Ketan

i am sorry i did not quite get it. Are you disputing that humans have evolved from apes or are you calling all africans monkeys?

The same evolutionary theory that say that we origin from Africa say that we origin from monkeys. I just took it a bit longer.

I am talking about generations, while your analogy reached 50 000 years back. Don't you see how stupid that gets?

Glad you cleared that up

i was drawing your attention to the definition of the word "origin". i agree with you that this is actually very stupid to go so far back to determine somebody's origin. which brings me back to my original point: if somebody's grand parents where from Sweden and had settled down in America, it is bizarre to call that person Swedish and not American. for all we know he would probably fit all major american stereotypes if you were to trace his lineage you would find that his grandparents were born and brought up in Sweden and probably their grand parents were born in some other country... and if we keep going back all the way we will eventually find that someone in his family had actually traveled from africa.

there.

I gave a quite straight answer.

I define someone's nationality from their origin.

Most researchers agree that mankind spread out of Africa starting about 50,000 years ago,

Read Article

going by your logic we are all Africans. i dont think it's right to define somone's nationality like that.. if someone's grand parents had migrated to America from Sweden to settle down in the early 20th centuary, would you still call him a Swedish national even if he has never been to Sweden?

Going by your logic we aren't humans, we're monkeys.

i am sorry i did not quite get it. Are you disputing that humans have evolved from apes or are you calling all africans monkeys?

I define someone's nationality from their origin.

Most researchers agree that mankind spread out of Africa starting about 50,000 years ago,

Read Article

going by your logic we are all Africans. i dont think it's right to define somone's nationality like that.. if someone's grand parents had migrated to America from Sweden to settle down in the early 20th centuary, would you still call him a Swedish national even if he has never been to Sweden?

I know it's not a Nirvana song, but "Where Did You Sleep Last Night" would be a killer song for Axl to cover on piano.

i agree. would love that

And, i guess mediocrity does sell in India but not exclusively, this is a disservice...and to reject them as an art form is kind of...again, see, it's indicative of this imperialist mentality where if the thing doesn't fit pre-concieved western notions of how a film or a genre or a medium should be then it is no longer relevant. My gripe with Indian cinema isn't the song and dance routines, it isn't the theatricality of it, that just makes it more grand and operatic and dramatic, these elements are wonderful when correctly realised, it's the rejection of indigenous elements with a view to creating something thats a copy of something else from somewhere else is what troubles me.

imperialist? pre-concieved western notions? ur rather quick on assuming what the other person's thought process is. i say i just called a spade a spade. Art reflects society, has the power to change opinions...not that this is what a movie should do in order to be good but there is little that indian movies collectively do.

for the record i am one for the dance and songs... in certain situations it helps portray the feel and emotions smoothly,why on earth would u assume i am opposed to it? perhaps because (and no offense intended) you yourself have per-conceived notions about people you hardly know.

indian movies which are worth the time doesn't really get a mainstream release ever, they can only be seen during those film festivals. the reason i reject Bollywood as an art form is not because they dont fit western standards, but because it lacks creativity once they fix that and make movies with heart and soul i will not complain.

the fact is there are horrible hollywood movies which sometimes seem like a bollywood flick (Anger Management?} but they do make quality films.

i mean there is so much a movie can do... think about the issues a common man faces in this country and all the wrongs that he does (for instance breaking traffic rule on every given opportunity, molesting and eve teasing, racially\religiously discriminating etc)... a movie can propel you into soul searching, can make you see your faults. how many indian movies have you seen lately which even attempt to do that?

think about war and violence. how many war movies have u seen which portrays the horrors of war? instead all we get is LoCs and Borders portraying Pakistanis as brute and evil.

i am not saying indian movies are bad because they have dances... but because they dont have any soul. art must have soul.

do u realize it is apparent that you r trying too hard to come across as someone with profound knowledge and insights while subtly insulting a billion people whom you consider to be in a rat race to sell out their cultural values for westernization?

You feel that knowledge of Lata and Rafi is an attempt at conveying profound knowledge? Not really, pretty general stuff fella and I wasn't insulting anyone, if i wanted to insult someone i do not shy away from doing so.

india has such remarkable ability to adapt and include other cultures that it doesn't feel puerile to appreciate rock music. it is rather naive to think that if someone listens to Guns N' Roses they have forfeited all things indian and are trying hard to be americanized.

