DeathCubeUK

13 hours ago, A.R.S.D. said:

Anyone know what the story is with all the unnumbered lithographs on eBay?

seems to me most are Ulrich Planer ones that are easy to reprint being available from the artist and all

Well, the Santiago 2017 "litho" the seller has for sale has a white border, and the print colours are quite vivid. Whilst the original concert litho was also un-numbered, it had NO border, and the print quality was much poorer/lighter. Make of that what you will.

4 hours ago, fernandoGNR said:

I have a spare Paris, a Bucharest and a Budapest litho if anyone is interested. Feel free to pm me

Hi, it won't let me PM you. Please can you message me? Thanks 🙂 

Some people get what i was trying to say, some go off on a tangent. It's all good. I was going to reply the other day and thought of the opportunity cost of it all wasn't worth my time.

My initial post (without going back and re-reading it verbatum) essentially said "what a bargain, there are Picasso's and Dali's for a similar price". I was the first to say i could be trying to detract people from bidding, or i could be the seller double bluffing @amaninjapan, so no need to go into that debate. I also said i was neither, as i was peiced out way early in the race.

Et tu @troccoli haha! Of all the points Riki was trying to make, you agree with him on the only one nobody was disagreeing with? I never said don't buy a Kobe, it's a poor investment, or that i or anyone buys GN'R items for their potential resale value. I can honestly say i've never sold a Guns N' Roses item to my knowledge. That wasn't my point. 

I thibk we can all agree that like Riki said, the Kobe on ebay has generated more interest in this thread for some time, due to the litho itself (it is a beauty after all), and the gigantic price it is due to sell for.

I know of your kindness Riki, and Tim i am ever so grateful for helping me with shipping on the L&L/Turntable deal. Peace guys..let's hope another few Kobe's make it to the market and get that price down a little (for us mere mortals, just tryin ta make ends meet) ✌😜

21 minutes ago, amaninjapan said:

The only Picassos you're getting for that price are lithographs/prints, not originals. I'm sure there's plenty of claimed original sketches that come with no provenance or proof but you might as well just draw one yourself and save yourself the money.

 

I don't know man, I have an economics degree as well and the first thing you ever learn about economics is that in the real world, there will always be finite resources however the potential for consumer consumption of goods and services has no upper boundary and is for all intents and purposes, limitless. Additionally, you might be able to predict or model human necessity for certain goods or services but it's near impossible to predict or model human desire for goods or services. Something like a poster has value almost solely reliant on that immeasurable thing that is human desire.

And I think you're conflating two things - "Demand for an item" and "Ability to buy an item" - There's 9 bidders on Kobe and at least two of them are willing to pay over $5000 for it (one to bid its current price of $5400 and another to raise the current bid to that amount). Just because there's only (at least) 2 people who can afford to bid that much says absolutely nothing about how many people WANT Kobe. Nevertheless, judging by the comments in this thread, it's at least 2 more people than everyone expected! Just because 99% of people out there can't bring themselves to bid $5k on Kobe doesn't mean that the demand is "not what we tend to believe."

I should also point out that one might claim that demand/interest in GNR lithos might not be as big as we might think - but there has been more posts in this thread in the past two days because of this one Ebay auction than there had been posts in the past six months - for a concert that was held more than three and a half years ago! Maybe the demand/interest for GNR lithos is not immense but the demand/interest for Kobe specifically still seems to burn furiously.

Actually, I don't think it's fair or accurate to think "demand for GNR lithos" and "demand for Kobe" have anything to do with each other. Just because the average demand for a generic Ford on Ebay is low doesn't mean that if a Ford GT40 was listed on Ebay that it wouldn't be in high demand. Kobe has been, since the day after the concert, an outlier for sure. Some 2016 GNR lithos still go for the same price as they did in 2016 on Ebay, other designs have increased significantly in price. Do posters generally hold their value? Hard to say, right? Definitely falls into the "it depends" column. There's more data to work with if you look at Pearl Jam or Dave Matthews Band posters and although I can't say comfortably that they do or they don't, I think it's safe to say that THEY CAN. That iconic Pearl Jam Pittsburgh poster sold recently this year on Ebay for about $2300 and that concert was 7 years ago but it's also seen/traded a lot more frequently than Kobe. Apples and oranges I know but my point was that it's a case-by-case thing and with certain iconic designs, I think there is potential for them to hold higher than average value.

