Ali

Ali, WTF, Subs says explicitly in his post that things change and that his info is as of this moment. What in the world are you arguing about?

I'm trying to clarify that I'm not questioning his honesty or truthfulness, but that his source(s) may be incorrect or that things may change. IMO, he seems to have incorrectly taken that from what I wrote.

Ali

I believe he's handed in his notice (not for the first time though) and Axl's fed up with his "im off, IM BACK! im off IM BACK" routine. I have a feeling Axl will call his bluff at the end of Vegas regardless of another potential U-Turn. I'm also led to believe there's been a major issue behind the scenes during the recent SA Tour and there will be some changes in general. Don't think this should be taken as negative though, depending on your stance actually, far from it.

I'm skeptical given his comments in that recent Video interview where he talked about what songs he'd like to play on future tours.We will see.Ali

Your call dude but I can assure you what's stated there AT IT CURRENTLY STANDS (ie things change!) is the truth from the inside.

No offense, but you were also given information that 2-3 new songs would be played during this cycle of touring, right?So, you have been told something that's turned out not to pass before. Things can change then.Like I said, we will see.Ali

Ha ha ok Ali whatever - go see MSL he'll have all the answers!! I don't state something if I don't believe it to be true or accurate, everyone knows this who knows me.

Same source as SA dates before anyone knew (confirmed dates)... Go figure.

You seem to be misunderstanding me. I'm not questioning your veracity or truthfulness in any way. I never did. My point was if your source or sources gave information that was fundamentally inaccurate or was accurate, but later didn't come to pass, once before, it is possible that could be the case in this or another instance. I'm not questioning you or your belief in the information you've provided. But, as you admit yourself, you are relying on information given to you.

Ali

I believe he's handed in his notice (not for the first time though) and Axl's fed up with his "im off, IM BACK! im off IM BACK" routine. I have a feeling Axl will call his bluff at the end of Vegas regardless of another potential U-Turn. I'm also led to believe there's been a major issue behind the scenes during the recent SA Tour and there will be some changes in general. Don't think this should be taken as negative though, depending on your stance actually, far from it.

I'm skeptical given his comments in that recent Video interview where he talked about what songs he'd like to play on future tours.We will see.Ali

Your call dude but I can assure you what's stated there AT IT CURRENTLY STANDS (ie things change!) is the truth from the inside.

So, you have been told something that's turned out not to pass before. Things can change then.

Like I said, we will see.

Ali

I believe he's handed in his notice (not for the first time though) and Axl's fed up with his "im off, IM BACK! im off IM BACK" routine. I have a feeling Axl will call his bluff at the end of Vegas regardless of another potential U-Turn. I'm also led to believe there's been a major issue behind the scenes during the recent SA Tour and there will be some changes in general. Don't think this should be taken as negative though, depending on your stance actually, far from it.

We will see.

Ali

Seriously.... stop this BS now @gunsnroses!

I feel deeply offended that we fans receive this treatment from whoever is managing that Twitter account.

"GNR Fans sure have a Radar for BS!"... are you implying that WE FANS CREATE THIS BS?? Like we spend our money creating websites that fabricate rumours?

Just because some people echoed this "news" doesn't make them/us criminals or the BShitters themselves. Whoever wrote that, get down from your pony! We're not like that

Do you have any clue on how to deny rumours in a professional way, withouth having to point your 'holier than thou' finger at the fans? As usually you do?

"Love you all" my butt!

No offense, but I think you may have completely misinterpreted the intentions behind the statement. I took it as complimenting the GN'R fans for sensing the RadarOnline story was BS.

Ali

In light of the collapse of Axl's ticket sales, I cannot believe some people can still defend Team Brazil. Here we have Axl's most reliable market, South America, yet Team Brazil have over-projected by, 86,038! 86,038 missing fans - it is a damning statistic! It is a wonder why some of those shows were not cancelled as Nugnr have cancelled shows in North America before for poor sales (of course, they never admit this).

I don't see how you can say they over-projected. There may have been a range of venues and capacities available and the ones they chose were the most suited to what they were expecting to draw.

People will frame this however they want to support their preferred narrative, ultimately.

Ali

Aren't you really contradicting yourself here?

