RONIN
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Posts posted by RONIN
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"Trump may sound like the De La Hoya but he's the fuckin' Vargas and just because you have a bunch of guys agreeing doesn't mean shit. The truth is, they're a bunch of bad cops and I'm the fuckin' Serpico and they can suck my ****." - W. Axl Pose
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Metallica > The Axl Pose band
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1 hour ago, JimiRose said:
There is nothing cool about GnR anymore. GnR were cool from 85-91. Then Axl was mysteriously cool from 97-2010. From 2011 it's just been a try hard circus. 2016 wasn't what we hoped for in a reunion. And no new music. Dead band
Pretty much though I'd slightly change the dates:
'85-September '91 for the (mostly) original lineup.
Axl: '94 - 2006 .
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"The most boring band in the world" is much more appropriate now.
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I'd love to see them tour with Mike Patton again so he can encourage the audience to pelt Axl with trash like old times.
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3 hours ago, Blackstar said:
I think disappointment at people we don't know, like rock musicians, regarding things other than their musical output and performance, is a result of having put them on a pedestal based on a narrative that we like.
In this case, many people had an ideal image of Slash and Duff (as opposed to that of "villainous Axl") formed by picking from the things they said in public the ones that fit the narrative of them being the people who will always do whatever the "right thing" is (as opposed to Axl, again) - and when they don't, it's because they sold out/gave in and not because of a character flaw. So Duff was really "punk as fuck" until 2015, just based on what he said in some interviews once (mainly a couple where he said negative things about Axl), and now suddenly isn't
Admittedly, the narrative was better when Axl was the sole villain of GnR but point taken.
I don't have issues with Slash per se, it's known that he's been angling for a GnR payday since the 2nd snakepit album flopped. There is a bit of cognitive dissonance with Duff though as he seems to be turning into the Gene Simmons of the band lately. And you have Axl who criticized Slash about riding around in limos with Snoop Dogg and ends up doing the same thing. We've seen the full evolution of the band where they've turned into people they claimed never to want to be.
But who am I kidding, maybe if we were in their place we'd probably sign off on GnR toothpaste or "punk as fuck" suntan lotion. There are bands at their level who've balanced the art and commerce conundrum far better though.
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7 minutes ago, sofine11 said:
Axl certainly appears to be creatively bankrupt and far as his public output of new and exciting music goes. And I really don't care what he may or may not be tinkering on with his piano secluded somewhere in Malibu. As far as his legacy goes, it's been 14 songs since UYI, and that was 1991. To put that in perspective, I was in Kindergarten then, and am now a married 34 year old with two kids.
It's also why I'm one of the folks who thinks it's gravy if this album, assuming it comes, it made up of mostly Chi Dem era tracks, since the folks who wrote those songs were inspired for them to actually be something special.
Exactly how I feel. I hope if there's ever any forthcoming album, it's 100% pulled from the 90's/early 00's when there was still some fire in these guys. New material from current day Axl and Slash would likely be a major letdown.
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They would not be as "legendary" as they are today. Simple as that.
Even if Izzy had come back to the fold as a writer, you'd still have another rhythm guitarist on the albums. No chance of Popcorn Adler ever coming back. Sorum would most definitely have been fired along with Gilby. However you shake it, given the personalities involved, you're 2 original members down from the get-go. That's a different band entirely without Izzy on rhythm guitar and backing vocals. You can say that they would have been the rolling stones for gen-x had they stuck together, but I don't see how that would have been possible without Izzy still in the band. And from what we know, it was a longshot to ever get him back even as a part-timer through the 90's, let alone as a fulltime member.
As far as I understand, Guns were deeply unpopular in the mid-90's. With Axl wanting to change the sound of the band and adapt to modern times, - even if there was a compromise and Axl had done a "Slash" record (which would have under-performed), they would have undoubtedly gone through a nu-metal/industrial period. That album would no doubt have been late to the party and sunk without a trace. The appraisal of "Oh My God" at the time was that it was too late, coming out at the tail end of the industrial fad. I just don't see them having the staying power of Metallica/RHCP, the band dynamics of GnR were too different. They would most likely have become a b-tier band and lost their legendary status imho had the band found a way to stay together and release more albums. With that said, we undoubtedly lost 15 prime years of material, Axl and Slash were peaking as artists in the mid 90's to early 00's - we lost out on some killer albums. I have no doubt that had they stuck it out and gotten Izzy back, they would have topped UYI with their mid-to late 90's material.
