D..

Marco Beltrami was kind enough to answer me a second time, can't believe he's so kind and took the time, what a great guy! Sadly he doesn't remember Monsters former name. He does remember a song being quite long but unsure if it was The General or another one. But if it was, it's not The General we have, as apparently there was a longer song he worked on (but he's unsure whether that long song was The General back then, maybe it's Seven or another one we haven't heard).

Just to be clear, he did listen to the leaks, I wanted to make sure he understood and could compare with what he remembers, and what we have has been modified from when he worked on those, so I guess it's hard for him to properly remember specific former names. But he does recognize those two songs & his work, and they weren't a single song back then (just like we have a hard time understanding how they could form a single song, as it is). The instrumental part isn't meant to form a continuity between this version of The General, and this version of Monsters, both instrumental were specific creations of his. Each 8 songs he's worked on/arranged had a specific arrangement meant for a particular song.

So it almost confirms for me that Monsters is indeed Soul Monster. And 100% confirms that those "The General" and "Monsters" we have are different songs.

I hope this clarifies things for everyone, now I can only hope Axl will someday clarify more things for us, and 100% confirm this is Soul Monster.

Can't wait for December 8th. Considering the credits things stating "The General and Monsters" as a single song, not everyone agreeing it's Slash & Duff on both songs, we might be in for more surprises! In "worst case scenario", we'll have a better mix/audio quality.

As promised, update. Mr Marco Beltrami was kind enough to answer me (love him, became a fan in 2003 with his score for Terminator 3, was amazed Axl hired him when I learnt about it years later). Here is his answer:

"Hi Guillaume,

wow, you really are racking my brain here because it was so long ago, but this is what I remember:

I was hired to do orchestration/arranging for 8 songs. I believe only a few were released on the album that came out a while ago.

every song was distinct.  any connection between songs I was not aware of at the time, so yes they were all separate orchestrations.

yes, I remember a song called “seven” was my favorite but maybe its changed or evolved since then??  I could be wrong, but the two you list here sound a bit reworked from what I remember.

sorry i can’t be more helpful

marco"

I asked him another set of question to fully confirm if Soul Monster is Monsters, hope he will answer.

But I think we could almost already assume The General, and Monsters, were not connected originally.

Almost 100% sure Monsters=Soul Monster now.

6 hours ago, metalavenger99 said:

This thing about the song names is fucking with my mind. And yes i have a lot of free time now. 

We've had this titles: Leave Me Alone, Soul Monster, Monstrocity(?), Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul, Me & My Elvis, and now Monsters.

It was believed that: Me & My Elvis = Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul = Soul Monster. (And we know that the working title was Leave me Alone at an early point).

Now it turns out that the song called "Elvis Presley and the Monster of Soul" which Axl confirmed to be Soul monster, is different than "Me and My Elvis" found on the storage leaks. Wtf are the odds of that.

But whatever, now we know, that Soul Monster is a part of The General, or that it has been merged with The General or is the successor of it. But when did that happen?

The General+Soul Monster = As epic as Estranged? For me they are up there but anyways, at least they are similar in length. Is there any chance that these two were combined before Bach said what he said? Otherwise why would he say it? (Yeah he is kind of a meme now because according to him "Sorry sounded like doom metal" but go to Youtube and listen to Sorry without vocals, so i personally don't think he is that stupid). 

I know there is a huge debate about wether the CD2 list is real or not, so i'm not gonna take "Monstrocity" into account.

But what's the consensus now about Me&My Elvis? My bet is that someone mislabeled it on the disc that Zutaut kept for him...shame, i loved that name for that song even though we know nothing about the lyrics lol. 

Wait but this predates Beltrami's work... so maybe Me and My Elvis evolved into Leave me Alone but then Axl decided to use the old name back but adding "Soul". So finally, "Monsters" could have already existed at the same time as the rest of the Village demos, but as a rough idea, without the orchestration, and without vocals, and some dumbass mislabeled the completely unrelated instrumental we have on the village tapes as this.

Am i forgetting any important facts?

