themadcaplaughs

Whole thing was fairly irrelevant, but still a nice(ish) gesture. He made a little quip about liking a poster at MyGNR, and then followed up when that poster requested Fernando stop by here. He obviously did not say anything of major importance, but certainly did not have to drop the 2-4 months timeline either; which will almost certainly be used against him when nothing happens by the end of the year.

Maybe Dre needs Axl to come in and add some CD-style production.

Mystery solved. Dre and Axl have been negotiating over Pittman to come in and add some sub-bass to Detox. Record cannot be completed until it has Pittman's magical sub-bass

Very cool!

They both pale in comparison to Chris Mothergoose Titman

I was getting worried that no mention of Chris had been made.

I'd love to hear Dizzy's story about talking to that Indian fan again.

This actually is a good segue-way to some questions I myself had:

Was Axl Rose, by 1991, more of a liability to Guns than an asset?

On one hand, whether you like the song and video and what they represent or not, NR did send GN'R soaring to a whole new level of popularity. You have Axl's larger than life personality which even as late as 2006 drew the mainstream in, and always kept people guessing. Axl is and has always been one of those people who even during their lifetimes seem more than your average person; they have a mystique, an aura - like Jim Morrison. Axl's personality is a big part of why Guns became big in the first place - You could argue his charisma is, in part, what set Guns apart from Motley Crue or Great White - He was a lot more interesting as a person than Vince Neil or Jack Russell, and a lot more talented lyrically. He was also a lot more 'real' in his lyricism than either - this was a guy speaking from genuine experience and with genuine issues; a genuine 'badass' who had really done time in jail and didn't just talk the talk. Because of him we have songs like Estranged, November Rain and Breakdown. It's because of him that Welcome to the Jungle has the catchy lyrics it has. He spoke to perhaps not all of Gen X - but to a certain segment of the younger Boomers and Gen X.

On the other hand...You have from 1991 to 1994 the needless late starts, sometimes with the show starting 2-3 hours after the opening act had left, leaving the fans waiting in total 4, 5 hours just to see the band. The riots. The rants. The childish tracks like Shotgun Blues and Get in the Ring and Back Off Bitch. The really fucking stupid stage outfits that make almost every UYI show terribly cheesy to watch. The bizarre vocal overdubs and weird sound effects all over the UYIs (IE the bubble sounds on Garden of Eden, all his corny vocal overdubs). Dizzy Reed. The Vegas style back-up band in 1992. The wife-beating allegations.

Stopping shows in the middle of a song to call out a fan, even if the fan was in the wrong. Stopping songs right in the middle and threatening to leave, killing the momentum of the show and probably any fun the band was having, and probably making the audience nervous. The 'Trilogy' - mainly the Estranged video as the worst offender. The self-absorbed, Hollywood, prima donna horseshit - affecting a Martyr/Jesus look (with the beard in 1992), the self-indulgent photo shoots while refusing to take group shots with the band after 1991, the horrid and cringeworthy short shorts, chest protector and other very bizarre clothes he wore on stage, performing with Elton John and a 120 piece orchestra while Nirvana ripped up the stage with Lithium, the past-lives regression therapy nonsense that he began promoting to the media in 1992....

Taking it back a little further, Axl's inclusion of the N word and slurs at gays and immigrants, made GN'R forever appear like the band of the KKK and of dumb jocks. That alone made Guns as a whole ripe for crucifixion as cultural dinosaurs - as nothing more than relics of the long ago '70s rather than a band for now (the 1990s) by the likes of Cobain etc. Axl provided the media and his enemies with plenty of ammunition for the assassination of both his character, his reputation, and the reputation of Guns N' Roses as a whole, which by association tarred (at the time - the '90s) the other band members.

All of these factors served to make GN'R as a whole - and not simply Axl himself - seem dated well before what should've been their expiration date. The 1990s should have been their prime, their peak - and in some ways, '91-93 was their peak. But by 1993, due to all the stuff I outlined above, Guns, even if they were still very much popular, were greatly disliked and viewed as something of a cool joke. Banal. Vulgar, and not in a fun way - lewd. A turn off. The Steven Seagal of Hard Rock. Old fashioned, retro, and more like a parody of a rock band than a group to be taken seriously. A real life Spinal Tap.

