Tom2112

On 6/6/2024 at 2:54 AM, SoulMonster said:

It's not about how many will hear it, but the expectations that come with the release of an album. 

And I didn't say he proved anyone wrong, I speculated that perhaps he thinks he did. 

You see there was still expectations when people read "new gnr song" clicked the link and then instantly didn't like it. I know the point you're making, and I think that might be the mindset, he's aware that through all the promises he made before Chinese he over hyped the music to an impossible place. However he cannot control these things outside of saying he's not releasing music anymore.

I just don't see how he could view the released songs as successes though. And I don't think he's crazy enough to believe releasing 4 more songs suddenly makes up for the 14yrs wait for Chinese and then the 13yr wait after Chinese. He rightly can claim the successes from his touring and a switch in public perception though.

And just for the record, I don't hate the released songs, I just don't think they are strong enough that I would have wanted them released, obviously Axl views these songs in another way and has personal attachment. I always go back to an interview with Myles Kennedy where he talked about having another album ready but shelved it in favour of making fresh material (year of the tiger) because he felt the time for its release had passed. 

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think it matters any more. The average man's opinion on CD won't be affected by these new releases because the average man doesn't listen to them - not because they are necessarily bad but because people don't listen to this kind of music and the releases were so low-key events that barely caused any commotion. It wasn't like, "GUNS N' ROSES, THE 80S ROCKERS, RELEASE THEIR FIRST ALBUM AFTER SLASH REJOINED THE BAND!" It wasn't a thing. Releasing the songs this way, instead of bunding them into an album with all that means, takes pressure off Axl but it still means he gets the music out which he worked at for years and years. He can go back to the naysayers around him, like label and music journalists and previous music professionals and say, "Hey, I told you, we did create more than one album, the music is coming out," and more importantly, he can tell himself that he was right all along and did what he set out to do. Without having the scrutiny and backlash he would get it the songs came out as an album which would likely perform poorly, even more poorly than CD did. Anyway, just speculation from me, of course.

And yes, of course I wish he would just bulk release it all. It might draw more attention to it, though, so that might be one reason he is not doing that, but who know, he works in mysterious ways. 

Why on earth would anyone want to release material but only in the situation that not very many will hear it? Axl definitely wanted people to hear these songs, he just overestimated gnrs appeal outside of a touring entity. 

Axl didn't prove anyone wrong though. If he was going to prove people wrong he would have dropped these songs very close to the original Chinese album... Not wait 13yrs and then release songs that even most diehard gnr and Chinese Democracy fans don't enjoy. Releasing them after NITL, made him look out of ideas and Slash/Duff looked like high paid session players going along to get along.

23 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't think the fact that he focuses on old material and won't work on songs from Duff or Slash has got to do with him not being able to write new lyrics or don't trust his voice. I think it comes down to wanting to get the old songs out. He spent so many years working on those songs with so many problems and criticism, it's a way to redeem his effort and prove that all the money and time spent didn't just go into one album ("most expensive album never made"). I think for him personally getting the songs out is vindication and closure. If he were to abandon the songs and instead work on new music with Slash and Duff, it would all have been for naught and the criticisms would in a sense be fulfilled. This is just speculation from my side, of course.

He might consider it redeeming that time and effort. In reality it's cementing opinions that Chinese Democracy was shit (I love the album) and here's 4 more songs we don't care about.

He needs to walk away from that material OR just bulk release whatever else he needs to get out

19 hours ago, gavgnr said:

Be cool if they release a new album and announce a tour in November 

Of course, but I can't see how they could pul it off with Slash and Duff constantly touring and working on other projects. It would have to be a very secretive and thrown together album.... Which might not be a bad thing, overthinking hasn't always been to the benefit of GNR

7 hours ago, vloors said:

The thing I wonder is if Izzy did make it back would we already have had a new album of newly recorded material. Izzy brings alot of ideas and writing to the band for where Axl struggles. 

