Should Slash and Duff have fired Axl?

[Dead Flower]

I think they should have taken a 5 year break. Everybody go do whattever they want. Solo albums, dissapear, whatever they wanted to do. The only stipulation is no new GnR business, and no badmouthing each other in the press.

.

Then get back together and see what they could come up with.

definitely.

[bacardimayne]

That would've been cool.

[Orsys]

I think they should have taken a 5 year break. Everybody go do whattever they want. Solo albums, dissapear, whatever they wanted to do. The only stipulation is no new GnR business, and no badmouthing each other in the press.

.

Then get back together and see what they could come up with.

Interesting. That would have been a very healthy approach. Unfortunately, none of them were healthy at the time.

Axl and Izzy founded this band and Axl came with the name.

How should Slash and Duff have fired him ? Besides : fire him for what ? For being an impredictable diva ?

For being late ? For having a temper ? Give me a break, that's part of what made this band famous to begin with.

No it isn't.

it was the music.

everything is just tabloid fodder, and stuff to gossip about among fans.

This is 100 percent correct. Only a few morons care more about that extra bs. Worlds most dangerous band, not giving in to the man, fighting, temper tantrums, showing up late, riots, the name of the band.......all that stuff is fodder for clowns. There are a thousand other bands that can do all that other stuff. But how many bands can come up with Jungle, November Rain, Paradise City, Don't Cry, Estranged, Coma, etc?????

.

It's the music, people. All that other crap is ridiculous.

Except some of the morons that cared about the extra bs were the some of the band members themselves. They talked about the drugs, parties and bs as much or more than making the music.

But I agree, the music is the thing. The rest just sells magazines.

[moreblack]

We all agree that they did their best work together but Axl's stuff has been better than the other guys' since the split.

not so far...

[Vincent Vega]

We all agree that they did their best work together but Axl's stuff has been better than the other guys' since the split.

not so far...

Yes so far.

VR sucked.

Loaded is meh, I'm not into Punk.

Izzy's stuff was OK, probably second best to Axl's.

[moreblack]

VR sucked.

no, Contraband was great. Libertad was not.

[Young_Gun]

Should Slash, Duff and/or Izzy/Matt have fired Axl sometime between 1990-1996?

Would the band have been better off without him post AFD?

irreplaceable (ˌɪrɪˈpleɪsəb ə l)

— adj

not able to be replaced

Do not get me wrong- I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself. BUT he is irreplaceable when it comes to GNR. Need proof? that thing they call Velvet Revolver. Dont tell me that isnt just GNR (or trying their best to be GNR) without Axl. I dont even think it is necessary to state the things Axl brings to the table to this day in GNR.

I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself.

I respect the fact that you realize that the real GnR was the sum of the parts but your kidding about Axl right??

Every one of the guys who have been in the new band have described it as a band, a mutual collaboration. Robin spoke quite freely about his tenure in Guns when he left in '99; Josh Freese as well as Chris Vrenna, Youth, Moby and many other people who've worked with Axl since 1997 have all described it the same way, that each member contributes equally and apparently Axl WANTS it that way.

Please show me where Robin talked freely EVER about his time in Guns N' Roses? Bucket spoke more then Robin did. No one ever described it as a mutual collaboration sorry. Moby said some like like "the drum loops they are doing are better than anything else out there" and said Axl hadn't done vocals yet, but never commented on the band chemistry or democracy, neither did Freese or Youth. I've never heard Vrenna say anything about Guns in general. Provide some quotes and references for you claims and we will take you more seriously. I haven't even bought up what Slash, Duff and Tom Zutant have all said about it either.

[MB.]

Axl and Izzy founded this band and Axl came with the name.

How should Slash and Duff have fired him ? Besides : fire him for what ? For being an impredictable diva ?

For being late ? For having a temper ? Give me a break, that's part of what made this band famous to begin with.

No it isn't.

it was the music.

everything is just tabloid fodder, and stuff to gossip about among fans.

This is 100 percent correct. Only a few morons care more about that extra bs. Worlds most dangerous band, not giving in to the man, fighting, temper tantrums, showing up late, riots, the name of the band.......all that stuff is fodder for clowns. There are a thousand other bands that can do all that other stuff. But how many bands can come up with Jungle, November Rain, Paradise City, Don't Cry, Estranged, Coma, etc?????

.

It's the music, people. All that other crap is ridiculous.

Ofcourse all the other crap is ridiculous. But at the time on of the reasons they got so big, is all the crap. Not for the people who truly liked the music, but a lot of high school girls and boys were totally into that stuff. I truly liked the music, but it was also a great way to go against my parents whishes and to make them crazy. It was a combination of things. Right time, right music, right drama all of that. You really can't deny that! The music was so good, they still are known and are legend. But at the time all the crap was a big part of it. A lot of teenage girls like bad guys and a lot of teenage boys want to be one. It's just that a combination of things why they got so big.

Edited December 23, 2010 by MBRose

[Vincent Vega]

Should Slash, Duff and/or Izzy/Matt have fired Axl sometime between 1990-1996?

Would the band have been better off without him post AFD?

irreplaceable (ˌɪrɪˈpleɪsəb ə l)

— adj

not able to be replaced

Do not get me wrong- I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself. BUT he is irreplaceable when it comes to GNR. Need proof? that thing they call Velvet Revolver. Dont tell me that isnt just GNR (or trying their best to be GNR) without Axl. I dont even think it is necessary to state the things Axl brings to the table to this day in GNR.

I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself.

I respect the fact that you realize that the real GnR was the sum of the parts but your kidding about Axl right??

Every one of the guys who have been in the new band have described it as a band, a mutual collaboration. Robin spoke quite freely about his tenure in Guns when he left in '99; Josh Freese as well as Chris Vrenna, Youth, Moby and many other people who've worked with Axl since 1997 have all described it the same way, that each member contributes equally and apparently Axl WANTS it that way.

