denin

On 5/15/2021 at 12:56 AM, BangoSkank said:

Based on his interview at the '06 VMAs I always thought it was anxiety that caused him to feel overwhelmed/overextend himself/lose his breath. 

Ax left leaving for the venue for too long, again. Must've been a Kodak moment when he decided to dive out of the car and get chased by first his handlers and then venue security.

So, he runs / jogs / huffs for a few blocks, gets in, gets mic'ed up... I doubt there was any time for him to let it all sink in, that here he is, debuting his new lineup. Let alone voice warm-up...

The same routine of avoidance & procrastination as it was with the concerts, only there he could let them wait some more after showing up to the venue. Nerves more than stamina, really.

21 hours ago, mystery said:

Wonder what Axl looked like in 08? He disappeared during that year even though Chinese Democracy released. I wonder at what point exactly he ditched the cornrows (if he still had them in 08/09). 

Since you asked... Jan 2009 is what I heard. It was supposed to be a simple re-do, but his hair had gotten a bit fucked up.

"Bad hair day" was a bit of an understatement, if you catch my drift.

21 hours ago, Nice Boy said:

2006 was the last time he looked in decent shape, went bad after that but looks better facially since 2016 though still a bit overweight but that's common for a man his age.

In fairness, he was pretty much the same during the 2007 tour.

Between that and late '09 was the first lapse, from which he bounced back somewhat on the road. Heavy on the hooch, tho.

Between Dec 2010 (AU/UAE leg) and October 2011 (the infamous RIR show), he kept up the drink, apparently.

Any comment on psychic evaluations of potential employees' photographs, and the prominence & influence of such consultants (the Maynards, et al), going all the way back to the UYI days? Still standard practice?

Riad and the Bedouins hints at your former brother-in-law, an arms smuggler, and ChiDem, apparently, contrasts Mao's China with Axl's Guns. Was it ever your intention to write lyrics for both songs more explicitly about human right violations or criticism towards the military-industrial complex, as you did with Civil War?

Ever felt like you took the whole thing way too seriously?

The vid posted in this thread earlier was Ron playing a few numbers with his opening act. This is from his actual solo slot, the one he cut short.

At least Ron looks like he's making the effort, there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J59MJxmOqNM

16 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Sebastian basically said Axl called him and asked who his coach was, Sebastian gave him a cd of himself singing the warm ups (apparently he still uses that cd to this day), and then Axl decided to go and see the vocal coach. The way Sebastian said it was that it was in preparation for the tour, so I'd say you're right! Hammerstein was May 2006? and the long Euro tour kicked off in June?

Basically, yeah. Four shows in NYC (during which time Ax already lost his voice once, cue the coach), before rolling into a summer tour in Europe. Funny enough, Axl's considerations on his pre-tour fitness at the time had gone into figuring out "how to move to those songs". Read from it what you will, but the idea of Cornrow jumping around in front of a mirror to the beat of Jungle is pretty funny.

On 4/26/2021 at 8:47 PM, Tom2112 said:

If Axl is ever going to be motivated again then it's now when he's been forced off the road for the almost 2yrs. Last time he was motivated was 2006 and he got Sebastian Bachs vocal coach to help him get into shape, and he sounded incredible. I very much doubt he's in that mindset. 

IIRC, Baz' vocal coach was initially rushed in to help get Axl's voice back in shape after the first one or two Hammerstein shows. Mr Motivation's pipes had proven to be a tad rusty.

On 4/25/2021 at 4:58 AM, Sosso said:

Because that's not how Axl works. The contributions are more important than the status of a band member.  

Josh Freese, Brain, Bucket, Brian May & Robin would like to have a word with you.

8 hours ago, allwaystired said:

I think I remember it yeah. Was that the one that looked a bit like a ghost on a screen? I wonder what was going on? As you say, it did seem like something was. 

Yeah, that's the one. Dec 2014, to be exact. Stay of Execution era. Both took a pic of the mixing desk with their respective phones and tweeted them after an apparent all-night session.

On 4/7/2021 at 5:55 AM, TeeJay410 said:

I remember 2006 being the hottest and closest we had ever been to it happening, with even more and greater credible sources saying it was real. I would love to hear what happened there.

It was. In 2006, no real label support, no album, lack of cash limiting gear and crew options & marketing... Touring over mortgage, while the band manager is using his position as CEO of Sanctuary Records (apt name) to bankroll CD. 