And where was it that you percieved that i was saying listening to Guns n Roses suggests they have forfeited all things indian? In fact, my post didn't even mention Guns n Roses, the idea of the post was sparked by Guns n Roses coming over there but if you read the post it is referring to the current culture existing in India today and referred more precisely to cinema and Indian artists.

for all the knowledge u seem to posses about india it is rather disappointing that you failed to notice that India is one those cultures which doesnt discriminate any art form on the basis of its origin.

Right but there's a difference between discrimination and what amounts to ethnic forgery.

how absurd it is then to suggest that someone going to a rock concert is obsessed with making India a third-rate copy of American culture. india is over 5000 years old. we have survived the test of time. we have adapted many foreign thoughts and believes over the centuries and made them our own. perhaps this is why i dont feel like a treacherous sellout as you would have me feel when i play the rock songs i have written with my rock band.

I agree with this actually, from "india is over 5,000 years old" onwards. Definitely. Nobody mentioned treachery...or selling out all these highly emotive phrases you employ, i simply said that as a culture the modern incarnation of India seems to be intent on westernising itself which to me is like, i dunno, i expect i'd feel kinda short-changed by that.

The fact is that it does not have to be this way. The British ruled India for fuckin ages, that generation didn't throw it's identity away and even in the 60s/70s/80s there were elements on western culture assimilated but the basic Indianness was preserved, this does not appear to be the case nowadays.

Watch any new Indian film, new Indian song and tell me it doesn't come across as cheap. Explain to me why in every new Bollywood film they might as well be in English cuz all the actors keep saying what they're saying in English half the time. I mean, why do that, Indians flock to see Bollywood films in droves, if all of these people understood English then they'd be watching those movies, this is their thing and should be a reflection of that.

Seriously, you wanna talk to me about Indians and wholesale copy and forgery of western culture, watch Ram Jaane and then watch Angels With Dirty Faces and tell me that it ain't indentical? At least in Ram Jaane the setting is still vaguely recognisable as India, these days it's even worse. And this ain't just one film this is most of that industry, i could literally go on all night picking out movies and songs that are just straight rip offs.

I'm not trying to insult you or insult your culture, fuck, your culture IS my culture, i'm from Azad Kashmir, or my family is, the older uncles of my family were born in India, i'm brown-skinned, this isn't some kind of race assault, this is me looking at a culture that i feel to be partly mine and feeling sadness for the state it is in.

This is not the way you get respect, by copying and by mimicry and by forgery, this does not make people look at Indians and erase all the embarassing memorys of little men in loincloths and red dots on their heads, fuck that shit and bring those men back.

Each culture should bring something of itself to the table, that is how you get respect, not by mimicry. As for the Mark Twain quote, thats pretty much my whole point to begin with here.

People don't stand up and tell you things like this unless they consider you apne, others will just laugh at you or be afraid of offending you.

your point about indian movies ripping off american movies is something i agree to completely but that is a separate debate all together and perhaps this isnt the right forum for it. However i will say that raam jane isn't the only western movie to be shamelessly copied. in fact the way i see is that filmmakers don't want to spend much on original and quality scripts when they can easily rip off a foreign movie for nothing. i often say that if one went looking for the most apt words for things their search would always end with "Bollywood". just like the name, there is hardly anything original. so much so that i am often compelled to reject indian movies as an art form. instead its just a way of making money with minimum of efforts

As a popular film maker recently said in a talk show that most indians go to theater to escape reality and that is why we make the movies that we do. i actually believe that in india mediocrity sells. people do not question the content they are often shoved down their throat. how else do you explain the extreme popularity of people such as RD Burman who had copied many western songs note by note and had claimed them as his own, or movies such As Sholay which is coped from western cowboy films?

but really most of us can't be bothered with quality when we go inside theaters looking for escape can we?

i dont know why would you think showing people speak in English is a false representation. people do actually converse in english quite often. There are many things they show in these movies which i believe is farce but i dont have a propblem with them showing peopple speak english since we often do converse in english in real life.

what offended me was your remark that you felt sorry for india, culturally speaking. why would u say something like this on a thread discussing a supposed Gnr date in Delhi if not to express your disapproval.

anyway i did not know that you were from the subcontinent. i think you did not mean "they" but "us" when you speak of the culture.

Cheers

i feel sorry for India, culturally speaking.

What do you mean exactly? Like deprivation ?

Well i mean like, they have such a wonderful and rich culture, aincent, y'know, a really old culture, with so much to offer, so much indigenous art, music, all sorts. It literally is one of the most culturally rich places in the world and yet, they seemed obssessed with making themselves or their culture into a third rate photocopy of western/American culture, it's REALLY sad to see and it permeates their cinema, their popular music, everything.