Maybe Billy Corgan was right - the guns story and all their upheavals became part of their brand. The wasted potential and unpredictability, the lack of music - it all added to the GnR lore today. Perhaps that's why there's no new music...why tamper with their legacy which has been etched in stone already? All they need to do now is coast on nostalgia and gig endlessly.
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They're so lazy it would probably be some old demo from the 80's like Crash Diet.
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The only chance we have to get the real dirt on GnR is if we have a book that gets no holds-barred interviews from the following key players:
Del James, Chris Pitman, Dizzy Reed, Tom Zutaut (w/ input from Jimmy Iovine), Buckethead, Paul Tobias, Doug Goldstein, and Tommy Stinson.
They'd all have to be on bad terms with the GnR camp (4 out of 8 so far). With their side of the story, you can weave together something of a cohesive narrative from '93 to 2015.
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Well, they can say what they want, but to me...GnR does not feel like a real partnership between the three. It seems more like Duff and Slash joined Nu Guns. That theory seems to be gaining more and more traction each year without new music.
Slash is doing what he needs to do given the circumstances and is pragmatic about it. I suspect he had more interest in getting Izzy and Steven involved for NITL than the others. Yes, his recent playing seems tasteless and nowhere near even the VR days - but he's carrying this entire enterprise on his back and for that we must give credit.
Duff is a clown. How can you trust the judgement of a guy that recommended his Instagram followers to go see Rambo Last Blood? That movie was shite as the British would say. I get that he's friends with Stallone but come on man.
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That's all fine and dandy Duff but if you had split the loot equally with Izzy, he might have rejoined the band.
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Didn't Slash put Locomotive together in Izzy's house? Hard to imagine that Izzy wasn't involved at all in that process given the circumstances.
Duff is an Axl Rose yes-man. He's in a competition with Del James now to see who can lick Axl's boot more.
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Going by all the interviews, rumors, and behind the scenes chatter that found its way onto this forum over the past 17 years - here's my impression of nuGnR dynamics w/ Tommy:
*Axl recruits Tommy as a replacement for Duff - he has the same punk background but with more indie cred than Duff which was a perfect hire in Axl's mind. Axl in the 90's was a slave of trends and trying to align himself with every hip band's talent that he could poach. Tommy is thrilled to get a high paying steady gig as he was apparently working as a telemarketer to make ends meet. It's a perfect fit.
*Axl and Tommy grow very close during the early years of nu-guns (97-2003). Tommy ( a domineering force like Axl), assumes the #2 position and leads the band as Axl is usually MIA. Tommy also becomes tight with Axl lackey Del James during this time. He has no issues with Freese, Pittman, Dizzy, or Finck as none of them challenged his dominance in band politics. Dizzy and Pitman were sycophants, Freese was a paycheck gunner who had no intention of sticking around long-term, and Finck's loyalties were more with NIN than GnR. Paul Huge on the other hand may have had friction with Tommy - lack of talent + serious entitlement issues would have put him on a collision course with the 2nd biggest ego in the band.
*Enter Buckethead, Axl's new muse. Bucket was serious about the job in a way that none of the others were - he was here to stay and assume the position Slash had held with Axl. He wasn't there to collect a paycheck or play band politics. Soon enough, Axl, who recognizes how much of a talent Bucket is, starts to shape the creative decisions of the band around him in a semi-collaborative way - a courtesy likely not extended to the others. Buckethead is getting more attention and face time with the boss than the others who have to jockey for attention. This annoys Del James and Tommy who resent Bucket's talent, commitment, and dedication. Naturally, they bully and alienate him from the band. Tommy also behaves like an ass with Bucket's friend, Brain - the band's new drummer.
Bucket's immense talent and taking over lead guitar duties creates a rift with Finck. Finck was used to being the solo lead guitarist of the band. Hence you get the clusterfuck of the '02 nu guns shows where Bucket, a virtuoso, is playing second fiddle to a b-list talent like Finck. Del James, Finck, and Tommy essentially drive Buckethead out of the band. The final straw comes with Axl missing the album release date and the disastrous 2002 tour - Bucket has had enough. Axl throws Buckethead under the bus in a press release in 2003 which effectively ends any chance of Bucket's return to GnR. To this day Buckethead does not speak of GnR/Axl publicly and dislikes being asked about his time in the band.
