Naupis

He is better than most other bands lead guitar player.

And yet he isn't even better than the other 2 guitarists in his own band. That is where the credibility problem is with the guy.

You use TWAT as a reference point for Robin's greatness. Most of us compare the version of the song with Bucket (a superior talent) and without, and the version with just Robin is flat. He doesn't have the talent to pull off that outro, or even create one like it.

A majority of GNR fans will never accept the guy as the lead guitarist of the band when he is not even physically capable of playing some of the material. You attribute people hating Robin to his look, the truth is people refuse to accept an inferior talent as the lead guitarist of a band who has such a proud history in terms of their lead guitarists.

Fortus or Bumblefoot would not draw nearly the criticism because they fit the bill of how a GNR lead guitarist should play. I can promise you that Bumblefoot wouldn't need to have someone else play song parts for him because he didn't have the chops to do so.

if he wasnt you really think that two of the biggest rock stars (Axl and Trent) would want him as their lead player?

The other side of that coin would say that those two lead singers in particular are two of the bigggest ego maniacs in music and that they picked him specifically knowing he would never over-shadow them on stage or in the studio. Notice how Axl had to surround Robin with 2 other guitarists because of his limitations?

He was originally brought in to add an industrial flavor to the band. Through attrition and seniority he has risen to lead guitar status.

As you said to me, "you have to be smoking crack" if you try and tell anyone on this board that Robin is a more talented player than Richard or Bumble. I am not talking about being able to look EMO and be all emotional or kick your leg around wildly on stage, but actual ability to play his instrument. He gets smoked by both of them, so reason should tell you he should be playing rythm.

They're still rock N' Roll, just a little different.

Kind of like how the Chicago Bulls were still a basketball team after Jordan & Pippen left in 98. 2 players being gone didn't change the nature of the game. They have even had a few playoff seasons in that time, some success. They just haven't reached the championship level where they were once considered one of the greatest teams in history the way they were when both were still there. Pippen & Jordan went their seperate ways, both did some nice individual things along the way. But just like the franchise, neither were able to reach the levels seperately they once reached jointly.

In a nutshell you have the story of Guns N' Roses. The band name, genre, and music stay the same, yet it really isn't the same.

Slash butchered that Nov song all the time but you guys just forget that.

But he also wrote it, so he is cut a little more slack. Kind of like we would be harder on a vocalist covering a GNR song having a bad night than we would be on Axl for having a bad night.

I have come to the conclusion that Axl keeps Finck around as a lead guitarist to ensure that he will never have the Slash problem again. Robin is never going to become a guitar icon, or be revered as one of the best rock guitarists in music today.

To anyone who has actually seen the band live it is clear he is the least talented guitarist in the band in terms of actual ability. He might have some value in the studio, but being good in the studio doesn't mean you should be playing lead. Look at Izzy and Slash, Izzy was a better song writer, but you didn't see him playing lead now did you?

If Finck's true value to the band is studio contributions, then he should be seen and not heard at concerts. Have him play rythm, and he can kick his legs all around until his little hearts content without having to hurt the quality of the songs being played.

Yeah, Gotta love Robin. He is so talented he only manages to be the third best guitarist (out of 3) in his own band. That really screams potential RnR icon to me.

What fuckin' rubbish! Buckethead is a far more talented guitarist than Slash is.

And Peyton Manning is a more talented quarterback than Tom Brady, yet anyone in the NFL would take Brady on their team because he is a "winner."

Slash is far from the most talented guitar on this planet, yet both his SCOM and NR solos are generally found on almost any list of the top 20 solos ever. For all of Bucket's "talent", he is never anywhere to be found in terms of musical results.

I will take the "winner" with the track record of producing legendary results over the guy who may have better technique and talent but is only remembered for being "talented", rather than historic contributions to Rock music.

The November Rain solo is often found in the lists of the top 10 guitar solos ever written. TWAT is good, but not going to be sharing a list with Stairway to Heaven from now until eternity the way November Rain will. People on this board get all hyped up about the new songs and such, making wild claims about them being better than all the old stuff, often forgetting that the NR and SCOM solos are among the 25 greatest EVER. Not last 5-10 years, or against current music, but of all time. It is just silly to try and say some of the demo's are better than 2 of the greatest guitar driven songs ever written.

I know that, but Bucket wasn't at the Hammerstein on the 12th was he?

It was Ron who does the extended solo at the end. Would have been cool if they had turned his guitar up loud enough to really hear it.

i actually enjoyed reading this article until the slash bullshit popped up... it's a shame that ignorance like this will probably haunt the new band for quite some time, when they are a very very talented band of their own and deserve the recognition they hopefully will get.

In all fairness, when you take and replace every member of a band that was wildly popular and had the potential to be one of the greatest rock bands of all time, it is naive to think that this will not be an issue for as long as this band calls themselves GNR. Slash is a guitar God, and people will continue to long for his return. After all, it was music made by Axl, Slash & company that made GNR the phenomenon they were. Axl knowlingly invited this problem when he decided to carry on with the band name, so to turn around and tell people to get over it and move on is a little unrealistic.

