Eu4ic

I say absolutely.

"Too generic" -- I see nothing generic about the song. I think most listening close enough to hear the "generic rock" rhythm will also hear the nuances which make the song both accessible and good. I think it gives a nod to the past and brings its best qualities up to date.

Pinball Wizard, I appreciate your civility, good sir. Good points you've made, also.

And, Mike Patton is great. I love the first fantomas album and enjoy Bungle, Secret Chiefs also. "Easy like Sunday morniiinnn', Yeeeaaaah!" He can really sing, and is experimental. "Falling to Pieces" is one of my favorite songs and videos, period.

Axl should be on the top10 list of the best voices in Rock. Without thinking too much I can come up with a bunch of names of singers in rock who have both Technic (how you control your voice and your range) and charisma, like: freddie, bruce, bach (one of the most underrated singers in rock/metal), dio, halford, plant, tyler, gillan...given Axl's prime, he definitely deserves a spot among the greatest of all time.

The thing is, as a singer myself, I think what makes someone a great singer is not only what they could do in their prime, but how they maintained that high level of quality throughout their career. That is when Axl loses ranking, in my opinion. I'm not bashing Axl's voice or whatever, but he was never consistent, even during his heydays, just watch any bootleg from '91 and then another from '92/'93 for proof. On the other hand, guys like bruce, freddie, bach, dio and tyler managed to keep on a good level of quality, regardless of age, drug addiction, mishandling of your instrument at some point of their career and so on - that is why I think these guys deserve to be ranked higher than Axl, since the talk here is being the best SINGER not the best FRONTMAN. As a frontman Axl only loses to Freddie!

PS: I give more credit to singers who are able to sing stuff other than rock and roll. Take Sebastian Bach for example: the guy is a truly metalhead born to sing metal, but take a listen to the things he sang in Broadway and you'll be astonished! Being a great rock/metal singer doesn't necessarily mean you can do well on broadway for instance - I don't think Dio would do a good job in a gig like this - and I respect a lot more those who can do things other than only rock/metal because they are good SINGERS not only good ROCK SINGERS.

I think consistency is overrated. Axl is about challenging things and doing things differently. Most guys find their style and stay with it, but that's what artists DONT do. If I mention '02 voice, '06 voice, '10 voice, people know what I mean. It adds a mystique and artistic credibility to Axl as a vocalist. My money is that Axl can do whatever he wants, still. Since rocking his ass off in '10 and not having any dates set up for a triumphant return to the US, he was bummed and played it safe for a couple years, but from what I heard I think he can still lay down IRS-level tracks with practice. Also I think its unfair to compare Axl to Freddie because the former looked up to the latter, who is also deceased, which complicates things.

During the verses I hear KOHD with a haunting REM vibe. When the electric guitar kicks in at 1:12, its clear to me one of the best rock riffs I've heard in a long time. It's so heavy and yet so soulful, two words we havent been together in decades it seems. (I think we all know its not DJ Ashba. Hope I'm right haha. Might be Fortus) The solo is mysteriously awesome: is it possible Axl gave industrial music a soul? This is a goal established on Chi Dem but was been unrealized on Chi Dem. I think he might've succeeded here. The fact the solo ends on those particular notes, soaring into the chorus, is something reminding me of the best parts of 80s rock, when the music (sometimes) soared. (The acoustic part in the “You got nothing left to say” also does that.) In the 90s, however, the solos fell, into a usually depressing chorus. In the 00s its just “what's a solo?”, & “what's a good chorus?” Its becoming in the 10s, “What is music?” This track brings into memory so many reference points by which I can attempt to respond to that question. In the meantime, it sounds great and gives me hope.

Kinda like comparing Warhol to Manet to da Vinci. They're not only technically diverse but they have completely different approaches to the craft itself. I think Axl is great because he took rock vocals (and performance) to a completely unknown place, yet clearly carried the spirit of past greats forward, like Robert Plant, Tina Turner, Janis...

And to be honest I've heard few even in metal approach Axl's blood-curdling screams back in the day. He was not just changing his sound, but compromising his own well-being with those screams. Same with his live performance, it was nuts. Something about giving everything for the performance, we like. And for many, that all factors in to what we consider "a good vocalist." Axl does that better than anybody.