You don't think they over-projected? Well, if they chose from a range of venues and picked the ones "THEY" thought were the most suited to what they were "EXPECTING" to draw...............and at many shows, the venues were half full..............what in the world does the term over-projected mean to you?

Let me be clear: they may not have over-projected. Were there other venues in these locations that could handle the capacity they actually drew, or close to, AND were available?

There may be a few factors to consider. That's all I'm saying.

Ali

I love watching Ali call people out for spinning things to fit their own agenda..........while he does the exact same thing. Classic.

It looks like GnR's management team and touring manager overestimated the size of venues that GnR be performing at.

But, it looks like GnR is still a great draw in some markets. The averages look pretty good, especially for a band that is just living off of its past musical legacy.

Would love to see how a new album would effect those touring numbers.

Nice try, though.

Ali

In light of the collapse of Axl's ticket sales, I cannot believe some people can still defend Team Brazil. Here we have Axl's most reliable market, South America, yet Team Brazil have over-projected by, 86,038! 86,038 missing fans - it is a damning statistic! It is a wonder why some of those shows were not cancelled as Nugnr have cancelled shows in North America before for poor sales (of course, they never admit this).

I don't see how you can say they over-projected. There may have been a range of venues and capacities available and the ones they chose were the most suited to what they were expecting to draw.

People will frame this however they want to support their preferred narrative, ultimately.

Ali

That goes both ways though.

Anyways, I'm actually quite shocked as I've been under the impression these shows either sold out, or were a cunts hair distance from selling out. 64% in their, by far, most prominent market makes for more reason for Axl to just call it a day at this point than not.

I don't agree at all.

Ali

In light of the collapse of Axl's ticket sales, I cannot believe some people can still defend Team Brazil. Here we have Axl's most reliable market, South America, yet Team Brazil have over-projected by, 86,038! 86,038 missing fans - it is a damning statistic! It is a wonder why some of those shows were not cancelled as Nugnr have cancelled shows in North America before for poor sales (of course, they never admit this).

I don't see how you can say they over-projected. There may have been a range of venues and capacities available and the ones they chose were the most suited to what they were expecting to draw.

People will frame this however they want to support their preferred narrative, ultimately.

Ali

Watching all these videos have made me excited for the Vegas shows and also grateful for the fact that they will be indoors and not outdoor in the rain and cold.

Ali

Gotta keep poor Axl cozy & warm.

I was referring more to the weather conditions reported for Rock on the Range.

Ali

Watching all these videos have made me excited for the Vegas shows and also grateful for the fact that they will be indoors and not outdoor in the rain and cold.

Ali

Unlocking this as tickets for one of the theater showings are on sale: http://www.showclix.com/event/gnr3dmovie

Ali

https://twitter.com/dickrogers44/status/467493403203485697

Well next time I think one of you are mean to Axl I'll just look at this post.

Ali

Didn't get around to working on any of my pictures last night, I crashed as soon as I got home. Here's a few for starters, I'll be putting more up tonight after work and over the next few days

I was really unimpressed with the light show at this gig, I thought it was quite a bit under par for GN'R. Lots of reds and yellows, not much of anything else. The spotlights weren't lending themselves to a nice, natural skin tone when they were on someone, they gave a very dull, lifeless hue, and I think it shows in my pictures. I'll keep posting them if you guys like them, but I don't think they're among my best GN'R photos.

Excellent photos. Great work!

Ali

When UMG puts out the press release (supposedly this is 'imminent'), I will believe the date has been set.

And why is it 'Ali from Truth' when they're an active member here too? Always an agenda.

I would've started a thread here, but I thought since you locked the original thread, you wanted to hold off on any discussion until an official statement was made.

Regardless, it's not a bad sign that there is a release date listed. Amazon must have gotten it from somewhere. We'll see whether or not it comes to pass.

no UK release?

It looks like it is listed as an import for now:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Appetite-Democracy-Casino--Vegas-Blu-ray/dp/B00K6D1HSK/ref=sr_1_18?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1400088642&sr=1-18

Ali

how much more are imports than regular blu-rays?

I don't know. I haven't bought many imports. Sorry.

Ali

When UMG puts out the press release (supposedly this is 'imminent'), I will believe the date has been set.

