Brodie

Fuck you.

I think it's cool that Axl learned the guitar -it'll help creatively.

But I don't even want to see him play it.

I've always hated when Mick Jagger played guitar and 95% of the time Keith Richards has sung, so...

Don't know what you're talking about, they totally fucked up "Oh My God". Did in Vegas too.

Love that song but their live performances of it have been awful,

But Madagascar in Rio is still one of my favorites...

Kicked off the label? No.

Buy the material from the record company? Yes.

It'd really free them up to do some great things and make sure the material is promoted in the way it deserves.

No. He's good at networking which is nice but don't care much for his playing.

That was always the score, Laparka - don't know why you're surprised...

(I think it should be available 24/7/365 if you purchase it but I'm just saying...)

It's really gay (as in it's the equivalent of you having sex with another guy)

No need for ad-hominem attacks or homophobic remarks.

did you buy it?

Yes.

Why are some of you so pissed that people don't wanna spend the 10 bucks to see it when it's obviously gonna be on youtube?

Because you aren't entitled to whatever you want and we want to support the band financially, so they can keep doing things like this...

grow up

That's exactly the point. "Grown ups" don't steal and pilfer media content just because they want it and rationalize it with some bullshit excuse.

It took a lot of time, effort, and money to bring fans the stream and it's childish and ignorant to ignore this basic fact.

for me im not pissed that people are downloading i think though we as fan should support this idea because this could become a regular thing, which would be kick ass. after all setting up cameras for this time of thing would cost money so why not support the people who are bringing it to us. i like watching footage from youtube but this quality is 100% better than anything out there. am i wrong?

I'm glad that someone here is reasonable.

This the most cutting-edge, forward thinking thing that GN'R has done since the MySpace stream when Chinese came out.

A lot of people have been clamoring for 'new' GN'R to release a new "Live Era" CD with the new band. Well you know what? This is really close to that. Pro-shot. Pretty solid audio.

GN'R fans are so deluded it's hilarious. Say one thing - do another. First everyone wanted Chinese to come out and they said "just release it - people will buy it"... but a lot of "fans" didn't buy it - they torrented it, they downloaded it, but they didn't buy it.

This is a clear, tangible way that you can support the band so they can keep doing things like this, so that new material can come out, etc.

And don't think the record company and corporate interests will look at this and say "well they didn't buy your live stream of the concert"......"why should we try something new when it comes to releasing your album when it didn't work before", etc..

In this case, watching on YouTube/piracy thing isn't in your best interest, it's only fucking the entire fanbase because of your selfishness.

There's a time and place for piracy and I'm not totally anti-leaks for a variety of reasons but in this case... stupid, stupid shit...

Yeah im gonna go buy a stream that is inevitably gonna be put on youtube anyway. Im just tryin 2 hurry the process a bit you worthless cocksucker. I paid my 100 bucks to go support the band live at the izod so you can shove your opinions right up your ass homefuck.

Parasitic demons sucking acid through your heart...

What can I do?

How about you buy them, you cheap ass downloading motherfucker?

Seen both. Like both.

Love the new tunes, love the old tunes...

Hating on either is childish and wont bring Lineup X back.

That being said, kinda pisses me off that Bucket and Rob are gone.

Cover band of a cover band. Band needs to stand on their own merit.

Release new music...

I love their covers, just wish they'd play different ones.

Keep Rosie, Riff Raff, and LALD and we're good.

Also keep in mind this is the "Chinese Democracy" tour not the Red Panda tour...

Great show. Thanks GN'R and all of the cool people I met.

"Estranged" hit me hard last night.

Still so grateful for that...

Can't wait to see y'all again...

It's a pretty complex issue I'd say.

The blame can be placed at the following locations:

- Axl/GN'R

- Record Company

- Legal

- Design Agencies

Consider the chain of command & red tape that you have to go through from inception to release:

1. You have to hire an appropriate ad agency/design firm to complete the task for you. That agency has to find those files they worked on in 200X, update them if need-be, and then commence work on it.