BUT - most importantly - unlike Pearl Jam posters (and this is just my personal opinion) - I do not believe most buyers of the more expensive GNR lithos give too much of a fuck about lithos holding value. I feel like a large amount of them pay the premium simply as payment for the chance to buy it and the opportunity to own it. The same thing happened to me recently when it came to buying a catalog from Ebay. There was a toy catalog from the 1980s that I must have thumbed through a million times and it was just an iconic object of my childhood. No idea what happened to my original catalog but I stumbled across a copy on Ebay for $80. We're talking about maybe something with an intrinsic value of like 10 cents. It's just a catalog. But I checked and it was the only one listed on Ebay, there were none that were recently sold on Ebay and there was nowhere else online that sold a copy. Was this item worth $80? Not a chance. But I was willing to pay $80 for the privilege of owning it. I received it safe and sound, I love it, I wouldn't value it more than 10 cents but the other $79.90 I was happy to pay for the privilege. How much of a lithos price is value that will hold and how much of it is paying for that privilege to own one? Impossible to say. But anybody who has been tracking GNR litho prices on Ebay and (specifically Kobe prices) since 2017 know that one went unsold for $500, then another sold for $2000 and now one is going to sell for $5000+ assuming we don't get hit by a meteorite in the next couple of days. It'd be foolish to be looking at these as investment pieces (I don't they shouldn't be treated as such, but that's just my opinion) but if you really really want one, it seems like the going rate is higher than we all might have tricked ourselves into believing.

@amaninjapan When I say a signed Picasso, I mean exactly that. A signed lithograph or print (which is still "original"). No one is bidding on an oil on canvas of the Kobe lithograph. You're comparing apples with oranges here, not me.

Whilst I respect your standing as a GN'R lithograph collector, we won't agree on all things relating to them. After all, you have a vested interest, being the owner of said litho. 

I agree with your commentary on the unpredictability of human desire by the way, and that we do often just buy things because we want them, not necessarily because they will sell for a profit down the line. There is also the flip side however, such as the Madrid,  Oslo, Chorzow and Copenhagen litho's that have just appeared for a significant mark up (after they were purchased at $55 a few weeks ago from the guy who dumped all those litho's).

My original comment was just based on the overall market for GN'R and their future potential value. When I mentioned Picasso's and Dalì's, I am referring to current values sold at Christie's and Sotheby's, with provenance. Not on ebay with no provenance (do we know the Kobe to be "original"? Are you the seller?). It was just to highlight that there are other things available for that value that would surprise some people when pointed out (which I believe it did).

My other beef was with the economics lecture from Mcs953, as it goes without saying. Perhaps I'm trying to buy the Kobe and I'm trying to put people from here off biddinf for it? Perhaps I'm the seller and it's a double bluff to garner MORE interest?? Just saying..

I'm am neither the former, nor the latter.. it is out of my price range, and it was after a few hours haha!

Peace @amaninjapan If you're ever feeling charitable, i will gladly look after your extra Kobe 😂🤣

2 hours ago, Gavin82 said:

Its nothing too some if you got a few hundred thou or what ever its like when i seen 2 ACDC tixs with BJ go for 20,000Euro on some 2nd site in 2016 some people can drop thousands & not bat an eye lid

I'd want more than just 2 tickets and a BJ for 20 grand 😂🤣

My intuition tells me that the majority of people bidding are not people with a few hundred thousand spare, but i might be wrong.

