uzi your illusion

1 hour ago, 22frets said:

To be honest, Slash goes pretty nuts on the outro solo of TG. I don't blame the untrained ear for thinking that it's Bucket. 

Hope he plays something similar live going forward. I really need to figure out what the heck he's doing so I can learn it myself. 

The outro is something completely different, but the rest of the parts are almost the same. 

So weird for him to play something totally different from what's recorded, if in fact what we have is the official version. It's not like Estranged or some of the others that he's probably a bit tired of playing note for note. Lends more credence to the possibility that the version we've heard might be Bucket?!

For the guitar players on the board, how close is Slash's live solo vs. the leaked version of the song?

1 hour ago, Arnuld said:

After listening to these two tracks a bunch it’s obviously Slash on Soul Monster. But I’m not sure about the general. The more I listen to it it sounds more like Robin and then Bucket on that outro. Is anyone else thinking the same? 

Gotta admit I thought the same. But I've deferred to the guitar players on the board to say whats what. But at first glance as someone who's listened to Slash and Bucket for countless hours, I thought General was BH and Monsters was Slash. To my "novice" ears at least.

I know it's been discussed but it is still lost on me why it would still be called "The General" if the title originally comes from what Brain was eating at the time.

Would love to know why Axl decided to keep that "placeholder" title for a song with seemingly very deep subject matter.

I know it's been discussed but it is still lost on me why it would still be called "The General" if the title originally comes from what Brain was eating at the time.

Would love to know why Axl decided to keep that "placeholder" title for a song with seemingly very deep subject matter.

32 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

It's very funny how this confusion about the orchestral intro led to a chain of misconceptions, which in turn led the fanbase to years long "certainties" and "facts" that ended up being proven wrong:

- The General gained mythical status after Bach's comments and Axl's vague statement ("you may have heard parts of it somewhere") intrigued fans even more. Fake snippets and lyrics started circulating.

- Then came the hint in the GN'R tweet about the orchestral intro. The date of the tweet was Dec. 11, 2010, four days after the show in Adelaide where the orchestral piece from what we now know is Monsters/Soul Monster was used as intro seemingly for the first time - before that, the orchestral intro that was played at shows was only from what we now know is The General. But the slight similarity of the two different pieces/intros, and maybe the timing of the tweet, led the fanbase to believe that both were part of The General.

- In 2018, the cell phone recording from the Vienna party in 2010 surfaced. Fans with good ears recognized the orchestral part from Monsters, which they then thought was from The General, and Evader used it for his own reconstruction of the phone clip. So it was case closed that the barely heard song in that recording was The General and fans could get an idea of what it sounded like through Evader's version.

- So, since we "knew" what The General sounded like, Soul Monster, the other "big gun", would have to be looked for elsewhere. And a year later, among the loads of leaks of rough mixes from Zutaut's storage locker, there was an instrumental titled "Me and My Elvis". The word "Elvis" in the title combined with the somewhat Sabbath-y sound of it were enough for the majority of the fanbase to connect the dots with Axl's description of the song Soul Monster and jump to the conclusion that it was the same song, even though the earliest confirmed title of Soul Monster ("Leave Me Alone") left room for doubt. Many fans even renamed their downloaded track of "Me and My Elvis" into "Soul Monster", and the track started being shared with that title and not with the title it had in the Village discs. So it ended up being known as Soul Monster and some fans are still confused even now.

And, once again, "insiders" didn't know any of this and had it all as wrong as the rest of the fanbase.

 

What exactly were the circumstances of the cell phone recording coming out? I know the clip, but I'm not familiar with how we came about it, or how it was sat on for 8 years (based on your above post).

25 minutes ago, Mikey Whipwreck said:

Perception Reality Life

This is a guess? Or is that a phrase from somewhere?

The bridge on "Monsters" with those amazing vocals take me right back to the best parts of I.R.S. with the same classic Axl voice.

Love every second of it.

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

The school bell and the spelling bother me, too,  but not to the point to ruin the song for me.

I don't get why it's such a big deal. It's not like there hasn't been cheesy stuff on GN'R songs before. "Cool ranch dressing", for example - I haven't seen many people being so put off by that.

I dislike the bell a lot but always thought of it as a bit of a nod to "School's Out". Obviously we knew the boys all love Alice.

