denin

The answer was more entertaining in the 90's.

"Oh, Ax just broke every mirror in the house overnight with his VMA statue and pushed his grand piano through the scenery window. He's asleep now, so the help needs to keep quiet."

Imagine hanging out at his house at the time. Nice atmosphere.

Fortus tells pretty much the same story as Ron did after he left the band. Two guitars turn into a three at a day's (weeks?) notice before the 2006 Hammerstein shows. Axl's trademark HR skills at work there. "Liking" the two-guitar sound and leading the band into thinking that's the touring lineup. Meanwhile, Cornrow & co. were chasing Bucket up until the last minute. There were also ruminations about auditioning guitar players in New York, which may even have happened without the backing band's knowledge. I would guess that's all because the three-guitar concept was deemed vital for CD songs. They could do the back catalogue with two gtrs, but Axl wanted to have Bucket's parts played live - while Finck & Fortus were doing theirs.

The same kind of recruiting shambles went on before RIR3. Robin had left and Bucket was in. Suddenly, Robin comes back and Axl goes, "Guess this is a three-guitar band, then!" Just that, those kinds of last-minute reversals really tear into people. Imagine you'd be a replacement member in a big band and after laborious rehearsals, things shift dramatically at the 11th hour and the boss tells you to deal with it. Accommodate the new guy, re-think everything you've worked for the past several months. No pressure.

Such antics strain the employees' trust. The boss is a flake and the show's on him - the joke's on you. As mentioned in this thread, classic Ax. Dizzy and Paul came in the same way.

On 8/3/2020 at 4:03 AM, Blackstar said:

Yes. When Steven said he was going to start a band with Andy McCoy (they were neighbours), he had been practically fired and GnR were already rehearsing with Matt, but they still kind of kept in touch with Steven and kept an eye on him. Then, not long after, the speedball incident with Erin happened, and Steven and Andy McCoy (and his wife, who was Izzy's ex-girlfriend) accused each other, so they didn't work together eventually. So Steven had already been fired before the Erin incident happened, but that probably completely shut the door on any chance for Steven to go back to GnR at some point (if he could sober up).

In her own words, Angela McCoy dated Izzy for 3 years ('85-88). They started out by living in her parents' house and Izzy's "eccentric" behaviour spooked her father to no end. From there, they moved into a shared place with Axl, of all people, for 6 months, before finally getting their own apartment. She broke up with Izzy because "the money went into his head", while going from deadbeat to millionaire.

Angela hooked up with Andy at a Stones gig in '89 (possibly one of the four shows opened by Guns). Her habit had gradually developed during her years with Izzy, and would get worse with Andy in the times to come.

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In a 2006 interview with the Metal Sludge website, Adler denied giving Everly drugs, claiming that he was jamming in his house with Hanoi Rocks guitarist Andy McCoy when McCoy’s wife turned up with an already intoxicated Everly: “I called the ambulance and saved her,” claimed Adler, “[and] this bitch [McCoy’s wife] tells Axl I gave her heroin. He calls me up and says he’s coming over with a shotgun to kill me…”

One addict blames the other about the one that OD'd...

On 18.7.2020 at 7:19 PM, mamundson said:

Embarrassing went out the window with this band in the 90s. Announce the release of a new album or announce retirement.

90s? Nah, there was still a benefit of doubt and a palpable effort to create.

We're currently supposed to Stay tuned... again.

22 hours ago, Rovim said:

I think that 1 - Gn'R meant too much for Axl to not focus all of his attention on trying to make it as great as it can possibly be and 2 - after Izzy and Slash quit, maybe his frame of mind was to continue Gn'R on his own with new members, proving he doesn't need them and also maybe he saw it as his responsibility to keep the band alive.

I'm not talking about the outcome or if it was the right or smart decision. Just why I think it ended up the way it did. Sometimes it's easy to look back and see where it all went to shit but when you're in the middle of it in real time, it's different.

Hindsight is 20/20, and there were various variables at play, too.

In '94, Axl was still talking up his courtesy solo album, an option made available to all three key members. Slash then does maybe-Guns songs on the Snakepit album (the outrage!). He's yanked back from tour in '96, because Axl's disbanded the partnership and wants to write & record with Guns. That really broke the band and - I'd go as far to say, Axl's method, too.

I look at CD, particularly in the early days, as the "solo" album Axl had originally wanted to do with his own supergroup (Reznor, Grohl...). Communication breakdowns (w/ Slash) and drunken slurs to the press (by Slash) boiled him over, as he was already freaked out by the lawsuits he was being served left and right.

The Axl album and CD could've co-existed just fine, only Axl's takeover in '96 soured any such ideas and melded these two projects together. Axl may have originally wanted to pile up his solo album from bits & pieces, have that synthetic sound, have points of reference to present to the rest of Guns. Only it went ass-backwards and they ended up as the hired hands on his vanity album.