It basically doesn't matter anymore but this kind of speculation is worth a solid 50% of being a fan of this band lol

 

 

We don't know anything for sure, we need confirmation from the composers involved.

Yes, there's an important fact your forget: the Vienna 2010 phone clip. It was said to be "The General" back then, and it has been believed to be until those leaks on friday. Evader worked on this phone clip to recreate what it may sound like in better quality and it was believed to be "The General". But it turns out this phone clip & Evader's recreation was this "Monsters" song.

Which must mean "Monsters" is part of The General. "Monsters" may even have been titled "The General" at some point, maybe the first part didn't exist at some point, or they were both called The General. The credits people found last week also seem to confirm "The General and Monsters" is a single song and not two separate songs. Or two songs in the same track, at the very least.

"Soul Monster" was never said to be linked to "The General". But as several people said, Marco Beltrami only worked on a few songs, the biggest ones being The General, Soul Monster, and Seven. So it could be The General & Soul Monster already shared the same orchestration back then, and that they went in pair, or were fused at some later stage. Or maybe we've never heard Soul Monster, or maybe we've heard Soul Monster in the form of "Me & My Elvis" before Beltrami's input. Maybe Monsters is just part of The General and doesn't have another name.

Only thing I was positive was that Slash was playing on those leaks (at least on Monsters), but Evader not wanting to gamble on this makes me hesitate. He has by far the best ears on this forum, so if he isn't sure, I can't be 100% sure. I had also tried to cover the phone clip on my end with my piano, turns out I was way off. Can't wait for the vinyl, we'll be able to confirm Slash & Duff on those leaks, at least.

I also wonder if something is missing from those leaks. If those two songs form a single song, there's currently no way to fuse them together. Only way I found was putting Monsters before The General (and not the other way around) and linking the songs with one of the last guitar notes from The General, but it doesn't completely work. I wonder if some part of the orchestra is missing after The General's ending.

Edit: the hell with it, I sent a mail to Marco Beltrami, I hope he will answer.

20 minutes ago, uzi your illusion said:

I guess a part of me just really hates to think of him as this guy who was still really fucked up almost a decade after the relationship ended, totally spent emotionally, and holed up in Malibu staring off into the ocean at all hours of the night. Most people have terrible breakups once or twice, and I can buy into him feeling things differently and more so than most. But it just bums me out to think he maybe never was able to move past it.

That's the part of him that made me a fan. I didn't give a f... about Gn'R before listening to Chinese. I enjoyed some songs on AFD & UYI but not that much. I saw old Gn'R as a cliché of a hard rock band (I've totally changed my point of view with time), I just didn't relate to anyone in this band. CD made me a fan, especially reading about him, interviews, and I then became a fan of the old era, understanding how he came to write lyrics on CD.

Axl is/was (I add "was" because he looks happier and stable now which is great for him) a man of passion, highly sensitive. There aren't that many people who are this passionate. He is/used to be a maniac, very careful to small details most people don't care about. And when you are like this, depending on the subject, you can be a maniac/have zero tolerance/hold grudges for anything. Since he's loyal (what he did with Gn'R different line-ups speaks for his degree of loyalty, not going to detail everything, any fan knows it), it must have been hell to forgive some persons he trusted more than any other.

When you're this passionate, you don't love 50 girls and just move on. There are one or two women, especially one, you never, ever forget when you're a man of passion. Depending of how great she was, what you've shared. Not everyone moves on so easily. Sure you can still hook up with several other women, but that won't heal anything.

Axl made his music as a mean of therapy, and I use his music as a therapy. I don't care for bluesy meaningless rock songs about tequila & drugs.

So this General/Monsters song is particularly important to me, it's like a missing part of the puzzle. I knew he had songs/lyrics like this in him. It's so fucking helpful. He has that talent to express raw, deep emotions with simple words and badass melodies.

I hope there are more songs but I'm more than thankful we got these.

I will update my original post with a full review later, but again, I LOVE those two tracks.

I didn't expect two tracks, I didn't expect The General to be this great, and both songs match my vibes perfectly. It's exactly what I needed.