I guess they dont play it because its demanding for Axl and it could into a shitty song if he's not ready. The solo spots are partially for Axl to regain his breath. If he's wheezing through Going Down it would sound terrible. I say when they're well into the tour they should play it when Axl's in top form, maybe as an encore, but who knows! Love the song.

I think so.

Even better than Better, which was the only song on ChiDem I could remotely stand.

Not trolling.

Would really like to hear how you rank it against CD songs.

I hear you dude. It's too early to ask that question, probably. We're a stubborn bunch here who clearly having trouble letting go, even of the misery that has been the uber-stressful Chi Dem era. Most people on here have a narrow view and understanding of music, rock n roll, electronic music, Gnr and can't articulate their opinion much less perceive the distinction between objectivity and subjectivity. They just want to be heard.

Personally I think Going Down is very promising. Listening to it all day. It pulls together not only the diverse personnel into a cohesive, organic band, but it reminds me of all their bands in the 80s and 90s, which of course I associate with Gnr, and other great bands that everybody saw and respected, unlike this mainstream shit today.

As for me, I agree its a better sound than most of Chi Dem, which lacked realizing the good ideas that constituted the songs. Axl needs a clearer path and determination to let it rip. He lets it become too ballad-y and depressing and just...not good sounding, on Chi Dem. IRS and CITR did it best though, and I cant really even compare those songs to Going Down, so, I dunno.

soundcloud.com

hugoroseplant

Gracias.

listening to it on repeat. it would easily be on rotation on any classic rock radio.

Agreed. Much more appealing than Better to the average listener or Gnr fan.

I like how the song manages to blend some of the best Skynrd, GNR, Izzy Stradlin, Soul Asylum, Wilco, Replacements styles and a Jane's Addiction-esque solo into one piece.

I wonder how much Fortus is on this? Has a lot of his tone and style.

This song grows on me. I like the lyrics, from what I can hear.

Sounds like CITR chords at the end of the chorus.

I'm feelin the song and I think it's refreshing to hear the band sound like they're in a room together, which none of Chi Dem sounded like. People are historical and physical so having spatial/temporal surroundings are important, at least for a band rooted in a genre like rock where sincerity and organic interplay are significant.

It's like Axl finding his place, and Tommy finding his. The drums have a nice close sound. It's a nice change. I hear some classic GNR, KOHD guitar chords, Axl does some of his signature things also...

The song structurally is tight. Axl comes in/out at the right times. The small things which bring it all together, are what make great tracks. Bringing back "nothin leeft...to do!" at 3:58 is an example.

I'm happy for Tommy, Axl, and the guys today. This might be the biggest breath of fresh air in five fucking years. Cheers!

I didnt like Tommy's vocals at first but after listening to it five or so times, I think his and Axl's -- not just in style but volume in the mix -- sounds outstanding. Please dont fuck this song up with overproduction, Axl, label, whoever.

Goin Down evolves into something promising. Fuck I miss Axl. I STILL BELIEVE.

He's probably writing with Izzy, maybe I'm being optimistic.

I think the reason so many dislike the song is because they either dont like Axl Rose's voice to begin with, or are afraid to admit they do. Riad is one of the most "GNR" songs on Chi Dem. Other rockers like Scraped have good points, but sound more generic than distinctly GNR. No coincidentally, it's also the song they spent the least time on, and Axl was unable to fuck it up.

Even amongst the biggest fans, it has to be admitted that Chinese Democracy is massively inconsistent in terms of quality and style. TWAT and Better, as examples, are as good as anything GNR have ever put out before. In contrast, Rhiad and Scraped are down there with My World - truly awful. The musical styles are also remarkably different - compare the Elton John style piano ballad of This I Love with the ugly, industrial sound of Scraped. Quite simply, they don't belong on the same album at all. It makes Chinese Democracy sound disjointed and unbalanced.

I suspect the reason for this was that the album was rush released after the leaks as a way of minimising the damage. So, although it wasn't what Axl wanted or intended, an unfortunate series of circumstances forced his hand.

This is also why I believe the album is so uneven. I think the leaks (Better, Irs, The Blues, Madagascar, TWAT, etc) obviously had to go on, but the rest of the album was then packed with some lesser quality tracks to make up a full length album.

