themadcaplaughs

7 hours ago, rumandraisin said:

What order do the managers go in? 

Doug until 2001

Merck 2002 till 2006?

Azoff 2008 till 2009?

Doc something 2010 till 2011

Team Brazil 2011 onwards

I think there was some overlap between Dough and Merck. From one of Goldstein's interviews a few years back, I think he said he still managed day to day dealings with Axl as a manager, and was around at least until the 2002 VMAs. I imagine he was dumped shortly after that. I also know Peter Katsis managed the band for a minute (like one or two months) at some point between 2010 and 2011. I want to say after Doc and before Team Brazil, but I could be wrong on the timing, but I'm pretty sure Katsis' team set up the interview with That Metal Show in 2011. 

On the first album: generic songwriting and an even more generic singer (when a more unique or energetic singer could have brought some of those songs to life) combined with the fact that, per Slash's book, the label essentially viewed the album as a way to let Slash blow off steam before he went to record the next Guns N' Roses record. 

As other have pointed out, I think there were also issues with record label on the second era of Snakepit, but the overwhelming feeling was that it just wasn't what people were listening to in terms of rock music at the beginning of the 2000s. Even when GN'R came back in 2001, the discussion focused more on the new players (who were hand picked from various bands who had gotten famous in the years subsequent to Slash leaving the band) and the supposedly "futuristic" record which would be coming out from that lineup more than the fact that they'd be playing old material. 

45 minutes ago, mattromero said:

what bullying rumours?

That Tommy Stinson and Del James relentlessly picked on Buckethead and did not like him. Also, Robin apparently was not keen on Buckethead being in the band (although they were apparently cordial enough to each other). Ultimately, Buckethead was not a good fit for a "big band" like Guns N' Roses. He likes to do things his own way and be in control of all elements (Brain has mentioned this a few times). If anything, I think it's lucky we got as much recorded output from him as we did. 

Ron said that he believes part of the reason he started off on the wrong foot with GN'R was because he inherited Buckethead's role in the band, and neither Richard, Robin, or Tommy wanted a third guitarist. 

I do agree with Richard though. Buckethead was able to lay back and let Robin and Richard do the heavy lifting, thus making Bucket's contributions even more pronounced. I loved Ron as a guitarist (and I actually love most of his contributions to Chinese Democracy), but he did have a tendency to "overplay" at certain times (i.e., doing a shred solo over a song like "14 Years"). 

Like a lot of people, it was the House of Blues 2001 show for years, and then that got crossed off the list. 

Honestly, at this point, I would settle for a professionally shot show anytime from 1988-2010 to get released in some capacity. Obviously, it would be amazing if we got one of the "historic" long shows, but anything would be cool. 

2001/2002 Axl remains fascinating to watch. He has that old Axl "fuck you" fire, but at the same time you can tell he feels very insecure about his legacy and the acceptance of the new band. As other pointed out, GN'R was written off as something as a flash in the pan at that point in time. Duff, Slash, Matt, and Steven all kept relatively low profiles and their popular songs from Appetite for Destruction and the Use Your Illusion albums had not quite reached the "classic rock" status they hold today. The little we did hear about Axl was what a dictator he was and how he threw the band's legacy away. Obviously, the crowds at these shows were substantially smaller than the 1990s, but they still drew a respectable crowd for a band that had not toured in seven years and did not have any classic members. I'm sure Axl feared there would be shows that would have to be cancelled due to low attendance. In the 2001 HOB show, you can see him almost start crying at one point when the crowd chants his name. Apparently at the 2001 Rio show, he was in literal disbelief at how big the crowd was. Gilby mentioned that when he showed up and jammed at that club in 2000, Axl was apparently truly surprised at how much attention the even got. 

After the bumpy start with the riot at the Vancouver show, you could see him slowly gain confidence as the tour went on. At the Madison Square Garden show, he actually seemed to have some of that "2006 Axl" energy, but then the plug got pulled for reasons that, despite Axl's explanation years later, still are not entirely clear. 

In regards to the timeline to the reunion, this is how I've always seen it played out (from various interview, forums, etc). 

-Big thaw in 2014 when Slash gave reasonable demands in regards to the Appetite for Democracy concert movie. Apparently this was when the "thaw" in Axl and Slash's relationship began, and it seemed like there was a future where the two of them could at least move forward in unison on business decisions. My educated guess would be this was where Bumblefoot's statements about reunion rumors starting during his time in the band came from (even if they were more scuttlebutt than actual truth). 

-Regular communications between the two "camps" started in late 2014/early 2015. At this point, Axl was apparently still working towards releasing new music with the current lineup of GN'R and had done work in the studio, but the possibility of Slash joining for a song or showing up at shows (like Izzy) seemed much greater. 

-DJ quite the band in, if I remember correctly, July 2015 which apparently caught Axl completely off guard. I would imagine this was when things started moving towards a "reunion" angle. As someone else pointed out above, I think Axl mentioned reaching out to Slash and having dinner with him in fall 2015. 

