Opinions on Salinger's "Catcher in the Rye"

[Guest Len B'stard]

What a bunch of condescending cunts Suddenly having read CITR and naming Beatles songs is a fuckin' sign of being cultured and educated. Newflash geniuses, The Beatles is pop music, it is almost the opposite of high minded refined individuals are into, you don't think Noel Coward and Bertrand Russell sat around in smoking jackets, drinking Napoleon Brandy and listening to 'She Loves You' do you?

That old 'give em a rope, wants to be a cowboy' thing SOOOO applies here. You do realise that Catcher In The Rye isn't complex weighty literature right? Or any of the beats for that matter, Kerouac, Ginsberg and them. There is literally nothing about their work (except maybe Burroughs but even then, touch and go) that is complex or that an understanding of is indicative of exceptional intellect.

Honestly, read a couple of books and you reckon you're fuckin' geniuses, there's a reason a lot of you came to this book through high school y'know, cuz thats the fuckin' brain level it's for.

'Ohmigod, they can't name a Beatles song, societies collapsing', oh shut the fuck up, it was 60 years for fuckssake, stands to reason some people ain't gonna have heard of it. Sorry to say but here in 2014, guitar based vocal groups are not the order of the day.

Suddenly reading Catcher in the Rye makes you fuckin' Nietschze

Interesting post. I was thinking similar thoughts. People calling Holden a "whiny bitch" as a reason for not liking the book

is tantamount to people refusing to like Oliver Stone's Tony Montana character for their hate of "psychopaths"

Why is liking Tony Montana important? I mean, it's almost essential to not like him on some level for the film to be an effective piece, he's not a very nice person in that film y'know

Edited March 9, 2014 by sugaraylen

[AdriftatSea]

it's a great book, infinitely better than anything written by lennon

Apples and oranges. One, a fictional character, written by a person with PTSD from the war, that had a friend commit suicide in his sweater (tragic! PTSD also?) yet was a walking contradiction; one was a musician that believed in peace and was against war. And the one that believed in peace was murdered by a crazed sociopath that was obsessed with the book and likened himself to the 'Peter Pan' Holden Caufield that hated the 'have's' of this world and believed himself to be a 'have not' when he had the world at his feet having been privileged to be in a prep school. He had everything, and he blew it.

Edit: One more thing, IMO, it isn't a great book. Lennon, on the other hand, he wrote some great music.

Edited March 9, 2014 by AdriftatSea

[sweetness]

What a bunch of condescending cunts Suddenly having read CITR and naming Beatles songs is a fuckin' sign of being cultured and educated. Newflash geniuses, The Beatles is pop music, it is almost the opposite of high minded refined individuals are into, you don't think Noel Coward and Bertrand Russell sat around in smoking jackets, drinking Napoleon Brandy and listening to 'She Loves You' do you?

That old 'give em a rope, wants to be a cowboy' thing SOOOO applies here. You do realise that Catcher In The Rye isn't complex weighty literature right? Or any of the beats for that matter, Kerouac, Ginsberg and them. There is literally nothing about their work (except maybe Burroughs but even then, touch and go) that is complex or that an understanding of is indicative of exceptional intellect.

Honestly, read a couple of books and you reckon you're fuckin' geniuses, there's a reason a lot of you came to this book through high school y'know, cuz thats the fuckin' brain level it's for.

'Ohmigod, they can't name a Beatles song, societies collapsing', oh shut the fuck up, it was 60 years for fuckssake, stands to reason some people ain't gonna have heard of it. Sorry to say but here in 2014, guitar based vocal groups are not the order of the day.

Suddenly reading Catcher in the Rye makes you fuckin' Nietschze

Interesting post. I was thinking similar thoughts. People calling Holden a "whiny bitch" as a reason for not liking the book

is tantamount to people refusing to like Oliver Stone's Tony Montana character for their hate of "psychopaths"

Why is liking Tony Montana important? I mean, it's almost essential to not like him on some level for the film to be an effective piece, he's not a very nice person in that film y'know

I think you're the one whos being condescending here Lenny. It's just a book, and this is a thread for it, people who enjoyed the book are giving their reasons why they enjoyed it, where in the hell did anybody claim Catcher In The Rye is some sort of high form of literature?

You're in here overreacting and trying to tell everybody who's read the book and enjoyed it that it's a shit book... without even ever reading it.

You're the cunt in this situation, sir.