Please show me where Robin talked freely EVER about his time in Guns N' Roses? Bucket spoke more then Robin did. No one ever described it as a mutual collaboration sorry. Moby said some like like "the drum loops they are doing are better than anything else out there" and said Axl hadn't done vocals yet, but never commented on the band chemistry or democracy, neither did Freese or Youth. I've never heard Vrenna say anything about Guns in general. Provide some quotes and references for you claims and we will take you more seriously. I haven't even bought up what Slash, Duff and Tom Zutant have all said about it either.

Moby, October 1997:

""Whenever I hang out in Guns N' Roses' studio - it's in some big warehouse in Los Angeles - the atmosphere there is just so nice. Everyone involved really likes one another. There's no rancor and they're all totally clean-living young adults. As far as I can tell, they're all completely straight now. You're not even allowed to smoke in the studio!...The ruthlessness that these people attribute to Axl, I can't relate to it. I've never seen it in him. Since I've become involved with him, I've developed this weird sort of protective, paternal feeling with him....

"They've asked me to be the producer," Moby says, "but I'm not sure I'm capable of doing that because, if nothing else, making this record is going to be a long, long process."

"'I don't think this new music is just a vehicle for him as a solo performer. He wants this to be a band where everyone contributes,Honestly, they're the nicest bunch of people I've ever worked with. [...] The music they're working on has a very dramatic quality to it. They're using some modern technology. Axl's really excited about sampling. He loves the DJ Shadow record and Nine Inch Nails. The stuff I've heard is much more concise than, say, 'November Rain.' Not bombastic. Very stripped down. Very intense. It's not hard-rock music in the way that 'Welcome to the Jungle' was.'"

Anonymous source, October 1997:

There's a huge closet filled with DAT tapes, but there isn't one final song for the record," notes someone close to the band. "Everybody brings their sketches, but the person who is most concerned with refining things is Axl. But he wants other people to bring a lot to the table too - he loves the fact that Dizzy is down there every night working with him. Axl gets agitated when people don't show up and contribute."

Robin, 2000:

About 18 months into that [Cirque De Soilel], I got a call from Axl Rose, who I never met at the time. He invited me to the studio as he was writing and recording songs. It was an invitation for a casual listen. Eventually, after about 8 weeks, we started playing together. We played some of my songs and finally I left the circus and was doing records with Axl, Josh and Tommy, and what would have been a new Guns N' Roses, if you will. We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs. So the timing was perfect. Nails were about to go on the road again, and I wanted to go out on the road with them.

"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records. [...] Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs; from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between. [...] Most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs." (Robin, 2000)

"It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished. [...] No one song was ever completed and I was there for two and a half years." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"I was excited about the material - the band sounded good. But we'd get a song done to an extent and wait for Axl to write a lyric and/or song. I couldn't work on songs with titles like 'Instrumental 34' anymore." (Robin, Kerrang, 12/99)

Chris Vrenna:

"April of '[97], right after Matt Sorum left the band, [...] I got a call from those guys about going down and jamming. [...] Duff was still in it. [...] They had already gotten Robin Finck. [...] [Axl] is super well-listened. He was always a big Nails fan. [...] They wanted the option of experimenting with electronics. [...] My role was supposed to be drumming and programming." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'I did [it] for a couple weeks, but then decided I didn’t want to join the band,' says Vrenna." (Chris Vrenna, Audiohead.net, 07/02)

"They sent me a contract to continue to work with the band. [...] They wanted to guarantee that people would do the album and commit to the tour. With the shake-up that [the] band [had], I think Axl was just looking for a little stability." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'They were trying to get ideas together, see who was compatible with who as far as a band vibe,' says former Nine Inch Nails drummer Chris Vrenna, who came in for a few sessions in the spring of 1997 when late ­night jams (10 P.M. to 6 A.M.) were still taking place at the Complex. Vrenna turned down a drumming spot in GN'R to work on a record of his own. 'It was going to be a long commitment,' Vrenna says. 'There was no firm lineup. Axl had a definite direction he ultimately wanted to head toward, but at the time there wasn't even a song yet.'" (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

Josh Freese:

"When I got the call to go down and audition for Guns N' Roses, I was at a rehearsal place in LA, doing preproduction for a record, and I had a message on my phone from their manager and thought 'What?' I called him back and he asked me if I wanted to audition. But it seemed too big, like a bigger than life band. He was persistent and a couple of days later he said come and meet Axl and the guys.

I went down and auditioned for them, sick as a dog - I had eaten some dodgy seafood in London right before that, gotten on a plane and auditioned that night. I was vomiting all the way top the rehearsal. Axl was totally cool though, and very open-minded about music. He said: 'I hear you played with Devo; I really liked Devo and when I liked them, you got beat up for liking them.'

I thought this guy is really cool, it became obvious that he really listens to music, he was talking about artists all over the map. They invited me back again and from the beginning Axl was so nice and we got along and had a good time. He was completely open, so I decided to join." (Josh Freese, Modern Drummer, 03/03)

"'There's a market for people that work well and fast and can adapt quickly in the studio,' [Freese] says. 'I think a lot of drummers might be in a band and be great drummers, and what they do well is play that music. But they might not be able to step in and within an hour of meeting people, sit down and record a record and make it sound like a band. And make it sound comfortable.'" (Josh Freese, 2001)

Tommy:

"I came around in '98, when the band was still writing the record. It was Paul Tobias and Robin Finck on guitar, Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman on keys, Josh on drums, and me.

[...] We all just started hammering ideas out. [...] We were all left to our own devices to come up with individual instrumental parts. The broader song ideas had to be hammered out." (Tommy, Bass Player, 04/09)

Chris Pitman:

"It was at Ocean Way Studios with Jordan recording 'Below the Sliding doors' when I got the call from GNR. This was May 1998, and I had a friend who was working with Guns at the time. He said that Axl was a fan of LUSK and was really into the wierd guitar sounds, and Orchestration we did. There i met Axl, who was very gracious, respectful dude with that larger-than-life persona he's got, and would make you feel like you had been part of the family for years.