Per certain wrestlers who used to be heavily involved in the community, Duff and Slash both pushed for Matt to re-join multiple times during initial negotiations. Their reasoning (reasonably enough) was they had the musical relationship with Matt and knew he could play the songs with them. After a few times asking, Axl apparently told them he was not going to change his mind on Frank, and to move on. Like someone else said, I do not think Matt lied about Duff's statements about needing to rehearse because Matt was not a member, but I do think this could have just as likely been a cushion to Matt's ego as a genuine sentiment.  

Negotiations and plans in Guns n' Roses, even during a relatively stable period in the band's history (like 2016 onwards), seem to occur rapidly at the eleventh hour. I would not be surprised if lineup discussions and considerations were happening until the last minute. 

26 minutes ago, ZoSoRose said:

I am a huge fan of Robin, Bumble, and Bucket

We "punish" him because he sucks

He was the only guitarist I have seen that seemed to get worse as him time in the band progressed. In 2009/2010, there was still a lot of work to do, but it felt like he was on the way to getting where he needed to be (I also cut him some slack because Robin had some pretty rough nights in 2001/2002). That being said, when they came back in 2011, it seemed like his guitar playing took a backseat to his showboating antics. 

He's not a bad guitarist by any means, but has no "wow" factor that someone like Slash, Robin, or Buckethead did. Honestly, if Richard had gotten to play full lead (like he does now) and DJ got a role similar to Richard's in the 2002-2014 lineups (mainly rhythm guitar with a few big guitar "moments" sprinkled in throughout the show), people would probably view him a lot more positively. As it was, he took off way to big a bite trying to play lead in a band with Bumblefoot and Fortus. 

I'm all for bands and musicians trying different things, but the song DJ released under the "ASHBA" moniker really shows what he does; just adopts whatever style he thinks will get him the most attention: that shred album he released in the 1990s, mid-2000s bro hard rock with Sixx A.M., attempting to play GN'R material to cash in on nostalgia, or dance music. It does not seem like he particularly identifies with any of them (I would imagine his "truest" style would be closest to Motley Crue). 

As the last Guns n' Roses release for about 6 years (and for the general public 14 years), I can understand why someone would see it as a let-down. As a toss off track for a movie soundtrack, it works fine to me. Axl sounds spirited and (unpopular opinion) I actually like the guitar "call and response" between Slash and Paul Tobias. That being said, it's not a track I actively seek out. I only heard/hear it when I used to listen to the Greatest Hits album, or when it pops up on Pandora. 

On 8/14/2020 at 11:05 PM, The Holographic Universe said:

I believe because of the videos during UYI a lot of people associate Gilby as an original member. 
 

 

 

 

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That's what I always found when I talk to people who remember GN'R from the 1990s, but didn't know a whole lot about the band. He appeared in almost all of the Use Your Illusion videos, was in a majority of press and photos from the era, and played on their most well-known professionally released show (the Tokyo shows). I do not pay a whole lot of attention to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but it did seem strange to me that they did not include a member who was in the band during the majority of the band's most famous period. Even going off the "we only induct people who play on records" standard, he played on one of their albums. Admittedly, it was a covers album, but it was still a multi-platinum album. 

He was (and still seems) like a genuinely cool dude, and saved the band's ass on a moment's notice after Izzy left the band. In all honesty, I suppose it's entirely possible more people saw the band with Gilby than Izzy.

It would have been interesting to see how the guitar chemistry would have evolved had he stayed in the band. Gilby is a much "tighter" guitar player than Izzy when it comes to rhythm and close to Slash's level when it comes to lead (maybe even as good on a technical level. Slash just has such an immediately recognizable tone). Izzy's biggest contribution to the band was songwriting, but also brought a very loose and sleazy style rhythm guitar. Matt was spot on in his book when he said the "classic" Guns N' Rose sound came from Izzy's songs and looseness on guitar combined with Slash and Duff's more bombastic playing. I wonder if Gilby would have tried to continue that vibe, or if it would have become a situation like Slash and Richard where both got their big moments in songs and in concert. 

IIRC, Frank specifically said he had nothing to do with the AfD box set or "Shadow of Your Love" on the Appetite for Distortion podcast (I remember being surprised he answers the question so honestly). Maybe he's just goofing around here. @Gambit83 Am I remembering correctly? 

Actually, Matt discussed this a little bit in his book. Slash came and tried to jam with the band, and the whole group had a big "talk it out session" which was supposed to be about the direction of the band. Apparently, Axl and Slash couldn't meet eye-to-eye on anything, and it ended up digressing into Axl bringing up old memories of how Slash and Duff wronged him in 1983-1986/87. Matt said, after a few hours, Slash got out of his chair and just left the building. It was the last time all of them were in a room together. 

17 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

There is this very short interview in Rio:

US: Robin, are you going to participate in the Guns American tour?
 
Robin Finck: Well, I don't know yet, we just got together to do this show.
 
US: Does Nine Inch Nails plan to come to Brazil one day?
 
Finck: Our tour is over now, so I don't know. I think so.
 