Axl's pomposity, and his divisive nature, is what made GN'R a popular target of the Grunge acts. Kurt Cobain never really attacked GN'R as a whole - He attacked Axl using the name "GN'R" IE "GN'R are a band of sexist, racist jerks", as Axl in the public eye represented GN'R. Axl is what made bands like Soundgarden and Metallica, who might've gotten along with the rest of Guns, despise GN'R. Axl is the one who caused the band to barely break even on the massively popular UYI tour because of his indulgent theme parties.

If you read Duff's book, while an addict ultimately has no one else to blame for their addiction but themselves, Duff makes it clear that the band drank/drugged in excess to cope with the long waits and the fear of rioting and a repeat of St. Louis or worse. "Axl's late? Let's have another vodka/snort of coke." Axl made everything that was supposed to be fun be more of a dread for the band. Axl, at least from Duff's POV, had this habit of turning every grand victory or what should've been a huge moment, into either a neutral sort of meh or a defeat. Izzy stopped wanting to deal with Guns day to day after Chicago - and Chicago was Axl's whole idea, and then he didn't even bother to show up for a month. Axl broke the band's sense of togetherness/gang mentality permanently when he called them out publicly for drugs.

While it can be argued that the public probably wouldn't have been nearly as interested in GN'R if it weren't for Axl - he was the unpredictable element that made GN'R a dangerous, rebellious, explosive element - "The Most Dangerous Band in the World", it can also be argued that if Axl had been fired in say...1991? 1990? The band might've come out of the 1990s both together and with a much better reputation.

I mean, Axl says Slash was the one holding GN'R back from musically progressing. That Slash didn't want to do the 'hard work' of moving GN'R forward or even pushing himself or challenging himself musically as a guitarist. And yet Slash is the guy who from all accounts brought Coma in as a mostly complete vehicle - a ten minute long progressive metal song with multiple changes. Slash is the guy who is largely responsible for Locomotive, another progressive rock number with a funk groove - something quite unique. Slash, Duff and Izzy, without Axl being around, worked out Locomotive, Bad Apples, Civil War, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Damn Me, Dust N' Bones and The Garden musically around 1989.

It can be argued that it was Axl's mental issues along with his perfectionism and also intermittent writer's block that kept the UYIs from being released in 1989, or 1990. That the band without him might not have released two albums, which has left the legacy of the albums in doubt due to the amount of filler equaling the number of great tracks.

The UYI songs, if we take them as instrumentals, if they were mixed rawer, would've been utterly contemporary in 1991, cutting edge. Not Nirvana, but utterly fitting with what was huge in the early/mid 90s. Pretty Tied Up and Locomotive musically sound like something Pearl Jam would've put out on Ten. It's Axl's lyrics that turn them into either childish misogynistic pieces or self-indulgent head trips. It's Axl's vocal effects and overdubs and the addition of Dizzy Reed that rip from the songs that raw power they could've had. It's the mixing - which I no doubt Axl oversaw or had a heavy hand in - which leaves the actual recordings of the UYI recordings sounding polished, sterile, with Matt's drums mixed so flat and Duff's bass given that dated early 90s slap.

I know myself, that Axl's vocals and the production, for me is what drags down the UYIs. I love the UYIs in spite of Axl's vocal performances and stupid noises - not because of them. On some tracks he vocally shines and others he is too high in the mix and is a pain to listen to, and all the songs are mixed horribly, leaving Matt who is a great drummer to sound like a drum machine, and Slash's guitar to sound overly polished and lacking in balls.

So, my question to you is, might GN'R have been better off without Axl after the UYIs?