We sat in the control room all night listening to tons of songs and jam tapes that they were working on. Axl, along with Paul Tobias and Dizzy Reed were the core writers of the band at the time, and were writing some incredible stuff, you could tell they were in the right place exploring and reaching for the stars, so to speak." (Chris Pitman, official website)

"I was up at (Axl's) house for about a week or two, and I was setting up rack mounted samplers, and you had your fake orchestra with synthesizers. One would be the strings, one would be the brass, and I was setting that up for him, and I was going "now this module here, we’re going to us this for brass instruments and here you have horns…", and he was playing while I was switching the sounds, and I switched the sounds to French horn sound and he was playing this chord progression and I went to another sound, and he goes "oh no, go back to that one".

We went back and it was the French horn sound and he kept playing this progression and it sounded really cool and I turned around and turned on the tape machine and that ended up being the very intro for the song "Madagascar". And that’s just how that evolved and he just had this chord progression and all of the sudden it married with the French horn and it was their super-moody song and that was the start of that song. We actually recorded it really quickly up there at his house and he just sang unbelievably on it." (Chris Pitman, Talking Metal, 11/08/08)

Brian May

"[Axl] said, 'Brian can you come and do stuff which I will like and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'. So I did. I went over there and I think I played on three tracks and messed around on various other things. But it worked out pretty well, as far as I can tell." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

"[Axl] liked it, but he wanted to get into every single take of every single note and, you know, from one day to another Axl would've been in there like from 5 o'clock in the morning 'till 7 o'clock in the morning comping little bits of my solos and saying, 'can you get Brian to try this'. You know, he's utterly meticulous." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

Rob Holliday (ex-Marilyn Manson guitarist, worked as the lead player in 1999):

"It's a long story that involves Nine Inch Nails - Robin Finck, myself and various other people I know. Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle was working on it, Sean Beavan was working on it - all these people came and went. I ended up being asked over, yes it's true. It was a strange situation." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

''Axl had been a fan of Curve and liked the Sulpher stuff he heard, so he invited me over to LA to lay a bunch of guitar parts down. He has had a whole load of guitarists involved from Dave Navarro to Brian May, so I don't know if any of my parts have survived.'' (Rob Holliday, Metal Hammer, 12/01)

"I'm not sure what Axl is doing right now but when I was there, he had around 40 songs... I'm not sure this record will ever see the light of day." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

"But if you want tales of megalomania, you'll have to go somewhere else. 'Axl was really cool, genuinely a nice guy, very focused on what he wants,' says Rob." (Metal Hammer, 12/01)

Edited December 23, 2010 by Indigo Child

[Julia Alexandra]

No,of course not.It's Axl's band,he came up with the name,and all stuff.Things wouldn't have been the same without Axl...Never ever in this life,or the next ones...Axl is irreplaceable in this band.What do you think that would have happened if Axl would have left the band,and Slash and Duff would have stayed???Everyone would have said that they want Axl band,like they're saying now they want Slash back.But Slash and Duff left so we can't do anything.

[Young_Gun]

Should Slash, Duff and/or Izzy/Matt have fired Axl sometime between 1990-1996?

Would the band have been better off without him post AFD?

irreplaceable (ˌɪrɪˈpleɪsəb ə l)

— adj

not able to be replaced

Do not get me wrong- I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself. BUT he is irreplaceable when it comes to GNR. Need proof? that thing they call Velvet Revolver. Dont tell me that isnt just GNR (or trying their best to be GNR) without Axl. I dont even think it is necessary to state the things Axl brings to the table to this day in GNR.

I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself.

I respect the fact that you realize that the real GnR was the sum of the parts but your kidding about Axl right??

Every one of the guys who have been in the new band have described it as a band, a mutual collaboration. Robin spoke quite freely about his tenure in Guns when he left in '99; Josh Freese as well as Chris Vrenna, Youth, Moby and many other people who've worked with Axl since 1997 have all described it the same way, that each member contributes equally and apparently Axl WANTS it that way.

Please show me where Robin talked freely EVER about his time in Guns N' Roses? Bucket spoke more then Robin did. No one ever described it as a mutual collaboration sorry. Moby said some like like "the drum loops they are doing are better than anything else out there" and said Axl hadn't done vocals yet, but never commented on the band chemistry or democracy, neither did Freese or Youth. I've never heard Vrenna say anything about Guns in general. Provide some quotes and references for you claims and we will take you more seriously. I haven't even bought up what Slash, Duff and Tom Zutant have all said about it either.

Moby, October 1997:

""Whenever I hang out in Guns N' Roses' studio - it's in some big warehouse in Los Angeles - the atmosphere there is just so nice. Everyone involved really likes one another. There's no rancor and they're all totally clean-living young adults. As far as I can tell, they're all completely straight now. You're not even allowed to smoke in the studio!...The ruthlessness that these people attribute to Axl, I can't relate to it. I've never seen it in him. Since I've become involved with him, I've developed this weird sort of protective, paternal feeling with him....

"They've asked me to be the producer," Moby says, "but I'm not sure I'm capable of doing that because, if nothing else, making this record is going to be a long, long process."

"'I don't think this new music is just a vehicle for him as a solo performer. He wants this to be a band where everyone contributes,Honestly, they're the nicest bunch of people I've ever worked with. [...] The music they're working on has a very dramatic quality to it. They're using some modern technology. Axl's really excited about sampling. He loves the DJ Shadow record and Nine Inch Nails. The stuff I've heard is much more concise than, say, 'November Rain.' Not bombastic. Very stripped down. Very intense. It's not hard-rock music in the way that 'Welcome to the Jungle' was.'"

Anonymous source, October 1997:

There's a huge closet filled with DAT tapes, but there isn't one final song for the record," notes someone close to the band. "Everybody brings their sketches, but the person who is most concerned with refining things is Axl. But he wants other people to bring a lot to the table too - he loves the fact that Dizzy is down there every night working with him. Axl gets agitated when people don't show up and contribute."

Robin, 2000:

About 18 months into that [Cirque De Soilel], I got a call from Axl Rose, who I never met at the time. He invited me to the studio as he was writing and recording songs. It was an invitation for a casual listen. Eventually, after about 8 weeks, we started playing together. We played some of my songs and finally I left the circus and was doing records with Axl, Josh and Tommy, and what would have been a new Guns N' Roses, if you will. We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs. So the timing was perfect. Nails were about to go on the road again, and I wanted to go out on the road with them.