*After a 3 year lull where they've been working as a 2-guitar band, enter Ron Thal. Even though he doesn't enjoy the vaunted position Buckethead had with Axl, he's still perceived as a threat by Tommy, Finck, and Fortus and is given a hostile welcome. Thal's talent, like Bucket, far exceeded what they brought to the table and hence he was the odd man out.
By 2009-2014, there's a general cooling off in Tommy's relationship with Axl. They weren't as tight as they used to be in the early days. The realization that the nu band was in a death spiral and that they had missed their moment is the vibe I get from his post-CD interviews. GnR was a paycheck gig for him from the start but he was no longer invested in the band. Needless to say, the redhead himself had stopped giving a shit by that point.
Excerpt from a Thal interview:
Does that play a part anymore, after seven years? Like Tommy would go, “pfff, you're a kid!”.
- I've always just felt like me in the band. But now I think that the other guys in the band feel like I'm actually part of the band and not the outsider-new-guy. Whether they would admit it or not, or agree or not, you know, I wasn't made. I was Morrie in “Goodfellas”. They were all made. I could have been as nice as possible and gone along with the business - but I was never gonna be made. I think now, at this point, I'm more accepted. I don't think I'll ever fully be accepted, honestly.
Really?
- I don't think so. The way I came into the thing, the way I was brought into it, and the things that transpired in the beginning - and even previous relationships that I inherited - everything about it... If I'm gonna be completely honest - and maybe it's not them, maybe it's me, maybe it's how I feel about it, and maybe it's just me passing that onto them and saying this is how they feel - but in my opinion, my thought is that, I don't know if I'll ever fully be part of it. I don't think I'm a guy they're gonna call and say, “hey, you wanna hang out?”, or “hey, I'm working on my solo stuff - you wanna lay a track?”, or “hey, I'm going out to dinner - you wanna join?”, or “hey, I'm coming to town, let's get together!”. I don't think I'm ever gonna be the first guy in the band that they call. And you know what? Maybe it's because I've been such a pain in the ass in the band! Maybe if it was the other way around, I wouldn't call me either. Because I haven't been the easiest.
In what way?
- Well, when I first joined the band, they did not want me in the band. And it's not me - they just didn't want a third guitar player. ‘Cause at the time they had worked it out for two guitar players. Then suddenly the old manager at the time hits them up one day, and the tour was, like, two weeks away. He said, “your new guitar player is coming down”. And they're like, “what the hell - who the fuck is this?”, and I showed up, and they wouldn't even look at me. For that first tour, you know, I was treated like shit. Like absolute shit. They wouldn't really talk to me. If I spoke, they'd roll their eyes and walk out of the room. I was made to feel as unwelcome as possible. Until, finally, I had to get a little violent. And then they started realizing that I'm not gonna leave. They're gonna get hurt.
In what way?
- Physically.
Really?
- Yeah. Then they realized that they couldn't bully me, and that I was gonna fight at a level they weren't prepared for. And then they started loosening up how nasty they were. It was about three years before they would really start warming up and start talking to me. Even about things back then. ‘Cause I didn't know why they were so cold to me, and I realized that they would have treated anybody that way. It was a set of circumstances, a lack of communication from the management that was there at the time, that set it up so it was almost like a stranger thrown into a crowded cage.
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I'm surprised Rolling Stone even gave a rat's ass about them enough to write that article. Whatever interest and momentum GnR had with the general public was squandered back in 2016/2017. The media didn't give two fucks about those demos leaking from Zutaut's locker. No one cares anymore. I bet 1/3 of this forum wouldn't even bother to download the new album for free at this point. Axl was the boy who cried wolf for the past 20 years. We moved on.
They'd probably license welcome to the jungle for a Care Bears movie than release a single note of new music.
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I think this book will be nerfed sadly. There was an outside chance that Sorum would deliver a no-holds barred account of the GnR days - but with him engaging on social media with Duff/Slash and wishing Axl a happy birthday, it probably won't happen now. I imagine the GnR camp reached out to him and smoothed things over. I expect something along the lines of Slash's book. None of these guys will risk a tell-all about the band. Too much money and personal relationships at stake to do that.
