GoodOlJohnnyK

I don’t understand why everyone thinks The General is the pick for the next single. We’ve heard close to *nothing* of that song, same for some ambient background noise of a cell phone recording that *might* have some vocals on it. Meanwhile, Atlas Shrugged is fully formed and ready to go. Look, I *hope* it’s something we haven’t heard like The General because I’ve heard Atlas and I’m not impressed, to say the least. But smart money still has to be on Atlas Shrugged as being next, no?

I’d never thought about it like that, but you’re exactly right.

Was there ever any reason given for why it wasn’t played at Hershey? Just needed a few extra days’ rehearsal time?

Is this what actually happened, or is it just DJ’s version of events? Has there been any other commentary on this? I just have a hard time picturing Slash ever playing next to DJ Ashba. Despite what Nuno Bettencourt thinks about Richard Fortus, Richard can play his ass off. I don’t know if DJ Ashba has the chops to hold his own against Slash. Obviously, technical skills aren’t everything - but Ashba is a bar band guitarist at best. I just can’t believe he was ever seriously considered for the NITL tour.

I think you’re right, actually. Either way, not that they have to follow the same release pattern, but I wouldn’t freak out if they don’t debut anything for the first few shows.

This is true. This is also true. …aaaand you lost me.

Yup. They debuted Absurd at Fenway, the second show of the tour, and then released it 2 days later. Interestingly, Hard Skool was released late in that leg of the tour, and debuted in Baltimore (it was underwhelming - I was there).

We also shouldn’t forget what a low percentage of the audience we are. The amount of actively-online, diehard GnR fans is relatively low in comparison to the casuals at a show. If you go up to an average person at a show and ask them if they’re excited for The General, the odds are they’re not going to know what you’re talking about. I don’t think it would be enough to change their current plans just because 70-80 fans worldwide have heard them sound checking an unreleased song.

I think that’s where we disagree. As much as I love It’s So Easy and Bad Obsession, I want that banshee wail. The high register screech is what makes Axl’s voice so unique to me. That’s what I want to hear.

I love when people misuse quote and single quote marks. 'Axl Rose' makes it seem like it was an impersonator.

I actually think Axl can still do quite a bit, especially in the studio. He still has excellent moments live, it's just nothing compared to 2016, when he sounded amazing on a significant portion of the setlist. In the studio, between studio magic and the ability to do multiple takes and not having to worry about preserving his voice for a tour, I've no doubt he could sound good on record - I don't think he'd have to adjust the melodies, unless he was specifically writing songs with the idea of playing them on the road (which I actually don't think is a good idea.) I think he really thought Chinese Democracy was going to be something special. Once it was essentially forced out of his hands, it killed whatever spirit he still had left for producing new music. That's just my pet theory, of course.

I understand what you’re saying, and I’m not downplaying the nuance in music: I’m a guitarist, semi-accomplished and “almost famous (not really).” The slightest inflection makes a big difference. I guess that - while I agree with quite literally everything you said about music, to the point where I’m stealing your whiskey/tea metaphor for future use, I also very much believe in the expression “good enough for rock n’ roll.” I also don’t want to deny the original 5’s chemistry - I was more responding to the band’s communication *today* and why they don’t want Izzy/Steven around. If the band were to write new music, for instance, I’d miss Izzy’s input very much in particular. Appetite is a timeless classic, and Steven’s drumming was perfect for it - but I also enjoyed Use Your Illusion with Matt Sorum, so I guess my taste in drummers is less discerning. But my point is I was discussing Steven’s importance to the *current* band, as a touring entity that occasionally releases reworked 20 year old songs.

I actually think he sounds more exciting, though I’m aware that this is all just a matter of personal taste. The solo for Double Talkin’ Jive gets me every night. So while I might get frustrated if he improvises his way through the Estranged solo - one of my favorites - I’m just as into his playing now as I ever was. Even if he doesn’t always nail it, I appreciate the improvisation - there have even been 1 or 2 This I Love’s that I really loved the solo for. And I agree with your points about band lineups, but I was more making a comment that, with hardcore fanbases and internet culture in particular, people are never satisfied. Everyone has their definition of what Guns N’ Roses is and should be, but I think I’m safe in saying that the guitar playing of Slash is a big part of the sound to a lot of people. To me, it’s like saying Joe Perry sucks, let’s get Jimmy Crespo back in the band. Okay, well let me ask *you* then. Putting aside Steven Adler’s feelings, do *you* think it was disrespectful to only let him play a song or two?