4 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

True, he could have had other relationships. However, I think it's highly unlikely that there were relationships that affected him as deeply as the ones with Erin and Stephanie. And even in the interview he did with Rolling Stone in late 1999, he basically implied that a lot of the album would be about Stephanie when he said that he hoped Dylan would listen to the it one day.

Yea I think that's right that a lot of it could be about her. I just recently re-read the chats he did here and he speaks a lot about how most of his songs are only partially influenced by sole individuals, and how even if they sparked an idea for a line, they maybe aren't the basis for the rest of the song. So I'm sure the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I guess a part of me just really hates to think of him as this guy who was still really fucked up almost a decade after the relationship ended, totally spent emotionally, and holed up in Malibu staring off into the ocean at all hours of the night. Most people have terrible breakups once or twice, and I can buy into him feeling things differently and more so than most. But it just bums me out to think he maybe never was able to move past it.

By the way, if you haven't listened to these songs on headphones, you're doing yourself a massive disservice.

1 hour ago, Underhardy said:

You know, Taylor swift gets a lack of flack for her amount of breakup songs. Axl gives her a run for her money with the Seymour songs haha. Not hating, I love how he writes his deepest emotions into songs. Monsters lyrics are basically an extension of There Was A Time, same vibe, about a crazy narcissistic woman who is emotionally and mentally tormenting Axl. ‘I would do anything for you, there was a time.’ And ‘I was there for you, it’s all that I could do.’ And of course a couple lines about the promiscuous sexual nature of the lady. I wish I could make out what Axls deep vocals are on the song. ‘The Monsters have _____ me,’ is what I hear, there’s a super heavy robotic effect on those deep vocals, unlike the more raw deep vocals on TWAT and Shacklers. 
 

Really hope we get State of Grace soon… it’s interesting that The General at the end has the same vocal scatting melodys as State of Grace in the climax of that song. Half of the parts, Axl seemed to not have the lyrics for yet. He’s 100% switching between singing words and just the Melodies at the end of The General and I can’t imagine that’s what Axl wanted the final outcome to be. Just like how he eventually found the right words to end Street of Dreams.

I read this comment quite a bit, but who's to say that these songs are about Stephanie? He could have had plenty of other relationships through the years that weren't public, that also could have ended badly. 

7 minutes ago, Arnuld said:

Monsters is definitely its own song

You dont think it shares orchestration from The General? I was pretty sure I hear the same bits in both parts.

Or do you view them as part 1 and part 2 when you say 2 songs?

6 minutes ago, evader said:

That epic guitar trill is from a Buckethead song called "Infiltration" (2007 album Cyborg Slunks). Look it up on Youtube if interested. The bits used for my mix start at 2:57.

My first solo on it was a rebuild of Finck's solo using FL studio, which sounded lame. I replaced it with BH notes from the stems. Then a bit later, I (re)stumbled upon "Infiltration" and just knew that was the tone I wanted for that solo.

Evader

Can you wadger a guess as to how clean or raw you think the vocal tracks on General are? Meaning, in your opinion and with your experience, do you think this is the final product or do the vocals seem weird to you? At least in the chorus of the first part of the song.

8 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Maybe - but it could be a similar situation to absurd, where Pitman and a lot of the NuGuns guys weren't listed even though they wrote it. I'm just not sure I trust the writing credits from GNR to be factual.

Isolated would definitely help, as it currently stands its quite buried under heavily distorted vocals and effects.

Help me undertand. If Pittman wrote stuff, but his parts were recorded over would he still be listed on the credits.

is it possible that his contract in Guns paid him as an independent contractor who forfeited any writing credits in leiu of say a bonus if material was recorded and distributed? Is that a possibility?

7 minutes ago, Bulldog said:

Not to throw my hat into the "whose playing guitar" discussion... but to my ears it's Buckethead in the outro of the General, Slash throughout Monsters, and Fortus at the tail end of Monsters.

The General outro is pretty consistent with Bucket's wah sound/tone, fast picking, and half bends he does. I'm surprised so many people are 100% convinced it's Slash (which it very well could be)

If that was the case though wouldn't Bucket be listed in the writing credits?