Well he definitely did have a way of working with Axl and feeding him lyrics and songs, I just don't know if anybody could move things any faster than they are going though. I would guess that Izzy wouldn't put up much of a resistance if he suggested something and got rebuffed

11 minutes ago, Uncle Bob said:

he's been on autopilot since 2011 except when he had to play with a band where he wasn't the boss

He seemed a bit more focussed on this last run, but it might be a little too late. Had he taken steps in 2011 when the first major wobbles began he might have retained his power and control. But yeah I agree, I have said for years that Axl treated his voice like something that was just there, he got off tour and threw it alongside his luggage thinking it would be just the same the next time he went out the door again. That might be the case for a young singer, but as you age you can't think that will continue, and as time went on Axls voice got thinner and less stable and powerful, and he lost ability to distort and essential lost his ability to sound like his trademark sound.

What's clear though, is all isn't lost. Listening to Brian on the Rock or bust tour you would think he was done, listening to him now he clearly isn't, and he obviously isn't 30 or 40 vocally but he sounds like the singer from the records when it comes to the important parts and that's what people pay for. He adapts the vocal line appropriately, he doesn't hit all the high notes but it sounds solid. Axl with help can get his voice back together, assuming he hasn't any damage to his vocal chords (like JBJ).

I hope gnr have the return to the stage AC/DC are having Brian is sounding better than I expected... I really hope Axl is doing something to come back healthier than the last times we saw him, goes to show what you can do when you have the desire to do better 

51 minutes ago, lunastar said:

The very fact that Izzy was not involved back suggests that the band's plans did not include restoring the classic line-up, and therefore writing music and recording an album. That's what we've seen over these eight years, just touring and almost no music. It would be interesting to look at the partnership memorandum with Izzy's participation. Most likely, the ones who made the decision in partnership were Axl and Izzy. And then Slash took Izzy's place and we already know how it ended (with a big scandal and the dissolution of the band). For sure, Izzy would have demanded the restoration of his influence, it seems to me that Axl was scared and chickened out, because then he would have to prove to Izzy that he was not a creative bankrupt. Axl would have to show Izzy the notebook in which he writes down his lyrics, which I don't think Axl has kept for a hundred years

Izzy was involved, he just left when the money/contract wasn't too his liking.

But there wasn't a plan of putting the classic band back together. Adler at one point was going to play the AFD songs Izzy was probably going do something similar. Circumstances changed and we got we got, a few guest spots from Steven and that was it. 

I don't know how Steven acted (good or bad) behind the scenes but things seemed to turn sour pretty quickly.

It's a shame things weren't ironed out though, at least for the AFD anniversary even if they just got up and played a few songs together. Hard to put the rabbit back in the hat though if they did the classic 5.

26 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

I can see both sides of the fence on this issue. On Axl, Slash and Duff's side, they have been the ones who, all these years, have been dealing with all the litigation and the other other business shit involved with being in the partnership, whereas Izzy bailed from it so he can't possibly expect to get an equal share now. On the other hand, Izzy probably sees it as the other three cashing in on music and success he had an important part in creating.

And from a fan's perspective - who is a fan because of the music first and foremost - Izzy's side naturally resonates more.

According to the 1992 partnership agreement, there was no other written agreement before it and the band operated under an oral partnership agreement. So I doubt there were any formal provisions about the decision making before the 1992 agreement - they probably just all had equal stock shares in the companies they owned.

I come from the fan perspective, but I can't help but think of the business side. 

And while Izzy is thinking "those are my songs" to quote Lars "I left the fawking band"

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

To add to this (and also clarify), the only income that Izzy still seemingly gets from GN'R is the part that corresponds to his publishing rights (the rights from writing or co-writing the songs). For that purpose, there was a separate publishing agreement attached to the settlement agreement about Izzy's partnership rights that was signed in April 1994. We don't have the main settlement agreement, but we do have the attached publishing agreement:

https://www.a-4-d.com/t8122-1994-04-dd-co-administration-agreement

That 1994 publishing agreement presumably concerned the publishing rights for the songs on the Illusions (as the publishing for AFD and Lies had already been settled) and that's where the publishing shares for UYI, as explained in the link in my signature (and in which Izzy has about 25% of the publishing) have stemmed from.