And even then, the honeymoon on these forums would be short lived. Only in this fandom could someone like Slash rejoin the band…and then people immediately shit on him and say he doesn’t have it anymore and his solos suck and they miss Robin Finck, etc. Izzy and Steven would rejoin the band, everyone would be happy for 2 or 3 shows, and then the threads would start about how Paul Tobias actually wrote better songs and Steven just can’t play the new songs like Josh Freese and Brain could… Well that’s an interesting way to approach a discussion forum, or to have a discussion in general. “I am right because I say so and everything you say is irrelevant.”

Yeah but I think that’s the difference between ourselves and Axl, and I think it’s also the difference between Axl and Slash & Duff: I don’t think new music excites Axl. It clearly excites Slash and Duff, which is why they keep releasing new records even though the vast majority of people don’t really care. They like making music, and that’s cool. I’d like to think that if music was still my full time job, I’d be the same way. Axl, however, strikes me as being exactly like Billy Joel: he loves performing and is quite happy with his back catalogue, he just doesn’t feel the need to create anymore. And that’s cool too. My bullshit armchair psychoanalysis of Axl is that the relevancy was a big part of the allure to him. Axl in 1991 was on top of the world and, more importantly, he captured so much of the culture’s fascination. In so many ways, Axl was Eminem before there was an Eminem: a midwestern white boy who had been kicked around by life and thus was cursed with an overwhelming amount of rage and, blessed with an electric wit and a knack for social observation, directed that rage into venomous, aggressive, thought provoking, and beautiful poetry. They were the dregs of society that somehow became its focal point and, once they got on top, they started swinging back at the culture - dissecting and mocking anyone and anything that had anything to say about them on albums like the Use Your Illusions and The Eminem Show. It must have been exhilarating. Spin Magazine writes a bad review? Here’s Get In The Ring. The Tipper Gores of the time had something nasty to say about his music? Here’s My World, where he taunts the audience and says “guess what I’m doing now…” over a track unlike anything on the album or anything Guns N’ Roses had done before. And everyone *was* guessing. They talked it about it for *years*: what was Chinese Democracy? What is he doing, locked in that studio for all these years? But, like with Eminem, the culture changes and moves on. Eminem can’t shock you anymore. He’s 50 and leads a quiet life outside of the public eye. That’s why his music went from being relevant to his recent output simply being rhyming words with no apparent meaning or message. Howard Stern was also the subject of the public’s scrutiny and fascination: once that went away, he became an only slightly edgier version of Ellen on the radio. It’s boring. And Axl? He’s lost the public’s attention and also much of his mystique: the question turned from “what is he doing?” to “does anyone still care?” I do think that matters to him. It’s kinda like a gambler who isn’t satisfied with a small bet - he only gets his rush when there’s big money on the line. It’s also worth pointing out that Axl, by all accounts of people who work with him, seems like a much mellower, more well rounded, and happier individual than he was then. He certainly seems significantly happier onstage. Every fan who meets him seems to have nothing but nice things to say. He’s 61. He’s conquered the world a few times over. He might just be…content with his life. I sure would be. Chinese Democracy was a statement. So much of the album boils down to one general theme: fuck you for doubting me and leaving me. Whether that’s an ex-girlfriend like Stephanie Seymour, his former band mates, or the culture itself which turned him into the punchline of a joke. But beyond that, I don’t think he’s got anything left to say.

Your point was that they were disrespectful to Steven for only letting him play one song - I disputed that and gave you reasons why. Then you said “he’s done with them” or they “blew it” with him because of how they treated him. And I’m saying, due to his general personality and the current state of his career, this is also likely untrue: I’d bet a year’s salary that if they offered him the opportunity to play Reckless Life and Rocket Queen in Hershey, he’d drop everything and do it. Though I’m also tired of it. Let’s be friends. I hate taking in circles. So tell me, which song do you think they’re releasing next, THE GENERAL OR SOUL MONSTER?!

Yeah I hear ya. I guess I just don’t get it. I listen to every show on YouTube like the rest of us, and I read all the comments trashing Frank’s playing, and all I think is “what am I missing here? This sounds fine. It’s got groove. It swings. What’s with the hate?” I guess I’m just not hearing it. And sure, there’s always going to be a difference in styles. But I guess what I’m saying is that they’re *different* drummers, but equally good, to me. I mean Slash has a different style than say someone like, oh I don’t know, Nuno Bettencourt. But that doesn’t mean he couldn’t play the same gig as… …oh nevermind.

