themadcaplaughs

Same old shit different day re: Ron's answers. Mildly interesting hearing about his recording for Chinese Democracy. I also agree with him completely that the whole "era" should be documented in a box set of some sort (i.e. SMILE by Brian Wilson or the eventual Teargarden box set by Smashing Pumpkins).

Ashba. He's exactly the opposite of what I want GNR to be.

This.

This is farcical.

Soon is the word.

If I'm correct, doesn't Elton John now have some six degrees of separation from Slash that most think would prevent Axl from talking to Elton? Am I thinking of someone else?

I do not think anyonye would turn down the opportunity to see the orginal Smashing Pumpkins, or at least the 2000 lineup. As others have pointed out, however, the main driving force was Billy Corgan. D'arcy and James had an impact on the songs to a small extent (particularly on everything from 1995 on) and of course Jimmy was one of the best drummers of the last 20 years, but ultiamtely Corgan was the driving force.

So an ex-wife of a minimally important keyboard player of a band is writing a book?

Can't be much worse than Steven Adler's mother's book I guess...

Did Adler's mom's book ever actually come out?

It would be interesting, but I would be down for it if and only if one of the guitar spots is cut (preferably DJ or Bumblefoot).

Sometimes I think MSL's ultimate cupcake act was creating an environment were threads like this exist.

Without reading anything but the first post...

I think that is just trying to make excuses for the fact that it is not a perfect record despite 18 years and $14 million. Quite simply, the record sat on the shelf for more than a year in its completed state; this means it was not an issue of the label trying to slap together a track list weeks before the record hit shelves. For better or worse, this was the record Axl wanted out (at least musically).

Also other thoughts...

-The band played "Riad n' the Bedouins" in 2001 and 2002. Furthermore, Axl discusses the song in the alternate liner notes we've seen. This leads me to believe this song has been in the running since the early 2000s.

-At the end of the day, I just think it had to do with the fact that the 1998-2002 and the 2006-2007 bands were very different. With the 2001/2002 lineup, it seemed very much like Axl was trying to push the envelope of what GN'R sounded like. In 2006, on the other hand, it seemed the band had been reeled in to more of a traditional "rock band" (a trend that went even further in 2009 with DJ Ashba being hired).

-Because of this, my guess for the "inconsistency" would just be the fact that the album is a mix of songs from 1998-2002 (which were then dressed up and tinkered with over the years) and songs that came out of later sessions (like "Shackler's Revenge," "Sorry," etc.)

I've always found it slightly funny that people actually think there is some kind of actual walk in "vault" or place like the Library of Congress exclusively containing Guns N' Roses stuff. As someone else brought up, I'm sure all the stuff is on DAT Tapes, CDs, tape, and computer files in thousands of different places. I'd ewven be willing to bet things like the footage from the Use Your Illusion tour documentary is in a bunch of different hands.

I will reserve true excitement for when a new song (or two or three) is played, but I will admit it was nice to have something announced on the major forums and then actually happen less than a week later.

For the people actually sounding desperate and afraid that Bumblefoot might leave. Think about this, if that ever happends...(only if it happens). GNR has replaced their biggest, baddest and most successful guitar player ever (Slash) and there was life after it.

Not really...

This. When I tell people I went to a GnR concert, half the time I get "Is Slash still in the band?", not "Ron 'Bumblefoot' Thal fucken rocks!!'. Nothing against Ron, but Slash and Guns N' Roses is and forever will be synonymous with eachother, much like Axl and Guns N' Roses are synonymous.

People miss Slash because he was there when the band was at its most successful level. Not to take anything away from Slash (He was definitely the best Guitar Player GNR ever had, both creatively and as far as talent is concerned) but If CC Deville was there from the beggining, people would miss him, if Zack Wylde was there while the band got big, they would miss him too, if Ashba or Bumblefoot were there when the band got big, and weren't in the band anymore, people would miss him too...that doesn't mean you can't replace them! History has shown that GNR can replace anybody besides the singer and still be successful. And there's even people that prefer the post Slash guitar players (buckethead, Robin for example) then Slash himself (me not being one of those people).

Hey! Paul Di Anno made 2 albums with Iron Maiden, everyone misses him... but the guy that is there now, made about 20 albums after and was more successful than Paul ever was...

If you're trying to copy MSL's posting style, please get better at doing so.

So we're now happy Guns N' Roses is a Vegas act? This board confuses me.

I like Fortus but I always thought that Beautiful duet was cringeworthy. I remember they played it in Dublin and people started laughing.

Agreed. When I first read a set list in 2006 and "Beautiful" on there I almost did a spit take. When I finally heard it, is was even worse than I imagined. Although, I will agree with Estranged Reality that anything is better than Matt's drum solo.

First off, to the original poster, you might be better not starting off a post that is COMPLETELY subjective with the word, "objectively." It pretty much made me tune out the rest of your argument. Also, it's a friggin' rock and roll record. There are a lot of people here who like it, it sold a decent amount of copies, it is still talked about years down the road, that's success enough for me. Anyone who bitches about this in 2013 is just mad that the record did not achieve the heights of Use Your Illusion I and II. If you like it, that is really all that matters.

