Bobbo

8 hours ago, Eddie Money said:

I can confirm that CD era songs will be played on this tour - at least 2 songs.  

Jesus, really? Why? Absolute waste of time. But then again, not surprised.

Axl being a stubborn cunt and attempting to legitimize the nu songs by having what the public deems legit members playing them. Despicable  If Slash and Duff don't get to at least play a VR song (which general audiences actually know), they're pathetic for being the bitch boys I always hoped they wouldn't be.

Guessing either or street of dreams and this I shit, or better and this I shit.

4 hours ago, Billsfan said:

Literally nothing indicates that pitman is out. He's not going anywhere. Deal 

He had a thinly veiled shit fit on Facebook and then deliberately took GNR out of his bio on the exact same day. And Eddie money (who has been spot on with everything else) has said he believes Pitman's out. So learn to read through the lines I guess?

Can we replace Pittman with Izzy in the banner? All signs seem to point to him being out, and Izzy being back in. Eddie Money seems to believe the lineup's gonna be Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy, Dizzy, Fortus, and Frank, and he's been on point with everything else he's predicted. The sooner we can shit can that kiddy gobbler off with Ashba, the better

Which is fine as long as you're not pretending to be something you're not while doing it. That wasn't the case.

To be fair, Street of Dreams does sound like something that could fit on the Illusions. Maybe This I Love as well. But that's it. And even those songs sound like poor man versions of what Axl has already done before, and better. They're the twonkies to November Rain's and Estranged's twinkies.

Everything else was so drastically different from what Guns N' Roses already established itself to be. There's nothing that you can connect the dots to. And that's because it was missing essential ingredients. Izzy and Slash were just as important to the song structure and the sound of the band as Axl was. Without at least those two, Axl never even had a chance to make a proper GNR record.

Also I've never taken a hiatus like this before. It'll be 7 weeks this Saturday. How long does it usually take to regain what you've lost? I've heard some people say 2 weeks or so but others tell me that's more urban mythish. Again any and all advice will be appreciated

Anyone ever suffer from wrist tendonitis before? Apparently I got it in both my wrists the Saturday before Christmas. It's been awful. Basically whenever I would make a four with my hands it would be tight and painful right below the palm side of my wrists. I'm feeling a bit better, and I wanna start weight lifting again sooner rather than later. I got an Mri done and apparently I only have mild tendonitis in the back of my wrists now. The pain is more annoying and a pain in the ass more so than anything. When should I start slowly get back into weightlifting? I made so much progress the past year and it's breaking my heart seeing it wither away now :(.

Any input at all input would be greatly appreciated.

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

Tracy, Roberta and Teddy? Please tell me you were just suggesting some additonal band members and that these aren't actually included in the ineup for the upcoming shows.

No more bloatedness.

I was only joking about the Tracy Roberta and Teddy part. The fact is that I know the Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy will be involved and there is a committee so to speak that gives input and represents the interest of their band members to the oversight management team.

I can answer this. There's an oversight management team and then each principal member (Axl, Slash, and Duff) have a representative on a committee, and there is also a forth person to look out for the interests of the unrepresented participants (Richard, Dizzy, and Izzy, Tracy, Roberta, Teddy Zig Zag, etc).

I can dig that, but this:

Axl is always in control. Everyone goes through him.

has always been the case.

So I guess what I'm wondering is even with that management style in place, how would things work out?

Let's say for example, that Slash wants to do the AFD version of You're Crazy but Axl doesn't want to do the song at all. Is that something the management board would work out?

I can't answer that, but I don't think it's that extreme. Hopefully, the band works those details out among themselves. There are much bigger decisions concerning marketing, $$$, tour dates, travel, etc.

No. Not yet at least. We know essentially nothing about how this reunion fire got lit, so it's way too soon to tell.

To me, they've always been leeches. Beta let that mask slip. They know how to work Axl, and they know he's their entire life line. They know fuck all about properly communicating with the fans, and management 101 is knowing not to wear your emotions on their sleeve, which they're hilariously bad at. I know they get some vile things thrown their way, but their response to it is all wrong. You're not supposed to throw venom on top of venom when you're supposed to be managing one of the biggest names in music.