I’m not saying Steven doesn’t have groove or that it’s not a big part of his style, nor am I saying that you have to be Neil Peart to be a good drummer. Quite the opposite in fact. I just don’t think it makes that big of a difference, especially to an audience. Rocket Queen still sounds like Rocket Queen. Brownstone still has that swing. Would it have more feel with Steven? Maybe, but the difference would be negligible and not enough to warrant his return.

I wonder what makes a person contribute to a message board and then say “I’m not gonna read what else you all have to say.” You could have just opened a window and shouted your opinions onto the street. And *they* blew it? *They* are touring the world and still playing big venues. The highlight of Steven Adler’s year comes every May when his cover band plays M3 Rockfest in my hometown of Columbia, MD, where a bunch of now-50 to 60 year olds who still have mullets and wear bandanas try and suck their fat asses into some skintight jeans and leather jackets to listen to Adler’s Appetite open up for Kix and Ratt. It’s sad. but yeah, they sure blew it with Steven.

I would love for them to get the early ChiDem lineup together without Axl! They’d likely be playing at my local bar and probably with no cover charge.

Well the guys in the band care. Frank has been in the band for 17 years. Whether you acknowledge that or not is irrelevant. He’s been loyal to Axl, as has Richard, and Axl repays that loyalty, which I find admirable. I know a bunch of online music critics like to criticize Frank’s playing, but that’s all a bunch of GNR fanbase bullshit. The guy plays the gig just fine, he’s a pro, and as much as everyone here likes to blow their load over Steven’s “swing,” there’s no real drop off between Steven and Frank. People talk about Steven Adler like he’s Bonham. ”But fans would love to see him!” Yeah, the fans on these message boards. No one else cares. Your average concert goer has two requirements: Axl must be there, Slash must be there, that’s it. Duff is a sweetener as well. Those are the Big 3. Remove Axl or remove Slash, and this thing goes from half filed baseball stadiums to half filled theaters. Add Steven Adler and…no change to the ticket sales. The time to do that would have been in 2016. 7 years later, it doesn’t matter - even if Izzy and Steven came back tomorrow, the “reunion” has already happened. To diehards the AFD5 are important (though not to me), but to the overwhelming majority of the crowd, they don’t give a shit. Half the fuckers probably think Richard is Izzy anyway, as they have similar looks. So we see it doesn’t make sense from a business point of view. There’s no considerable drop off between Steven and Frank artistically - again, it’s pretty basic 4/4 hard rock. So the only other reason to do it would be for some sort of *personal* benefit - and why would Axl like this guy? He was terribly unreliable in the 80s, hence his firing. He then sued them. He’s done nothing but talk shit about Axl since then. They finally threw him a bone and let him play a song or two with them, and even *that* wasn’t enough. He turned around and slammed them again. So what reason would Axl have to want to play with this guy? Steven Adler expected Frank Ferrer to just…give up his job, because Steven held the job 33 years ago? Frank’s supposed to just wait in the wings and come out and play the Chinese songs and let Adler handle the rest? That’s bullshit. It reminds me of Dave Mustaine, who still complains that Kirk Hammett is in Metallica. It’s pathetic.

I hear what you’re saying, but the Chili Peppers aren’t the greatest comparison. They’ve had consistent radio hits every 2-3 years for about 30 years. Guns N’ Roses hasn’t put anything out in 15 years and nothing off of Chinese Democracy got radio play, so you’re going back to 1992 for the last time the band had a legitimate radio hit. They can’t just come back with any old single - it’s gotta be really good to get anyone’s attention. Black Summer and Tippa My Tongue are standard 21st century Chili Peppers, but they’re catchy tunes, hence the consistent radio play. Perhaps isn’t even on that level. I agree that they should actually *try* to push a single for once, but Perhaps isn’t the one to try it with.

Ugh. As bored as I think Perhaps is, I *loathe* Atlas Shrugged. It sounds like a poppy alt-rock song from the 90s, something like Third Eye Blind. My least favorite kind of music. It’s like a bad Oasis song.

It’s so frustrating listening to stuff like this because for all that’s made of Axl’s relentless perfectionism…Chinese Democracy has some really choppy editing. I love the album, but there are quite a few vocals that cut in and out and are clearly cut and rearranged and pasted. Which is fine - I’m able to enjoy the album - but it just makes me wonder how such a perfectionist could live with that. Even if the label essentially forced him to release it, you’d think there’d be some last minute studio time to get that done.

That's what I thought - I saw that, but I didn't think it was confirmed as a list of guitar settings. I thought that could just as easily have been a list of lighting/audio cues - which would make sense if the instrumental of The General was used on prior tours with NuGuns as an intro. I just figured they kept *everything* for reference purposes, including that.