I really think if things had gone more as planned, songs like Scraped, Rhiad, etc would have been relegated to B-side status and would never have been considered for Chinese Democracy.

Thoughts?

My thoughts--forgive my frankness--is that you dont know what the hell you're talking about. You impose your subjectivity and act as if songs like Better and TWAT are objectively "high points of the album" while giving NO basis for making such an egregious connection. You see, by not qualifying your statements, you sound unintelligent.

I think Better and TWAT are closer to being LOW points of the album. Better has a structure and hook that is extremely pop friendly, but unfortunately it was released at a time and by a person/band that made an edgy, dangerous band look derivative, out-of-touch, and docile. GNR is BETTER than that!

TWAT by contrast is a song that bites off more than any GNR song ever has--a lofty distinction!--and simply can't chew it. Like with most of the album, it sounds like a band with so much diversity that it must resort to their lowest common denominator. Buckethead's solo is a case-in-point: An epic solo, but he's much better than that. So it is with most of Chi Dem.

I like Riad because it has energy and spirit and I'm SURE (against your argument) it was a breath of fresh air to most Gnr fans listening to it on the first day. The reason is it sounds more economical: whereas most of the album is plodding and unrealized, on Riad they said "Let's just make a simple statement, together."

I think if Riad and Scraped had been "relegated to B-sides", you wouldnt have an album, just in the same way that without rocking (like Riad), you have no Gnr.

Izzy and Axl is all ya really need for a great fucking album

Not the best recording, but I like this lesser known one. The keys around 1:25 are nice. Axl's scream at 3:33 is a nice moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP2964gMeo

If Kurt Cobain were around today, all bulked up on steroids with a nutritionist and decked out in tattoos, wouldnt it be kinda weird hearing him perform Nirvana songs?

Daltrey is in good shape but doesnt sound very good. Mick never sounded good. Hetfield hasnt sounded good since '91. All three are in good shape.

I'll take my Axl looking like an Indiana guy than looking like a f, as long as he sounds like '10, or '01-'02, or '06.

Depravity goes well with rock n roll. In '91 Axl was in excellent shape but the band had enough to compensate for it.

I kinda like My World. It's like gangster rap on mushrooms. If Aphex Twin or somebody like that released something like My World, suddenly it would be super cool. Everybody just kinda hates on Axl. He makes himself an easy target, he has red hair, he's from the midwest, he was in arguably the biggest rock band ever. People are envious. People to this day talk shit about Led Zeppelin, as being "stadium rock," but truth is they were just really good and did all kinds of great shit

You know, I used to defend Axl and say "Axl owes us nothing." Then I realized that's bullshit, because HE is the one who made the big promises and gestures, and WE believe him because HE delivers. For us not to hold him accountable is to discredit his achievements; to basically say he is/was a liar; that GNR isnt special and deserving of more than this disgraceful fucking circus. I like and respect Axl, therefore I hold him accountable. I know there's shit out of his hands, but dammit man, can you throw us a fucking bone, please?

I listen to a lot of house music and there are guys with substantial followings who dont have to deal with all the major record label shit. Can't Axl hang out with Izzy and make a song or two and put it on soundcloud with a free download? It would be bigger than current GNR (if he wants) yet infinitely more low-key (if he wants).

PS who the hell started the "team brazil" shit? To even give "them" a title is to give them power they frankly dont deserve, and it makes us sound like a bunch of "Brad vs. Jennifer" dumb fucks.

Gee, I was really excited about seeing a DVD of a terrible show. (Except CITR)

"Talented" is a relative word. I say Duff because my criterion for talent is making something relevant, and in the case of music it needs to sound good and be memorable. Duff was integral to GNR, absolutely. Tommy seems cool in his own way but I dont think he understands GNR or has good taste.

Of course, how could we judge anybody on Chi Dem considering how much Axl was ultimately the one copying and pasting shit to death. Tommy might've written some great stuff, for all I know. I dont like Replacements though.

Hopefully Axl is auditioning new guitar/bass players and getting rid of worthless-ass Pitman and Reed.

GO GET EM UNCLE AX!