Axl said openly Slash should've left after Lies. But maybe it should be the other way around - But then again, maybe without Axl, the band would've faded rapidly into obscurity and irrelevance as The Doors did without Jim Morrison, and maybe it was Axl's antics and volatile nature and vision that kept them unique in 1991 - After all, it cannot be denied that November Rain, Axl's vision captured in a single song, gave GN'R a second wind - chart wise and cultural relevance wise, it's their biggest hit only after SCOM - no other song of theirs was as big a hit as those two, and their creation was led by Axl - NR being his direct product, and SCOM being his seeing something potentially big where Slash saw just a worthless, stupid circus sounding guitar riff.

It can be argued, too, that left to their own devices, the band might NOT have pushed themselves to create stuff like Locomotive to "please" Axl or meet his expectations for the next album, and that Slash, Duff etc might have instead been content to create an AFD II - pleasing to the fans, but making GN'R no different than Crue in the long run. I have no doubt that Slash, Duff circa 1991 would've had no problem with pumping out an album of Paradise City style tracks.

It can be argued that, while humiliating, Axl's public call-out of the band on the issue of drugs might've saved their lives and forced at least short-term sobriety. It can be argued (from an objective standpoint putting aside any personal dislike of Dizzy as a person or musician) that the addition of Dizzy Reed, objectively, was an attempt to introduce a new element into their music rather than be AC/DC. It can be argued that the addition of the Big Band in 1992 was an attempt to give the audience a larger and thus more thrilling show, following the model he had seen on the Stones 1989 tour.

So, my question to you is,

What about Axl? Was he more a hindrance to Guns N' Roses after say, 1988, or a help? Should he have been sacked - or would the band have died (figuratively and possibly literally) without him? What should we think of Axl?

Might GN'R have appeared much less of a joke without his presence in the 1990s?

Might the UYIs have been better albums without Axl's lyrics in some places, and without his effects?

Great post man. You articulated many things much better than I ever could have.

Amazing how down-to-Earth and un-"branded" DJ looks here. I watch some of these 2009 early 2010 videos and can, for brief glimpses, see why Axl might have wanted him to join the band.

Die hards want music we always do. But the label will gauge how much they will sell and have plans and schemes. Let's hold off until...

Whether Axl is against leaks is debateable. He's never came out directly and said that or admitted its effects. I think the label might be more bothered. I think Axl said he was fine with the leaks and even said Better leak convinced him to tour. No source, sorry.

From Axl's mouth directly - do not know if you can address his view on leaks much more clearly

Basically for us it's devastating across the board. And when u have such a majority openly justifying their actions and throwing out nonsense such as it's not actually stealing as the original is still with whomever it's unbelievably insane.

It exists because of the greed of the record industry, the greed of large scale pirating, the ease and common nature now of the act itself and personal motivations such as popularity among certain groups, possible momentary media recognition etc.

And it's too rampant and widespread. It's simply too huge a mess for the courts to deal with and in that with those #'s and the expense and manpower involved necessary at this time to curtail it... obviously there are more serious crimes for society to focus on.

Besides, fuck musicians right? If they didn't make enough already then they probably suck anyway rt? "I ain't cryin' for no rich dude." Whatever.

And who knows? What are our #'s on the torrent sites for this album? I don't know. So I don't know how or if it's affected us in terms of sales this time around. Maybe not but w/the economy and the core of our market I'd think there's a possibility it has had a negative effect. Anyone?

... and if Interscope hadn't acted against Axl's orders, he would probably be sitting on Chinese Democracy today, twiddling with overdubs. ''Faulty Booklet'' my arse - he spotted room for another Pitman fart and wanted to recall the thing.

This is a fact which most people don't realize: Axl did NOT want ChiDem to be released. It was released against his will, mostly through legal strongarming.

Now that GNR is widely considered a joke and there clearly is no market for a DJ-lead wheedly-whee Pitman-farting "50 year old men doing hip hop electronica with a Rolling Stones feel while playing everything through a Les Paul neck pickup into a Marshall to simulate Slash's tone from 25 years ago", there is no financial incentive for backers to release Axl's latest mess.

So, with no one strongarming Axl into releasing music, do any of you honestly believe he'll release music of his own volition?