And why is it 'Ali from Truth' when they're an active member here too? Always an agenda.

I would've started a thread here, but I thought since you locked the original thread, you wanted to hold off on any discussion until an official statement was made.

Regardless, it's not a bad sign that there is a release date listed. Amazon must have gotten it from somewhere. We'll see whether or not it comes to pass.

no UK release?

It looks like it is listed as an import for now:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Appetite-Democracy-Casino--Vegas-Blu-ray/dp/B00K6D1HSK/ref=sr_1_18?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1400088642&sr=1-18

Ali

Tommy doesn't want to sing and play... isn't he doing that anyway? Oh wait, we're being trolled.

I took it to mean that specific song.

Ali

9 times out of 10 I see one of her pictures and just think "this could be a cool picture...if it was from a different angle".

I could go in about this and my philosophy on concert photography, but this isn't really the thread for it

for me its, "could have been a cool picture if the subject was properly focused" she does have some cool pics that i like though

... and GNR didn't retweet my photos, I didn't get any notification on my phone, unless they undid the retweet right away? unless you meant GNR as in Ron?

I saw Ron retweet your photos.

You do great work and have a real talent for concert photography. Thanks for the photos.

Ali

The reaction from the fans on this forum is just hysterically over-the-top. It's just savage, wide-eyed, frothing at the mouth stuff.

But I suppose that feels more powerful somehow, than coming on here and saying 'well, it wasn't a great performance ...... it was just pretty average.'

A professional music journalist would never come out with this crap. They are professional, and write with different aims and values in mind - ie, convey ACCURATELY what a gig or album is like. The folk on this forum don't have that aim - they are trying to appear smart, funny, wise-ass, blah blah.......

So it seems to me that the best place to get an accurate feel of how the gig was received would be a more general music forum.

And you guys wonder why Axl isn't keen to release a sequel to Chinese Democracy.

It amazes me how people like yourself can be so utterly clueless to the whole situation had really have no grasp on where the reaction is coming from. People like you act as if the band is incredibly productive, marking out their own legacy post 1994 and that this redundant performance is but a blip on the radar when it comes to the proficiency and domination that this incarnation of GnR is. Honestly pull your head out.

Millions can't see that Axl would be 10x more bashed in a neutral place. Just look at YouTube comments from last night. Revolver removed those videos because the repercussion was too negative.

Perhaps the removal of the videos had to do with the fact that this performance is still set to air on television.

Ali

I do agree it's a shame about the name-calling and jeering because it further fosters that us vs. them, fans vs. haters mentality that exists in the Axl/TB camp. But it also means that any constructive criticism gets lost in a sea of insults and bile.

The problem I see with criticizing someone for an inability to distinguish being critical from hateful is that the way the message is delivered can shape how the message is taken. If your intent is deliver fair and/or constructive criticism and you the vehicle you use to deliver that message is name calling and/or over-the-top rhetoric, your true intent may be obscured by the choice of words.

That's not specifically directed at anyone, but more of a general point that deserves consideration when bringing up that line of thinking presented by HRS.

That's also why I think HRS' explanation is or was somewhat self-serving.

Ali

That's the point I made in my post, as above, and I don't see how HRS is name-calling or being over-the-top in recounting his story of meeting Axl. If Axl literally said he hadn't considered that point before, then I don't see how HRS made it out to be anything more than it was. And it's not the only instance of Axl bemoaning critics. Yes, there were a lot of rags and industry people that just gave him shit after shit for years and years, but there's also people who have given positive reviews while providing criticism.

As I said, that wasn't specifically directed anyone, namely you, but more of a general statement. While you may be grasp that point, I feel that many others here do not and that the point should be given more consideration.

I never said HRS was name-calling.

My point was that in his explanation of mistaking criticism for hate or mistaking the origin of the hate, he didn't consider the fact that how you deliver a message can dictate how your message is taken and ultimately what message is taken. When you put it all on the party on the receiving end, and take no stock of how you may be delivering your message and whether or not it may obfuscate what you're trying to get across, it seems self-serving to me.

That's all I meant. I read what he wrote and realize that he personally did not engage in name-calling. No disagreement there.