It is like wanting your cake and eating it too. It's like Axl wants the fame and commercial opportunities the name brings, but none of the history, baggage or expectations that go with it. It is just not realistic.

CD could be crafted by Jesus Christ himself and 10-20 years from now WTTJ and SCOM will still be GNR's most popular songs. So in that respect it is hard to say CD will justify a 10 year wait in that Appetite was done in under 6 months, proving that the passage of time does not necessarily equate with a better product.

CD will end up getting some good early buzz and being a nice solid album, but he is going to have to release an album that somehow supplants Appetite in the public's consciousness for non die-hards to feel the wait was worth it, and I am just not sure that is humanly possible.

The problem is there is a large faction of fans and the general public that think the new band just hasn't made any music yet that surpasses the old band's best songs. People will forever be hesitant to except this band if they can't surpass the accomplishments of the old group, because otherwise it was not worth breaking up the group to go in this direction.

There are many people who feel, and in some cases justifably so, that Axl has taken GNR from a band that was a Mercedes, and turned it into a Chevy. When you get used to having the best, it can be a tough pill to swallow to some to fully embrace a second tier option when you were spoiled by something that was the finest in music.

This 3rd guitar player thing is nothing more than an insult to Richard and Robin.

Not an insult, just an acknowledgement of the fact neither Finck nor Fortus are qualified to be the true lead guitarist of a band like GNR. While both are solid players, neither of those 2 are in the stratosphere of Slash or Buckethead in terms of ability. I am sure whoever the new guitarist is is one of those virtuoso types the way Bucket was, and will offer the band a legitimate Lead guitarist in the eyes of the public.

For people to ever get past Slash, Guns needed a Bucket type player that is clearly exceptional and worthy of filling those shoes. Robin and Richard just weren't that guy, hence Axl bringing in another new guitarist.

It needs to be the absolute best song the band has recorded, because the song will be judged by "was this worth waiting 10 years for or not", not "is it better than what is out there at the moment. Not to mention the fact it will be compared to the best songs in the GNR back catalog, which comprise some of the greater rock songs ever written.

None of the songs we have heard thus far fit the criteria listed above, so I would assume we have yet to hear whatever will be the first single.

slash sucks on his own/with velvet revolver. the only time slash produced anything good was when he was with axl. so, while the new band is doing great.....slash is stuck wasting his talent

And Axl hasn't surpassed old GNR's best work either, so I guess that means he is wasting his talent also. Nothing we have heard from any members solo efforts surpasses WTTJ, SCOM, NR, PC or Estranged. So all that goes to show is that the sum of GNR was greater than its individual parts.

simple question why would Axl want Slash, Duff and Matt back in the band?

Pretty simple answer. With S/D he managed to record and release quite possibly the greatest rock album ever written. Not to mention became the biggest band in the world with them. Without them, he has still yet to release an album, and couldn't sell out an American tour.

Maybe I am missing something here but life seemed alot easier and more productuve with them than without them. Not to mention the fact we still haven't heard a New Guns tune that surpasses his best work with S/D (WTTJ, SCOM,PC,NR,ESTRANGED.....and the list goes on).

Also November Rain has a very solo..Especially in the video.Slash standing on the piano,man,that looks so awesome and powerfull.

I am happy you noticed that because it is that sort of imagery that propelled GNR from being a great rock band to iconic status. All of the people on this board who think that looks and image mean nothing are kidding themselves because NR doesn't become the epic it is without that sort of video and the ending moment with Slash on the piano with all of the lights flashing. To anyone watching it was the epitome of cool, and is partially why to this day the video is a staple in any top 5 video countdown.

So next time people on this board try and make it seem like Image means nothing if a song is good, think to yourselves if the video for a song like NR would be as powerful as it is with Axl in a sports jersey at the piano and a guy with a bucket on his head standing on top of it. It certainly wouldn't give the same vibe, and for any artist being perceived as cool and relevant is often half the battle in attaining success.

Wish you all would shut the fuck up about being in shape. Look at Ozzy for christ's sake, he's always been overweight and has always been one of the best live performers there are. Age is the only thing catching up to him, well and all of the drugs, but he's much older than Axl and even now he can still sing.

Axl needs to call whoever is training Scott and Duff because both of them have gone from being fat and out of shape to looking better than they have at any point during their career, and both of them are pushing 40 and over.

Axl doesn't need to be skinny like he was in 1986, but he also doesn't have the luxury of being considered "plump" given the business he is in. Mick Jagger and Steven Tyler can where the same clothes at 60 they could at 25, so age isn't really as relevant as many people point to. Axl just needs to get in a gym and really bust his ass as it would make it much easier to handle the gring of touring in the future. Duff mentioned many times during the VR tour how much easier it was on him physically being in shape and sober. Axl could look the same way if he dedicated himself a little.