54 minutes ago, uzi your illusion said:

Jesus you have a good memory lol. When I tried bidding on Kobe the other day my username was blocked by the seller , I remembered after the fact that we had had words previously lol. Had to use my wife's username to start bidding. I guess in retrospect the $2000 would have been a gift. 

Haha, the story had stuck in my mind (not from 3 years ago, but when I re-read bits of the forum a year or two ago). Yeah that $2000ono would have been a steal 😟

1 minute ago, Gavin82 said:

Its all good it comes with FREE delivery 

Haha! I know, that does sweeten the deal a bit 🤣 Imagine if it stayed at $100 until the last half hour, that would have been some entertainment. It would have crashed eBay lol

14 minutes ago, Mcs953 said:

Good for the seller, if the demand is there and people are willing to pay then I guess it is worth that.  Simple economics, low supply, large demand.  Same with gold diamonds etc.  was a Picasso worth big money when he was alive?  Probably not.

Not sure what your point is? I have a degree in Economics so I grasp the supply/demand. Not sure what Picasso prices while he was alive has to do with it in terms of a Kobe though? I suppose that concert is dead, but other than that?

My point was, that as much as I would love a Kobe, it won't hold its value like a Picasso or a Dalì. There are 9 bidders on the Kobe. The demand for GN'R litho's is not what this forum or we tend to believe it is (compared to the artists I mentioned, let's be clear).

Good luck to the seller and the eventual buyer though, we'll agree on that. I hope they pay whatever price it finishes at. 

41 minutes ago, Gavin82 said:

As it stands its on £4195 GBP with 4 days left 

What a bargain hahaha! You can buy signed Picasso's or an original Dalì for less. I noticed the seller is the same as the one in 2017 that wanted $2000 and @uzi your illusion offered $1000 and the seller rejected it/wanted to trade 3 litho's for it (including a signed Cinci).

Remember that @uzi your illusion? This is that same ebayer. How many does he have exactly? As he sold that one in 2017, and the current ad states you have a choice of two numbers, he will keep the other. So that's at least 3, assuming he hasn't sold/traded any others in the last 3 years.

6 hours ago, Blackstar said:

British journalist Paul Elliot had written in Kerrang in 1991 that he had listened to a demo of You Could Be Mine in 1987, when the band was in England for the Marquee shows:

"THE BAND had a rough demo of 'You Could Be Mine’ when they were holed up in Kensington on their first trip to the UK back in the Summer of ’87. Between those famous Marquee gigs, they played a song on a ghetto blaster and sang Axl’s lines in rough harmony. The band are now a little older and a lot richer, but this song is still the same hard bastard, only with cooler guitar breaks" [Kerrang! July 20, 1991].

https://www.a-4-d.com/t3994-1991-07-20-kerrang-singlez-gn-r-latest-news-update-no-illusion-til-september

I remember this too. I remember thinking that must be why they had the famous "bitch slap rapping, cocaine tongue" lyric on the Appetite album

Already so much good input from everyone. 

I second a full 'Perfect Crime' UYI documentary with ideally studio footage.

UYI I & II remastered on 24k gold CD

Previously unheard tracks from the studio (re-mixed/mastered)

Blu-Ray/DVD of a show from each leg of the tour (ones we have never seen)

10 random boxes contain a hidden rarity. E.G. Axl's handwritten lyrics, Slash strings from the recordings, Cassette with unheard song only available in that box, DVD of a show only available to you etc

Lastly - I want a pair of Axl's trainers 🤟

31 minutes ago, Gavin82 said:

TM have Emailed everyone saying UK shows were postponed & im guessing EU had same Email.

As time goes on these shows are getting more unlikely they are waiting too see how this plays out im sure

I can assure you I didn't receive notification of Glasgow being postponed.

I had an email specifically regarding the Tottenham concert on 29/05 saying it had been postponed and that they would update me. There was no mention of Glasgow as I believe they (TM) were (at that time) hoping it could go ahead (imagine!).