US:  Will you participate in the recording of the new Nine Inch Nails album?
 
Finck: I don't know.

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4739-2001-01-14-ultimo-segundo-brazil-interviews-with-robin-brain-and-chris-pitman

He sounded uncertain about his status - or maybe I over-interpret it and he just didn't want to talk.

Original interview (in case there is a mistake in the translation):

https://web.archive.org/web/20010822125304/http:/www.ig.com.br:80/home/editorial/stories/editorial_body/0,1205,430313,00.html

It sounds like he was just saying the band's touring schedule was uncertain beyond playing the Rock in Rio date. It does not sound like it was meant to be his status in the band was in question.

The Azoff speculation, for those who have asked, started from a certain overweight wrestler (so take it for what you will). The wrestler claimed Azoff basically tried to "freeze" Tommy and Robin out of the band in 2007/2008 by blocking any of their communications to Axl. His hope was that it would put Axl in a spot where he felt he had to go back to Slash and Duff, and Azoff would be responsible for another mega-reunion. Azoff had no idea Axl would essentially disband and go into hiding once the record came out in late 2008. When Robin left, it was apparently not because of anger to Axl directly, but more "I've been in the band ten years, I shouldn't have to put up with this shit." If the wrestlers list of documents are to be believed, Robin and Axl were still in touch after Robin re-joined NIN, as I think there was some sort of email correspondence between the two discussing the leaked tracks in 2008. 

Whatever happened, it seems to be in the past since Robin played with the band in 2012. Also, in the one interview he did back in 2013 or 2014 (the only interview with him where his tenure in Guns N' Roses is mentioned in more than passing), he seemed to reflect fondly on his time in the band and his contributions to Chinese Democracy. 

I'd say this is a rock bottom, but we have a thread discussing Steven Adler's sexuality, so I guess this would just a close contender. 

I have a feeling Matt's book will be the last Gn'R related news for the rest of 2020. 

We'll call this my unpopular Guns N' Roses opinion. 

I have never, ever, understood any love "One in a Million" gets. Outside of the infamous offensive lyrics (which sound like a teenager trying to be edgy), I would call it, at best, a "C-tier" Guns N' Roses song. Honestly, if not for the attention it got, I doubt any of us would be talking about it. 

2 hours ago, Gambit83 said:

Roberta is sweet. As stated in the interview, I spoke about myself specifically to prove a point, be an example for others. To represent mutual feelings with the listeners toward race. What would be more effective? Speaking in generalities or personal feelings?

First off my apologies. That came out blunter/snarkier than I meant it to. I love your podcast, listen to every episode, and think you do the GN'R community proud. I totally understand wanting to bring your personal feelings and experiences into the mix, but I felt that - given the current circumstances - Roberta really wanted to talk about the black experience unhindered. It felt like, on occasion, you were too quick to jump in with comparing things to being handicapped and/or Jewish (and I get that you qualified this by saying you understood those are different than the black experience), when Roberta really just wanted to talk uninterrupted. 

I get it man. My dad was Jewish (proud "half-Jew") so I can understand that easiness to lapse into self-deprecating "I'm a jew" humor, but there are times and places for it. 

Glad to hear from Roberta again. She seems so sweet. The interview got really good when she was able to take control back from Brando talking about himself nonstop. 

3 hours ago, WillBailey said:

You're right! The creepy/gross stuff overshadows some rare interesting parts actually about music and the band. Would love to hear Axl's version of that discussion... Matt's version seems a bit random/cliché about Axl (rambling on mid 80s stories) but who knows!

I can definitely imagine the discussion about synths though. I wonder what Slash truly thinks about Melissa's addition to the band...

To Matt's credit, Izzy told a very similar story in an interview from 2001.

"He says his last face-to-face contact with Axl was six years ago. “I’d moved back out to LA. I bought this old Norton Commando 850. and was riding around one day and I thought, ‘Fuck it, I’ll go by his house. Bastard, he lives up in the hills, he’s got a big house, I’ll go and see what he’s doing’, you know? “And I go up and he’s got security gates, cameras, walls, all this shit, you know. So I’m ringing the buzzer, and eventually somebody comes and takes me up and there he is. He’s like, ‘Hey, man! Glad to see you!’ Gives me a big hug and shows me round his house. It was great. “Then, I don’t know, probably a month later, one night he calls me [and] we got into the issue of me leaving Guns N’ Roses. I told him how it was on my side. Told him exactly how I felt about it and why I left. And man, that’s the last time I’ve talked to the guy! “But, I mean, he had a fucking notepad. I could hear him [turning the pages] going, ‘Well, ah, you said in 1982. blah blah blah…’ And I’m like, what the fuck - 1982. He was bringing up a lot of really weird old shit. I’m like, ‘Whatever, man’. But that’s the last time I talked to him."

38 minutes ago, G O A T said:

Horrible! I was actually expecting it to sound better but this is totally soulless in every possible way.

This. I actually enjoyed the "Shakin'" cover, but this stripped every ounce of soul and charm out of the original Stones songs.