It's definitely some of the best Guns material from CD. Axl is a fucking genius.

Those two songs are deeper and more personal than most Gn'R songs. I'm sure Axl was hesitating releasing either, it's too personal, hence the vinyl's release push.

Man if he knew how talented he was. I haven't followed him all along for nothing.

And really huge kudos to Slash on those tracks. I have criticized him a lot since 2016 regarding his takes on CD material, but his guitar work is absolutely gorgeous here.

I really hope they release both songs asap, I will buy them right away on several formats. Definitely deserve the money.
 

A huge thanks to whoever is responsible for these leaks. Will definitely buy those songs when they are released.

So we have two different songs:

1) The General

2) Monsters

They are both incredibly good, I've already listened to both 5 times each. Will spend tomorrow playing them on repeat.

It's so crazy finally listening to The General. What's crazier is that it's way better than I expected, and that there are TWO different songs.
I think both were one song at some point.

If you're familiar with Evader's work on The General, turns out what he did is actually very very close to "Monsters".

As for The General, we can clearly hear Marco Beltrami's work. What was used as an intro of some shows in 2006 is used in The General, but it's not the intro of the song!

I can already say this is my favorite material since There Was A Time on Chinese Democracy. Absolutely love those two songs.

What's your opinion?

--------------------------------------------

THE GENERAL Lyrics  (thanks to dave-gnfnr & Gordon Comstock)

Daddy don't
I swear I won't
I'll be good from now on
And I'm awful, sorry

Daddy don't
The hell I won't
I won't be good anymore
And you'll all be sorry

Can anybody tell me
Why the pain, it just won't stop
Can anybody help me
This pain it just won't stop

My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand it
Lacking of respect
And not your sordid meaning

Daddy, don't
I swear I won't
I'll be good from now on
And I'm awful, sorry

Daddy don't
The hell I won't
I won't be good anymore
And you'll all be sorry

Can anybody tell me
Why the pain, it just won't stop
Can anybody help me
This pain it just won't stop

My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand it
Lacking of respect
And not your sordid meaning

Don't know what to tell you now
It's never really what they tell you now

You oughta know what they tell you now
And not really what they tell you now

Don't know what to tell you now
Don't know what to tell you now

Don't know what to tell you now

Don't know what to tell you now

My only regret
Is that I never took the time to forgive
All those unspoken feelings
That were never spared
And those who understand it
Lacking of respect
And not your sordid meaning

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Huge thanks to evader for his original mix & evader, dave-gnfnr and evilfacelessturtle for the lyrics to Monsters

MONSTERS Lyrics

[Refrain]
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't get me

[Verse 1]
A tour-de-force of an evil old passion
A broken heart that was out of fashion
Dynamic duo, keep your figure crashing
My early warning was your satan laughing

[Chorus]
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh, but it's over now
Oh, but it's over now
I was there, for you
It's all I, could do
Oh, but it's over now
Oh, but it's over now

[Refrain]
The monsters can't help me
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't kill me

[Verse 2]
You stole my soul with the devil's romancing
All alone in your bedroom, dancing
Thought I could feel, somebody worth having
But in the end I guess you're good for the damage

[Chorus]
I was there, for you
It's all I, could do
Oh, but it's over now
Oh, but it's over now

[Guitar Solo]

[Refrain]
The monsters can't kill me
The monsters can't get me
The monsters can't help me
The monsters can't...

[Bridge]
The more I did, what I did, I did for you
There's no excuses for the hell on Earth you put me through
I never cared how much I cared, when I cared for you
To make it better there was nothin' that I wouldn't do
I doubt there's anybody left that wants to know the truth
The dirty secret that you hid away inside of you
Whoever thought I'd be around to shed a light on you
Well here's the story baby, I got nothin' else to do

[Chorus]
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh, but it's over now
Oh, but it's over now
I was there for you
It's all I could do
Oh, but it's over now
Oh, but it's over now

I was there for you
It's all I could do

I was there for you
It's all I could do

(It's over)
(It's over)

I was there for you
(It's over)

Oh but it's over now