Popular Post Guest NGOG Posted February 3, 2014 Popular Post Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) First of all, I will likely be ridiculed for attempting to initiate this discussion. Quite recently, I've been in a position to observe the effects of bi-polar/manic depressive states. I've had the fortune - in an intellectual sense - of seeing these conditions in action and how they affect people.Before I talk about such states, I would first like to mention the stigma which surrounds such problems. When someone concedes that they are in fact suffering from bipolar, they are strangley discredited as people. They aren't 'normal, functioning' human beings anymore. They're privately regarded, for want of a better expression, as a bit cooky. For that reason, those in the public eye are extremely reluctant to talk about having a mental 'disorder' (disorder by the way, is a phrase they seriously need to review). I'm sure many of you are familiar with the recent revelations by Catherine Zeta Jones. After privately suffering for so long, she finally went public with her experiences. Some of you may also recall that Axl did the same thing (while simultaneously expressing the fear that many wouldn't take his story seriously). In case you didn't notice, it was largely met by the ignorant response of 'he's just a pussy and making excuses for being one'.But onto the more pressing part of my post; and that is how bi-polar absolutely cripples the possibility of leading a routine life. From what I have seen, some days you feel like conquering the world. On such days the person becomes extremely animated, and they're bursting with an unappeasable sense of energy. Others you just can't face any simple action and would prefer to stay within the comfort of your home for days on end. In order to complete the most basic of tasks, you have to gear yourself up as if you were going out to fight 12 rounds with an in-prime Mike Tyson. As I said, it absolutely cripples the permanency of your emotions. It constantly alters how you feel about things. One day you may commit yourself to something, the next you're doing everything in your power to cancel the arrangement. The person is overcome by an extremely illogical sense of dread. To the point that they just can't do it.My point is, that maybe you shouldn't draw the conclusion that Axl is just a dickhead. That he gets some sort of cheap thrill out of disappointing his fans. Maybe when he's late for a show, or seemingly losing spirit, you should consider the things he talked about as early as 1993. Everyone sees their favourite rockstar as immortal, it's inconcievable that they might be privately dealing with something. Edited April 22, 2014 by NGOG 12
Facekicker Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) Would you consider yourself a manic-depressive?I'm very sensitive and emotional, and things upset me and make me feel like not functioning or not dealing with people, the band or anything. I went to a clinic, thinking it would help my moods. The only thing I did was take one 500-question test - ya know, filling in the little black dots. All of sudden I'm diagnosed manic-depressive. "Let's put Axl on medication". Well, the medication doesn't help me deal with stress. The only thing it does is help keep people off my back because they figure I'm on medication.- Axl Edit: think this was his original remark, not sure.... Edited February 3, 2014 by Facekicker 1
Guest NGOG Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) Would you consider yourself a manic-depressive?Not at all, I'm not referring to something that I've observed in myself.Edit: I just realized that was the question posed to Axl, sorry. Edited February 3, 2014 by NGOG
Facekicker Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 No worries, I posted that a bit quick. As everything with Axl he makes a statement, then later backtracks. So we are left questioning which statement is true. I think if Axl is manic-depressive he'd get a lot more sympathy. As it stands we don't know the facts.
magisme Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Fair enough. The problem for me is the blaming everyone else all the time, the whole "out ta get me" attitude. A 51 year old man should be able to own up to his issues. If he did, I'd be far less critical. 1
Bobbo Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I think it's fairly obvious he's a bit coo coo for coco puffs
Guest NGOG Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) As everything with Axl he makes a statement, then later backtracks.But doesn't that in itself tell you something? Unfortunately, as a society, we've only recently started acknowledging the importance of mental health. Edited February 3, 2014 by NGOG
SunnyDRE Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) When you get out of the military and make your claim to the VA, they will not pay you for being bi-polar.The government thinks everyone is bi-polar (seriously). Which means to them, you have good days and you have bad ones.I agree with them. Its just an excuse, and I think its an excuse here. Edited February 3, 2014 by SunnyDRE
BangoSkank Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Do we know we has it, or does it just seem that way? He might be medicated, but I find it a little hard to believe he could accomplish that he has with such a, usually, crippling condition.