"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records. [...] Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs; from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between. [...] Most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs." (Robin, 2000)

"It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished. [...] No one song was ever completed and I was there for two and a half years." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"I was excited about the material - the band sounded good. But we'd get a song done to an extent and wait for Axl to write a lyric and/or song. I couldn't work on songs with titles like 'Instrumental 34' anymore." (Robin, Kerrang, 12/99)

Chris Vrenna:

"April of '[97], right after Matt Sorum left the band, [...] I got a call from those guys about going down and jamming. [...] Duff was still in it. [...] They had already gotten Robin Finck. [...] [Axl] is super well-listened. He was always a big Nails fan. [...] They wanted the option of experimenting with electronics. [...] My role was supposed to be drumming and programming." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'I did [it] for a couple weeks, but then decided I didn’t want to join the band,' says Vrenna." (Chris Vrenna, Audiohead.net, 07/02)

"They sent me a contract to continue to work with the band. [...] They wanted to guarantee that people would do the album and commit to the tour. With the shake-up that [the] band [had], I think Axl was just looking for a little stability." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'They were trying to get ideas together, see who was compatible with who as far as a band vibe,' says former Nine Inch Nails drummer Chris Vrenna, who came in for a few sessions in the spring of 1997 when late ­night jams (10 P.M. to 6 A.M.) were still taking place at the Complex. Vrenna turned down a drumming spot in GN'R to work on a record of his own. 'It was going to be a long commitment,' Vrenna says. 'There was no firm lineup. Axl had a definite direction he ultimately wanted to head toward, but at the time there wasn't even a song yet.'" (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

Josh Freese:

"When I got the call to go down and audition for Guns N' Roses, I was at a rehearsal place in LA, doing preproduction for a record, and I had a message on my phone from their manager and thought 'What?' I called him back and he asked me if I wanted to audition. But it seemed too big, like a bigger than life band. He was persistent and a couple of days later he said come and meet Axl and the guys.

I went down and auditioned for them, sick as a dog - I had eaten some dodgy seafood in London right before that, gotten on a plane and auditioned that night. I was vomiting all the way top the rehearsal. Axl was totally cool though, and very open-minded about music. He said: 'I hear you played with Devo; I really liked Devo and when I liked them, you got beat up for liking them.'

I thought this guy is really cool, it became obvious that he really listens to music, he was talking about artists all over the map. They invited me back again and from the beginning Axl was so nice and we got along and had a good time. He was completely open, so I decided to join." (Josh Freese, Modern Drummer, 03/03)

"'There's a market for people that work well and fast and can adapt quickly in the studio,' [Freese] says. 'I think a lot of drummers might be in a band and be great drummers, and what they do well is play that music. But they might not be able to step in and within an hour of meeting people, sit down and record a record and make it sound like a band. And make it sound comfortable.'" (Josh Freese, 2001)

Tommy:

"I came around in '98, when the band was still writing the record. It was Paul Tobias and Robin Finck on guitar, Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman on keys, Josh on drums, and me.

[...] We all just started hammering ideas out. [...] We were all left to our own devices to come up with individual instrumental parts. The broader song ideas had to be hammered out." (Tommy, Bass Player, 04/09)

Chris Pitman:

"It was at Ocean Way Studios with Jordan recording 'Below the Sliding doors' when I got the call from GNR. This was May 1998, and I had a friend who was working with Guns at the time. He said that Axl was a fan of LUSK and was really into the wierd guitar sounds, and Orchestration we did. There i met Axl, who was very gracious, respectful dude with that larger-than-life persona he's got, and would make you feel like you had been part of the family for years.

We sat in the control room all night listening to tons of songs and jam tapes that they were working on. Axl, along with Paul Tobias and Dizzy Reed were the core writers of the band at the time, and were writing some incredible stuff, you could tell they were in the right place exploring and reaching for the stars, so to speak." (Chris Pitman, official website)

"I was up at (Axl's) house for about a week or two, and I was setting up rack mounted samplers, and you had your fake orchestra with synthesizers. One would be the strings, one would be the brass, and I was setting that up for him, and I was going "now this module here, we’re going to us this for brass instruments and here you have horns…", and he was playing while I was switching the sounds, and I switched the sounds to French horn sound and he was playing this chord progression and I went to another sound, and he goes "oh no, go back to that one".

We went back and it was the French horn sound and he kept playing this progression and it sounded really cool and I turned around and turned on the tape machine and that ended up being the very intro for the song "Madagascar". And that’s just how that evolved and he just had this chord progression and all of the sudden it married with the French horn and it was their super-moody song and that was the start of that song. We actually recorded it really quickly up there at his house and he just sang unbelievably on it." (Chris Pitman, Talking Metal, 11/08/08)

Brian May

"[Axl] said, 'Brian can you come and do stuff which I will like and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'. So I did. I went over there and I think I played on three tracks and messed around on various other things. But it worked out pretty well, as far as I can tell." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

"[Axl] liked it, but he wanted to get into every single take of every single note and, you know, from one day to another Axl would've been in there like from 5 o'clock in the morning 'till 7 o'clock in the morning comping little bits of my solos and saying, 'can you get Brian to try this'. You know, he's utterly meticulous." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

Rob Holliday (ex-Marilyn Manson guitarist, worked as the lead player in 1999):

"It's a long story that involves Nine Inch Nails - Robin Finck, myself and various other people I know. Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle was working on it, Sean Beavan was working on it - all these people came and went. I ended up being asked over, yes it's true. It was a strange situation." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

''Axl had been a fan of Curve and liked the Sulpher stuff he heard, so he invited me over to LA to lay a bunch of guitar parts down. He has had a whole load of guitarists involved from Dave Navarro to Brian May, so I don't know if any of my parts have survived.'' (Rob Holliday, Metal Hammer, 12/01)

"I'm not sure what Axl is doing right now but when I was there, he had around 40 songs... I'm not sure this record will ever see the light of day." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

"But if you want tales of megalomania, you'll have to go somewhere else. 'Axl was really cool, genuinely a nice guy, very focused on what he wants,' says Rob." (Metal Hammer, 12/01)

Sources for most of those please.