Are they really still in charge now that Slash, Duff, and (possibly) Izzy are back now? That'd just be sad. I'd imagine they'd still be Axl's personal manager(s), but the band as a whole would be managed by an unbiased powerhouse properly equipped to deal with something of this magnitude.

After thinking about it some more, I don't care about the cash grab aspect because to me it's been a cash grab since at least 2011. It was only used in a derogatory manner towards the nu band because the lot of them had nothing to do with the material being played or the weight the name carried, so it felt cheap. Talented as some of them may have been, it was just a tribute. It never felt you were getting what you were paying for on the ticket stub.

At least now we have a more legitimate version gaining the cash off the music and brand they actually built. And it's not like it's a complete piss pool of hate. Slash, Duff, and Izzy are all friends. Duff, Izzy, and Axl have all kissed and made up. And I have to believe Axl and Slash are at least cool now for this reconciliation to even be on the table. The pure venom Axl has spit towards Slash has just been too harsh for this reunion to be that illegitimate. And I doubt, with a supposive net worth of 150 mil, that he NEEDS this reunion to happen, so I find it hard to believe it's as bad as it seems.

Maybe there is some rhyme or reason why things have been on the quieter side. I'm at least gonna wait and see what happens right after these Vegas shows before I completely make up my mind.

Fuck the reunion...

This is the REAL Guns N Roses!

I was thinking about opening a thread about the reunion, some weeks later.

Yes, it's unbelievable that in some month Axl and Slash will share the same stage again.

But the thing that most catches my attention right now is the lack of press, and the anticlimatic promotion to motherfucking reunited GNR. Maybe I'm being impatient but they're once again turning a major event into something that looks painful for them, like the release of Axl's solo record Chinese Democracy.

It's like reunion is the "R word" for them. They're all completely silent. Frank, Dizzy and Fortus are on board for a super mysterious adventure, which obviously is working for GNR this year. Why being so secrective? Once again, hopefully things will move on and I'm just being too anxious.

GNR's latest tweet is pathetic. Once again the 'us against the world' mentality. Seriously, fuck off with that attitude!

Duff and Slash are being very respectful and playing by Axl/TB's rules, how long will that last?

Axl, Beta, guys... you're just a rock n' roll band, no need for this Area 51 strategy. I thought that the WTTJ teaser before Star Wars was part of some great marketing campaign but things seem to have returned to regular GNR/Axl approach. Silence, people out ta get him and trying to get attention at his expense. Pathetic.

Hey insider guy, Shitman's out, right? Please tell me it's true.

Which is why I specifically said from the start that they shouldn't start the writing process over again, merely only the recording process. Take the foundation of the big guns Axl has, and whatever the others guys have, and flesh it out based on who's here. I mean really, I'm not sure what you're missing here as I've actually been saying the polar opposite of what you're accusing me of. My premise has been make these songs reflect who the band is now. Not adding after thoughts to material of the band that never really was. For example, November Rain was written by Axl in 83 and there were even demos. But it wasn't a revolving door of whoevers adding, copying, and pasting all the way up to 91. It was recorded and fleshed out by the then gnr, and was a song that was defined by the players who were actually guns n roses in that moment. That's what this band should strive for now.

Am I confused about the fact that they can remove guitar parts? No. Did they do that for CD? Kinda in some places, but for the most part not really. Were there a lot of cases where there was just shit piled on by shit piled on by even more shit by a revolving door of musicians? More so than not. And that's what I don't want. That's what most fans don't want.

im well aware the old band wrote songs separately, but again, at the end of the day, the actual result of the their output was reflective of the then current lineup releasing them. Not people playing along with old ghost members they never even met and that haven't been in the creative process in a decade. THAT'S what would be asinine.

Assuming by an even bigger miracle than the reunion itself we actually get a whole new album of material, please please, PLEASE don't let it just be Slash and co just adding after thoughts to CD 2.

Even people who absolutely loved CD had a major gripe with the copy and paste structure. It lacked cohesiveness. It was completely frankensteined. It sounded like a money pit of (mostly) talented musicians coming and going, not a passionate group effort work of art. Don't make the same mistake twice.

Restart the whole writing process? No, not necessarily. But sure as shit start the recording process over. Throwing Slash, Duff, etc. into a clusterfuck of clusterfuck material is a huge waste of time and opportunity. At least rerecord the music. Take all the good shit Axl had in the vault, what Slash, Duff, and (hopefully) Izzy may have wrote, and any potential material lost from the 90s sessions, and throw them all into a melting pot. That to me would be the best route to go down, again assuming new music is even a topic of conversation among them.