This assuming they have the files/materials altogether. The agency may need a print-resolution picture of Buckethead but no one has it. Let's email George to get the picture. George is in bumfuck Kentucky.

It'll be a couple of days. Or another agency could have begun work but is no longer in existence or whomever could have wanted another agency to see it to completion. Gotta get the materials back. It's always

on their grandma's hard drive which is 300 miles away on the wintery slopes of the northern border of the Seven Kingdoms. Waiting... waiting... waiting... Play phone/e-mail tag until you get the necessary materials

that you need (proper lyrics, thank yous, etc.). One delay causes another, causes another....chain reaction... but no Keanu...

2. Legal needs to get clearance from every party involved so that everything can be above board prior to release. Ideally someone would be working on this prior to or in unison with the design process so that

you're maximizing efficiency, reducing your overhead, etc. but for this album I wouldn't say that's reasonable to assume. They probably twiddled their thumbs too... Included in the legal aspect would be

all contract disputes/issues, etc. An ad agency for example could have been doing work and the project could've been completed, but awaited payment from whomever before relinquishing the files.

There's pay on receipt, net 30. As I said before, one delay causes another - elongating this whole process.

3. The Record Company wanted the album out right around the holiday rush and they were sick of Axl taking his time deciding if he liked the Fire Brick Red or the Cadium Red on the drapes better.

They want to recoup their losses. I'm sure (and have heard much as so) that it gets pretty intense/unfriendly between those two. Both parties have a "fuck them" attitude and neither seem to be in a helping

kind of mood. It's purely business and bad blood is built up. The Ad Agency working on the booklet may say "hey this isn't done - we didn't get X, Y, and Z from Person 5 and 6 yet" and the record company said

"fuck you - we're paying... send it now". Even if it wasn't that sinister - they probably had an early proof, time was getting tight so they pulled the trigger and sent it to market.

And then there's the "real booklet". If it hasn't been released for capitalistic consumption then the record company sees that as untapped, speculative capital that they can get revenue from. Axl may have wanted it out no frills but they

see it as an opportunity to leverage a re-release. "No fucker, you aren't releasing that unless it's with a new album - something we can make money off of - we paid for this shit, you fuckweasel"! Bam. No new booklet.

This, all assuming that everyone is doing their job. Most of the time that isn't the case or they aren't even qualified for the position that they hold. Assuming they are - are all departments/parties involved sharing their information across

channels and "working together"? No probably not. Systemic failure in leadership/management of these companies pretty much the same reason Skwerl was able to snag his acorns when he did.

Anyway this is mostly speculation. I'm just providing insight to the nuance of this topic and all of the complexities that result from working with corporate overlords...

But. They had over 10 years to come up with some album artwork. And the front cover art was done in 2002 or earlier, that we do know. Or yeah, unless they made finishing touches to that for over 6 years.

By that "logic" they had 10 years to release an album... or three albums...

Shit happens, tastes change, new people work on the album, you realize you don't like something... the change the tracklisting & need new art to match different song, blah blah blah.

You don't cut a trailer for a movie until the movie's done, etc.

^^

Yeah except Sharon was the daughter of a record industry exec and knew the ins-and-outs of the biz...

So that example crashes and burns...

Since my life apparently has to be a complete catastrophe... I'm not going to Vegas.

Excited for tonight after that I'm ghost so peace kids.

I don't know if I buy that. This is just my opinion, but the record company had been trying desperately to wrestle some new music from GNR from at least 1999 through 2006. Check the Tom Zataut quotes - they tried everything. The artwork and liner notes should have been ready in 2002. They should have been ready in 2006. At some point they gave up and stopped funding the recording sessions, so I think that when the label actually received the masters, they may have felt that Axl would change his mind again (and we don't know what he thought at the time), and were determined to finally release this album without any more delays. I don't blame them. Somebody fucked up on the liner notes and we don't know who to blame since we have no information to go on, but Axl's side should have had this stuff ready for a long time, and the record company should have found a way to include the correct liner notes. Perhaps they could have waited, we don't know what deadlines were set for sending it to be manufactured so either side could be at fault.

