RONIN

Is this related to the track from the village leaks? From what I recall, it was an instrumental with orchestra. Almost sounded like film score...

Anyone know if Frank is drumming on the song or is it Brain?

7 hours ago, Naupis said:

Frankly I am disappointed in all of them for releasing this series of half ass songs under the guise of being new "real" GNR songs when the quality level is no where near what people would have expected and hoped for getting Axl/Slash on a song together again.

The idea that they are content to put the GNR brand name on left over B-sides from the CD Sessions as their big post reunion releases frankly is kind of embarrassing compared to the level of quality people would expect who didn't know the whole back story about why these songs even exist.

Slash has no interest quite clearly in stuff that's been sitting around for 2 decades and clearly is just going along to get along. That's actually in character for him.

Axl is the one I am dumbfounded is OK with being as creatively backrupt as he is right now while he just milks the back catalog with endless tours. He always held himself out as being above that type of approach. That he has essentially spent 25 years now with nothing to say creatively in terms of new music (even the new releases are all old) is about the last thing I would have ever expected if you had asked me in 1995 what his career arc would look like.

We haven't had new music from Axl and Slash in 30 years and yet they are OK releasing stuff like Hard Skool, Silkworms and Perhaps like those in any way stand up to the level of quality people were so desperately hoping would come from a reunion.

The whole thing just makes me sad from the piece meal approach to the going through the motions. 

There was a time they were better than this.

Nailed it. I think as Pitman so artfully put it, it's a money grab FU.

Maybe this is the best material they've got in the vault? The locker leaks don't exactly fill me with much confidence.

18 hours ago, BassistSeb said:

This mirrors my thoughts pretty much. I feel the bottom line is that Chinese could have been a double album with some filler if the songs released in 2008 were spread over two albums. However, with what's left it'd be a weak follow up. I think Atlas was the biggest surprise to me in that I saw why it was left off as it's similar to Catcher and Street of Dreams and Perhaps has a similar vibe as well. I guess it shows why Axl wasn't too keen to release a follow up and I feel he knew he needed some more songs. I've always wondered if DJ was hired more for his writing than his guitar playing - he'd co-written SOLA and The Heroin Diaries with Nikki Sixx and the latter had some radio singles. 

Exactly. I'm stunned by how mediocre this material is. Just the Crash Diet demo alone kills this stuff. There's a reason he was able to hire A-list players initially for CD (based on his previous reputation) but was unable to retain them.  Can you imagine Jimmy Iovine or one of those Interscope execs asking to listen to some of these demos and then that "macdaddy" song is played for them? He punk'd these execs plain and simple. Axl had the worst case of writer's block and was collecting huge multi-million dollar advances - not to mention getting unlimited time in state of the art recording studios with the best instruments on earth at his disposal, and whatever blank check perks the record label had been bankrolling for a decade before they cut him off the tab in 2004. These leaks actually complete some missing pieces of the story. That there was very likely only enough juice in 14 years for 1 solid album. Maybe we're both wrong and Soul Monster, Thyme, Oklahoma, The General, etc are classics. Personally, I'm skeptical...

DJ was hired out of desperation because Axl no longer had the credibility to hire A-listers for his touring band. He didn't want to collab on material with either DJ or Bumble because their writing contributions were subpar - they themselves have said that material went nowhere. Axl blew it by losing all that A-list talent from the 90's/early 00's. Once you get into a studio with guys like Bucket and Freese and you can't produce the goods, they're out the door and that's what happened. How many amazing players left the band or did not want to stick around after a couple auditions? This all really challenges the "Axl is Guns N' Roses" myth. He's a vital part of the band but not the maestro he thinks he is (imho).