Most of those say things like "Axl is a nice genuine guy" which is believable. But most(not all) don't say much about it being democratic. Chris Vrenna's quotes say nothing about it being a democratic colaborative effort. Anonymous sources don't count for shit. You do know that its ultimately Axl who decides what does or does not make it to the record right? These people can talk all they want about "being left to their own devices" but if Axl does not like what they play, he doesn't put it on the record. Comping Brian May's solos(a world renowned guitartist).... hmmm that sure sounds like Brian had an equal say and was able to express himself musically! What about how he made Brain(the drummer) replay Josh Freese's parts NOTE FOR NOTE??? Does that sound like musical freedom to you? How about when Dizzy admitted he didn't even know which of his parts made it to the final record? Or how he told Dave Navaro to "play with more feeling"???

[Vincent Vega]

Should Slash, Duff and/or Izzy/Matt have fired Axl sometime between 1990-1996?

Would the band have been better off without him post AFD?

irreplaceable (ˌɪrɪˈpleɪsəb ə l)

— adj

not able to be replaced

Do not get me wrong- I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself. BUT he is irreplaceable when it comes to GNR. Need proof? that thing they call Velvet Revolver. Dont tell me that isnt just GNR (or trying their best to be GNR) without Axl. I dont even think it is necessary to state the things Axl brings to the table to this day in GNR.

I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself.

I respect the fact that you realize that the real GnR was the sum of the parts but your kidding about Axl right??

Every one of the guys who have been in the new band have described it as a band, a mutual collaboration. Robin spoke quite freely about his tenure in Guns when he left in '99; Josh Freese as well as Chris Vrenna, Youth, Moby and many other people who've worked with Axl since 1997 have all described it the same way, that each member contributes equally and apparently Axl WANTS it that way.

Please show me where Robin talked freely EVER about his time in Guns N' Roses? Bucket spoke more then Robin did. No one ever described it as a mutual collaboration sorry. Moby said some like like "the drum loops they are doing are better than anything else out there" and said Axl hadn't done vocals yet, but never commented on the band chemistry or democracy, neither did Freese or Youth. I've never heard Vrenna say anything about Guns in general. Provide some quotes and references for you claims and we will take you more seriously. I haven't even bought up what Slash, Duff and Tom Zutant have all said about it either.

Moby, October 1997:

""Whenever I hang out in Guns N' Roses' studio - it's in some big warehouse in Los Angeles - the atmosphere there is just so nice. Everyone involved really likes one another. There's no rancor and they're all totally clean-living young adults. As far as I can tell, they're all completely straight now. You're not even allowed to smoke in the studio!...The ruthlessness that these people attribute to Axl, I can't relate to it. I've never seen it in him. Since I've become involved with him, I've developed this weird sort of protective, paternal feeling with him....

"They've asked me to be the producer," Moby says, "but I'm not sure I'm capable of doing that because, if nothing else, making this record is going to be a long, long process."

"'I don't think this new music is just a vehicle for him as a solo performer. He wants this to be a band where everyone contributes,Honestly, they're the nicest bunch of people I've ever worked with. [...] The music they're working on has a very dramatic quality to it. They're using some modern technology. Axl's really excited about sampling. He loves the DJ Shadow record and Nine Inch Nails. The stuff I've heard is much more concise than, say, 'November Rain.' Not bombastic. Very stripped down. Very intense. It's not hard-rock music in the way that 'Welcome to the Jungle' was.'"

Anonymous source, October 1997:

There's a huge closet filled with DAT tapes, but there isn't one final song for the record," notes someone close to the band. "Everybody brings their sketches, but the person who is most concerned with refining things is Axl. But he wants other people to bring a lot to the table too - he loves the fact that Dizzy is down there every night working with him. Axl gets agitated when people don't show up and contribute."

Robin, 2000:

About 18 months into that [Cirque De Soilel], I got a call from Axl Rose, who I never met at the time. He invited me to the studio as he was writing and recording songs. It was an invitation for a casual listen. Eventually, after about 8 weeks, we started playing together. We played some of my songs and finally I left the circus and was doing records with Axl, Josh and Tommy, and what would have been a new Guns N' Roses, if you will. We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs. So the timing was perfect. Nails were about to go on the road again, and I wanted to go out on the road with them.

"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records. [...] Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs; from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between. [...] Most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs." (Robin, 2000)

"It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished. [...] No one song was ever completed and I was there for two and a half years." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"I was excited about the material - the band sounded good. But we'd get a song done to an extent and wait for Axl to write a lyric and/or song. I couldn't work on songs with titles like 'Instrumental 34' anymore." (Robin, Kerrang, 12/99)

Chris Vrenna:

"April of '[97], right after Matt Sorum left the band, [...] I got a call from those guys about going down and jamming. [...] Duff was still in it. [...] They had already gotten Robin Finck. [...] [Axl] is super well-listened. He was always a big Nails fan. [...] They wanted the option of experimenting with electronics. [...] My role was supposed to be drumming and programming." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'I did [it] for a couple weeks, but then decided I didn’t want to join the band,' says Vrenna." (Chris Vrenna, Audiohead.net, 07/02)

"They sent me a contract to continue to work with the band. [...] They wanted to guarantee that people would do the album and commit to the tour. With the shake-up that [the] band [had], I think Axl was just looking for a little stability." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'They were trying to get ideas together, see who was compatible with who as far as a band vibe,' says former Nine Inch Nails drummer Chris Vrenna, who came in for a few sessions in the spring of 1997 when late ­night jams (10 P.M. to 6 A.M.) were still taking place at the Complex. Vrenna turned down a drumming spot in GN'R to work on a record of his own. 'It was going to be a long commitment,' Vrenna says. 'There was no firm lineup. Axl had a definite direction he ultimately wanted to head toward, but at the time there wasn't even a song yet.'" (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

Josh Freese:

"When I got the call to go down and audition for Guns N' Roses, I was at a rehearsal place in LA, doing preproduction for a record, and I had a message on my phone from their manager and thought 'What?' I called him back and he asked me if I wanted to audition. But it seemed too big, like a bigger than life band. He was persistent and a couple of days later he said come and meet Axl and the guys.