[ohlovelyrita]

it's a great book, infinitely better than anything written by lennon

Apples and oranges. One, a fictional character, written by a person with PTSD from the war, that had a friend commit suicide in his sweater (tragic! PTSD also?) yet was a walking contradiction; one was a musician that believed in peace and was against war. And the one that believed in peace was murdered by a crazed sociopath that was obsessed with the book and likened himself to the 'Peter Pan' Holden Caufield that hated the 'have's' of this world and believed himself to be a 'have not' when he had the world at his feet having been privileged to be in a prep school. He had everything, and he blew it.

I would like to be more clear on his PTSD. I had thought his heartbreak might have given him the majority of that voice. I never heard about that suicide.

Tragic. Many think Chapman was a programmed assassin (MK Ultra) and he was carrying the book at the time and not far into it. Wasn't he

reading it after the crime against a wall to look inconspicuous? I forget. He could have been rereading it. There were 2 more famous crime committed by

Holden fanatics. I got the impression that Salinger wishes he never created Holden for how people obsessed and wrote him letters as if they were writing

to Holden. He felt trapped in a hell. No respect for an artist. No wonder he didn't release anything for some 40 years!

Last year's documentary is excellent. I look forward to the five unreleased books. When I read his writing

I am in awe and feel like I could never be an adequate writer if I tried. His imagination, humor, vivid characterizations, and quirky details have

you laughing out loud and then it gets real dark--what a writing style!!!

I have Sugaraylen blocked since 2013. I see that he responds to me when people captures his post.

Can't believe he still cupcakes me.

Remember Chapman met Lennon earlier that day and came back to greet him again.

Should I be worried? Has anyone done a background check on some of these posters?

My thread on Salinger: http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/202099-jd-salinger-gets-dissed-on-twitter-by-famed-author-joyce-carol-oates/

Edited March 9, 2014 by ohlovelyrita

[arnold layne]

Salinger IS Holden

That is a huge statement that shouldn't be taken lightly, and it is almost an accusation. Do you have any reasons to say this at all?

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think you're the one whos being condescending here Lenny. It's just a book, and this is a thread for it, people who enjoyed the book are giving their reasons why they enjoyed it, where in the hell did anybody claim Catcher In The Rye is some sort of high form of literature?

What I was saying is a reaction to some of the ideas expressed in this thread, for instance Broski and his condescending bullshit about 'i imagine you don't read a lot and you don't strike me as the book reading type' and Ritas further assertion that people are intimidated by books, in response to a comment about me, that doesn't strike you as slightly condescending? People that read high school level books and develop a superiority complex about it? And furthermore this astonishment at the idea that some people might not've heard a Beatles song and behaving in a superior way just cuz you do. No ones said it's a high form of literature but when you start standing up and waving your cock about over this shit like it makes you fuckin' bookworm of the century perhaps you could do with reminding that you're not actually reading something thats especially substantial as literature goes.

I do not like to be talked down to and when i feel I'm being talked down to it gets on my tits. Perhaps just because someone doesn't go on about books 24/7 trying to impress people doesn't mean that they are illiterate. And the funniest bit about it is that it's over a fuckin' book off a high school reading list

You're in here overreacting and trying to tell everybody who's read the book and enjoyed it that it's a shit book

No I'm not, I'm reacting specifically to being spoken to or spoken about, were I in this thread just coming out with this shit for no reason then it would be condescending but I'm not…at all. The point of the post that you just quoted is not that CITR is a shit book and if you think it is then you've not understood what it's saying.

You're the cunt in this situation, sir.

I'm the cunt in every situation, that's not the point

Edited March 9, 2014 by sugaraylen

[sweetness]

I think you're the one whos being condescending here Lenny. It's just a book, and this is a thread for it, people who enjoyed the book are giving their reasons why they enjoyed it, where in the hell did anybody claim Catcher In The Rye is some sort of high form of literature?

What I was saying is a reaction to some of the ideas expressed in this thread, for instance Broski and his condescending bullshit about 'i imagine you don't read a lot and you don't strike me as the book reading type' and Ritas further assertion that people are intimidated by books, in response to a comment about me, that doesn't strike you as slightly condescending? People that read high school level books and develop a superiority complex about it? And furthermore this astonishment at the idea that some people might not've heard a Beatles song and behaving in a superior way just cuz you do. No ones said it's a high form of literature but when you start standing up and waving your cock about over this shit like it makes you fuckin' bookworm of the century perhaps you could do with reminding that you're not actually reading something thats especially substantial as literature goes.