Thoughts?

Here is the problem with that train of thought:

1. You are calling music you have never heard a turd. It may be epic, it may be a turd. You don't know because we have not heard it.

2. Applying this same logic, Just another Sunday, Bring it back home, Crash Diet, sentimental movie and all of the fabled "finished songs" that just needed Axl's vocals would all be turds because the original versions did not involve all band members.

3. I remember reading Slash saying the only song on Illusions that they recorded as a band was Shotgun Blues. The rest of it was piecemeal, leaving UYI 1&2 in the crap category.

2+3. It was one thing recording songs separately eventually coming up with a finished product. And it's all from one single era of recording with essentially one lineup of the band of that specific era. It stands for more and is way more defined artistically. With "CD 2" it's all fractured, recorded parts, from various fractured lineups. It'd be riddled with after thoughts. It'd be murky and confused. It would be a gigantic mistake.

Just because we're hilariously starved as fuck as a fanbase now doesn't mean we should settle for second rate, or essentially ANYTHING. What may look appealing now is just gonna look disappointing in retrospect.

Again they should keep foundations from what Axl has, as well as what they had in the past and may have come up with now. But they need to sculpt it with the tools they have now, instead of just gluing a broken vase.

Yeah, but I want quality over quantity.

If he's gonna go for releasing new material at this point in his career, go big or go home. What's convenient isn't always what's best.

Assuming by an even bigger miracle than the reunion itself we actually get a whole new album of material, please please, PLEASE don't let it just be Slash and co just adding after thoughts to CD 2.

Even people who absolutely loved CD had a major gripe with the copy and paste structure. It lacked cohesiveness. It was completely frankensteined. It sounded like a money pit of (mostly) talented musicians coming and going, not a passionate group effort work of art. Don't make the same mistake twice.

Restart the whole writing process? No, not necessarily. But sure as shit start the recording process over. Throwing Slash, Duff, etc. into a clusterfuck of clusterfuck material is a huge waste of time and opportunity. At least rerecord the music. Take all the good shit Axl had in the vault, what Slash, Duff, and (hopefully) Izzy may have wrote, and any potential material lost from the 90s sessions, and throw them all into a melting pot. That to me would be the best route to go down, again assuming new music is even a topic of conversation among them.

Thoughts?

Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Richard, Frank. No one knows anything about whether or not they'll continue on with a third guitarist, but if they do it seems Dave Kushner's name keeps coming up. Izzy will no doubt at least make guest appearances. Who the hell knows with Steven and Matt other than that they definitely won't be regulars? And all signs seem to point to Shitman being out now (at least for touring), and good fucking riddance.

As said many times, there's no fucking logical reason to even bother playing the nu songs. No one cares, and there's literally no pay off doing it in the long run. But Axl's fragile ego will never allow the songs to just be dumpstered babied. So we'll probably be force fed at least 1 or 2. I'd imagine, especially if Kushner is really involved in this gig, we'll probably get 1 or 2 VR songs as well. Personally, I hope they just stick to 87-91 stuff, but again I highly doubt Axl's stubbornness will admit the reality that the CD stuff never connected with a major audience, and that nobody cares. Abandoning the material is doing just that.

Anastasia, Fall to Pieces, and/or Slither in that order.

No.

Next question

I don't know. For some reason I think Matt would be pissed being left out of the reunion (assuming he is). Reasonably or not. I don't know. The lack of confirmation of who's in besides Axl, Slash, and Duff is driving me nuts.

So this means at the very least Matt, Duff, and Slash are on good terms. Interesting...

Damn. Scott, Lemmy, now Bowie? What an awful month.

I keep saying it, but since the conversations been repeating itself...

I love VR, ChiDem, Snakepit, Conspirators, etc but none of that should be played here. This is, at its core, a celebration of classic GNR like the hall of fame. I was psyched with the ChiDem songs at the shows I was at, but theyve been done to death. We dont need them at these shows or on this tour. Same goes for the Slash and Duff stuff.