Wow I didn't know any of this. Izzy and his representatives really made a poor decision. I doubt he's hurting for money though

7 hours ago, 2020_Intensions said:

I'm not talking about music. I'm talking about how apparently the band has planned a tour but the equal partner has no idea what's going on ....

I think he was being coy. Are they supposed to be equal partners? I would imagine that Axl has the most power legally, and maybe Duff / Slash have 25% each? but I don't know obviously, I just find it hard to see Axl giving them equal partnership powers.

43 minutes ago, 2020_Intensions said:

But Slash & Duff are equal partners right??? They're calling the shots too right??? Isn't that what everybody here likes to claim? That they're not just employees? 

They can't make Axl record and write music, and they can't use the name. They are partners in the business and have their say unlike Richard, Dizzy, Melissa etc. but they can only do so much.

My feeling is that they (Slash and Duff) are just not arsed putting the effort into making it happen with Axl as they know it's going to be hard work motivating him, and I just think with that kind of lax approach I just don't think there's the necessary fire to make music and even if they do, how good can the music be when you're that uninspired. End of the day if you want to make and release music you do it, and there's not half of the difficulty gnr claim there is. They need to come to terms with the fact that records come and go in a week, maybe less if the records shit but you do it 1. To be creative 2. Give something to your fans 3. Shut people up complaining you're resting on your back catalogue. The last thing you do it for now is money, and that's obviously a sticking point for them.

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

The verses are okay. The chosen vocal style might not be to everyone's liking but I don't think it is pitchy. But the chorus is astonishing. Including the intro to the chorus. So much anger, so much power, so much emotion. Among the best vocals ever recorded by Axl. I can't wait for a final version. 

I like verses, it's the pre chorus "ohs" that are a bit naf

9 hours ago, evilfacelessturtle said:

OMG would be wild. IIRC that was one of the Huge songs that Slash refused to work on back in '96. However, I've come to appreciate it and it actually has a pretty nasty riff that I'd like to hear Slash play.

SOG... the verses are just fucking EMBARRASSING. They sound like one of those Youtubers who mock Axl's pitchyness. IDK what anyone sees in that song except an okay chorus.

That's what I think was "sketch" part of the last comment. I don't view those vocals as the final take because obviously they were unfinished, there's definitely parts that he was just riffing and it almost sounded like one take.

For me it has a great baseline, groove and the way the song builds is probably the coolest thing I've heard from GNR. That song could be great very easily. New vocal,  new guitars. 

7 hours ago, Rindmelon said:

Late last year Dan Potter from @username's favourite company spoke about looking into how to make content for something like The Sphere for if they were to bring GN'R there

https://jumpshare.com/s/JBZor71Ml0r9umV7wTrg

To do one night there may not be cost effective, especially if a company is designing big screen shit to be used for one night only. Makes me wonder if there may be a residency at some point. Who knows.

No you have to do a month of gigs minimum to get your investment back.

It would have to be the sphere though, they can't just play at the hard rock. 

In a perfect world the sphere would be a great launch pad for a new record🤷‍♂️

8 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Of the locker leaks, Atlas is the only other remaining song that sounded mostly finished. Stuff like State of Grace, Nothing, etc. just sounded like sketches.

And yes, I know some people claim that Axl did vocals for stuff like Seven or whatever, but until I hear it, I won’t believe it.

I agree with your sketches comment.

But I don't think the idea of Axl having other vocals on tracks is that far out. It's far out to be thinking those songs are going to be released though😄

Atlas is likely, Monsters is almost a certainty, I still think there's a chance we get OMG with Slash and Duff. I just hope we get SOG in a more finished state, has so much potential.

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

That might be the case for you. I was always drawn by guitars, so that’s more important to me. I know Axl wasn’t perfect in 2017 but good enough to make the whole stadium happy. There were very view moments I couldn’t enjoy.

2010 instead… Ashba and Bumble. No thanks. Not for me.