16 hours ago, WhazUp said:

I always equated Axl to a George Lucas type. 

Vision without a practical clue and held upright by his cohorts? Yup.

Axl's no Brian Wilson. He should've gone the route of Prince and Bowie, churning out a whole lot of experimental music under his own name.

Instead of putting all his eggs in one basket, he could've had a respectable solo career, maintained by the odd Guns album/tour cycle with Slash.

This would've also brought new, field-tested Axl ideas to the Guns sound, keeping it fresh and interesting as musical landscapes shifted. But it is what it is.

1 hour ago, Scream of the Butterfly said:

There's no denying the misogyny and I suppose I've always had mixed feelings about GNR because of it, although the stories of Sheila Kennedy and Little Michelle only came to my attention in recent years. Still, I wouldn't say that is all there is to GNR. I might like Civil War, Coma and November Rain even if I don't like It's So Easy or Used To Love Her. At one of the shows I attended there were some girls who were only there to hear November Rain. That is as valid a position as any.

Kill your heroes is an old saying which remains true. Artists are often people damaged to a degree, bellowing out gut emotion, which is then removed from its social context.

What you receive is that same honest emotion, which may then resonate in you. The longer you look at the artist tho, the more profane they seem next to their masterpieces.

Whether you listen to Guns (and feel dirty about it) or switch to more dignified artists, that's your call. If you ask me, good music is where you find it. Due diligence can be overthinking it.

How it went in 2002 -

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Whatever really happened, Rose and Clear Channel could end up locked in a costly legal battle. The five-day delay in announcing the tour's cancellation (individual dates were nixed along the way) may have signaled a reluctance from both the band and the promoter to take responsibility for pulling the plug, according to Bongiovanni, who says that whoever made that decision could end up owing the other side money. ''I think lawyers are talking to lawyers,'' he says. One thing is clear: The promoter incurred financial losses from Rose's two no shows.  - HTGTH

12 hours ago, allwaystired said:

Jarmo replied to someone asking if there were any updates.....not sure what to make of his response. 

No.

For example, Firenze Rocks is still not postponed

Someone should tell J that the Sweden Rock Festival (a 06/06 show) has already been postponed to 2021 by the promoter.

1 hour ago, CAFC Nick said:

It must be an insurance thing. My brother was due to get married in April and would’ve been liable fully if he had cancelled it rather than the venue. Feels like similar to this, they need to wait for the festival/venue to tell them it’s postponed/cancelled. Feels like a weird version of brinkmanship.

Bingo. The Euro leg will almost certainly be postponed. But I´d imagine every promoter involved needs to say yes so that insurance claims can be made. After that, Guns can publicly state the obvious (not touring until July, at least).

Sucks for the fans, but so it goes.

The same Matt Sorum

who jumped at the chance of turning Guns demos into Snakepit songs, only to side with Axl over Slash when Snakepit became an issue with the Guns camp.

who came to tee-total Guns rehearsals with a drink, hoping to spark a response, and valiantly stormed out after some Slash-related shouting with Axl & Paul Tobias.

who self-admittedly reached out to the Guns camp numerous times since, asking to be let back in, while continuing his off the cuff public remarks about Axl. 

now feels burned for being left out of the reunion. Too bad for Matt, Axl always liked his drumming. Had Matt played along like Dizzy, he could've been on CD. And NITL.

In Philly, Axl had an incentive. He wanted to erase some riot memories.

What's to say? They're in it for the money. Only in 2015 did all parties come to an agreement about some things.

They do it for themselves, and probably kicked themselves hard after recession hit their line of work. You don't carry your own PA in Guns, right?

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

I believe that it takes some time to book a tour

With a band this big, it can quickly be 2-3 months for itinerary & contracts and another 2-3 months for presales.

That's six months of varying types of (office) work before they belt out the old hat setlist all over again.

Plus, there's likely ongoing talks with various promoters who want seconds (or thirds) out of the NITL pie.

Guns get money thrown at them from these people, whereas an album today is an excuse to tour.

Apparently no-one with a say thinks CD2 (or some such) would boost ticket sales much further.

Fans expect the new "something" for 2020.

Axl does You're Crazy.

He certainly connects with his fans like no other.

48 minutes ago, estrangedtwat said:

Yeah, and Dizzy's mom confirmed that Chinese Democracy was for sure definitely 100% being released in 2003.

May have been his aunt, but I hear ya.

After CD, Guns fans should know better than to read tea leaves, I guess.

Bland would've made more sense to audition in Jan '98,  just before Josh joined, rather than Jan '97, with Matt (and Duff) still in the band.

But he mentions Anaheim, and NAMM 98-99 were held, unusually, in LA. Was it faulty memory or covert search for a new drummer?

Imagine if Hawkins had gotten the gig and would then re-record the Josh drums.

"Umm, Taylor, we want your feel on CD, but you gotta sound like Dave..."