I contacted them last night and they sent me an apology this morning as I attached all my emails from them in the correspondence. They have now sent me a link for refunds, but their communication has been abysmal.

3 minutes ago, BrayWyatt said:

Glasgow will not be rescheduled for anytime this year, we are 3 weeks behind cockneyland  in lockdown measures. Wee nippy won't allow crowds anywhere in Scotland this year.

Thank you, yes I didn't mean for this year, as I wouldn't attend a concert this year anyway. I just mean if it was rescheduled for 2021 or even 2022 I would have just kept the ticket, but TM haven't even emailed me to say it's cancelled. The last email I have from them is when I bought the tickets on 29/01! I did laugh at wee nippy though 🤣

On 13/06/2020 at 10:18 AM, Gavin82 said:

Yeah had London tixs via TM trust me on this bookimg Any shows for nx year is a MASSIVE gamble & these bands are risking loads of ££££ on depoists if it was me id not risk it as i just cant see 80k people being stood around Shoulder too shoulder any time soon

Sorry just seen this. Thanks man, i know what you mean, it's definitely a gamble and not sure how i even feel about a large crowd until this situation improves drastically. I just thought i would wait as i had presale GC tickets and didn't want to lose out if it was rescheduled soon.

It now looks less likely so will see what happens. Strange i've not had any communication regarding Glasgow yet.

30 minutes ago, Gavin82 said:

Ive had my refund £410 had my Email yesterday took 2wks too process use the link in the London thread 

Everyone has re booked dates P Jam RATM The Who Queen & AL The killers Stomzy & Iron M 

GnR just want too keep our ££££ as long as poss all that interest

Was your refund for London or Glasgow? I had an email regarding London but choosing to wait for them to reschedule, but not heard anything about Glasgow.

Also, i had Leeds Festival day tickets for RATM and no news on them rescheduling that, so a lot depends on the venue i think. Thanks 

On 07/04/2020 at 1:22 AM, axlvai said:

Reading 2010. SUPERB VOICE!!

I was at two of these (almost 3, Leeds not Reading 2010). I would say Download 2006 would be the best. There are already some pro shot songs of this out there (aired on Download TV/Sky Arts at the time) and the full set included Izzy on around 4 songs (including Paradise City) and Sebastian Bach on My Michelle. Plus major Axl and Tommy rants (Tommy threw his bass and it hit a security guard, Axl slipped during Sweet Child, stormed off), as well as Brain on drums. Axl's vocals here were amazing (was around the time of Rock Am Ring). It had it all. They even started 10 minutes early!!

Amazing guys!!! I'm excited too. Looking forward to listening to these. Excited to hear your stories on getting into GN'R too. Well done both @troccoli @amaninjapan 

2 hours ago, Axlr0s37 said:

I was actually talking to my mate who goes to Download every year about this. He reckons he has never seen it as busy or full up as it was for GNR. He's been to every download and went to a few monsters of rock. Donnington is his mecca! 

He hates GNR, but loved their show. 

Well that speaks volumes. I'm admittedly a huge GN'R fan, so could be biased. But your friend has been to every Download and not particularly a fan of GN'R and can verify it.

I went to MOR in 1996 (My first concert at 15!), and the capacity was way less then. Although some sources say GN'R didn't sell out etc.. It's because capacity was the highest they'd ever allowed, and they filled it to the hilt. Never seen it like that, ever. Seen GN'R there in 2006 (when it was in the track), but again capacity was less back then. Glad your friend was converted for one night :-)

My friend used to hate GN'R and particularly Axl until we seen them at Leeds Festival in 2002. He's been a huge fan since that night (particularly of Axl lol).

Just a note on GN'R at Download on the Saturday. I've been to a fair few Download Festivals, and that Saturday was way busier than I've seen for other bands. The closest to it was AC/DC in 2010, but GN'R had more people there. They have increased capacity at Download consistently over the years, and audience figures are always inflated (I.e. they never allow for people in the campsites/village/other stages etc). But crowd wise, it has never been that full. Let's not forget, no other bands played while GN'R played their last 2.5 hours or so, so practically everyone in the arena was Main Stage.

