One of the best live performances I've seen in ages

[Estranged Reality]

OK, so Heartless was decent, but I definately don't see the greatness in it. I usually agree with your musical choices ER, but i'm struggling to see the merit in this one. It's a good performance of an average song...

I'm not sure why I like it so much, really. I strongly disliked the album when I first heard it and it's grown on me a lot, so maybe the fact that I've grown to like the song more is why I'm digging this performance so much. I also really like the orchestrations added to the song in the beginning and everything, it seems very epic.

That album's a real oddity though - I've never had such a drastic change in opinion after a few listens. I really almost hated it at first and now I think it might be one of the better albums I've heard this year. Really weird.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Estranged Reality

[Kickingthehabit]

Kanye is a walking penis with unusual sunglasses, but he brings an emotional sincerity to his performances. He's clearly not a singer, but I think that works to his favor because he's not pretending to be one. Based on what he's said to the press, it's more of a means to an end for him to convey his pain. Personally, I think this is the mark of a singer who truly understands what he writes. For someone with such a limited range, he's managed to bring this evocative, soulful intensity through his music. The roughness is, contradictorily, soothing. His first performance of Love Lockdown was poor, but everything else has been dramatic and electrifying..

-Kickingthehabit

[mr. orangestone]

Ok he's a fucking singer, you can't blame AUTOTUNE not working for a bad performance. He should just fucking sing, and if the songs are any good, they should be good without the added effects. Like I said, it's a crutch he hides behind. He and all his fans will just blame poor performances of mediocre songs on "technical difficulties" (he could have just sang on key and made it a good performance).

He's a douche and I don't respect him or his "talent" (or lack thereof).

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

[Zint]

the same sort of chills I used to get watching some of the live videos of Axl when he'd really be getting into a song and you could tell he was just giving it his all, emotionally and physically.

...and on key!

[Estranged Reality]

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

Nah, you're certainly entitled to think what you want.

I think if he were using autotune as a "crutch," though, he would use it the way Axl and other artists do in the studio, to make his singing sound better, on key, etc. He doesn't do that. He's basically trying to emulate T-Pain, who doesn't use it as a crutch either, but as an aesthetic device. Lil' Wayne has also jumped on the bandwagon. They purposely over-use it to create a glitchy, "electronic" vibe.

Frankly I am not a fan of the style and hated it before this record, but I do see a certain attraction to it if it's used correctly. It can create interesting sounds. But I hope he doesn't use it on his next album. If he just keeps doing auto-tune, he's going to be pigeonholed as That Guy. I think he already said that he's doing rap on his next album though, so I don't think there's anything to worry about.

the same sort of chills I used to get watching some of the live videos of Axl when he'd really be getting into a song and you could tell he was just giving it his all, emotionally and physically.

...and on key!

There's no doubt at all that Axl is a far better singer, that's for sure.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Estranged Reality

[Zint]

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

Nah, you're certainly entitled to think what you want.

I think if he were using autotune as a "crutch," though, he would use it the way Axl and other artists do in the studio, to make his singing sound better. He doesn't do that. He's basically trying to emulate T-Pain, who doesn't use it as a crutch either, but as an aesthetic. Lil' Wayne has also jumped on the bandwagon. They purposely over-use it to create a glitchy, "electronic" vibe.

the same sort of chills I used to get watching some of the live videos of Axl when he'd really be getting into a song and you could tell he was just giving it his all, emotionally and physically.

...and on key!

There's no doubt at all that Axl is a far better singer, that's for sure.

I'd have to go with performer as well.

[Estranged Reality]

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

Nah, you're certainly entitled to think what you want.

I think if he were using autotune as a "crutch," though, he would use it the way Axl and other artists do in the studio, to make his singing sound better. He doesn't do that. He's basically trying to emulate T-Pain, who doesn't use it as a crutch either, but as an aesthetic. Lil' Wayne has also jumped on the bandwagon. They purposely over-use it to create a glitchy, "electronic" vibe.

the same sort of chills I used to get watching some of the live videos of Axl when he'd really be getting into a song and you could tell he was just giving it his all, emotionally and physically.

...and on key!

There's no doubt at all that Axl is a far better singer, that's for sure.

I'd have to go with performer as well.

I'd agree with that also. But as far as general performers go these days, I admire this dude's passion. There are so many boring bands out there really, many of whom make great music in the studio but seem lost on stage. Apart from the legends like Axl who are still performing, there aren't a whole lot of modern performers who can compare IMO. There are some, but not many.

As far as rock n' roll goes, Axl's one of my top performers for sure, right up there with Bowie, Jagger, et al. But it's hard to compare that to someone like, say, Michael Jackson, and I do think as far as performance styles go, West is probably more in line with that style of performing.