I went down and auditioned for them, sick as a dog - I had eaten some dodgy seafood in London right before that, gotten on a plane and auditioned that night. I was vomiting all the way top the rehearsal. Axl was totally cool though, and very open-minded about music. He said: 'I hear you played with Devo; I really liked Devo and when I liked them, you got beat up for liking them.'

I thought this guy is really cool, it became obvious that he really listens to music, he was talking about artists all over the map. They invited me back again and from the beginning Axl was so nice and we got along and had a good time. He was completely open, so I decided to join." (Josh Freese, Modern Drummer, 03/03)

"'There's a market for people that work well and fast and can adapt quickly in the studio,' [Freese] says. 'I think a lot of drummers might be in a band and be great drummers, and what they do well is play that music. But they might not be able to step in and within an hour of meeting people, sit down and record a record and make it sound like a band. And make it sound comfortable.'" (Josh Freese, 2001)

Tommy:

"I came around in '98, when the band was still writing the record. It was Paul Tobias and Robin Finck on guitar, Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman on keys, Josh on drums, and me.

[...] We all just started hammering ideas out. [...] We were all left to our own devices to come up with individual instrumental parts. The broader song ideas had to be hammered out." (Tommy, Bass Player, 04/09)

Chris Pitman:

"It was at Ocean Way Studios with Jordan recording 'Below the Sliding doors' when I got the call from GNR. This was May 1998, and I had a friend who was working with Guns at the time. He said that Axl was a fan of LUSK and was really into the wierd guitar sounds, and Orchestration we did. There i met Axl, who was very gracious, respectful dude with that larger-than-life persona he's got, and would make you feel like you had been part of the family for years.

We sat in the control room all night listening to tons of songs and jam tapes that they were working on. Axl, along with Paul Tobias and Dizzy Reed were the core writers of the band at the time, and were writing some incredible stuff, you could tell they were in the right place exploring and reaching for the stars, so to speak." (Chris Pitman, official website)

"I was up at (Axl's) house for about a week or two, and I was setting up rack mounted samplers, and you had your fake orchestra with synthesizers. One would be the strings, one would be the brass, and I was setting that up for him, and I was going "now this module here, we’re going to us this for brass instruments and here you have horns…", and he was playing while I was switching the sounds, and I switched the sounds to French horn sound and he was playing this chord progression and I went to another sound, and he goes "oh no, go back to that one".

We went back and it was the French horn sound and he kept playing this progression and it sounded really cool and I turned around and turned on the tape machine and that ended up being the very intro for the song "Madagascar". And that’s just how that evolved and he just had this chord progression and all of the sudden it married with the French horn and it was their super-moody song and that was the start of that song. We actually recorded it really quickly up there at his house and he just sang unbelievably on it." (Chris Pitman, Talking Metal, 11/08/08)

Brian May

"[Axl] said, 'Brian can you come and do stuff which I will like and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'. So I did. I went over there and I think I played on three tracks and messed around on various other things. But it worked out pretty well, as far as I can tell." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

"[Axl] liked it, but he wanted to get into every single take of every single note and, you know, from one day to another Axl would've been in there like from 5 o'clock in the morning 'till 7 o'clock in the morning comping little bits of my solos and saying, 'can you get Brian to try this'. You know, he's utterly meticulous." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

Rob Holliday (ex-Marilyn Manson guitarist, worked as the lead player in 1999):

"It's a long story that involves Nine Inch Nails - Robin Finck, myself and various other people I know. Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle was working on it, Sean Beavan was working on it - all these people came and went. I ended up being asked over, yes it's true. It was a strange situation." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

''Axl had been a fan of Curve and liked the Sulpher stuff he heard, so he invited me over to LA to lay a bunch of guitar parts down. He has had a whole load of guitarists involved from Dave Navarro to Brian May, so I don't know if any of my parts have survived.'' (Rob Holliday, Metal Hammer, 12/01)

"I'm not sure what Axl is doing right now but when I was there, he had around 40 songs... I'm not sure this record will ever see the light of day." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

"But if you want tales of megalomania, you'll have to go somewhere else. 'Axl was really cool, genuinely a nice guy, very focused on what he wants,' says Rob." (Metal Hammer, 12/01)

Sources for most of those please.

Most of those say things like "Axl is a nice genuine guy" which is believable. But most(not all) don't say much about it being democratic. Chris Vrenna's quotes say nothing about it being a democratic colaborative effort. Anonymous sources don't count for shit. You do know that its ultimately Axl who decides what does or does not make it to the record right? These people can talk all they want about "being left to their own devices" but if Axl does not like what they play, he doesn't put it on the record. Comping Brian May's solos(a world renowned guitartist).... hmmm that sure sounds like Brian had an equal say and was able to express himself musically! What about how he made Brain(the drummer) replay Josh Freese's parts NOTE FOR NOTE??? Does that sound like musical freedom to you? How about when Dizzy admitted he didn't even know which of his parts made it to the final record? Or how he told Dave Navaro to "play with more feeling"???

Basically, it doesn't matter what anyone says about being left to their own devices. You'll only listen to the bad stuff about him. I get it. It fits the Slashboy narrative.

That's understandable. Please, just be frank and say you want Axl to go away. You know, it's alright if you feel that way, but SAY IT. Admit it.

PS--YOU'RE NEVER, EVER GETTING A REUNION.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Indigo Child

[Young_Gun]

Should Slash, Duff and/or Izzy/Matt have fired Axl sometime between 1990-1996?

Would the band have been better off without him post AFD?

irreplaceable (ˌɪrɪˈpleɪsəb ə l)

— adj

not able to be replaced

Do not get me wrong- I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself. BUT he is irreplaceable when it comes to GNR. Need proof? that thing they call Velvet Revolver. Dont tell me that isnt just GNR (or trying their best to be GNR) without Axl. I dont even think it is necessary to state the things Axl brings to the table to this day in GNR.