I do not like to be talked down to and when i feel I'm being talked down to it gets on my tits. Perhaps just because someone doesn't go on about books 24/7 trying to impress people doesn't mean that they are illiterate. And the funniest bit about it is that it's over a fuckin' book off a high school reading list

You're in here overreacting and trying to tell everybody who's read the book and enjoyed it that it's a shit book

No I'm not, I'm reacting specifically to being spoken to or spoken about, were I in this thread just coming out with this shit for no reason then it would be condescending but I'm not…at all. The point of the post that you just quoted is not that CITR is a shit book and if you think it is then you've not understood what it's saying.

You're the cunt in this situation, sir.

I'm the cunt in every situation, that's not the point

I don't know man, going off of your first post it looks to me like you just came in here looking for a reaction and you got exactly that, now you're all mad about it.

[ohlovelyrita]

Salinger IS Holden

That is a huge statement that shouldn't be taken lightly, and it is almost an accusation. Do you have any reasons to say this at all?

I enjoyed your earlier commentary. I had meant to say so earlier.

In the beginning of this thread I talked about how Salinger dated Eugene O'Neil's daughter to be dumped

for Charlie Chaplin (Oona later had 8 of his kids). Imagine how he felt that she picked a man 36 years her senior

because he rich and famous. That's a mind-fuuck.

The biggest sign that Salinger is Holden is when he refuses a rewrite even if it jeopardizes his publishing contract.

You might feel differently but I think most who saw Solano's doc last year came away with that revelation.

Surely some authors don't put themselves in their character or base on real people but Holden and

Salinger both seem to not want to liked for the wrong reasons. Salinger did not want to a be a celebrity

as you know. However he did want to be a famous author. "The best laid plans......".

Edited March 9, 2014 by ohlovelyrita

[Guest Len B'stard]

I think you're the one whos being condescending here Lenny. It's just a book, and this is a thread for it, people who enjoyed the book are giving their reasons why they enjoyed it, where in the hell did anybody claim Catcher In The Rye is some sort of high form of literature?

What I was saying is a reaction to some of the ideas expressed in this thread, for instance Broski and his condescending bullshit about 'i imagine you don't read a lot and you don't strike me as the book reading type' and Ritas further assertion that people are intimidated by books, in response to a comment about me, that doesn't strike you as slightly condescending? People that read high school level books and develop a superiority complex about it? And furthermore this astonishment at the idea that some people might not've heard a Beatles song and behaving in a superior way just cuz you do. No ones said it's a high form of literature but when you start standing up and waving your cock about over this shit like it makes you fuckin' bookworm of the century perhaps you could do with reminding that you're not actually reading something thats especially substantial as literature goes.

I do not like to be talked down to and when i feel I'm being talked down to it gets on my tits. Perhaps just because someone doesn't go on about books 24/7 trying to impress people doesn't mean that they are illiterate. And the funniest bit about it is that it's over a fuckin' book off a high school reading list

You're in here overreacting and trying to tell everybody who's read the book and enjoyed it that it's a shit book

No I'm not, I'm reacting specifically to being spoken to or spoken about, were I in this thread just coming out with this shit for no reason then it would be condescending but I'm not…at all. The point of the post that you just quoted is not that CITR is a shit book and if you think it is then you've not understood what it's saying.

You're the cunt in this situation, sir.

I'm the cunt in every situation, that's not the point

I don't know man, going off of your first post it looks to me like you just came in here looking for a reaction and you got exactly that, now you're all mad about it.

Well i can't account for your mind reading skills I'm afraid

[AdriftatSea]

Salinger IS Holden

That is a huge statement that shouldn't be taken lightly, and it is almost an accusation. Do you have any reasons to say this at all?

Agree with Rita. Holden is Salinger, Catcher is semi-autobiographical. He checked Holden out of society just like he checked out. He couldn't handle society. Salinger - He had major PTSD from the war. People with PTSD have trouble integrating with society. I can't remember if he became a drug addict or not. If he wasn't on drugs, he needed to be on medication for his mental illness. He could have been helped.

[sweetness]

Well i can't account for your mind reading skills I'm afraid

seriously though, you come in here with this hardline stance based on a weak as all fuck argument and didn't expect to get any shit for it? You know this place better than that.

[Guest Len B'stard]

Well i can't account for your mind reading skills I'm afraid

seriously though, you come in here with this hardline stance based on a weak as all fuck argument and didn't expect to get any shit for it? You know this place better than that.