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The Melrose Place-esque soap opera drama set them apart. A bipolar redhead diva who spent 25 years eating pork rinds in bed. The legend of Paul Tobias and his abduction by aliens. Mr. Buckethead. The ghost of Izzy Stradlin'. That's what sustained interest through the 90's up till 2006. Since then, there's been nothing special about the band.
Maybe their specialty now is inducing boredom in their dwindling fanbase.
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Unpopular opinion no doubt but imho, Lies is an average at best album. Best thing to come out of it was the killer live renditions of You're Crazy and Used to Love her that they did on that tv show in '88/89. Still the best ever versions of those songs.
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I don't know if he is over Chinese Democracy, but a lot of fans are. Nearly 20 years of discussion about this album among fans and was it really good enough to warrant that kind of interest? Enough already. Everything with this band has become boring and predictable - every subject discussed on the forums is now a dead horse that has been flogged ad infinitum.
Even among the diehards here, I'd bet there are a good amount that have already checked out of any new material this band puts out. 2019 Axl and Slash reheating 20+ year old demos is not very exciting to me. Them putting together new compositions is even less exciting as they're a decade plus from their prime at this point. It all feels so anticlimactic like the general feeling here in 2008 when we finally had an official release date for CD.
If these guys really want to strike the goldmine - just release material from the glory days and the chinese democracy sessions. All the demos - just dump them all online. I'd love to see extensive documentaries of the pre-afd hellhouse days, the legendary AFD tour, and especially the 1994-2003 era of the band. Give us all the drama and soap opera which is the selling point of this band now anyway. Sell the story to HBO and have them do a no-holds barred series on GnR. Axl throwing italian food at fans from his hotel, smacked out Slash running through a golf course trying to escape Predators, Izzy pissing on a plane and getting arrested - all of it. Season 1 - the road to AFD, Season 2 - Illusions, Season 3 - Band breakup/Chinese Democracy.
End the show with Buckethead quitting the band and the official disbanding of the "freakshow" lineup (the OG nu-guns lineup). Maybe do an epilogue of 2004-2016 (the less interesting era of the band) to complete the story. Milk that whole thing to death - that would be way more interesting than whatever they're doing now.
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1 hour ago, Saltzy said:
Quick side tangent. I was at the bar outside the venue by the sports book like an hour before the show Saturday and was bullshitting with the guys next to me. Turns out they were friends/roommates with members of Dirty Honey, the opening act.
One of my 1st questions/comments was 'Wow, it must be incredible for a new unheard of band to be able to meet and spend some time with rock icons, huh?'
I should have known the response before I even heard it, but in the least surprising answer ever they told me, 'Oh, yeah. They don't get to meet GNR. They were just told when/where to show up and given a few tickets for their friends.'
I mean, not even being willing to meet your fucking opening act? Seriously?
Give me a break. That has nothing to do with being old.
It just means you think you are better than everyone else and are a ruthless cockface.
I suspect this is an "Axl" /Team Brazil thing. Hard to imagine Duff and Slash going along with that unless it was a GnR corp mandate.
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38 minutes ago, lame ass security said:
I'm pretty sure they've always had someone run in and reset Axl's mic stand, like since the beginning. Not a big deal. Hell, Freddie Mercury used to have an assistant tie his shoes before a show.
It looks cheesy/cringe since he's no longer the wildman he was back in the 80's and 90's. Hell even '02 Axl could pull that off. Not now. I agree with whoever said that their concerts are starting to feel broadway show-esque.
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3 minutes ago, Gimpy Hewitt said:He actually used "and" in a sentence?
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'91-94 drunk n' high peak Illusion Slash > '87-90 drunk n' high prime AFD Slash > '95-01 drunk n' high post-GNR prime wilderness Slash > '02-06 trying to get sober n' failing / end of prime VR Slash > 07 - 08 newly sober Libertad Slash> '09-15 Post-VR solo Slash > 2016-present long past his prime uninspired nu-GnR Slash
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New Rolling Stones SD Blu-Ray ft. Salt Of The Earth (featuring Axl Rose & Izzy Stradlin)
in GUNS N' ROSES - DISCUSSION & NEWS
Posted
"He's in my ass! That's where Izzy is." - W. Axl Pose