I do not believe Axl is GNR, neither does Axl himself.

I respect the fact that you realize that the real GnR was the sum of the parts but your kidding about Axl right??

Every one of the guys who have been in the new band have described it as a band, a mutual collaboration. Robin spoke quite freely about his tenure in Guns when he left in '99; Josh Freese as well as Chris Vrenna, Youth, Moby and many other people who've worked with Axl since 1997 have all described it the same way, that each member contributes equally and apparently Axl WANTS it that way.

Please show me where Robin talked freely EVER about his time in Guns N' Roses? Bucket spoke more then Robin did. No one ever described it as a mutual collaboration sorry. Moby said some like like "the drum loops they are doing are better than anything else out there" and said Axl hadn't done vocals yet, but never commented on the band chemistry or democracy, neither did Freese or Youth. I've never heard Vrenna say anything about Guns in general. Provide some quotes and references for you claims and we will take you more seriously. I haven't even bought up what Slash, Duff and Tom Zutant have all said about it either.

Moby, October 1997:

""Whenever I hang out in Guns N' Roses' studio - it's in some big warehouse in Los Angeles - the atmosphere there is just so nice. Everyone involved really likes one another. There's no rancor and they're all totally clean-living young adults. As far as I can tell, they're all completely straight now. You're not even allowed to smoke in the studio!...The ruthlessness that these people attribute to Axl, I can't relate to it. I've never seen it in him. Since I've become involved with him, I've developed this weird sort of protective, paternal feeling with him....

"They've asked me to be the producer," Moby says, "but I'm not sure I'm capable of doing that because, if nothing else, making this record is going to be a long, long process."

"'I don't think this new music is just a vehicle for him as a solo performer. He wants this to be a band where everyone contributes,Honestly, they're the nicest bunch of people I've ever worked with. [...] The music they're working on has a very dramatic quality to it. They're using some modern technology. Axl's really excited about sampling. He loves the DJ Shadow record and Nine Inch Nails. The stuff I've heard is much more concise than, say, 'November Rain.' Not bombastic. Very stripped down. Very intense. It's not hard-rock music in the way that 'Welcome to the Jungle' was.'"

Anonymous source, October 1997:

There's a huge closet filled with DAT tapes, but there isn't one final song for the record," notes someone close to the band. "Everybody brings their sketches, but the person who is most concerned with refining things is Axl. But he wants other people to bring a lot to the table too - he loves the fact that Dizzy is down there every night working with him. Axl gets agitated when people don't show up and contribute."

Robin, 2000:

About 18 months into that [Cirque De Soilel], I got a call from Axl Rose, who I never met at the time. He invited me to the studio as he was writing and recording songs. It was an invitation for a casual listen. Eventually, after about 8 weeks, we started playing together. We played some of my songs and finally I left the circus and was doing records with Axl, Josh and Tommy, and what would have been a new Guns N' Roses, if you will. We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs. So the timing was perfect. Nails were about to go on the road again, and I wanted to go out on the road with them.

"I'd helped write and arrange and recorded enough songs for several records. [...] Honestly, we recorded so many different song ideas and completed so many different types of songs; from quiet, very simple traditional piano songs to 16 stereo tracks of keyboard blur and everything in between. [...] Most of the stronger songs that ended up on A-lists when I was there were huge rock songs, built for the masses, really guitar-driven." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"We wrote and rehearsed and argued and laboriously recorded several records worth of musical material, which to the best of my knowledge Axl is still finishing. But my work was through. We had dozens of finished songs, as far as I was concerned, and we were waiting for Axl to complete the songs." (Robin, 2000)

"It was great for a while, but then it became terribly frustrating not seeing anything completed because no lyrics were finished. [...] No one song was ever completed and I was there for two and a half years." (Robin, Wall of Sound, 05/00)

"I was excited about the material - the band sounded good. But we'd get a song done to an extent and wait for Axl to write a lyric and/or song. I couldn't work on songs with titles like 'Instrumental 34' anymore." (Robin, Kerrang, 12/99)

Chris Vrenna:

"April of '[97], right after Matt Sorum left the band, [...] I got a call from those guys about going down and jamming. [...] Duff was still in it. [...] They had already gotten Robin Finck. [...] [Axl] is super well-listened. He was always a big Nails fan. [...] They wanted the option of experimenting with electronics. [...] My role was supposed to be drumming and programming." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'I did [it] for a couple weeks, but then decided I didn’t want to join the band,' says Vrenna." (Chris Vrenna, Audiohead.net, 07/02)

"They sent me a contract to continue to work with the band. [...] They wanted to guarantee that people would do the album and commit to the tour. With the shake-up that [the] band [had], I think Axl was just looking for a little stability." (Chris Vrenna, Spin, 07/99)

"'They were trying to get ideas together, see who was compatible with who as far as a band vibe,' says former Nine Inch Nails drummer Chris Vrenna, who came in for a few sessions in the spring of 1997 when late ­night jams (10 P.M. to 6 A.M.) were still taking place at the Complex. Vrenna turned down a drumming spot in GN'R to work on a record of his own. 'It was going to be a long commitment,' Vrenna says. 'There was no firm lineup. Axl had a definite direction he ultimately wanted to head toward, but at the time there wasn't even a song yet.'" (Rolling Stone, 05/11/00)

Josh Freese:

"When I got the call to go down and audition for Guns N' Roses, I was at a rehearsal place in LA, doing preproduction for a record, and I had a message on my phone from their manager and thought 'What?' I called him back and he asked me if I wanted to audition. But it seemed too big, like a bigger than life band. He was persistent and a couple of days later he said come and meet Axl and the guys.

I went down and auditioned for them, sick as a dog - I had eaten some dodgy seafood in London right before that, gotten on a plane and auditioned that night. I was vomiting all the way top the rehearsal. Axl was totally cool though, and very open-minded about music. He said: 'I hear you played with Devo; I really liked Devo and when I liked them, you got beat up for liking them.'