Gordon Comstock Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) I always shake my head when people try to explain Axls "mental problems".I don't think anyone here was under any delusions as to whether Axl has a few loose wires upstairs. (Ok, maybe a few delusional people. Whatever.)I think I have a fair understanding of how manic depression works, as I've dealt with it directly for the better half of the last decade, both personally and watching family members deal with shit. However, every person deals with their issues differently, so talking about this is pretty pointless.I do think though, with the position Axl's in, he could do a better job of explaining some things. But I see why he doesn't. Edited February 3, 2014 by RickRoses
sweetness Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Fair enough. The problem for me is the blaming everyone else all the time, the whole "out ta get me" attitude. A 51 year old man should be able to own up to his issues. If he did, I'd be far less critical.Pretty much this. I think most psychological dissorders are over-diagnosed in the name of selling prescription drugs, but if Axl genuinely has something like bi-polar dissorder or post-traumatic stress I wouldn't be shocked. The guy had a pretty crazy life leading up to GNR. Still doesn't excuse the constant finger pointing when things go wrong and the irrational hatred of Slash.
OmarBradley Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) If you're trying to say that bi-polar disorder exonerates Axl of all decisions he makes... that's not really an appropriate analyzation. More accurately, being bi-polar can absolutely affect a persons productivity and their decisions, but like you said NGOG, that person is still a person. Bi-polar disorder is not a debilitating condition, a very good friend of mine is confirmed diagonosed bi-polar, he went to Berklee School of Music and graduated with an undergrad degree in performance in 3 years by working extra each summer and winter. I get that Axl has had some fucked up things happen in his past, but so has Scott Weiland and others, and Catherine Zeta Jones still manages to act in multiple films at a time. I respect that Axl's actions are sometimes influenced by his mental condition, but it's not the reason why we are all here on this forum, speculating, estimating, and foaming at the mouth for the next leak. Edited February 3, 2014 by OmarBradley
Guest NGOG Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 (edited) He might be medicated, but I find it a little hard to believe he could accomplish that he has with such a, usually, crippling condition.Axl himself discussed such conditions in the early 90s, but quickly shied away from such descriptions when the public didn't really express any empathy. As I said, in the early 90s it wasn't really "acceptable" to discuss the concept of mental health. It's only in recent years that Axl has developed any degree of appearance consistency. If Axl does endure bouts of mood swings to this day - and maybe he doesn't - I'm very glad that he's doing better. I always shake my head when people try to explain Axls "mental problems".I think you're being extremely unfair on my post. I just think it's something we should all consider in our criticisms of his actions (or lack off).If you're trying to say that bi-polar disorder exonerates Axl of all decisions he makes... that's not really an appropriate analyzation. Absolutely not. It's more of a logical explanation than a justification. I just think people are off the mark when they accuse Axl of deliberately upsetting his fans.As you said, these conditions don't prevent productivity, they just affect its consistency. For that reason, the person is also predisposed to moments of utter genius. Edited February 3, 2014 by NGOG 1
magisme Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I just think people are off the mark when they accuse Axl of deliberately upsetting his fans.Who says that? Really, just volcano or brainsaber or whoever said Axl is trolling the fans. I think most of us realize Axl is just lazy and dysfunctional.
Guest NGOG Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I just think people are off the mark when they accuse Axl of deliberately upsetting his fans.Who says that? Really, just volcano or brainsaber or whoever said Axl is trolling the fans. I think most of us realize Axl is just lazy and dysfunctional.Maybe I should have said "willing to upset his fans". Is that fair?
magisme Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 I just think people are off the mark when they accuse Axl of deliberately upsetting his fans.Who says that? Really, just volcano or brainsaber or whoever said Axl is trolling the fans. I think most of us realize Axl is just lazy and dysfunctional.Maybe I should have said "willing to upset his fans". Is that fair?Sure. I've consistently been of the mind that he is overly concerned, to the point of being obsessed, with the fans' and the media's perception of him. I think he has a tendency to focus on the negative and it paralyzes him. I have sympathy for him to an extent. But you don't get a pass just because you have problems, and especially not when you're not man enough to admit your problems. So when he can't release music, and he can't communicate, and he takes advantage of his hardcore fanbase with such a lackluster effort as he's put forward over the last few years, fuck it, something's gotta give. You're not the only one with problems, buddy.