So because i was somewhat brusque in stating my position in the framework of a discussion that means that from that point forth, for as long as the discussion goes on, everything everybody says to me, no matter how wrong, inaccurate, stupid is validated by default, even if they're wrong?

And then to have someone like Rita, who i know to be fundamentally thick, someone that I've seen struggle with really really basic philosophical concepts and lines of logic, talking down to me, it's laughable more than anything

[ohlovelyrita]

Sugaraylen is here to fight with people 25% of the time.

I got 2 of his comments (one calling me a cunt) removed

the other day. Misogynists are so proud nowadays, they

are too cowardly to try that in real life!

He also says scathing things about Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses

yet easily spends 3 hours here a day. He actually admitted

here not to care what Axl is up to.

He even admitted to discovering Led Zeppelin late in life

yet proceeded to trash Robert Plant in a long tirade for no reason.

The more people that ignore the "bubbling over self-hate" here

the more pleasant this forum will be.

And he wasn't sure "Howl" was Ginsberg. That would be fine

if he didn't pretend to be an intellectual. I know i'm not

and happy to talk about what I like and like reading

balanced opinions. Not a fan of rudeness.

I dunno, i just think some things are best not fiddled with. Whats Howl, the Ginsberg poem?

[AdriftatSea]

Question: Did any of you know about the suicide with the guy that had his sweater?

[Guest Len B'stard]

Sugaraylen is here to fight with people 25% of the time.

I got 2 of his comments (one calling me a cunt) removed

the other day

Cunt 25% of the time eh? Well thats certainly impressive, 25%…not 24 or 23 or 26 maybe?

Misogynists are so proud nowadays, they

are too cowardly to try that in real life!

Langley Road, Watford Herts, WD17 4RP, anytime you fancy it

He also says scathing things about Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses

yet easily spends 3 hours here a day.

On weekdays I'm probably on her closer to 8 actually darlin.

He actually admitted

here not to care what Axl is up to.

Yeah, like the rest of the planet

He even admitted to discovering Led Zeppelin late in life

yet proceeded to trash Robert Plant in a long tirade for no reason.

No, i think you'll find there was a very specific reason my dear

And he wasn't sure "Howl" was Ginsberg

See what i mean about fundamentally thick? Wasted just said 'Howl' in a conversation about movies of beat books and i didn't know there was a movie called Howl so i said 'whats Howl, the Ginsberg poem?', use your fuckin' loaf Rita

So hows thats ignore function working for ya?

Edited March 9, 2014 by sugaraylen

[Guest Len B'stard]

Sugaraylen is here to fight with people 25% of the time.

I got 2 of his comments (one calling me a cunt) removed

the other day. Misogynists are so proud nowadays, they

are too cowardly to try that in real life!

He also says scathing things about Axl Rose and Guns N' Roses

yet easily spends 3 hours here a day. He actually admitted

here not to care what Axl is up to.

He even admitted to discovering Led Zeppelin late in life

yet proceeded to trash Robert Plant in a long tirade for no reason.

The more people that ignore the "bubbling over self-hate" here

the more pleasant this forum will be.

And he wasn't sure "Howl" was Ginsberg. That would be fine

if he didn't pretend to be an intellectual. I know i'm not

and happy to talk about what I like and like reading

balanced opinions. Not a fan of rudeness.

I dunno, i just think some things are best not fiddled with. Whats Howl, the Ginsberg poem?

He was talking about movies though wasn't he?

[sweetness]

So because i was somewhat brusque in stating my position in the framework of a discussion that means that from that point forth, for as long as the discussion goes on, everything everybody says to me, no matter how wrong, inaccurate, stupid is validated by default, even if they're wrong?

When what you're saying is wrong, inaccurate, and stupid... yes.

[Guest Len B'stard]

So because i was somewhat brusque in stating my position in the framework of a discussion that means that from that point forth, for as long as the discussion goes on, everything everybody says to me, no matter how wrong, inaccurate, stupid is validated by default, even if they're wrong?

When what you're saying is wrong, inaccurate, and stupid... yes.

I think that concludes our business here

[AdriftatSea]

Sugaraylen - I'm not responding as a quote to you because then Rita would see what you wrote and she has had you blocked for a long time per one of her posts. This is out of respect to Rita. I understand you were attacked first because you stated you haven't read the book and your opinion on why you haven't read the book - because of your strong, and understandable reasons of why the book holds painful memories of Lennon being murdered. That does indeed fall under this very topic of Opinions on Salinger's 'Catcher in the Rye' and imo you have every right to post your opinions here and why you haven't read it, do not want to read it and will not read it.