I'm sure there was artwork in 2002, and probably 2006, but that obviously you'd think of something else for the artwork after 6 years and 3 guitarists? Don't you think they probably had...

2 or 3 album designs?

It's a pretty complex issue I'd say.

The blame can be placed at the following locations:

- Axl/GN'R

- Record Company

- Legal

- Design Agencies

Consider the chain of command & red tape that you have to go through from inception to release:

1. You have to hire an appropriate ad agency/design firm to complete the task for you. That agency has to find those files they worked on in 200X, update them if need-be, and then commence work on it.

This assuming they have the files/materials altogether. The agency may need a print-resolution picture of Buckethead but no one has it. Let's email George to get the picture. George is in bumfuck Kentucky.

It'll be a couple of days. Or another agency could have begun work but is no longer in existence or whomever could have wanted another agency to see it to completion. Gotta get the materials back. It's always

on their grandma's hard drive which is 300 miles away on the wintery slopes of the northern border of the Seven Kingdoms. Waiting... waiting... waiting... Play phone/e-mail tag until you get the necessary materials

that you need (proper lyrics, thank yous, etc.). One delay causes another, causes another....chain reaction... but no Keanu...

2. Legal needs to get clearance from every party involved so that everything can be above board prior to release. Ideally someone would be working on this prior to or in unison with the design process so that

you're maximizing efficiency, reducing your overhead, etc. but for this album I wouldn't say that's reasonable to assume. They probably twiddled their thumbs too... Included in the legal aspect would be

all contract disputes/issues, etc. An ad agency for example could have been doing work and the project could've been completed, but awaited payment from whomever before relinquishing the files.

There's pay on receipt, net 30. As I said before, one delay causes another - elongating this whole process.

3. The Record Company wanted the album out right around the holiday rush and they were sick of Axl taking his time deciding if he liked the Fire Brick Red or the Cadium Red on the drapes better.

They want to recoup their losses. I'm sure (and have heard much as so) that it gets pretty intense/unfriendly between those two. Both parties have a "fuck them" attitude and neither seem to be in a helping

kind of mood. It's purely business and bad blood is built up. The Ad Agency working on the booklet may say "hey this isn't done - we didn't get X, Y, and Z from Person 5 and 6 yet" and the record company said

"fuck you - we're paying... send it now". Even if it wasn't that sinister - they probably had an early proof, time was getting tight so they pulled the trigger and sent it to market.

And then there's the "real booklet". If it hasn't been released for capitalistic consumption then the record company sees that as untapped, speculative capital that they can get revenue from. Axl may have wanted it out no frills but they

see it as an opportunity to leverage a re-release. "No fucker, you aren't releasing that unless it's with a new album - something we can make money off of - we paid for this shit, you fuckweasel"! Bam. No new booklet.

This, all assuming that everyone is doing their job. Most of the time that isn't the case or they aren't even qualified for the position that they hold. Assuming they are - are all departments/parties involved sharing their information across

channels and "working together"? No probably not. Systemic failure in leadership/management of these companies pretty much the same reason Skwerl was able to snag his acorns when he did.

Anyway this is mostly speculation. I'm just providing insight to the nuance of this topic and all of the complexities that result from working with corporate overlords...

I have no idea why people hate the speech montage in "Madagascar" so much.

Who does that? Nobody that's who. So not only is it unique as hell but the words and context surrounding them is powerful...

The official website being updated is definately a good move

Yes, extremely tardy, but welcome. Let's hope it's content is worth a damn.

As far as business plans go I think it may be best for GNR to take care of GNR business

If they weren't fucking up all the time - I'd leave them to it & be quiet as a churchmouse...

and for the rest just enjoy the music.

I love that idea. Release more music for people to enjoy!

Maybe Axl was strong-armed into releasing it?

I think Axl wanted more time because everything wasn't ready and the label wanted to push it to market before the holiday rush. They didn't want any more delays so they said fuck it and just released it.

I don't know, Axl seemed more like he wanted to do stuff with the fans, not much with the media

I understand why he would not like the media but it seems to me to be a necessary evil.