It really doesn't matter who is in GN'R management. Axl is the one making the retarded decisions and his management people are a bunch of weak "yes men" who can't tell him that he's making mistakes.

Yes and no. There are certainly things people other than Axl involved in this process could do to "lean on him" that would make him very uncomfortable and possibly compell him to release an album.

That would be considered the nuclear option with him. I think everyone involved with the process has treated him with kid gloves because they know how mentally fragile he is, and ultimately want his cooperation as that is the best way to hopefully make this thing as big as possible in the end.

There will come a day however if he doesn't release that album soon that some arm-twisting will occur and we will see an album. The only thing as fans we have going for us is that the label will at some point seek to recoup their 13 million dollar investment, and Axl isn't going to bite that bullet himself. That is how we know we will see the album at some point, the question is how soon.

If he doesn't release that album before the European tour he is screwed.

If he plays new songs at those shows, the whole album will have essentially leaked between all of the news songs that have leaked and all of the new ones he plays, plus the ones from the 2002 tour. That kind of takes the wind out of the album a bit as most of the mystery will be gone.

If he doesn't play new songs and just re-hashes the 2002 setlist he is going to be flamed to kingdom come by fans and media alike as nothing but a hack.

So it is easy to see how he puts himself in a very bad position if he tours again without an album. Then again he hasn't used much common sense throughout this entire process, so why should we expect him to start now?

Pink Floyd- without Waters it largely became a Gilmour solo effort/sound

Which is sadly the same demon Axl will always battle as long as his band is called GNR. Much like Floyd minus Waters, Axl will release a successful album and be a great touring draw. Also like Floyd, New GNR will never be able to get out from under the Old Band/Appetite legacy the way a Waters-free Floyd never surpassed their success from the "Wall" era.

All Axl needs to do is call David Gilmour and ask about the electric environment experienced at Live-8 for the reunion with Roger versus all of the shows they played in the 80-90's without him to see that fans will always clamour for the line-up that put the band on the map over an incomplete version that lives in it's own band's shadow.

And I'm supposed to want this guy back in the band?

Considering that neither Axl nor Slash have been able to do anything in their respective solo careers that surpasses their best work with Guns, I would think the 2 of them getting together again wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

None of Snakepit, VR or New GNR's songs have surpassed the greatest songs (Estranged, NR, PC, SCOM, Jungle) of the Old band. It would only make sense then that people long for a reunion not because they live in the past, but because they want to see the GNR line-up that produced the band's greatest songs.

It is no different than Pink Floyd's situation. Roger Waters and David Gilmore both released great music in their solo ventures, but neither Waters band nor Gilmour's Floyd were able to recapture the magic singularly they did together. All one needs to do is watch Live-8 to see the electric feeling in the stadium with them both on the same stage to see it is never the same with replacements filling in for the genuine article.

Axl hasn't pissed on you left and right. He doesn't make tons of promises, you guys believe all the fucking rumors and then you turn around and blame him.

Go back and look at his comments over the last 10 years and he has promised multiple times over that period about music being just about done, showing up next summer with new songs, not showing up to concerts he advertised he would be at. He has certainly jerked the GNR fan base around, even if not intentionally. To try and cannonize him as a victim is absurd, because 99% of the headaches and lawsuits he has dealt with are self imposed.

Yes, we agree it's about rights to the back catalog being used in film, tv, etc, not royalties. You have shed some new light on it though. They really can't claim Axl ever left a partnership since he formed a new band, as they left the old one. Axl could just as easily say Slash lost rights by joining/forming VR with the same validity, none.

Just a point of clarification. Leaving the band and leaving the partnership are two different legal entities. S/D claim they have Axl's letter of intent to leave the partnetship to start his new band/enterprise. Thus leaving them as the 2 sole remaining members of the GNR partnership, and thus in control of the GNR back catalog.

That is the premise of their lawsuit if you read the brief they filed. Not sure how it will play out, but the fact it hasn't been dismissed or settled after all of this time lends credence to the fact their case is not frivilous, and may have some merit.

They all own a third of the back catalog, Slash/Duff/Axl, when it comes to voting rights and such in terms of licensing songs.

They claim Axl unilaterally vetos/licenses songs without consulting them, which he legally does not have the right to do as they all own 33.33% of the back catalog given the nature of their partnership.

Their lawsuit claims Axl left the partnership that owns the back catalog when he formed his new band, hence leaving Slash/Duff as the sole remaining members of the partnership, and thus controlling the back catalog.

This lawsuit has nothing to do with the GNR name or royalty percentage, but it has everything to do with their partnership that has control of the back catalog. Axl did not own a majority of that, even though he gets more of a percentage of royalty dollars. Hence S/D blocking Axl from putting a re-recorded SCOM on the Big Daddy Soundtrack.

Axl has put himself in the fantastic position of owning a band name that he doesn't even own the songs for. Real smart.