We should get a set showcasing the hits, a couple UYI/Appetite deep cuts, and ideally, a couple new songs

I think they should do CD tunes live. Would be cool to hear Slash on CD. You never know. Maybe Axl might release CD2 with Slash. Never say never...

I can only see Slash agreeing that if Axl also agrees to some VR/Slash songs, like Slither etc.

Would that make sense tho?

Slash is joining GnR. So he should be prepared to play anything from the GnR catalog. I would bet Axl and TB are pretty adamant about that.

Why would GnR play songs from Slash, duff catalog as solo artists? That makes no sense at all.

Did GnR play Six AM songs? Replacement songs? Nine Inch Nail songs? Why would they start doing that how?

Not to be pedantic here, but technically Slash, Duff and Axl are "regrouping", for this show at least. Slash and Duff aren't joining the band as replacement musicians or employees, but as former members. Surely people can see the difference?

I think it's also worth mentioning they still own the rights to the songs they created while members of that band, unlike anyone else who has come and gone after them. So to compare them in a way to any other musician who has been a part of Guns post '97 by saying they should be prepared to play anything from the GnR catalog, doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. That's what those other guys were hired and paid to do. This isn't remotely the same thing. I would think the only thing they should really be prepared for, is playing the songs they wrote and recorded while they were still members of GNR. I don't understand the sense of obligation to perform songs they had nothing to do with.

Surely you see the difference between old members of GnR returning to GnR and playing songs that GnR released......as opposed to Axl playing songs created by bands not known as GnR?

Duff joined Axl on tour last year and played CD songs. So adding Slash to the mix means they shouldn't play them? So the number of old members returning would dictate if they play CD songs? One - they play. Two - they don't play?

Using that logic, Sorum didn't create Appetite or Lies. But he still played those songs live. So should he not be expected to play songs from those two albums if he is part of the upcoming tour?

Adler wasn't part of Illusions. If he gets the upcoming gig should he be regulated to just appetite and Lies songs? Dizzy wasn't there for Appetite. Does he sit the bench now for those songs?

Hell, to accommodate past musicians only playing songs from albums they were on the "regrouping" tour is gonna need 17 different band members involved.

CD is a GnR album.

The upcoming tour looks to have Axl, Dizzy, Frank, Pittman and possibly Fortus. Duff has already played CD songs on tour. So they should drop GnR songs because of one guy (Slash)?

If this was a reunion of the original band then I could see them not touching CD. Unless the original guys wanted to. Which they might. Slash might be excited to tackle twat or Better.

But since it looks like five current members and two old guys? Logic is that CD would be included.

IMO.

Anybody that wants Axl to sing VR is a little delusional. That's just odd. I can't even see Slash and Duff wanting to do that. The people that want it now won't want it when they hear it.

GnR didn't play Sixx AM songs, Replacement songs or Cult songs. Why would they start covering members old bands songs now?

You have to also understand that the gnr they were part of and the gnr that exists today are two different, separate, legal entities. It's unclear right now if this "reunion" is a revival of that old entity or not. We have no knowledge on what the legal finalities have come to be, or what kind of compromises have been made. It's all up in the air as far as we're all concerned.

But we know Slash wasn't a big fan of the cd stuff, and that there's literally no pay off playing those songs live anymore. Maybe 10% of any given audience are aware of those songs existence, and maybe about 5% of that same audience would really give three wet farts as to if they're played or not. And let's be honest here, that's being generous. Again, why make things awkward if you don't have to, and when the mass majority of the audience wouldn't even appreciate it anyways? The CD stuff made absolutely no impact on the masses. So might as well just stick to the 87-91 material that did.

But if Axl's gonna be a cry baby about it, then playing the two VR hits would be a fair compromise. Like I said, Tommy and Bumble got to play their solo stuff at shows. And Slither and Fall to Pieces made way more commercial impact than Better or This I Love did. Chances are, Average Joe would be more prone to know and appreciate those songs, and it keeps things leveled. No inflated egos, no bullshit. Like I said, if Axl's willing to have Slash and Duff's guitarist from VR playing with them, I doubt he'd then have much trouble compromising this. Plus, them playing each other's stuff from when they were apart would send a message of unity. Like the hatchet has really been buried.

But simply making Slash and Duff Axl's bottom bitches is just gonna be a recipe for disaster, and horribly depressing to witness. Let's just hope that's not really the case.