7 minutes ago, pbj_jam said:

Oh for sure there's FNM influenced stuff there, wouldn't put it at the top of that list, but it's there. Lotta late 90's along with the mentality of progressing naturally beyond illusions. He did get too busy with chasing trends instead of focusing on material presented, which imo was up to snuff.

You know I've always bucked against that line about Axl trying to chase the trends. I think if you hear a song or style you like and then it pushes you creatively to make something that is in your style but now influenced by the newer material that you're hearing, that shouldn't be looked at as a negative.

I guess it would be one thing if we thought he heard Linkin Park for example and decided he wanted to add a rapper to try and appeal to the younger kids, but he didn't legitimately like that sound. It's something different to be inspired by a sound and then create based on that. Just always struck me as a cheapshot when people said that. Like in 2002 with the braids and the jerseys, I always assumed Axl just liked the look. Not that he wanted to look like he belonged in a Wu Tang video.

2 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

 

I love your write up and theorising...I was thinking similar things as I hyper focused my ears on Axl's words...so there must be something to all our interpretations and feelings we're extracting from our listening experiences...

I'm so anticipation the final mixes and the 💯 sign off from the band on how these tunes are meant to be heard and taken...but the extremely moody vibe and dark chilly atmosphere throughout with Axl sounding desperate and broken but also on the attack and breakout free of the ties that bind are the coolest Guns moments in many a decade for me. 

To me, it was a no brainer why this was coming out Halloween week ...so I hope they can still, in online form. Be a shame to miss the theme tie-in if that was their aim.....

Remember during the Axl Chats, the man himself said he'd rather not comment about exact inspirations to give the fans some time to develop their own ideas. So here we are!

I get lots of late era Faith No More influences from these two gems. Think "Stripsearch", "Last Cup Of Sorrow", "Paths Of Glory"

Anyone else hear that?

No clue how close or far off this interpretation might be. But I've heard the 9 minute one now a ton of times.

I take the first part [General] to refrence the child abuse that took place early on in his life, with the eerie orchestration in the background acting as the manifestation of those feelings that the abuse could cause.

And Monsters, as the companion piece, sounds like it's about a failed relationship with a woman later on in life that falls apart for whatever reason. But prehaps the abuse suffered early in life still seeps into Axl's day to day, underlined again by the same orchestration during this part of the song, and that the abuse will always play a part poisoning his adult relationships.

That's how I'm reading into it. And if it's close to being accurate, it's exactly what I would have hoped for as a fan who waited on CD and knew it could live up to his artistic heights.

1 minute ago, megaguns1982 said:

I just don’t know…. I really like monster , in fact I’ve been cranking it on my car stereo for an hour straight as it’s the best stereo I own. Not keen at all on the general.

to my ear monster sounds like Robin playing lead, especially the solo. He was quite good at doing a kinda industrial slash thing when he wanted to.  I’m certain this is just an old version someone has leaked and the new one will have most parts replaced.

im probably wrong…

"kinda industrial slash"

I really like that lol

These few and far between days are really as good as the forum ever gets

Savor it boys and girls

I've been an avid fan since 1996 and heard Axl sing countless hours and I'm having a hard time making out some of these vocals in General. Even in the "cleaned up" version. I have a hard time believing that General is the final version. Monsters however sounds pretty perfect.

3 minutes ago, DingBat said:

What version are you listening to? There is a tinkered with version that's a lot clearer.

I heard one from gnrevolution.com 

Wheres the version you are referring too?

I think Monsters is amazing from the first listen. I'm getting there on General but my issue with it is how hard it is to make out the vocals. So if it's an unmastered/demo version it would be unfair to judge. 

Really enjoy what I can make out though. 

On 8/28/2023 at 4:13 PM, Voodoochild said:

Would love to know. Maybe The Blues and CD or Madagascar? Back in 2000 the album was basically the Village demos.

Was relistening to annold Appetite For Distortion podcast with Sean Beaven and he mentions that it was his idea to bring in Bob Ezrin. Maybe if he comes on the podcast again @Gambit83 could ask him if he heard about Ezrin's feedback or if he ever spoke to Axl about it after the fact.

5 hours ago, Coma16 said:

Axl angry tweeting while hiding in the bathroom

What's this a reference to?

On 9/2/2023 at 8:10 PM, Slugworth said:

 

And

 

 

I'd love to hear isolated audio of what Axl is playing when he picks up the guitar.