Quote

Chinese 1: More Industrial/Experimental

1. Chinese 2. Riad 3. Scraped 4. Absurd 5. Shackler's 6. Ten Percenter 7. Eye on You 8. State of Grace 9. Madagascar 10. Me & My Elvis 11. Sorry 12. If the World

Chinese 2: More Traditional

1. Hard Skool 2. Oklahoma 3. IRS 4. Catcher 5. SoD 6. TiL 7. Atlas 8. Perhaps 9. Prostitute 10. Going Down 11. Better 12. There Was a Time 

That would have been a cool way to break it up IF any of these leaks had been worthy of release (jury is still out). I'd lean towards the experimental purely for Sorry and If the World (my favorite tracks from CD) even if the more traditional track listing is probably more consistent. But really, I feel like calling these tracks "experimental" might be a bit overstated. I don't really think Axl was pushing the envelope that far in any of the CD tracks. It seems like standard GnR fare to my ears with a late 90s/early 00's influence. I suppose the industrial elements and hip hop beats could throw an AFD/Lies fan for a loop but most of us who enjoyed UYI were already primed for them pushing their sound further into different styles. I wish Axl had left My World as an instrumental bonus track without the cheesy vocals - if you strip the vocals out retroactively, UYI 2 nicely segues into CD.

My own perfect CD tracklist would be:

1. Oh My God, 2 Shackler's, 3. If The World, 4.Catcher in the Rye (May), 5. The Blues, 6.Better, 7.There was a Time, 8. Sorry, 9. Prostitute. Bonus track: This I Love 

Quote

The thing is, had something come out along those lines I feel that the music press wouldn't have been kind to the record(s). There's a lot of padding and things like Absurd, Eye on You and State of Grace would have been received poorly. There's also the issue of a lot of the ballads sounding similar. Having said that, I'd have loved that had that come out in 2008. As a kid I was disappointed that I'd heard most of the album already and was at least expecting a double album. Whilst there's more filler, it would have seemed more in keeping with the amount of music I was expecting. Plus, the band could have incorporated more of their 'own' stuff into the set as it were. I mean, Tommy's solo spot could have been a GN'R song! The problem with releasing all the best stuff at once was that there wasn't really anywhere for the rest to go without some more writing. That being said, I find it funny that the band are just putting out singles now and again now as that was a trend way back in the late 00s/early 2010s. The Smashing Pumpkins were putting out individual songs as and when in the Teargarden era so it would have actually worked better as an approach back then I feel and would have gotten around the fact that there wasn't enough stuff for a cohesive album. 

I think you're right, if Axl had released a double album with tracks like these leaks, he would have been clobbered and rightfully so. Atlas or whichever song has the "how to be a man" lyrics is simply dreadful. I don't think any of these tracks can be salvaged except "Nothing" so I'm not too torn up that they never were properly released. In fact, going by the mistakes they made on UYI with too much filler material released, for me, I'm glad only the strongest CD material made the cut. They could have probably cut more tracks from the final tracklisting for an even stronger album given that a lot of this stuff had already leaked anyway.  Riad, Scraped, etc are b-sides that shouldn't have been on the album. Maybe all these leaks could have been released on a CD boxset, that would have nicely closed the book on that whole era while keeping expectations in check. I think unfortunately for many of us, a lot of these unreleased tracks have been built up in our minds for so many years, that at this point you expect nothing short of exceptional material. The standards are raised so high because of Axl's excellent track record in the past.

I actually like that they are putting singles out with this material - a perfect strategy. If this stuff was released in an album, it would just tarnish the brand. Released as a throwaway single without much fanfare seems like the correct way to go here.

On a final note....these Village leaks give me the impression that Axl was more interested in playing around with pro-tools and creating soundcapes/textures, than actually putting together a finished song. It seems like a lot of random experimentation without purpose or focus. It's like he's trying to do the Trent Reznor thing but cannot find a creative muse so all this stuff just meanders and feels half baked. I guess it also explains Axl's interest in film scores- he prefers making instrumental music.

Man the Village Leaks are....

Feels like an Emperor's new clothes situation. This is what he had in the vault?? Really? You came up with this crap with the likes of Buckethead, Finck, Stinson, Freese, Brain, Vrenna, etc?? Please tell me there is more to justify 1994-2008 than this. It appears like every half decent track he had was released on the 2008 album. I honestly think even Hard Skool and Absurd are above these leaks which explains why they were the first to be released last year.