Ali

Ya well maybe he does read all this shit and it does affect him one way or another? I dunno, it's way too negative on here & obviously people really don't care. Band or not, he is still a person... just like you & I folks.

I do agree it's a shame about the name-calling and jeering because it further fosters that us vs. them, fans vs. haters mentality that exists in the Axl/TB camp. But it also means that any constructive criticism gets lost in a sea of insults and bile. There's a reason Axl lurks here rather than HTGTH, he knows it's just a circlejerk over there and always will be as long as Jarmo is on his payroll.

This HRS story is one that I believe to be true because it explains a lot about Axl (posted it before but it's relevant):

"i met del once, on the same night i met axl. beverly hills walk of style awards, after playing a small acoustic set. i talked to axl for twenty minutes or so. he was surprisingly candid, talking about frustrations he felt from the record label and resentment he felt towards fans and how they're unfairly critical of him. he talked about being crushingly depressed to the point where he didn't want to leave his house, but he seemed in high spirits that night. he was laughing and seemed to enjoy sharing his thoughts. but del kept interrupting axl, trying to stop him from talking to me. he kept inviting axl to join him in another conversation, and axl would tell him he'd be there in a minute. the third or fourth time del interrupted, axl snapped at him. just told him to buzz off and that he'd find him when he was done. del was absolutely not friendly to me. he would only look angrily in my direction."

"by no means do i think axl was interested in me. he was interested in talking about himself, which he did. i was just someone who listened. i also told him fans resentment made total sense to me, but that it was a product of their love for him, not hate. i explained how as fans, right or wrong, we bond with the art that speaks to us and for us, and the artist who creates it plays a role in our imaginations. especially when we're young. that emotional investment is a double-edged sword though. and i told him how when he vanished and seemingly showed contempt for everyone who loved his stuff, people can't help but feel disappointed or spurned or even insulted. their "hate" was just the obvious and realistic flip side of their love. he heard that and nodded and said he'd never really considered that."

The guy just straight up doesn't understand that being critical doesn't equate to being hateful or spiteful.

I just want people to see the good sometimes in GN'R. Respect where they have come from rather than where they may be going. You have to do that sometimes in life. I watched a little bit of yesterdays awards, and liked it. I had a 15 minute window to watch the best of the highlights, I came to the forums to see what the fans liked the most, and all I read is crap

I do too, but you really have to grasp at straws these days. I had a fun time at the Buenos Aires show but that was mostly because of Duff and the insane SA crowd. Axl gave a decent performance but he lacked that edge and passion that really made the 2010 shows and the 2012 Atlantic City show special for me.

Amir, assuming nothing changes performance-wise during the residency and they don't play Madagascar at all, will you concede that it's maybe because he can't honestly sing it and mean it anymore?

Don't think I've ever disputed that? I do think it's more that it's technically too difficult for him, and also that he sang it at almost every show from Rio 2001 to the 2012 Vegas Residency.

The problem I see with criticizing someone for an inability to distinguish being critical from hateful is that the way the message is delivered can shape how the message is taken. If your intent is deliver fair and/or constructive criticism and you the vehicle you use to deliver that message is name calling and/or over-the-top rhetoric, your true intent may be obscured by the choice of words.

That's not specifically directed at anyone, but more of a general point that deserves consideration when bringing up that line of thinking presented by HRS.

That's also why I think HRS' explanation is or was somewhat self-serving.

Ali

Guys guys guys....

I'm far from an Axl apologist, but compared to the Rio, VMA, and Neil Young disasters, this performance was just fine, at least from Axl. I just don't see what he did to offend so many of you so badly, compared to the utter trainwrecks we've seen via streams or televised in the past. This was a 10/10 compared to fuckin Rio...

I tend to agree.

I was at the first night of the Bridge School benefit, which was the worst performance I've seen in person (yet still not as the-sky-is-falling bad as some made it out to be IMO), and IMO, this was much better than that. Overall, I think it was an average or fair performance (neither good nor bad) compared to what I've seen myself in recent years.

Ali

fuck you guys are so over-dramatic

like a bunch of 14 year old girls

Ali

Jungle was Axl Rose Disaster quality.

Ali

Sounds great so far!