Ross Halfin aired a Slash comment at the time about Guns management (Merck & Beta) re:GH2. Essentially, he felt they made it hard for him to have a word with Ax. Slash wanted Ax to call him up, to suss things out, without lawyers or middlemen.

Guns settled for just Izzy guesting here and there, and he sure took his share of the loot. 

On 4/7/2021 at 3:21 PM, allwaystired said:

It would probably take an actual photo of them in a recording studio to make me think anything was going on now. Vague and elusive comments that are open to interpretation have been de rigueur for too long now. 

In 2015, Pitman tweeted (and Ax retweeted) a vague and elusive studio pic. Remember that one?

Something was probably going on. The Guns Co. is a big business & IP. Lots of proposals, initiatives, etc.

Whether those plans and efforts come through is another thing entirely.

Ax has, or has had, the habit of spending a lot of his own money on the band so that he may accomplish nothing with it.

No-one can argue, second-guess or push him to do fuck all. He owns the name, he funds the operation out-of-pocket if needs be.

No-one else is entrusted with real political power in the outfit. Things cannot be 'done' with any certainty in his absence.

And he can't be arsed to release new music, probably because the imagined reception of the punters throws him into anxiety, depression, and/or anger. People around him may breach the topic once a year, before backing down again.

And the train keeps a-rolling...

I dreamt I visited his house once. Beta let me in and I found Ax hunched over a table in the kitchen.

He had an oversized jersey as well as oversized bags under his eyes.

Ax didn't say much, but I felt sorry for him. It was as if I was looking at a decades worth of condensed CD stress.

14 hours ago, gnrjanus said:

Managers went wrong. 

Robin leaving straight after the release must have hurt a lot. 

Yup. Axl said (or, insinuated) that Azoff pushed Robin out to make room for Slash.

Not that Axl's reclusive ways and apparent lack of band member communication off-road had anything to do with it.

Axl's repeated mortgages going back to 2002 suggest, for one, that the label did not sponsor the (albumless) tours.  Meanwhile, he wanted a succession of grand stages & venues for his return. There's an obvious need hire a host of people & rent a truckload of gear. Or two.

"Every manager comes in and wants me to make things smaller," says Rose. Guns N' Roses, for example, requires twice as many tour trucks as the budget calls for, he says. Why no one else can understand the band's needs is an obvious frustration for Rose." - 2012 LA Times

See, Axl wants to tour BIG. No point leaving the house (in the care of the bank) otherwise. Add in his reknown timekeeping, and you'll have him on a red-eye flight straight into a riot instead of a show. Being his tour manager must be hilarious.  

Axl well and truly missed the boat to game the system: he could've put out three albums between '99-'07, tour the lot of them, and milk the market pre-financial crisis. Arguably, the sales would've dropped somewhat on each successive album, while the sound could've progressed from classic rock with synthethic layers to a funkier rhythm and more avant-garde effects. But it would've been his art, his way.

When the album did come out in 2008, the revenue streams had already shifted to touring. Enter Irving Azoff, the BestBuy dealbroker. They had a ball together - one month, Axl fired and hired him 3 times. As well as managing Axl, Azoff was the head of Front Line Management, which had been bought by Ticketmaster in '08. To say that Azoff had vested interests in getting Axl to tour was an understatement.

"Rose claims that through Azoff's control of the "trifecta" of artist management, concert and touring promotion, and ticket sales, Azoff has been able to gain wide influence and power in the music industry. Azoff allegedly decides what artists he wants to promote through favorable touring deals and uses his power to punish artists and harm their careers if they don't follow his orders." - Axl's lawsuit on Azoff

'All these managers, they all believe in one thing: sell a reunion tour and get their commission. It's just a phone call. It's a half a day's ... work, or however long they want to keep the bidding war going. They get their commission and they don't care if it falls on its face.'

"We decided, 'No more managers,'" said [Beta] Lebeis a few days after the Seattle concert. "Between me and Fernando and my daughter, we're dealing with the management." Lebeis added that she characterizes Rose as "more than a son to me," and that after [Peter] Katsis' departure, "I told (Rose) if he hires another manager, I quit." - 2012 LA Times

When Axl says there are cutthroat managers out there willing to cash in as the ones who secure a NITL-level tour, he's not kidding. It's big money for them and the artist is fairly inconsequential in that equation.

Axl is on legal record to say Azoff went on, 'breaking the current lineup'. In other words, Axl thinks Azoff pushed Robin out, in hopes of bringing Slash back. In March '09, they both settled for DJ as the quasi-Slash. Wonder if the top-hat was Irving's idea. Would've gone swell with the Guns/Van Halen tour.