I mean just the range of wonderful instruments that are like, indigenous or ultilised by that country, the sitar, the tabla, the harmonium, their own musical theory, totally different to the western one, a really complex one and they just behave as if they're slightly embarassed by it, it's such a shame. Jesus, just the poets and the natural poetry of that language and the sort of verse it is capable of producing, deep, intricate, and like...y'know, they might sum up in one perfect rhyming couplet what would take like, an entire verse of english verse to convey...and still not quite make it.

Even their music and their singing, i mean singers like Muhammad Rafi, Lata Mangeshkar and all of them. And you just end up with these really puerile takes on Americanisms. You'd think such a rich and aincent culture would have more of a sense of self worth than that.

do u realize it is apparent that you r trying too hard to come across as someone with profound knowledge and insights while subtly insulting a billion people whom you consider to be in a rat race to sell out their cultural values for westernization?

india has such remarkable ability to adapt and include other cultures that it doesn't feel puerile to appreciate rock music. it is rather naive to think that if someone listens to Guns N' Roses they have forfeited all things indian and are trying hard to be americanized.

for all the knowledge u seem to posses about india it is rather disappointing that you failed to notice that India is one those cultures which doesnt discriminate any art form on the basis of its origin.

India is the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. Our most valuable and most astrictive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only!

~~~ Mark Twain (American writer)

how absurd it is then to suggest that someone going to a rock concert is obsessed with making India a third-rate copy of American culture. india is over 5000 years old. we have survived the test of time. we have adapted many foreign thoughts and believes over the centuries and made them our own. perhaps this is why i dont feel like a treacherous sellout as you would have me feel when i play the rock songs i have written with my rock band.

but then again it would take an indian to appreciate the good of both worlds.

No.

Edit: What about Izzy? God, the fact that a lot of people forget about him is just plain mean.

I agree.

i agree as well, can anyone imagine appetite or illusions without izzy?

on topic: it would really depend on what Ashba writes with Axl. if he does actually manage to write genuine rocking riffs then that might answer ur question... slash wrote riffs that left blisters, it would be pretty hard to replace him.

I wonder why Axl likes him THAT much. He seems to like him more than he ever liked any other nugnr member.

wont u say it was Bucket?

There's no point in getting hopes up without official confirmation from the band.

All the same, A 3 city tour would be mind-blowing. The crowds in Delhi tend to riot though - they did at the last Metallica show when there was a delay and the band cancelled.

But, shows. at Bangalore or Mumbai would be fantastic. Metallica sold 40000 tickets in Bangalore but a total of 55000 people snuck into the venue . I'm guessing that with some good publicity beforehand, Guns could easily match that number.

yeah well i remember the delhi fiasco, i was there. one look at the venue and i knew it wasnt gonna happen. thats wht i told my friends... DNA had arranged for metallica to play in a shadi ground. Bangalore concerts are always very well organized. too bad i had bought tickets for the delhi show.

anyway if anything gets confirmed i will book the bangalore show and not delhi where i actually live.

and yes... i do think guns would sell better than maiden or metallica

According to Delhi Times,

GUNS N ROSES,the American hard rock band,is going to perform in Delhi in December.They will be in India for a three-city tour.According to the manager of the band,Rob Macsween,The band will arrive on December 4,and will first perform in Bangalore on December 7,followed by two shows on December 9 and 12 in Mumbai and Delhi respectively.

imagine my disappointment when i did not find any mention of it on the official website or on mygnrforum. :confused:

of course something similar had happened before in 2009 when apparently they were scheduled to play but it turned out to be a rumor

i dont know what to expect. Fortus had replied to an email saying that Axl was planing something for India after the end of summer... so i am hopeful but this doesn’t look reliable.

also is Rob Macsween still their tour-manager?

oh well.

What's wrong with Rod Fuckin' Stewart?

Go watch "Forever Young" on youtube and get back to me. And anyone who can listen to "Do You Think I'm Sexy" without laughing doesn't deserve to call themselves a fan of legitimate rock and or roll.

Rod Stewart is one of the best bluesy rock singers ever. Anyone who thinks the contrary, is a legitimate fucktard.