Of course it's subjective. I'm not a fan of Ashba and as much as I love Bumble he could sometimes put a little too much of his style on the classic gnr songs live

I thought 2017 for the most part was still solid from Axl, it was 2018 to present that went down the shitter 

Funnily enough the band performance seemed to get worse in tandem with Axls voice, that should have been the sign to wrap up the NITL touring... But genius management thought otherwise. Make the short term and kill your singers voice, smart!

4 hours ago, Free Bird said:

2010 was definitely my worst GNR live experience and the least memorable GNR show I went to. A rock n roll show is far more than just the singer imo.

Wait, it’s not Buckethead on The General?

The band has to be killing it too (I haven't seen any video of the band in 2010 not killing it IMO), but if the singer sucks the band sucks no matter what else happens on stage. So while it's the sum of all parts, the singer is still the be all/end all when it comes to good/bad performances.

2006 was my favourite gig, followed by 2012. 2010 was most memorable and best vocal then the NITL shows come after that.

On 5/18/2024 at 3:43 PM, fabrph5 said:

yea, we had SOOOO much before that very successful tour.  An album that took way to long, no promo, and playing it to venues with 7000 people watching a cover band play the hits.  no thanks!

Well you had Axl still singing pretty well / excellently. And that counts for more than the capacity/attendance of the shows.

I don't care at this point what gnr do. But the shows I saw 2006-2012 were head a shoulders above the NITL shows I saw. So if I was choosing to only ever be able to see a great gnr gig or just a gig with more original members I'm going to choose the "cover band".

4 hours ago, ShadowOfTheWave said:

Demon Fire is bland as hell. Witch's Spell and TTMOT are the best tracks on the album.

Yeah Demon fire wouldn't have been on my list to hear live from that album.

The obvious ones for were Realize, Rejection, Kick you when you're down, Systems down, Witch's spell, Shot in the dark. Which is not bad to have that many solid choices! 

1 hour ago, axlslash said:

Demi's last album was a hard rock/metal record. It's pretty solid. She recruited Nita Strauss for the album and tour, so more than just lip service to the genre. And her voice sounds GREAT over a real heavy guitar.

 

Well is certainly a rock record (pop punk/rock) but it's 100% not metal😄

She seems to be into rock/metal though, but I think she has a proper rock record in her, to me it sounds like Kelly Clarkson since you been gone type pop rock. Great pipes!

The best thing on the record in my opinion. Nice soling, great backing track and Her vocals are absolutely spot on! she is insane gifted (and trained) with her vocal control. Living for the city is also a favourite so far, big fan of that song in general and it doesn't disappoint.

My one negative takeaway from the record is that it's incredibly safe. How many times do we need to hear Crossroads covered? and especially when it's just the same old version. I think Slash could have taken a few more left turns and chosen a few other less covered songs. I know it needs to be commercially viable and well known songs will get more clicks, so I understand the thought process.

19 hours ago, El Guapo said:

It would be a massive flop, that's for sure.

Massive flop if they released it on a mass scale, but a limited run would be bought by completeists and it wouldn't cost much to get it loaded on to streaming services. The way it is now those songs have been released and are now buried unless you know to look for them. As much as Axl might dislike promotion etc.I can't imagine the life he hoped for these songs was to be released without people knowing.

Obviously it wouldn't be a replacement for a brand new album of Slash/Axl/Duff songs legitimately written and recorded since the reunion. 

1 hour ago, colonizedmind said:

Yea...finished as in first run vocals and work in progress...there's a lot of repeat verse and chorus twice on what we've had so far, so hopefully he's left a bunch of 'big guns' that are more fleshed out ...not logical to put these 4 out first if you have better ya say? Well this band (Axl) is random and not logical....they have put out these 4 while "Monsters" remaina not out ....despite the initial obvious plan to have had it released in 2023....

🎱There's no logic here today

25 minutes ago, Sweersa said:

Why have they not released these on audio cassette tape yet? They did for Hard Skool with Absurd and two live songs. Would be nice to listen to these songs in my car. Maybe it's because the new album will have them all and be coming out soon?

Hopefully when they've finished with the remaining songs, they compile everything onto a CD release. I'm doubtful of it happening given the response, but a limited run would sell.