Not to mention that he did not want the Appetite for Democracy DVD out either.

Pitman must have thought his future in Guns N' Roses was a bright one.

It has always made me happy that the idea of Paul Tobias living in the vault has become a MyGNR running joke.

And I'm willing to bet that Axl, just like each and every one of us back then, thought "What the fuck is that shit" when DJ played his first out of tune TIL solo in Taipei.

It was one of the shows in 2009, possibly the first one, where DJ butchers it so bad you can literally see Axl laughing as he walks back on stage to start singing.

Those first few gigs, DJ seemed to attempt to play the solo the way Finck played it on the record, but by Ashba's own admission he could not figured it out and rewrote it.

Someone does to DJ what I've wanted to do since 2009.

Do people not like the Eagles because of that line in The Big Lebowski? lol

And...Tom Petty kicks ass. Free Fallin' isn't my favorite song of his, but I can't see how that was a bad thing.

No...people do not like The Eagles because their music is the worst kind of mindless fluff and their songs are massively overplayed.

Wasted:

Have you ever considered taking a break from GN'R albums for a while. It seems like it is about your only real point of reference to anything, and I would argue you have given these songs MUCH more thought than Axl has (and that's saying something).

Also, lol at saying anything off Chinese Democracy is ANYTHING like "One in a Million."

About what you'd expect on classic rock radio

-Welcome to the Jungle

-Sweet Child O' Mine

-Paradise City

-November Rain

-Live and Let Die

-Patience

-Knockin' on Heaven's Door

-You Could Be Mine (very occasionally)

"Chinese Democracy" and "Better" back when the album was still new (late 2008/early 2009) but not at all after that.

Pittman is a legend. None of y'all forget that.

Bring back Brian fuckin' Carroll

Not a snowball's chance in hell I'm afraid.

There's the happy medium though, which is leave all the parts he recorded alone...if it's not too late already.

That goes for Finck and everybody else too, nothing against Frank or Ron but neither of them belonged on CD and their additions only made things worse.

They were just doing what they were told, I can't really blame them for it.

As for Ashba, my vote goes toward keeping him away from GNR full stop, he doesnt belong.

I could take a few of the parts Ron brought. The stuff he played on the title track was cool, and his solo on "Shackler's Revenge" fit pretty well, but the rest of the fart and burp noises he made with the fretless guitar and the "Catcher in the Rye" solo were awful.

Tobias did the first Vegas show (01/01/2001), Rock in Rio, and the two shows at the end of 2001 (also in Vegas).

Someone a few years ago tracked down Paul and found he works in investments/finances. I think it may have been that dude that runs the GNRNews twitter. He said Paul works in finances and investment now, but still receives Christmas gifts from Axl every year. Also, I remember during the chats, Axl mentioned Paul helped get the album credits together.

I would have to guess that they are still on relatively good terms.

I am gatmog2007 over at GNR Truth and posted the recap of the talk I had. I do wish to clarify that the Geffen executive made a very clear disclaimer that, regarding the live album, he was very much operating off of memory. I personally still feel that there is redubbing on Live Era.

If anyone has any additional questions, feel free to PM me.

I have always maintained that DJ has talent on the guitar, and I would even qualify him as a "very good" guitar player. A band like Guns N' Roses, however, requires something more than a "very good" guitarist. It requires an exceptional guitarist with a unique sound and identity. DJ just does not offer that.

In DJ's defense, I will wholeheartedly agree that my opinion could be very different if we actually had music DJ had a hand in writing and recording. I am not a fan of Beautiful Creatures of Sixx A.M. but I can definitely understand his guitar playing sounds better because he is playing to his own strengths rather than Slash's or Robin Finck's. Until we hear new Guns n' Roses songs with DJ playing, all we have to judge him by is how he plays the songs released by Guns N' Roses before he joined the band; and for the most part he does an extremely underwhelming job.

In all honesty, it all ended for the general public with the 2002 VMA performance. At this point, most people will tolerate the current Guns N' Roses lineup to see Axl playing classics, but it's really only a handful of people that truly care about any new music.