MB. Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 He could very well have a borderline personality disorder, this could explain his 'they are out to get me' attitude very well.It's still just guessing, but something isn't 'right' for sure.
foghat43 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) I think the bigger question is...does Axl owe his fans an explanation for his behavior, lack of productivity, etc.? If he wants to keep his private life (and perhaps details about a mental illness or whatever) to himself then he has that right to privacy IMO. Being a fan doesn't entitle one to know all the intimate details of a musician's personal life. Just my opinion. Edited February 4, 2014 by foghat43 2
magisme Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 No, he doesn't owe us an explanation, but he has to accept the consequences when he doesn't give us one. 1
foghat43 Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 No, he doesn't owe us an explanation, but he has to accept the consequences when he doesn't give us one.Agreed.
wfuckinga Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Axl doesn't work for you or have to do a goddamn thing you think, ever. He doesn't owe us anything either. Life doesn't owe you your own personal happy ending. 1
DR DOOM Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 I've had a lot of experience with "bi polar" and other "mental disorders" or whatever they are called this week- a close friend of mine can be very similar to Axl or what might be perceived as the classic Axl "psycho" behaviour.He is only a little guy, extremely talented- and he could/can be totally chilled one minute and then something nobody else notices might set him off and he can explode: everything's cool and then a bottle is flying at your head cause he took something you said the wrong way somehow. In Slash's book he mentions Axl flipping out on those 2 girls in Chicago in a really uncool way: that reminded me of that friend a lot the way it was described, from laughter to an explosion of "shocking violence" or destruction.My best friend as a kid's dad used to bash his mother, and this kid (3rd grade) would explode like that too-one time me and him were niggling with this other kid in class and my little buddy just sprang up, punched the other kid in the throat and then rammed his head through the glass window...at like 8 years old. He was really short, maybe it's just a small man thing?But anyway, I am actually quite respectful of Axl's "problems" and I can definitely understand some of it.It's not a free pass though, and like anybody it needs to be confronted/managed properly and I'm not so sure being surrounded by "yes men" (I'm not saying and don't know if Axl is) is healthy for someone like that. 1
Smoking Baby Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 Axl doesn't work for you or have to do a goddamn thing you think, ever. He doesn't owe us anything either. Life doesn't owe you your own personal happy ending.Only Axl fans need to have this mentality to avoid feeling let down. I know you're right but that's far from being a good thing. And GNR fans have set the bar very low.
rockerman Posted February 4, 2014 Posted February 4, 2014 (edited) First of all, I will likely be ridiculed for attempting to initiate this discussion. Quite recently, I've been in a position to observe the effects of bi-polar/manic depressive states. I've had the fortune - in an intellectual sense - of seeing these conditions in action and how they affect people.Before I talk about such states, I would first like to mention the stigma which surrounds such problems. When someone concedes that they are in fact suffering from bipolar, they are strangley discredited as people. They aren't 'normal, functioning' human beings anymore. They're privately regarded, for want of a better expression, as a bit cooky. For that reason, those in the public eye are extremely reluctant to talk about having a mental 'disorder' (disorder by the way, is a phrase they seriously need to review). I'm sure many of you are familiar with the recent revelations by Catherine Zeta Jones. After privately suffering for so long, she finally went public with her experiences. Some of you may also recall that Axl did the same thing (while simultaneously expressing the fear that many wouldn't take his story seriously). In case you didn't notice, it was largely met by the ignorant response of 'he's just a pussy and making excuses for being one'.But onto the more pressing part of my post; and that is how bi-polar absolutely cripples the possibility of leading a routine life. From what I have seen, some days you feel like conquering the world. On such days the person becomes extremely animated, and they're bursting with an unappeasable sense of energy. Others you just can't face any simple action and would prefer to stay within the comfort of your home for days on end. In order to complete the basic of tasks, you have to gear yourself up as if you were going out to fight 12 rounds with an in-prime Mike Tyson. As I said, it absolutely cripples the permanency of your emotions. It constantly alters how you feel abouts things. One day you may commit yourself to something, the next you're doing everything in your power to cancel such an arrangement. The person is overcome by an extremely illogical sense of dread. To the point that they just can't do it.My point is, that maybe you shouldn't draw the conclusion that Axl is just a dickhead. That he gets some sort of cheap thrill out of disappointing his fans. Maybe when he's late for a show, or seemingly losing spirit, you should consider the things he talked about as early as 1993. Everyone sees their favourite rockstar as immortal, it's inconcievable that they might be privately dealing with something.dead on!Ive had patients( as well as myself) that did absolutely