"In 2009, Azoff repeatedly advised the band that he had arranged a stadium concert tour with [Van Halen, another Azoff client]... Rose began planning and preparing for the tour. Relying on the manager's representations, Rose obtained advances and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on tour arrangements, planning and budget, marketing, rehearsals, hiring personnel, and other out-of-pocket expenses."

The above sounds like another re-mortgage, as you folks have speculated.

"Guns N' Roses was also planning to do a summer European tour before the Van Halen stadium tour... However, [Azoff] told Rose not to go forward with the summer European tour because they were afraid that Guns N' Roses would not return in time for the Van Halen stadium tour. So the band decided to forego the European tour... resulting in substantial losses."

Despite Azoff apparently being such a torrent of negativity and falsehood, Axl kept him on until Oct 23rd, 2009 - and you know what? Irving resigned, he wasn't fired. He booked the Asian dates in 2009, including back-to-back shows at the Tokyo Dome.

"This decision was made so that the promoter would earn more money on the concerts. The band lost $1.3 million as a result of the last-minute cancellation."

Then again, the one show Axl did play at the Dome (Dec 19) set a new record as the longest show in Guns' history.

Axl's motivated by money, alright, by the idea of burning through it.

Hey Liva, that's all very interesting - thanks for sharing.

I took a look at what we know was going with the band/Axl around those times. Of course, any given date is somewhat incidental, as there's a larger economical framework to consider. Axl obviously took the mental steps to re-mortgage his house (again & again) before the official paperwork was shuffled around. But they should contextualize it some.

- 3/1/2002 - $2,000,000

After the New Years shows in Vegas, about six months before their big tentative comeback with a ClearChannel sponsored tour.

- 6/5/2003 - $2,400,000

About six months (to the day!) after the CC tour imploded in the wake of a glorious MSG show.

- 9/29/2005 - $3,510,000

This one came after Geffen/Interscope had cut funding (early 04) and the band had relocated from the Village to Curt Cuomo's studio.

Axl had also been just sued by S&D over the publishing rights of the back catalog (he had leased his share to Sanctuary Publishing in Jan '05 for 20 years, receiving about $1M per annum).

- 5/31/2006 - $4,320,000

On this day, Guns played in Budapest, Hungary. It was the third date of Axl's first major Euro-tour in over a decade. Costly ventures.

Also, this bodes well with rumors about Merck not having had enough money to promote the '06 tour properly. (His later statement, 'I found the money and the motivation to keep Axl and the band alive...' comes out a bit different now, eh?)

- 7/5/2006 - $500,000

On this day, Guns played in Helsinki, Finland. Good show, Ax. Either touring is costly, or maybe he had recent bills in Sweden (biting a hotel security guard :) ).

- 2/23/2007 - $5,525,000
 
Remember that Del James update that CD has been recorded and the band is currently mixing it? It was posted on the GNR website on the preceding day (Feb 22nd).

 
- 4/23/2007 - $500,000

This one happened a few days before the rescheduled 2007 tour was announced, following Tommy's wrist injury. They had had dates lined up in Japan and ZA for April/May.

On 1/20/2021 at 7:33 PM, WayTooManyOstriches said:

A few people have mentioned southern rock and I remember Slash one time made a comment about how Axl didn't like some of the songs he offered for the follow up to The Spaghetti Incident, saying they were southern rock.

Jizz Da Pit on IFOCS, I think.

Axl called it "Red Neck".

On Rhiad, Axl set out to write a song about his former brother-in-law profiteering by smuggling weapons to global hotspots, and by the end of the first verse, he instead decided to write about his own mental health, once again. 

Maybe we got the censored edition, replacement lines thrown together in a fit? Otherwise, it's a lost opportunity like SilkWorms. 

What happened in Abu Dhabi 2010? Good question, as talking points include

Axl's vague mention about the show in the Eddie Trunk/TMS interview in 2011. ('We really got screwed over in Abu Dhabi...')

Band promoting the show on a video shot in a hotel aisle. Axl mostly holds the mic, Dizzy rambles about locking himself out of his room.... while a very inebriated-looking Tommy lurches in the background.

Tommy's tweet post-show. "being pushed to the end of ones rope for so long will make you a good climber, or road kill. i'm gonna find a new tree"

Sounds vaguely like promoters holding back on some monies, which consequently leads to band members not getting paid in full and on time for services rendered.