1) Perfect Crime

2) Better

3) Dead Horse

4) Nightrain

5) Patience

6) Locomotive

7) Hardschool

8) Rocket Queen

9) You Could Be Mine

10) Hair Of The Dog

11) Madagascar

12) Welcome To The Jungle

13) There Was A Time

14) Born In The USA (Springsteen)

15) Paradise City (Live Era)

4 hours ago, k12 said:

When I tried to add 5,000 locked and loaded's to my cart it says only 18 available, not sure if that is all that is left or they just put a low number to entice people to buy it

There may only be 18 left on their site. Although I think there were many unsold at first, due to the high price, since the prices have steadily fallen, there will be fewer of these unsold than you might think.

There are plenty of die-hard GN'R fans worldwide. I've seen these in record shops etc. Any in record shops (physical or online) are technically sold, as they have purchased it to re-sell. Like when Best Buy purchased so many copies of Chinese Democracy.

I live in a town of 60,000 in the North West of England, and there are at least 3 owners of one in my town.

I honestly think after the recent sale of the individual items, that there aren't as many remaining as you might think.

At current prices, it is actually a good deal. Just my 2 cents.

I remember an article linking Igor Cavalera to GN'R back in the day. I was speaking to Joey Jordison about it in 2002 when he was touring with Murderdolls, and he said he had also been asked!

He said a lot of big names were asked at the time, some auditioning, some not. Would love a 'Some Kind of Monster' style documentary showing the auditions from back then. 

AAAAARGH, it's impossible...but here goes! TOP 5 GN'R SONGS..

Estranged (Best song of any band)

Nightrain (Best live song by far)

Breakdown (Love the intro, outro, solo)

One In A Million (Axl's vocals)

Dead Horse (Vocals, solo, drum fills, that NUTCRACKER!!) 

(Live songs that would light a rocket up the set lists ass: Locomotive, Breakdown, Dead Horse, Get In The Ring, Perfect Crime, Hardschool, Perhaps, Shotgun Blues, Don't Damn Me, Hair of The Dog, I.R.S., TWAT, Back Off Bitch) .. one can dream lol

3 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

That’s really helpful.  And what I feared! I see Amazon have dropped it by about $12 so maybe if I wait until 2020 it will be cheaper if they reduce it every couple of days! 😂

Being serious, I have wait this long so what’s an extra bit of waiting? Although I see they have Amazon Warehouse sales for $399 - but the information is sparse as to what packaging is not original...will maybe chuck them a message and see what I can find out! 👍

Yes unfortunately I even contacted Music Vaultz and GNR.ca at the time to see if they would ship it cheaper, and every time I contacted them, digital sales uk responded. Was really weird. When I finally got through to MV and .CA they said shipping was fixed.

If like Russ's link to What HiFi shows, the GN'R turntable is being released here in April, it might be worth seeing if they do a similar bundle for the UK (or asking GNR.co.uk if they will try and bring the price somewhere towards the Canadian deal). 

Good luck with it mate 👍 If you are able to get the turntable with it, do it, it's really awesome!

18 minutes ago, DTJ80 said:

Did anyone in the U.K. buy from Music Vault in Canada? I see them mentioned in the thread and they are doing the turntable deal at about £470. Just wondered how much it cost to ship to U.K. as I would need to register an account to find out?

Hi mate. I can't figure out how to post photo's but I used Music Vaultz, but I had it shipped free to troccoli in the US, and he shipped it to me here in the UK, which saved my bacon with costs.

Unfortunately, MV charge CDN $549.78 to the UK, so total comes to $1399.77 (£800).

It's still a £425 turntable and the L&L box set for £375, but you will probably have to pay import charges. I was charged for the turntable but not the box set..go figure!

Hope this helps 👍