Brodie

2006 was badass.

But my favorite look is 2007 Axl when he did the Versace gig.

He was really fit, was wearing a nice jacket.

It was like "King Axl" or something.

I love the cause, kudos there, but the performance in and of itself was disappointing.

DJ raping "Better" was unforgivable. Just terrible.

Axl's voice was bad and it's easy to say it's because Axl didn't prepare properly. Do we know? Nope.

But unless we're told otherwise, that's what people will assume. People are cynical and illogical, need to be kept on track. Professional PR is needed.

Even though Axl's voice was not good, it will improve. It's like a football. Your players have natural ability and talent but they need practice and games to get up to speed.

But it sucks because whenever the spotlight is on Guns, they seem to perform poorer than we know they're capable of. We want them to be on top, the best.

"Victory or death", as a wise tattoo once stated.

Does that still apply, Ax?

Oh this finally leaked.

It's truly disappointing when untalented people are given opportunities to document one of the greatest bands in history.

Axl is a perfectionist musically but I don't know why he hires no-talent clowns to market his work.

Poor compositions, no organization, and sloppy editing. Fuck.

False.

http://www.universalmusic.com/artists?initial=g&page=2

There are no downsides to a blu-ray release.

This is untrue.

I'm all for releasing content to nourish (and build) your fanbase but every industry has discernibly proved the inferiority of physical content distribution.

From a basic business perspective, there's the problem of (1) HDTV/bluray adoption rate and (2) High overhead/cost with physical releases.

The future is digital distribution, prudently marrying free-to-play with lower cost digital content.

And then, as HRS so cynically pointed out, the initial amount of demand and interest in that product/brand anyway.

i agree. if axl rose and 2008 gnr management had properly promoted the chinese democracy record in advance of its release.....the average joe would not only want to see guns n roses but they would be stoked to hear a whole bunch new songs from the chinese record and chinese songs in the can

If it's promoted from December 2006, onward and released on March 6th, 2007, yes.

The break killed their momentum, Robin left, etc.

Bad for business.

why invite the ridicule? i'll admit, i'm more curious to hear the microwaved leftovers from chinese democracy than most guys. but part of me just doesn't see the point. people are going to trash and mock it, and in fairness, it will probably suck. just don't see they have much to gain by releasing new music. money's in touring. not making records. especially not in the expensive way axl makes them.

They'd make more $$$ off of it sooner rather than later.

If they do a boxset or something down the road for the Leftover Chinese the old GNR fans who buy it out of spite will be dead or not give a shit.

Your core market is only evaporating. It only makes sense to invest in the future.

The Europe tour they're doing right now is a smart cash grab but I doubt Axl is going to dig into the bowels of the Illusions records, so at some point he's forced to release more to keep the tour interesting.

Also it's a sunk cost at this point and despite Axl's endless tinkering it's done so it's time to get it out the door.

no, i really don't. everyone but axl knew this. that's why irving azoff hustled axl and dumped it out there. it's why the record company was happy to send it to best buy purgatory and try to recoup as much of their foolish investment as possible. it's why they didn't really care when axl went AWOL. time moved on. axl didn't. nobody really cared about chinese democracy, despite how much they loved the music his previous band recorded a generation ago.

I don't know. It remains to be seen.

But I do know that playing 1/3-to-1/2 of your album multiple years prior to is release it's the musical equivalent of blue balls.

No one really cares anymore, they just want it to come. When it does, it's uncomfortable and anti-climatic.

Also I think the "catchy" argument is a little overblown. There are tons of successful songs that have no simple structure or hook to them.

Outside of "Power", Kanye's last record had tons of sampling, guest spots, quote montages, and other weird typically anti-mainstream things and it was considered by most to be a masterpiece.

i feel like that's why GN'R is perhaps not always as mindful of the internet fanbase as people expect them to be -- to be frank a large majority of the people going to shows are average, casual listeners. some girl i know went to see them and only knows their hits, she pretty much just enjoys going to rock concerts. she did know that slash had left though. that's the funny thing about it. the fans here are so knowledgeable about the history of guns, but the three things it seems like casual, everyday music listeners know about GN'R is that: they were a great rock band; slash left; axl's an asshole. i'm not saying that's accurate, but it always seems to be the reactions i hear from "normal" people whenever i bring up the band.