On 12/15/2020 at 5:36 AM, Sydney Fan said:

Thank god that never eventuated. Have no idea why axl thought zakk would work in the band.....in terms of skill and personality. Sounds like axl was throwing mudd at a wall, in terms of different players, and seeing what would stick rather than really thinking who would be the appropriate player in the mould of izzy and gilby.

I think Slash played live with Pride & Glory in late '94, and in Jan '95 the Guns sessions happened. Zakk's contract with Ozzy was expiring at the time. Ozzy concluded that Zakk's manager had orchestrated all that Guns affinity around Zakk to raise his market value. Why not, that manager was Doug Goldstein.

Dave sure was impressed with Robin. He talks about Axl fondly, having developed some good rapport over several months on the phone, before Dave even played with the band. Other than that, he talks about how Axl wanted to go "under the deck" in '97, to focus on the lawsuits around the band. Meanwhile, Dave was to lead the Robin/Paul/Duff/Chris Vrenna (Pod)/Dizzy crew in his stead, to keep CD's preproduction humming.

Dave balked at the responsibility and sent Ax a fax, just to be sure his sentiments were worded correctly. A few hours later, Kim Neely from Rolling Stone calls in to check if Dave's alright, saying she'd just got off the phone with Axl. (Neely wrote the 1992 RS article about Axl, wherein he talked about regressional therapy and other esoteric things). Dave's phone rings again, and sure enough, this time it's Axl. He goes on a two-hour scream rant, in which Dave "was a Dark Lord, sent to keep him [Axl] from bringing light to the world..."

Dave put the phone on the table and finally pushed 'off' on the dial. Axl obviously took it well. "I heard he pushed a couple of thousand gallon fish tank over."

If they're full of shit to begin with, spending three hours in the john in want of a release may be a good start.

“I did meet Axl in a couple of clubs, a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, and I’d bump into him and I’d have that talk,” Tyler said on Stern’s SiriusXM show...

Tyler said he had also brought up the issue with Slash, and agreed with Stern that the GN’R guitarist had been more open to a reunion than the frontman. As to what caused one of the deepest rifts in rock history, Tyler wouldn’t divulge any details. “I get the whole thing,” he said, noting the feud went much deeper than brotherly betrayal or a clash of egos.

“I can only hope that Axl sees that the greater picture is to not be angry at Duff or Slash, and for Axl to understand that he’s the lead singer of a great band,” Tyler said. “And the world wants to see Axl with the original band.” - RS.com

Deeper? To begin with, Slash & Duff were both in the band, as contract players, in '96. The rift grew deeper after they left. Slash in particular was then bombarded by the music press about all things Guns. Combine his hurt with alcohol and you get juicy statements, alright. Add in the fact that press loves controversy and conflict - that captivates readers. Axl stays silent, while comments by Slash and others are recycled, ultimately dropping context. Fans left wanting get to read what an asshole Ax appears to be, over and over again. That he and he alone is to blame for ruining the old Guns.

The 'Axl ruined the band for everyone' narrative really got under his skin over the years. That upped the pressure to make CD something special - the best hard rock album ever. While Axl (undoubtedly) always wanted to make an ambitious album, his unfavorable portrayal in the media only fueled his desire, along with anxiety & indecisiveness. Part of the CD agenda was to backslash Slash; I bet he was, in many strange ways, a huge inspiration for the album in ways he never intended to be.

Think About You was a setlist staple for a long time, from HOB 01/01/01 onwards.

Back then, a lot of folks deemed it as filler (although the CD band rendition was cracking).

On 11/2/2020 at 9:00 PM, Ratam said:

He bullied to Bumble too.

Tommy yanked everyone's chain. He showed up to Brain's audition and put his jacket on Brain's mic stand. Paul Tobias showed some 'Guns attitude' early on and Tommy had none of it. On both counts, Tommy had a point. Brain hadn't even bothered to rehearse the Guns songs they were supposed to do. Paul was still an unproven quantity, in Guns and otherwise.

Tommy had to stare down all sorts of wannabe rock stars who crawled in for an audition. If he took novelty chicken buckets as pretentious, he said it out loud. He was workmanlike, and a bit of a rube next to high-flying sensitive types like Robin or Bucket. In a way, he was doing many hopefuls an early favour - the Guns gig would prove tough for them, for a lot of reasons. The bassist at his most detestable was a sweetheart next to the rampaging frontman.