"Nothing" may have potential. Eye on you is just average at best and I'm being kind. Atlas (the one with Brian May?) sounds like a generic alt-pop song you'd find on the Reality Bites soundtrack from the mid 90s. Bleh. The rest aren't even worth mentioning. If this is the bulk of what he has left - it makes Axl seem like an artist that has nothing left in the tank. Incredibly uninspired. Was music just a weekend hobby for him during those long wilderness years? That's what this makes me wonder now. I don't see how a "final" version of any of these tracks is going to stand up to what was already on Chinese Democracy even with Slash and Duff. The material just isn't there imho. Bring on the Moby and Youth era leaks I guess -that's the final frontier of this era...

There was another version of Oh My God that I heard and somehow they managed to strip the soul away from that one as well. All of the tracks seem exactly as Bob Ezrin described, like they've been painted over one too many times. Probably an audiophile's wet dream if you have good headphones and can pick apart each layer in the songs.

Oh My God was the best rocker from Chinese Democracy by far. Killer song. Had that old GnR swagger. Lyrics were vintage Axl. Just clean up the demo and remove whatever filter they used for Axl's vocals and it's perfection.

On 8/8/2023 at 10:14 AM, Voodoochild said:

Just speculation, but I don't think Axl considered Richard Fortus as more than a competent hired musician. Yes, he is capable of playing some of the stuff required, but he never had the prestige to be at the spotlight as the main lead in GNR. Maybe because Axl think as him as more generic than the others, from sound down to the looks? 

I'm not saying Richard is this or what, it is just my impression of what Axl did with him all those years. I like to think that Fortus and Robin would kick ass back in 2006, and Fortus and Bumblefoot would sound a lot better than anything with Ashba.

This. Iiirc, Fortus doesn't have a single writing credit on Chinese Democracy which speaks volumes as far as what Axl thinks. Gilby never had a writing credit in GnR either. People put way too much emphasis on technical proficiency. So what if he can play note perfect? What has he written that has stood the test of time? Same goes for Bumblefoot. They can play some great cover tunes though. Bumblefoot did a fine job on Don't Cry.

Buckethead is leagues beyond these guys as is Robin Finck.  Those two are talented artists in their own right (especially Bucket).

Didn't Marc Canter say that this 3 guitarist idea broke Slash's heart and was one of the reasons that drove him to quit? If I recall correctly, Finck briefly left the band in 2000, and then Axl found Buckethead via Brain - then Finck came back and expected the lead guitar spot but Axl was too attached to Buckethead and couldn't choose between them. Fortus was already in the band by that point. So voila, 3 guitarists. And naturally, Axl liked that sound because he's idiosyncratically overindulgent. He overcooks everything. Thankfully, when Slash came back, the 3 guitar idea was jettisoned and GnR went back to basics.

There's this one song called 'Sorry' that's almost like doom metal with Axl singing really clean over this grinding, slow beat that is fucking mean,' says Bach. 'I cannot get it out of my head.'" (Rolling Stone, 10/18/06)

Sorry was almost perfect...if not for some of the lyrics - it turns that song into almost a diss track like Get in the Ring. I love the mood of "Sorry", I really hope he has more songs like this in the bag and it's not just a one-off. This I Love could have been great as well but I think it's let down by the lyrics and the opera-esque theatrical mood/vocals. Just too melodramatic. A review once described it as Andrew Lloyd Weber-esque which I think is the perfect description.

The one song that came out of nowhere and was a surprise for me was "If the World". It's not perfect (that weird 70's porn riff) but it's a cool little song that flew under the radar a bit. I think it was one of the best songs on CD.

As Diesel Daisy would say, maybe Axl is adding an extra layer of bleeps to the song and thus it has been delayed?

1 hour ago, vloors said:

I heard it's delayed because Axl couldn't decide on the cover art for the single. 

He is consulting a fortune tellers opinion now.

You jest, but this is probably closer to the truth than anyone here would care to admit.

15 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The "complaints, complaints, complaints" comment she directed our way was well-deserved. We just can't take criticism. It's like when Chris referred to us as "dildos". Hilarious. 

I think people hate/dislike Beta for various reasons: she is rarely professional in her communication on social media (like most people her age), people project GN'R failures or disappointments onto her and her family (mostly undeserved), people dislike her rags to riches story sometimes combined with misogyny and or racism, I suspect there is some jealousy in there too, and people see her as some Machiavellian power-behind-the-throne figure that has practically imprisoned Axl and keeps him in some sedated state (haha). Just my 5 cents after having followed this band across discussion boards for a long time. 