Any artist who is responsible for something like Do You Think I'm Sexy can NOT be legitimately argued for or defended in any way shape or form. Anyone who thinks contrary should turn in their card at the door and buy themselves a ticket to another genre because they obviously don't know what rebellion and anti-establishment is. There is nothing dangerous or subversive about Rod Stewart. He is a contrived, manufactured, bloated relic of everything that was wrong with mainstream radio in the 1970's. He was always "your moms" music, even before your mom was your mom.

oh boy. and what is your opinion about the beatles?

is it all about the image or does music actually plays a role when a song makes an impression on u?

he would never for obvious reasons... but if he were to cover i'd suggest All Apologies and School.

also cobain wrote excellent lyrics so does Axl. why does it has to be "Either Axl or Cobain" why not both?

off topic, arnold layne is that quote in your sig real?

i was wondering the same thing...

also bucketheadland.com has to be one of the worst designed website out there...

I honestly think cobain wanted attention and it's sad to say but that's why he took his life. I mean look at this guy he pretended he didn't want attention, yet he posed for covers in magazines n even made music videos. The guys fame was fading out as many of my friends who listened to nirvana have told me n even old articles don't even mention him before Nevermind n slightly before his death. It's in till he took his life that his albums took of; people just like to rewrite history. As I recall Nevermind came out in 91 n I remember people lining up for guns illusions albums not nirvanas. Guns was the biggest band in the world for probably 87 to 94 n Axl was the talk of the town till 98 n then boom pop music erased everything again. So please people stop making nirvana look more than what they are these guys basically used Axl to become a bigger band and don't buy that bullshit the media puts out like people were lining up for nirvana albums cause it's pure BS.

are u for real?? forget the Axl vs Kobain crap... are u telling me that as a music fan you really think nirvana sucked? why do you need to believe that guns n roses was the biggest band and axl rose had achieved legendary status until pop music exploded and that nirvana is highly overrated?

i love nirvana... musically/lyrically they are up there with the beatles or stones IMO... and since cobain wrote all of nirvana's song... its him who is at the top. and this is coming from a die hard guns n roses/axl fan.

i am big izzy fan, as someone said above me izzy has a certain degree of "cool" about him...u know he is very rock n roll

i really dig his personal stuff especially "Izzy Stradlin And The Juju Hounds" album... but it is clear that his song could have done with a more polished voice. i dont think izzy wanted to produce super hit songs like he did in Gn'R and thats why he was contend with his below average vocals on his songs.

i guess the question really is about who is more talented... while i'd like to believe that gnr would never have gained the popularity it has gained without the songs that izzy wrote or help write... i feel Axl would have made it on his own anyhow. He has such excellent vocals and writing skills that i think even though i really respect Izzy it's Axl id vote for.

But in terms of being cool... Izzy without a doubt!

i am just curious... was that comment made with contempt towards Axl\gnr or was he just being funny?

Coma is brilliant... But i wont rate it ahead of breakdown or even garden in terms of creativity. i love garden... That 's artistic.

it probably has something to do with his vocals. The song is bad ass and sung with some attitude. not sure he can pull it of live.

Someone said they dint like the solo as much but IMO it builds up nicely for the heavier section, great riff.

Hmm u might think OMG is ordinary but surely its the heaviest song gnr ever recorded? Love the industrial rock thing. Very creative.

I always thought that if they were to shoot a video it should b for Street Of Dreams.

And strangley enough i can almost visualize the video eveytime i hear TWAT. A car going on a road near a desert. Lawyers and mean girls walking around a courthouse. Band smoking and chilling out. and there is always the car going by that desert road when the bucket solo is on. A desert storm building behind axl and and the band during "i could do anything for you" and then the solo with a sand sorm unleashed in its might. So wht wr we talking about again?

Funniest thread i ever came across here. And still some people managed to be bitter.

How does it feel to have such opposite personalites? It must be a like hosting mygnrforum in your head,

Quite right. I have always found that remark unfortunate.

Yeah whts with calling axl redhead? Isnt that an insult? I mean he has a name.

Oh. Happy birthday duff and del james.

Well Piers does seem to mention gnr in interviews... I bet he is a fan. (are u here Morgon?)

I hope he does PM... Because its one of the talk shows we get here. Watching Julian's show wd b fun though. What a guy.

AFD

Favorite: Sweet Child O' Mine

Least favorite: You are crazy

GNR Lies

Favorite: Patience

Least favorite: Reckless

UYI 1

Favorite: The Garden

Least favorite: Back Of Bitch

UYI 2

Favorite: Breakdown

Least favorite: My World

TSI

Favorite: You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory

Least favorite:Down On The Farm

CD

Favorite: There Was A Time

Least favorite: Sorry (almost always skip it)