No one is wrong in their opinion here but WTF with all the insults and they are just about to get on my last nerve. Can't we all just get along and get back on topic now??

[ohlovelyrita]

Question: Did any of you know about the suicide with the guy that had his sweater?

Didn't know. Please share!

[ohlovelyrita]

Sugaraylen - I'm not responding as a quote to you because then Rita would see what you wrote and she has had you blocked for a long time per one of her posts. This is out of respect to Rita. I understand you were attacked first because you stated you haven't read the book and your opinion on why you haven't read the book - because of your strong, and understandable reasons of why the book holds painful memories of Lennon being murdered. That does indeed fall under this very topic of Opinions on Salinger's 'Catcher in the Rye' and imo you have every right to post your opinions here and why you haven't read it, do not want to read it and will not read it.

No one is wrong in their opinion here but WTF with all the insults and they are just about to get on my last nerve. Can't we all just get along and get back on topic now??

Thank you for not capturing his words, I do check his comments sometimes when he comes on my topics so I can report the trolling. Two get deleted last week and they were off-topic attacks talking about how miserable my life was. I wish the mods would forbid us to interact on every level.

I agree that even that opinion (altho bizarre) is valid as an opinion. It's equal to someone saying that they won't read CITR or watch Taxi Driver because of the assassination

attempt on Reagan.

[sweetness]

So because i was somewhat brusque in stating my position in the framework of a discussion that means that from that point forth, for as long as the discussion goes on, everything everybody says to me, no matter how wrong, inaccurate, stupid is validated by default, even if they're wrong?

When what you're saying is wrong, inaccurate, and stupid... yes.

I think that concludes our business here

Yeah, plus it's getting weird in here. I'm bailing

[AdriftatSea]

Sugaraylen - I'm not responding as a quote to you because then Rita would see what you wrote and she has had you blocked for a long time per one of her posts. This is out of respect to Rita. I understand you were attacked first because you stated you haven't read the book and your opinion on why you haven't read the book - because of your strong, and understandable reasons of why the book holds painful memories of Lennon being murdered. That does indeed fall under this very topic of Opinions on Salinger's 'Catcher in the Rye' and imo you have every right to post your opinions here and why you haven't read it, do not want to read it and will not read it.

No one is wrong in their opinion here but WTF with all the insults and they are just about to get on my last nerve. Can't we all just get along and get back on topic now??

Thank you for not capturing his words, I do check his comments sometimes when he comes on my topics so I can report the trolling. Two get deleted last week and they were off-topic attacks talking about how miserable my life was. I wish the mods would forbid us to interact on every level.

I agree that even that opinion (altho bizarre) is valid as an opinion. It's equal to someone saying that they won't read CITR or watch Taxi Driver because of the assassination

attempt on Reagan.

But Rita, his opinions of the book are on topic in this forum.

[ohlovelyrita]

Sugaraylen - I'm not responding as a quote to you because then Rita would see what you wrote and she has had you blocked for a long time per one of her posts. This is out of respect to Rita. I understand you were attacked first because you stated you haven't read the book and your opinion on why you haven't read the book - because of your strong, and understandable reasons of why the book holds painful memories of Lennon being murdered. That does indeed fall under this very topic of Opinions on Salinger's 'Catcher in the Rye' and imo you have every right to post your opinions here and why you haven't read it, do not want to read it and will not read it.

No one is wrong in their opinion here but WTF with all the insults and they are just about to get on my last nerve. Can't we all just get along and get back on topic now??

Thank you for not capturing his words, I do check his comments sometimes when he comes on my topics so I can report the trolling. Two get deleted last week and they were off-topic attacks talking about how miserable my life was. I wish the mods would forbid us to interact on every level.

I agree that even that opinion (altho bizarre) is valid as an opinion. It's equal to someone saying that they won't read CITR or watch Taxi Driver because of the assassination

attempt on Reagan.

But Rita, his opinions of the book are on topic in this forum.

Agreed, I said,"I agree that even that opinion (altho bizarre) is valid as an opinion."

[AdriftatSea]

Sugaraylen - I didn't mean I understood / agreed with why you were attacked. That was wrong. Attacking back, not good either though. Totally normal to stand up for yourself though. Please, I'm enjoying discussing this. Well, I was.

TO EVERYONE - PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTION ... does anyone here have knowledge of the guy with his sweater that committed suicide?