My impression is that the Lebeis is Axl's family, first and foremost. A family he needed. A family that hopefully keeps him happy. Then they help out with what needs to be done, including managerial tasks (mostly Fernando, though. these days). They don't make band decisions, and I am not even sure they make much recommendations/advice. They are not your typical Alan Niven-type manager who pushes the band in the direction he wants, for better or worse. They work on directions from the band (not only Axl, at least not anymore). And for most part them seem to do it well enough (the touring after they took over has been exemplary). That doesn't mean they are great at everything they do, which is to be expected from Fernando getting the job through nepotism and not through talent; still, you learn on the job, I suppose. It's a bit of a give and take, and we can surely point to a few GN'R managers who did worse than the Lebeis.

But yeah, Beta has received a lot of dislike and hatred (not on this forum, at least not any more) and a lot of it is really ugly, and this has soured the relationship between that family and us hardcores, which is ultimately more our loss than theirs. One can always argue that it is her fault for her comments on social media, but there is really no excuse for some of the stuff posted about her over the years. 

At this point, it's all water under the bridge as far as Team Brazil. The band will never function like a real professional band. Fine, it is what it is. The best thing Team Brazil can do is to get their man to release stuff. He doesn't need to do anything new or create anything from scratch. Just release whatever is in the vault. It doesn't matter if it's instrumental #465. Give us something. Anything. Whatever you've got. They say that even before Roy Thomas Baker joined Chinese Democracy, they had over 60 songs near completion (if my memory is correct). That's a great deal of material to mine. Then you have the 95-97 sessions, which according to Sorum, yielded a number of tracks in the bag (without vocals I presume). They have many of the Illusion era shows professionally recorded. You have the UYI tour documentary where they likely even have footage of the infamous '92 dust-up between Axl and Kurt Cobain at the MTV VMAs. Just a treasure trove of material.

I really wonder at this stage of the game what exactly the hold up is. Is he afraid of putting old material out? Is he paralyzed by inaction? Why not just put that stuff on their website and charge us a kings ransom per track or show. We will buy it. If they're afraid of controversy over the Illusion tour footage, airbrush and delete anything that isn't G-rated so that the UYI tour footage looks like you're backstage at a Taylor Swift concert. At this point, expectations are extremely low.

If they can get him to put stuff out, then some of Team Brazil's failings can be overlooked.

When I was little, we found a man. He looked like - like, butchered. The old women in the village crossed themselves, and whispered crazy things, strange things. "El diablo cazador de hombres". Only in the hottest years this happens. And this year, it grows hot. We begin finding our men. We found them sometimes without their skin... and sometimes much, much worst. "El que hace trofeos de los hombres" means "the demon who makes trophies of man".

1 hour ago, chester said:

Bring on the left overs! Axl seems done with recording and Slash’s recent solo efforts have been pretty lackluster. 

This. I really like most of Axl's creative muses from the Chinese Era (except the nu metal stuff) - he had mostly very good taste in music back then so the leftovers still seem interesting. More AFD style material or Slash's generic butt rock for a new album seems very uninspired and stale to me.

Leftovers. Old Axl vocals from '99-02 > current Axl vocals.

1 hour ago, Draguns said:

Nice to see you moving the goal post. You didn't even brought up the years. Nirvana wasn't relevant by the late 2000s. It was more the Foo fighters. Metallica had St. Anger and was still feeling the fallout from Napster. Plethora of people didn't like Metallica as a result at that time period.  People were still intrigued by GNR  in the 2000s.  I don't agree that Buckethead should have been in GNR, but he did piqued a lot of people's interest. Additionally, CD had leaked and was played a lot on Myspace. They had been somewhat relevant.  Furthermore VR had help keep the GNR name in modern day culture at that time. 

You can't be moving goal posts  and bring up 

I haven’t moved goalposts- you haven’t bothered to read either of my posts properly. Once again, GnR is not as relevant as Metallica and Nirvana in America. GnR was largely irrelevant until the reunion. All of this is reflected in the ticket sales. These are not controversial statements. 