Don't you think that if "Chinese Democracy" were properly promoted and toured upon then the average person would maybe consider GN'R to be worth their time and interest?

The band didn't even have a proper website until recently, for fucks sake. It's so absurd.

The general public has no reason to take the new GN'R seriously.

The bad reception of Chinese in the public is due to:

1. Complexities with old name.

2. Overbuilt hype (More time = more expectation).

3. Leaks.

As I said before, if it was released in 2002, that lineup of GN'R would have been considered to be a new era of Guns N' Roses like VH and Sabbath and the album would have been heralded as great.

At this point, all the fans can hope for is another record. But it's sad for Bucket, Robin, and Brain as their work will never truly be appreciated how it should.

Still better than most rockers his age...

He gets paid better than most rockers his age, too.

Nor does he have to share much of the profit with an opener.

You definitely get a good show when you go see GN'R though, I'm not disputing that.

Axl doesn't do a 3-hour show.

Axl does a 2 hour show with a 1 hour break.

24 songs x 5:00 (avg.) = 120 minutes.

Listen, long time fans of the band are going to want some new material to start being introduced to the show and casual fans are going to want to hear the hits and nothing else.

Is that really true? I'm not so sure.

I think you're either stuck in the past when Axl could start a riot because of a guy with a camera...

If that is true, then Management has not made this point clear to security and the venues.

I've talked to them on several occasions and both parties are very afraid of Axl walking out because people take his picture.

Fans want to document the experience and share it and they're actively discouraged on doing so.

...or you're trying to cope with the reality that your hero (and my hero) is disappointing us by pissing away the momentum he's built and WE've built.

Good point about momentum.

I think fans are asking themselves the same question. "Where is this momentum leading us"? "Why am I paying $125 if 55% of the setlist is the old bands' music?"

In 2006 the momentum was supposedly to leading to a payoff: "Chinese Democracy".

In 2012, they are for all intents and purposes: touring just to tour. (And make money).

There's no ascertainable point or payoff, so they're naturally a little more frustrated and cynical.

Hell, 2003-2005 was a cake walk. Try being a 14-16 year old kid in 1994 and your favourite band said they were going on a short hiatus and would soon be back with a new album.

Anyone thinking 2003-2005 was a bleak period obviously did not live through the devastation of 1994-2001 (with the brief moment of hope when "Oh My God" was released).

Lived through both and I think 2003 was the most painful for me.

In 2002 there was a feeling of "oh shit GN'R is back" then the plug got pulled. It kinda came out of nowhere.

Don't get me wrong the dead years/96 was painful but things were rocky for awhile and drawn out. They kinda broke up a piece at a time.

His message board persona may be intolerable but he's a nice guy and does a lot of good to help the band.

Azoff, McGhee and Katsis all apparently tried to push Axl in various ways to reunite with the old band

This is factually untrue and you haven't a shred of evidence to back it up with.

Goldy and Merck helped keep GN'R alive, helped Axl pursue his vision, and helped the record you love get into your hands.

They also helped treat GN'R like a proper band by organizing media appearances, TV/radio spots, and most famously the 2002 VMA gig.

I love the "throw them under the bus" mentality on these forums, e.g.:

Slash isn't in GNR anymore? FUCK HIM. (Even though he built GNR to what it is today).

Bucket isn't in GNR anymore? FUCK HIM. (Even though him and Robin built Chinese 1-3).

Grow up, children.

They know how to play IRS, If The World, Shackler's, Scraped, Catcher, Rhiad, TWAT, and even though it probably won't ever be played - Oh My God.

Removing certain songs and replacing them with the material Axl wanted to bury Appetite with would only make you know... logical sense....

It's fun to write fiction.

Complaining about extra songs now?

I am a Guns N' Roses fan.

I go to (many) Guns N' Roses concerts to see Guns N' Roses.

Not Bob Dylan. Not Wings. Not AC/DC. Not Tommy Stinson. Not The Who. Guns N' Roses.

Also other bands may play covers but I'd bet it doesn't comprise 16% of their setlist.

(Or 25% if you include the UYI covers.)

Are any of these songs on any Guns N' Roses album?

- Riff Raff

- Whole Lotta Rosie

- Motivation

- My Generation

No? Then why are they being played?