Once again if you 'really want it' to be successful, what have you - bite the bullet.

Plus, it's not up to Axl to tour and stuff, the manager has to set that stuff up. I remember in the Azoff lawsuit, it said GN'R was going to have a European tour in the middle of 2009 to support the album, but instead were told to stay for a possible Van Halen/GN'R super-tour that never happened. I still remember hearing the rumblings of that tour, and it was on numerous websites.

Aren't respected but plenty of award shows every year...

But fair point, Azoff thing fucked them over pretty good for 2009.

So you are obviously employed in a music-related field that would enable you to make this sort of judgement?

Yes.

but I do see the same circle of idiots that apparently feel the need to visit each and every fucking day with the explicit purpose of talking smack about GNR

Yep and they suck.

I'd give Axl my shirt if he called up and asked for it. Love the guy. Love the band.

I say things because I care. If someone reads them and finds value in it - great' date=' if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but I have to speak what I feel is the truth...

Ha ha, you beat me to it, I was planning to do something like this. But let's be honest here. 'Oh My God' and 'Silkworms' are not going to be on the album. Replace 'em with 'Checkmate' / 'Jackie Chan' and a studio version of 'Sailing'.

Yeah and Forgotten isn't a real song to my knowledge but whatever it was quick and dirty. Thanks though.

I find it a crying shame no one praises Sorry as much as it deserves, it's a work of art and definitely for me ranks up there with the best Guns songs.

"Sorry" and "This I Love" are my two favorite moments on the album.

They feel effortless and the former is abound with hooks.

Areas that YOU might like GNR to change may not be a priority.

Yes that's true but basic things like having a website, releasing and promoting material, and keeping your fans in the loop should be priorities of every band/musician/entertainer.

Haven't seen anyone else take it straight to the forums,and do you honestly believe everyone here is pro-GNR?

That's fine and there are certainly a lot of haters but Draconian "ban any discussion that doesn't cast GNR/Axl in a perfect light" rhetoric is childish and counterproductive.

We're here to discuss, praise, and criticize - you gotta take the good with the bad and weed out what's valuable and take the truth when you see it.

quit this whole notion that AXL's above money or caring about sales' date=' cause it's absolutely fucking moronic [/quote']

Where is the proof of him "caring"? I don't know if he did or didn't.

If the record company fucked him over on some stuff - okay (but why wasn't that in writing in the first place). I can accept that.

But then why don't you go out and do an interview with such-and-such magazine. Or go to the VMAs. Or something.

There's little tangible proof of "effort". Only a mention about trying to get the "Better" video out there (why is that so complex?)

and trying to get the "real booklet" in the fans hands. We weren't given reasons why that didn't happen so we can't empathize or understand.

Fans are in the dark about a great many issues and that's the problem.

His socio-economic situation has nothing to do with it.

Didn't notice the Pitman synth on the Catcher demo, when does it come in?

At about 2:00.

If it's there it's much lower/barely audible. That new Catcher is just awful all around, imo.

Turned a soft rock song into a banshee screeching mess.

My understanding is that the Pitman synth part is still present on Catcher in the Rye. It's just lower in the mix, as it was always intended to be. There was a demo where is was very prominent, especially in one part, because the strings and other instruments hadn't been added yet.

Beat me to it. But still like the synth much better than the strings there. Less complex.

Feels like some songs on Chinese would've benefitted more by simplicity, this being one of them.

Since when did rock become so civilized?

I don't know what you're talking about?

If you don't think GNR has problems or at least areas to improve in you're completely delusional.

And he did venture onto the forums

That was cool and great fan service but not promotion.

That's preaching to the converted, if anything.

The fans bought multiple copies of the album and got word out.

Thanks for the review.

Only gripes about the album are:

-01/02 synth intro Chinese >08 intro Chinese. More badass, punky.

-Bumble replacing Bucket solo on Shackler's

-Bumble replacing Brian on Catcher & Removing Pitman synth from Catcher

-Riad. Never could get into that song.