I thought this guy is really cool, it became obvious that he really listens to music, he was talking about artists all over the map. They invited me back again and from the beginning Axl was so nice and we got along and had a good time. He was completely open, so I decided to join." (Josh Freese, Modern Drummer, 03/03)

"'There's a market for people that work well and fast and can adapt quickly in the studio,' [Freese] says. 'I think a lot of drummers might be in a band and be great drummers, and what they do well is play that music. But they might not be able to step in and within an hour of meeting people, sit down and record a record and make it sound like a band. And make it sound comfortable.'" (Josh Freese, 2001)

Tommy:

"I came around in '98, when the band was still writing the record. It was Paul Tobias and Robin Finck on guitar, Dizzy Reed and Chris Pitman on keys, Josh on drums, and me.

[...] We all just started hammering ideas out. [...] We were all left to our own devices to come up with individual instrumental parts. The broader song ideas had to be hammered out." (Tommy, Bass Player, 04/09)

Chris Pitman:

"It was at Ocean Way Studios with Jordan recording 'Below the Sliding doors' when I got the call from GNR. This was May 1998, and I had a friend who was working with Guns at the time. He said that Axl was a fan of LUSK and was really into the wierd guitar sounds, and Orchestration we did. There i met Axl, who was very gracious, respectful dude with that larger-than-life persona he's got, and would make you feel like you had been part of the family for years.

We sat in the control room all night listening to tons of songs and jam tapes that they were working on. Axl, along with Paul Tobias and Dizzy Reed were the core writers of the band at the time, and were writing some incredible stuff, you could tell they were in the right place exploring and reaching for the stars, so to speak." (Chris Pitman, official website)

"I was up at (Axl's) house for about a week or two, and I was setting up rack mounted samplers, and you had your fake orchestra with synthesizers. One would be the strings, one would be the brass, and I was setting that up for him, and I was going "now this module here, we’re going to us this for brass instruments and here you have horns…", and he was playing while I was switching the sounds, and I switched the sounds to French horn sound and he was playing this chord progression and I went to another sound, and he goes "oh no, go back to that one".

We went back and it was the French horn sound and he kept playing this progression and it sounded really cool and I turned around and turned on the tape machine and that ended up being the very intro for the song "Madagascar". And that’s just how that evolved and he just had this chord progression and all of the sudden it married with the French horn and it was their super-moody song and that was the start of that song. We actually recorded it really quickly up there at his house and he just sang unbelievably on it." (Chris Pitman, Talking Metal, 11/08/08)

Brian May

"[Axl] said, 'Brian can you come and do stuff which I will like and I won't feel too bad about ditching this other stuff?'. So I did. I went over there and I think I played on three tracks and messed around on various other things. But it worked out pretty well, as far as I can tell." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

"[Axl] liked it, but he wanted to get into every single take of every single note and, you know, from one day to another Axl would've been in there like from 5 o'clock in the morning 'till 7 o'clock in the morning comping little bits of my solos and saying, 'can you get Brian to try this'. You know, he's utterly meticulous." (Brian May, Radio One Rock Show, 05/10/00)

Rob Holliday (ex-Marilyn Manson guitarist, worked as the lead player in 1999):

"It's a long story that involves Nine Inch Nails - Robin Finck, myself and various other people I know. Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle was working on it, Sean Beavan was working on it - all these people came and went. I ended up being asked over, yes it's true. It was a strange situation." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

''Axl had been a fan of Curve and liked the Sulpher stuff he heard, so he invited me over to LA to lay a bunch of guitar parts down. He has had a whole load of guitarists involved from Dave Navarro to Brian May, so I don't know if any of my parts have survived.'' (Rob Holliday, Metal Hammer, 12/01)

"I'm not sure what Axl is doing right now but when I was there, he had around 40 songs... I'm not sure this record will ever see the light of day." (Rob Holliday, Vagabond Hearts, 2004)

"But if you want tales of megalomania, you'll have to go somewhere else. 'Axl was really cool, genuinely a nice guy, very focused on what he wants,' says Rob." (Metal Hammer, 12/01)

Sources for most of those please.

Most of those say things like "Axl is a nice genuine guy" which is believable. But most(not all) don't say much about it being democratic. Chris Vrenna's quotes say nothing about it being a democratic colaborative effort. Anonymous sources don't count for shit. You do know that its ultimately Axl who decides what does or does not make it to the record right? These people can talk all they want about "being left to their own devices" but if Axl does not like what they play, he doesn't put it on the record. Comping Brian May's solos(a world renowned guitartist).... hmmm that sure sounds like Brian had an equal say and was able to express himself musically! What about how he made Brain(the drummer) replay Josh Freese's parts NOTE FOR NOTE??? Does that sound like musical freedom to you? How about when Dizzy admitted he didn't even know which of his parts made it to the final record? Or how he told Dave Navaro to "play with more feeling"???

Basically, it doesn't matter what anyone says about being left to their own devices. You'll only listen to the bad stuff about him. I get it. It fits the Slashboy narrative.

That's understandable. Please, just be frank and say you want Axl to go away. You know, it's alright if you feel that way, but SAY IT. Admit it.

PS--YOU'RE NEVER, EVER GETTING A REUNION.

Hahaha read my past posts, you'll see nothing of a Slash fanboy. You'll see nothing of an Axl fanboy either. I love Chinese Democracy and have made many a thread dedicated to the album and its follow up. I'm unbiased. You still haven't provided sources for most of the above quotes, some of which are very questionable(particularly the Pitman quotes). In the same way i "only listen to the bad stuff", you only listen to the good things, even though what those quotes actually say do not fit what you think they do.

So at what point does "being left to your own devices" stop for you? Does it stop when Axl scraps a solo? How about when Axl comps, cuts and pastes parts of leads together? What about the note for note drum loops Brain had to do, does that sound like he has musical freedom?

Do i want Axl to go away? Do i want a reunion? Look at my past posts and threads. Half of them are begging for the follow up to Chinese Democracy, it was Chidem which got my into playing guitar. I do not care for a reunion. Your posts however reek of that which swing on Axl's nuts.

I have a genuine question for you. Do you really think this "band" gather together and "jam"(with Axl) and bang out ideas like Metallica or Tool? If you do, then good luck to you, for you are truly fooling yourself.