If you think those things weren't suggested/planned by former management you're delusional.

By every standard, GN'R is behind the curve when it comes to promoting and marketing their current music and being forward thinking with music to be released.

However, yes, progress has been made and there has been some great things for the fans. Credit is due for progress.

Even if you think Beta, etc. is a drain on Axl professionally, taking the power away from "management" and back into the artists' hands is the absolute best thing that can happen and I'm grateful for it.

I hope that they will use that power to help build a better relationships with the fans in the future.

There's a lot of great shows the band played in 2002 where Axl sounds great but people never talk about them.

England was good, Boston was great, NYC was pretty great too if I remember correctly.

Rock Am Ring, despite having the best Jungle and Nightrain in (then) recent memory is a by-and-large, awful vocal performance by Axl.

What the fuck?

Find me a better live "Knocking on Heaven's Door", "Better" or "IRS" than Rock am Ring.

The whole show smoked.

Axl's voice in 2002 was shit - you're just pimping the audience recordings over the soundboards because you can't tell exactly how bad Axl sounds with them. All the Buckethead fans do this.

"Yeah his voice sucked, but he held the scream in "Live and Let Die" for SO LONG!!!!!"

Who cares?

Are you an adult? Because most adults I know can have a conversation with other adults without resorting to aggressive accusations and your post confused me.

As far as the content of your response: I agree that performance of "IRS" is solid. Flawed but solid.

The only part about Knockin that I remember is the audience part which yes is very good.

You didn't mention Live And Let Die which i think is better than both of those.

"Better" is absolutely horrible though. He's out of breath, misses verses, and sounds like a cat in heat.

Same thing with ISE and Brownstone. Dreadful. He's off key and pitchy for all of The Blues.

Good gig but I think there are better in 06.

Yep I agree w/ Voodoo.

There's a lot of great shows the band played in 2002 where Axl sounds great but people never talk about them.

England was good, Boston was great, NYC was pretty great too if I remember correctly.

Rock Am Ring, despite having the best Jungle and Nightrain in (then) recent memory is a by-and-large, awful vocal performance by Axl.

STATISTICS:

Here's how it breaks down:

Strip all of the filler solos/jams out of the set and GN'R plays about 25 songs a night.

They typically play 6 songs from Chinese which = 24% of the setlist.

They typically play 7 songs from Appetite which = 28% of the setlist.

They typically play 7 songs from Use Your Illusion I & II = 24% of the setlist.

(That's 3 songs from UYI I and 4 songs from UYI II).

Overall, it's 54% of old GNR material vs. 46% of new GNR material.

COMPARISONS:

Last time I saw the Stones they played 24% of material off of their latest album (5 songs of 21 songs) which is comparable to GN'R. However, they shuffled songs around every night from different albums and eras.

I saw the show earlier on the leg that was totally different than it was later in the leg. Part of that was due to audience feedback on songs from the new album.

When Mick needed a break, Keith played some of his stuff. Granted it was full songs with the band and actually stuff the fans gave a shit about.

They openers and closers were always the same as was a majority of the setlist. But there was room for change (2-4 song variance) and the order was never the same.

MY THOUGHTS:

Personally -- I would like it if they removed 80% of the solos/jams, "Knockin' On Heaven's Door", and "Live and Let Die" from the setlist forever.

Literally never play them ever again. Ever. Under any circumstances.

I'd also like to see them take "It's So Easy", "Mr. Brownstone", and "Rocket Queen" off as permanent fixtures of the set.

Play them on occasion but not as monoliths in the set. If you play Jungle, Sweet Child, Nightrain, and Paradise then the old fans will still come.

The band will never play new material until the next album is out (lol) so you might as well quit hoping.

What you can do however, is hope that they come up with a more creative, flexible setlist. They did this some on the UCAP tour, which was good.

I think why people clamor for a new album so much is because GN'R only has so many songs to work with.

I don't understand people bitching about the setlist.

Should they play deeper cuts from UYI and CD? Yes.

But this tour is one that Europe has never seen. They're playing "new old" stuff for Europe. That's added value.

If you went to the US CD tour in 2011 and then the UCAP tour in 2012, I could see why you'd be upset.

After all, the set list was mostly redundant between those two legs if memory serves.

The fact is, new music won't be played before the next album itself is out and definitely not on this tour.