I'm not into Justin Timberlake's music but I have to give him props too -- he's a pretty great performer as far as pop music goes. I also have to admit he pushed way beyond his boy band boundaries with that last solo album -- there was actually some decent stuff on there -- but I've never been much of a pop/r&b guy so the music doesn't appeal as much to me.

[Zeppelin]

Kanye kicks ass. Funny thing is that 808s isn't even the album he's been focusing on. He's been working on another rap album called Cool Ass Job. Still don't know when that's supposed to be released, but the fact that his latest is still interesting is a great testament to his songwriting abilities.

[Zint]

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

Nah, you're certainly entitled to think what you want.

I think if he were using autotune as a "crutch," though, he would use it the way Axl and other artists do in the studio, to make his singing sound better. He doesn't do that. He's basically trying to emulate T-Pain, who doesn't use it as a crutch either, but as an aesthetic. Lil' Wayne has also jumped on the bandwagon. They purposely over-use it to create a glitchy, "electronic" vibe.

the same sort of chills I used to get watching some of the live videos of Axl when he'd really be getting into a song and you could tell he was just giving it his all, emotionally and physically.

...and on key!

There's no doubt at all that Axl is a far better singer, that's for sure.

I'd have to go with performer as well.

I'd agree with that also. But as far as general performers go these days, I admire this dude's passion. There are so many boring bands out there really, many of whom make great music in the studio but seem lost on stage. Apart from the legends like Axl who are still performing, there aren't a whole lot of modern performers who can compare IMO. There are some, but not many.

As far as rock n' roll goes, Axl's one of my top performers for sure, right up there with Bowie, Jagger, et al. But it's hard to compare that to someone like, say, Michael Jackson, and I do think as far as performance styles go, West is probably more in line with that style of performing.

I'm not into Justin Timberlake's music but I have to give him props too -- he's a pretty great performer as far as pop music goes. I also have to admit he pushed way beyond his boy band boundaries with that last solo album -- there was actually some decent stuff on there -- but I've never been much of a pop/r&b guy so the music doesn't appeal as much to me.

Yeah they've done their Michael Jackson homework...to be sure!

I've seen Michael live and he was quite compelling to watch,much like Axl!

[IndiannaRose]

Ok he's a fucking singer, you can't blame AUTOTUNE not working for a bad performance. He should just fucking sing, and if the songs are any good, they should be good without the added effects. Like I said, it's a crutch he hides behind. He and all his fans will just blame poor performances of mediocre songs on "technical difficulties" (he could have just sang on key and made it a good performance).

He's a douche and I don't respect him or his "talent" (or lack thereof).

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

Actually, he's a rapper. He's experimenting by singing. 'Autotune' is his newest gimmick. Without it, these songs just don't work as well. Take the Peter Frampton allusion as an example. Besides, this thread isn't about 'Love Lockdown'. It's about his performance on 'Heartless'. You're clearly showing bias. Though, that is to be expected (not personal).

[Zint]

Take the Peter Frampton allusion as an example. Besides, this thread isn't about 'Love Lockdown'. It's about his performance on 'Heartless'. You're clearly showing bias. Though, that is to be expected (not personal).

Are you referring to Frampton's talk box?

That's a guitar effect.

If it fails,Frampton can still sing on key.

It's not masking a lack of vocal skills...it's enhancing a guitar solo.

[IndiannaRose]

Take the Peter Frampton allusion as an example. Besides, this thread isn't about 'Love Lockdown'. It's about his performance on 'Heartless'. You're clearly showing bias. Though, that is to be expected (not personal).

Are you referring to Frampton's talk box?

That's a guitar effect.

If it fails,Frampton can still sing on key.

It's not masking a lack of vocal skills...it's enhancing a guitar solo.

You just proved my argument right. That's where the allusion layed.

'Autotune' is not used by Kanye to mask a lack of vocal skills (though like I've said before, he's not a great singer); it's used for its 'electronic vibe'.

In the same vein, guitar effects are not used to mask a guitar player's 'lack of abilities' but rather as an atmospheric tool. This is also applied to Kanye's use of 'Autotune'.

It's a gimmick. It's an effect. He's not trying to cover up anything. People already know he lacks certain vocal abilities. It's there to create a specific sound.

Though, that does not take away from his performances. Not at all.

[Estranged Reality]

Yeah, it's kind of a concept album I suppose. It's about his break-up but he purposely set out to make it all electronic. Good point on Daft Punk; hadn't considered that they might have been his inspiration after having worked with them. The title is a reference to this, which I'm not too familiar with, but was apparently an '80s drum machine.