amazing things, made huge successes of their lives in a manic surges only to crash and crash hard and then retreat into a depressive recluse modalities of expressing their lives. No amount of coaxing, goading or even application of mood stabilizers can motivate them from that position. Try to guilt them , shame them or even reason with them and that just further isolates them into withdrawal. Push to hard and something snaps and you get rage..you get defiance, you get fear disquised as anger and bitterness. As I understand "bi polar" the highs are highs and the lows are lows. THere is a feeling of invincibility and thus many many report that substence abuse in its many forms was present in both the highs and the lows. In the lows ..there is a feeling of isolation, misunderstood, and extreme vulnerability ..that vulnerbility comes out as paranoia ... and often friends and family get driven away in those episodes... I know that is a broad generality of a malady that is really not that well understood.Ah hell.. it might help someone out there to tell you about myself.I recognize some of those symptoms in myself...perhaps thats why I related to Axl and his position much more than any of the other members.I pushed like hell to get through college with 24/7 energy as well as grad school..i played in a band, worked a job, had a business,got married and traveled the world achieved and accomplished a huge amount in a very short period of time all at the same time. I pushed like hell to get away from the shit things that had happened in my childhood but no matter how hard Id run the past was as real and present even though years had gone by. Who I thought I had to be was someone that was not from where i was from.What was fear or panic usually was expressed as anger and intensity...symptoms that were diagnosed as ADD...socially unaaceptable responses and behaviors etc with the honus being .."take your meds and shut the fuck up" I did not take my meds.. the meds made me far worse emotionally and mentally. This was during the 90's and 2000's always pushing .. planning schemeing, doing..dreaming.Then one day.. and it was extremely sudden..like overnight sudden... I just didnt give a shit. Didnt care at all.. even though I knew I should.. even though I had a million obligations to meet. A ton of things to get accomplished in any given day and I just didnt fucken care. At first I thought maybe I had a virus, thought maybe I had been working to hard..thought I was just going through burnout.. but it was beyond that. I though maybe after all I had done that maybe it wasnt enough.. and I had made the wrong choices.. married the wrong woman, sang the wrong words, picked the wrong career etc.. completely irrational thinking. Bizzar Pressures that i used to thrill in dealing with suddenly became completely overwhelming.. and i started putting things off more and more and avoiding dealing with them.It was as if something had reached inside of me and turned my soul off. Beyond depression..beyond sadness..beyond feeling tired and worn out.Id sit down to the piano or pick up my guitar and could not pull anything out.. could barely remember any of the songs that I had been playing for years. And I stopped planning, stopped dreaming..stopped wanting or needing.For six months I barely made it through my day. Just went on autopilot from there. Stopped going out, stopped writing and singing, stopped going to see friends. Social settings were hell... pure hell for me. I couldnt relate to conversations or motivations of people . I became extremely anxious and panic ridden when I thrust into places where I felt like I had absolutely no control. I came across as an alloof badass and even cocky to some.. but duing this phase I just wanted to retreat and get the fuck away from anything and everyone. Just couldnt deal with anything. Couldnt commit to anything and I couldnt follow through on things I had given my word to. I had a huge circle of collegues, family and friends as well as a thriving growing practice and I just didnt give a rats ass about any of that. I was on course to make 200,000 in 2007 and I barely made 25,000. I moved into my clinic and just hung out watching movies , smoking 2 packs of cigs a day and drinking coffee by the gallon. Id see just enough patients to pay the bills but didnt recruit new ones or keep up with the literature. Stopped going to continuing ed classes. Id sleep 12-15 hours a day and still feel exhausted. I started allowing people that were basically leeches and parasites dominate my time and resouces. Odd thing was I had no sense of time.. And the private conversations with myself were fucking brutal. Not voices in my head kind of thing. Just having the same conversation over and over againg. just finding no focus, no joy, no inspiration in anything or anyone. Conversations with people just became blah blah blah..I was glad I was in a position and awareness enough to take a few months off of work. and two years passed before I even began to fully realize what the fuck I was doing and more so what I had not done. It sucked to have to confront that...People would try to discuss it with me and I was absolutely the most hypersensitive person and I would fucking destroy them. Id come at them as if they had held a gun to my head or threatend me personally and many of them..just sadly left my life. Odd thing was though.. I knew something wasnt right but denied it. And just as weird as it came on ..it went. Started running, working out.. writting and singing again. Eating good food and going out . Started seeing 20 plus patients a day and got back into the groove but without the manic energy that had driven me before. Absolutely odd. kind of sounds like someone we know. be interesting to know. Edited February 4, 2014 by rockerman 4
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