Shackler's is solid. But for me, the top tracks on CD are:

1. Sorry

2. If The World

3. Prostitute

4. Catcher in the Rye (Brian May version)

On 7/31/2023 at 3:30 PM, Draguns said:

I have to challenge this thinking here.  GNR's music was heavily featured in the last Thor movie. GNR's songs have been in other movies shows and video games. Captain Marvel dressed as Axl when she was younger.  I think this is a bit too much BS to say that Nirvana and Metallica are more relevant than GNR.  Additionally,  VH1 did a GNR special when the old band didn't even exist. Lastly, I see GNR in plenty of playlists on Spotify. No offense but I find your post to be a bunch of BS. 

That's why I said "imho", just my humble opinion. I was also referring mostly to the breakup years which has diminished GnR's impact in America. GnR's pop culture exposure from 1996-2016 is minimal compared to Metallica and Nirvana. I don't think that's a controversial statement. Axl himself did not want to promote the old band's legacy during those years. Metallica and Dave Grohl were everywhere during those years unlike Axl. Again, I don't think I'm being controversial by saying that GnR was considered a joke in America before Slash came back. If you don't believe me, here's a clip of Corey Taylor talking about going to a nu guns show and the crowd jeering as soon as he mentions GnR. People respected the old band but most downplayed their legacy here....because nu guns had tainted the whole thing. It's only after the reunion that the narrative started to slowly change. Helped in no small part by far better press coverage than the wilderness years. Thor and Jumanji came out after the reunion. We're talking about the post-breakup years - 20 solid years where Axl and Slash were not on speaking terms and suing each other over various things.

On 8/1/2023 at 12:41 AM, Stay.Of.Execution said:

that guy is a complete nutcase and a cancer. but doesnt surprise me lots of stupid americans listen to him. and stuff like this is the exact reason why axl will never be on his show. he would never want to be associated with subhumans like that

I mostly agree with you but I think you might have a little too much faith in Axl. We're talking about a guy who was obsessed with Charles Manson, had his energy read by a psychic named Yoda, was into past life regression, etc. Judging by that recent clip of Rogan speaking about GnR, it appears that Axl is very familiar with Rogan's work. If he didn't like the guy, I don't think he would have invited him backstage in Athens.

Rogan used to be amusing at times years ago because he was a pot smoking comedian who would talk rubbish with random celebrities and high profile people. Like a more sanitized evolution of Howard Stern. Then he started to wade into politics and it all went to hell. Many Americans are into conspiracy theories unfortunately. There is a lot of distrust in once hallowed institutions in the country like the media, supreme court, presidency, etc. So I guess Rogan found his angle to keep his show growing and now he has a huge following. Some are the original fans who enjoyed the nonsense he would talk about like UFOs and Big Foot - and then there are his true believers who think the election was stolen or democrats are vampires who drink the blood of children or whatever conspiracy theory they're into now. He has a huge platform though and it would be great promotion to go on his show for a new tour or album.

17 hours ago, Underhardy said:

Rogan is an incredibly intelligent, articulate man. He never talks about anything without that being substance behind his thoughts.

Holy shit.

3 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Do we know what the album cover was originally gonna be? I thought it was always gonna be the bike, no?

I might be way off here, but I always assumed it was this design?

Do we want a new album from this lineup with current Axl vocals?

Or are we wanting reskinned chinese era songs with Slash and Duff?

If they do another album, will Frank be on drums?

Positive: People were making some snarky predictions on various blogs in 2016 that GnR wouldn't be able to sell out even arenas, why were they booking stadiums. Well they were proven wrong. Big time. I also don't think many of us could have predicted Axl's reputational rehab. He has regained an enormous amount of credibility.

Negative: That he had a whole bunch of music and "big guns" just waiting in the wings. A magnum opus trilogy. The nu guns myth just blew up into a million pieces by the time of the reunion. In hindsight it seems like Axl shat the bed with that project. I really wanted to see what Axl could have pulled off with Buckethead and it just never really came together. I'm glad we got the demos that leaked, at least there's that.