On the subject of the autotune effect, I think if he were trying to "correct" his vocals, he'd use it far less blatantly. What he's doing essentially nullifies that purpose of the effect -- using it incorrectly doesn't mask vocals, it literally transforms them into glitchy patterns. It just has a specific sound that some people seem to like when, technically speaking, it's being used incorrectly (since the original purpose of Autotune was to correct pitch seamlessly, not do what these guys are doing). It's a cool effect but I could go a lifetime without hearing it used again, to be honest.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Estranged Reality

[Guest Apollo]

I hate to admit it, but Stronger and Goldigger are guilty pleasures of mine.

I also loved No One by Alicia Keys, one of the best overall songs of the year IMO.

It's ONLY music people.

It's OK to enjoy different types and styles.

Music elitists miss out on so much good music.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Apollo

[Shuffle]

I'm really liking 808s & Heartbreak...

[Projected]

Yeah this album still is a piece of shit.

I didn't like Kanye so much as a rapper, just several songs... So now he tries to SING? Haha! and with that stupid effect on his voice. This album is worthless.

Listen to Lupe Fiasco for other, interesting, Hip Hop.

[mr. orangestone]

Take the Peter Frampton allusion as an example. Besides, this thread isn't about 'Love Lockdown'. It's about his performance on 'Heartless'. You're clearly showing bias. Though, that is to be expected (not personal).

Are you referring to Frampton's talk box?

That's a guitar effect.

If it fails,Frampton can still sing on key.

It's not masking a lack of vocal skills...it's enhancing a guitar solo.

You just proved my argument right. That's where the allusion layed.

'Autotune' is not used by Kanye to mask a lack of vocal skills (though like I've said before, he's not a great singer); it's used for its 'electronic vibe'.

In the same vein, guitar effects are not used to mask a guitar player's 'lack of abilities' but rather as an atmospheric tool. This is also applied to Kanye's use of 'Autotune'.

It's a gimmick. It's an effect. He's not trying to cover up anything. People already know he lacks certain vocal abilities. It's there to create a specific sound.

Though, that does not take away from his performances. Not at all.

But if Frampton's talk box stops working he'll still whip up a mean solo. If Kanye's autotune shuts off, his whole performance is ruined and people talk about how it was horrible. That's the different. You shouldn't NEED the effects. I played a show where my talk box stopped working so I just played a solo without it. If I kept trying to use the talk box and playing out of key and looked like a moron, then I'd be like Kanye.

[Zint]

Autotune' is his newest gimmick. Without it, these songs just don't work as well.

Why?

[IndiannaRose]

Autotune' is his newest gimmick. Without it, these songs just don't work as well.

Why?

Hah, well. His electronic vibe would be half-gone! That's what he's going for. Sure, he could do it, but it wouldn't be the same.

[axlslash]

Autotune' is his newest gimmick. Without it, these songs just don't work as well.

Why?

Hah, well. His electronic vibe would be half-gone! That's what he's going for. Sure, he could do it, but it wouldn't be the same.

About half way through Lockdown on SNL, Ye finds his stride vocally and gets back on key. It sounds ok, but not like the recording or anything. It's still decent, but the song isn't the same. It's like if Frampton played Do You Feel Like I Do with no talk. It's still good, it's just a completely different sound.

[Jackie Moon]

i was watching 'love lockdown' and i was like 'wtf is this...does he tihkn its good'

then the next day saw him getting bashed for it. which made me feel better, i wasnt the only one who thought it was terrible.

did not watch the 2nd performance based on the first haha.

[Zeppelin]

i was watching 'love lockdown' and i was like 'wtf is this...does he tihkn its good'

then the next day saw him getting bashed for it. which made me feel better, i wasnt the only one who thought it was terrible.

did not watch the 2nd performance based on the first haha.

But they're talking about the second performance.

Besides, 'Heartless' is definitely the better song anyways.

[mr. orangestone]

Ok he's a fucking singer, you can't blame AUTOTUNE not working for a bad performance. He should just fucking sing, and if the songs are any good, they should be good without the added effects. Like I said, it's a crutch he hides behind. He and all his fans will just blame poor performances of mediocre songs on "technical difficulties" (he could have just sang on key and made it a good performance).

He's a douche and I don't respect him or his "talent" (or lack thereof).

Try flaming me, it won't change my opinion.

Actually, he's a rapper. He's experimenting by singing. 'Autotune' is his newest gimmick. Without it, these songs just don't work as well. Take the Peter Frampton allusion as an example. Besides, this thread isn't about 'Love Lockdown'. It's about his performance on 'Heartless'. You're clearly showing bias. Though, that is to be expected (not personal).

Actually, I didn't even watch the Love Lockdown video, only the Heartless one...so...

[A.J.]

Kanye could never do any song as good as this one:

Keeping it real, baby! :xmasssanta:

[Forsaken]

nah this the best i ever seen.