On 8.11.2019 at 9:29 PM, Blackstar said:

The Foo Fighters played in London three times during that tour (November 1999, August 2000 and December 2000). I guess the most likely date when Hawkins received the phone call was August 2000, as Freese resigned in March 2000, and, although Brain probably had been brought in around May, he didn't officially join until months later. 

Found a London date for the Foos for March 4th 2000, which would fit the overall Freese timeline better.

Brain would later say something like Guns had arrived with Josh after auditioning all 20 top-notch session drummers in LA (like Terry Bozzio). Replacing Josh was therefore tricky, as Ax wanted a "band drummer", instead of simply a hired gun. That's likely why they reached out to Brain and Hawkins.

3 hours ago, AxlRoseCDII said:

Believe it or not, the way GNR operates is not how a band of this magnitude usually does! 

 

I’m not asking for the band to be as a reality show, I’m asking it to function as a band.
 

Fat chance since 1995.

The lunatic is still running the asylum, and he's turning in a hefty profit in today's market.

"Only one in the game whose lost...."

Just to throw this into the mix;

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it was confirmed yesterday that the band's festival lineup will feature three-fifths of their classic configuration: frontman Axl Rose, guitarist Slash and bassist Duff McKagan. Who else is involved is unconfirmed, although it's heavily rumored that the trio will team up with core players from GNR's modern-day incarnation—including guitarist Richard Fortus, drummer Frank Ferrer, and long-time keyboardists Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman—and even potentially add Velvet Revolver guitarist Dave Kushner into the mix.

Should also be noted that Dizzy's wife and Frank's friend posted Guns/Coachella related hints into social media around the same time as Pitman. Dizzy was quiet, Frank confirmed in a reply. So, technically, if tweeting got Pitman to trouble, it would've been unfair (and weird) to him next to Dizzy and Frank. He was the only one using his own account, sure.

My best guess is something along the lines of what Blackstar said above; a want to reaffirm his job. He may have thought that working with Ax intensely in the studio a few years back had made him untouchable. Slash and Duff come in and think, 'Uh oh, another Paul Huge'. Pitman, for his part, looked to have had an attitude for services rendered since '98. S&D could've gone, 'We built this band, towel boy'.

So, big money shows coming. Team Brazil's having a heart attack while fearing the worst with Ax. Lineup's in a flux, Axl wants his CD gang to stick around. Dizzy's a given, Richard's Gilby on steroids. Matt's not around, possibly to the chagrin of S&D, and certainly because Axl wants it so. He was also (apparently) still hankering a 3 gtr band, with Fortus maybe promoted to 2nd lead and Kushner playing rhythm. 

Amidst all this, Pitman tweets about the shows. S&D may have taken it as grandstanding and self-promotion, while they're trying to get the band together musically. Had Pitman felt insecure about things at the time of the tweet, the next rehearsals would've been worse. Duff could've plausibly confronted him. After a spat, their working relationship would've been totaled, and there would've been too much at stake for him to stick around.

After that, Team Brazil would've called Brain, asking if he knew any keyboard players who'd like to tour. The money grab tweet happened likely after Pitman learned he'd been replaced. As with Ron, the band hit paydirt with Melissa on a short notice, given it's vital to have 3 guitarists or 2 keyboardists in Guns.

TL;DR: "Axl's boy" -syndrome.

"My sense of rejection / is no excuse for my behaviour"

I have to tip my hat to Ax there. A very self-reflective line from someone with a history of temper tantrums.

Instead of being a victim (Maddy, The Blues), he's admitting guilt, or at least turmoil ("I've been so upset").

They really should play this song live. If anything, it shows he's matured a bit somewhere down the line.

8 hours ago, Blackstar said:

REZNOR: If I had to pick something that I think was wrong with how they were treated it was that no one had the balls to say "No." As in, "No, it's not a good idea to put out two double albums of mediocre material." But if you said that you got fired. I think that's inherently the problem. I think the guy is talented at what he is doing.

[Juice Magazine, July 1995]

*cough*Fragile

On 18.9.2019 at 11:42 AM, ZODIAC said:

This document has to be dated pre 2008, as SOD is still listed as THE BLUES

Could be from the 2004 GH lawsuit.

"Look, we're really recording here!"

This is somewhere in the China Exchange.

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Axl said that he and Slash patched things up over the phone in 2015. “Slash and I hadn’t talked in 19 years, and it was a good talk,” he recounted. One of the main points of contention, Axl revealed, were the contents of Slash’s 2007 autobiography. “And I was, like, ‘You wrote a lot of stuff [in your book] that didn’t even happen. It’s not real.’”

That book had actually made things worse on the intervening time, as some Dexter chats show.

Quote

Then you have the mind twisting equally as true horseshit in Slash’s book but I have the rehearsal tapes...

Aye, tis what we get when the frontman releases more lawsuits than albums for two decades straight.