorded, and put them all together. The songwriting isn't the problem in this instance, it is the execution of the ideas that IMO could have gone better

it just get progressively more epic on each side. but I do like 4 or 5 rockers in a row to really get things going. then an epic ballad.

I like the diversity,personally.And I like the layers of music,not fond of the "cut and paste" term. Music and the way it is made,mixed and produced is simply different now.I don't see the advantages of going back to analog four-track recording that was used in the 60's.

It doesn't have to be black and white. A lot of fans were drawn away by the overproduction and all the layers, (and I understand you might not care, but I'm just looking at the bigger picture). It doesn't have to be analog four track recordings, but it doesn't need to be produced to within an inch of it's life either.

I mean look at Foo Fighters latest record. Everything to tape, recorded within a three month window, in Dave's garage. And it's a great sounding record. Sometimes less is more.

Not a Foo Fan,and as I stated I like the layers of sound. I don't see it as overproduced,it sounds glorious in my system and I'm still catching nuances in the Album.

Not the biggest Foo fan either, just giving an example of how sometimes less is more, as you can't deny the commercial and critical success of that record. And the record flows pretty nicely.

My main point is, if Axl stripped down the sound just a tad, it might've helped the album flow a little better, along with keeping the songs a little more consistent with each other.

I don't rely on commercial success or what some critic thinks to decide what I like. I like the flow and the complexity,really would like to inquire about the people complaining about pro tools,if they are familiar with the program.It is an asset not a drawback to the recording process.

I shudder to think of how my ears would be tortured and my soul compromised If I listened to what is considered critically acclaimed and Successful in the US music scene at present.

Like I said in my previous post, IMO protools itself is not the problem. I love layered music and musically complex song ideas, but that does not excuse the sloppy copy/pasting that is blatantly audible throughout the album. Protools, when used right, can be very useful and is very much a great program. But when you use vocal cuts from 1999 and guitar tracks from 2007 along with sloppy inserts it just doesn't mesh well (see my other post for examples)

it just get progressively more epic on each side. but I do like 4 or 5 rockers in a row to really get things going. then an epic ballad.

I like the diversity,personally.And I like the layers of music,not fond of the "cut and paste" term. Music and the way it is made,mixed and produced is simply different now.I don't see the advantages of going back to analog four-track recording that was used in the 60's.

Don't get me wrong I think when used properly stuff like protools and other digital recording methods are fantastic ways to record

But you can HEAR the spliced up vocal tracks and the instruments being punched in on the album, and that is the problem. Great songs - horribly executed IMO

Listen to the end of CD, the final chorus in Riad, and the final vocal parts on Sod - it is soo obvious that pieces of the vocals are punched into the original track.

I love complex layered music but this goes beyond that in a negative way

I hope it has a great flow to it. CD to me just needed better studio takes and songs that went well together. Individually the songs are good but as an album IMO it was missing the flow that the truly great albums have. A lot of it has to do with the copy and paste nature of the album mixed with old studio takes that should have been kept in the 90's. So I hope this new album is truly "new" and not just a releasing of the vault (I would love for the past stuff to be released but not as a new album, maybe as a box set or something).

Your opinions aren't "critical thinking" they are daily bashings. Big difference.

And if my opinions cause you so much grief......ignore or don't read them. See how that works?

Both of you have valid points but spend way too much time arguing (as well as a handful of other people) and having this "us and them" type style of posting and finger pointing. His posts are not daily bashings. It takes two to tango, both of you should just use the ignore feature and be done with it

And by the end of the tour they played as little as four or five of their old songs. It's not that it has to be all or nothing when it comes to the old material, I get playing the hits for some of their act, but when most of your setlist is comprised by material written by another band, how is the casual fan to take this current incarnation seriously, and not just a cover band?

Your last couple of sentences hit the nail on the head.

My question is why?

I don't take bands seriously or not seriously, depending on who is in the band or not, or how that band is ran (who the boss is, who makes the rules, etc). I don't understand why you care so much about the "casual fan taking the namd seriously".......seriously, who gives a shit?

The members in the band. Other than them, why should you worry about if people take them seriously or not?

Even tho u and I agree on some major issues, and disagree on some issues....your comment sums up why we will probably never fully agree on this band.

You and a few others are obsessed with stuff like that. Will they be taken seriously by the casual fan. Will there be a group photo. Will the band members be allowed to give interviews. What is the new song to old song ratio in concerts. How will a Dj solo compare to an old slash solo. What is the bands legacy going to be. How many albums the album sold. Cover band. Hired hands. What type of hat Dj wears. Nu this and that.

You and a few others are obsessed with those things. None of that has any meaning or interest to me. I don't understand why u guys are so obsessed with all that side drama. I couldn't care less.

You obviously care becasue you feel the need to keep pointing out how much you don't care..............

Lol I was thinking the same thing

Screaming Trees - Bed of Roses

For me it is definately Estranged. It is such a great song musically and it really represents how I feel at certain times. I remember blasting the song around 2 in the morning driving back to my house from Hollywood and seeing the city lights as I drive by while the second guitar solo was playing, it was such a perfect moment. It is so powerful to have a song that connects with you on an emotional level and at the same time compliments the atmosphere of what is around you.

The reason I perfer AFD is because it sounds natural, organic, and has a great vibe to it. Not that I hate CD (I actually like it a lot, full of great songs). CD, while full of great concepts and lyrical themes, IMO is diluted by the execution of the instumental and vocals takes along with poor mixing. What it needed was less copy/paste and more of the whole band getting into a studio and recording the songs within the same time frame regardless of how many overdubs there are in one song. When I hear CD I hear a bunch of great tunes that could have been so much more...