That being said, there are plenty of things that kept it from being an event....

-To the average fan, it is not Guns N' Roses. Before people like MSL come in saying, "Guns N' Roses is Guns N' Roses, it's a fact not an opinion," I agree. But the truth is, most people don't feel the same way regardless of what's factually correct. As most know, the average fan sees Guns N' Roses, at its core, as being a minimum of Axl and Slash (even if the truth is not that simple). Without any contribution from Slash, most people were going to ignore it. Hell, even if Duff or Izzy had played on one or two songs, it probably would have gotten some more attention.

-Although it has gotten better in recent years, the press really wanted to massacre Axl. Not to say it wasn't deserved sometimes. The VMA debacle, the cancellation of the 2002 tour, Axl getting pissy and walking off stage at Donnington, fights with Tommy Hilfiger, and getting arrested for biting security guards painted Axl in a light that made people think, "hey, maybe there's a reason none of the old band wants to work with him."

-Constant delays and money. I know there was definitely a feeling of, "nothing in this world could be worth the $14 million that was poured into one record."

-Ultimately, the music. I love Chinese Democracy, but the average fan expects a certain dynamic from Guns N' Roses (two guitars, melodic solos, etc.) and Axl specifically and openly messed with that formula for Chinese Democracy. When a band does that, there are always going to be outspoken critics. Bands like Smashing Pumpkins, Metallica, and Radiohead have all released albums that went out of their way to change the formulas of their respective bands, and each was met with the same reaction as Chinese Democracy. They got positive critical reception and developed a small but supportive fan base, but were ultimately lost of the casual record buyer.

Starting to move my needle from "jaded" to "interested." We've heard rumors of big news before though...

There really is no endgame, and that's the way it typically is with MSL. I am registered on his forum and post from time to time, but really do feel there is something wrong with they guy. I do not know if he has some kind of mental disorder (maybe Asperger's) but it is definitely not trolling. Personally, I find him to be a threat to the band.

Anyway, he just does this because he thinks it somehow makes him seem more special that he can post incomplete court documents.

He needs to update his picture he plasters all over everything of him hanging with MSL.

The Tension Tour is one of the most amazing things i ever saw. Mindblowing.

But... Every time i see Finck on NIN i see an unhappy Finck for the most part.

You want a real dictator? ask for Trent Reznor.

That's funny. Robin's killed it when I saw him with Guns N' Roses and NIN, but I'd say he seemed more "into it" with Nine Inch Nails. The fact that he has (twice) abandoned GN'R for NIN leads me to believe there is something more attractive about playing with Trent than Axl.

If Chinese Democracy was also a success and was on the Billboard than exactly why should Team Brazil take notes? You're implying that NIN is a superior band than Guns with that comment.

When in reality Guns N' Roses are a much more successful band.

I like you Andre, but posting in MSL's style really does not suit you well.

Is it even up for debate that NIN is by far a better live experience than GNR? And post a good quality video, geez.

Sorry to say this but nobody gives a fuck about NIN.

Nor does anyone give a fuck about you.

If what Bumblefoot says about Axl feeling betrayed by him if he played with Slash is true, DJ better make sure Axl never see's this picture.

I would imagine a new album, the Blu-Ray release, and tour plans have all been thrown under the bus while Team Brazil tries to make sure this picture is kept under wraps.

Losing a parent is tough, especially when it involves Alzheimer's. My condolences to Ron and his family. I hope their days get better.

I'm not sold at all for the all the reasons already mentionned, but even if it was legit, even if Slash and Duff lied about this (which I doubt) nothing's gonna change the fact that GNR have become shit since those two quit the band, and that's what tragic. The drama is for internet nerds.

Although I do not agree about the band being shit, I will agree with your general point-of-view. Raking up this kind of stuff is not going to make people accept the current lineup of Guns N' Roses if they already do not like it, it's not going to change the facts to the average fan that Slash is not in the band and there does not seem to be a reunion in the cards, and even if it does prove Axl has been telling the truth the whole time it will not change the general perception of Axl that has come from...

-Cancelling a tour in 2001 and claiming he was not aware of it

-Being (even if indirectly) responsible for a tour ending in 2002

-Constant delays of Chinese Democracy without any updates on the project.

-Almost no public appearances or interviews for more than one year following the album's eventual release

-Disastrous performances in Rock In Rio in 2011 and the Bridge School Benefit in 2012.

-Declining the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

Like I said, that is not me trying to knock Axl. I like Guns N' Roses in all its incarnations. I'm just saying that unveiling this document more than twenty years after it was signed is not going to change the perception of Axl as hot-headed, temperamental, difficult, etc.

Team Brazil is working to get Rockfuel what they need the most: information.

Guys, niceguy knows a guy who knows a guy who knew Bumblefoot. NICEGUY HAS SPOKEN!