Yesterdays-Civil-War Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I don't believe that stuff about Peter and Ace not being able to play anymore shit, even with Ace being a drunk.KISS were at club level themselves before they got their "credibility" back with Ace and Peter returning.As for Psycho Circus, I forget if it's Ace or Peter who said that they were paid to not play on it - and I think it took a tantrum from Ace to get the 4 of them to play on Into The Void.Anyway, what a shit album that turned out to be.That's the bullest of bull shit. The Hot in the Shade tour was magnificent--their best in years, and Revenge and Carnival of Souls were arguably the most complete KISS albums since some of the first albums. Nothing about Bruce Kulick's guitar playing is what I consider "club level," same goes for Eric Carr's drumming. KISS did just fine selling out venues without Ace and Peter.Psycho Circus was halfway decent, very fitting sound for the time it came out. Them being paid not to be on the record was because of what I said earlier, both were at the time and always were before then, whiners and complainers. It's easier just to slap their faces on it and "credit" them; much like Unmasked for both of them and in solely Ace's case with Creatures of the Night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 You're right- KISS were doing so well they took a massive paycut and lost all the popularity they had gained from that "magnificence" by doing the Reunion.All those people were devastated Bruce and Eric Singer weren't in the band anymore, I remember all those "Bruce forever Frehley never!" signs people would picket shows with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays-Civil-War Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) You're right- KISS were doing so well they took a massive paycut and lost all the popularity they had gained from that "magnificence" by doing the Reunion.All those people were devastated Bruce and Eric Singer weren't in the band anymore, I remember all those "Bruce forever Frehley never!" signs people would picket shows with....Paycut? How do you figure? Their reunion tour sold better than what they were doing, not to say their numbers were atrocious before but it's understandable as to why a KISS reunion might do better than the original two plus two hired hands, same logic would apply to Guns N' Roses. Are you saying KISS took a paycut, KISS being Paul and Gene, because they decided to make Ace and Peter millionaires again? I'm pretty sure when it was all said and done, their reunion tour was probably their highest grossing tour ever, and that Paul and Gene didn't really take a paycut. Ace and Peter were on a salary as hired hands, Gene and Paul still made the lions share of the funds.I was devastated Bruce and Eric weren't in the band. I'll admit, I was ecstatic for the reunion tour, and deep down Bruce and Eric were as well and they knew it was coming even before MTV Unplugged, especially Bruce. My original point was that KISS has never played at a club level; that's not how the mentality of the group has ever worked nor will it ever allow, and I believe if they were playing at such a level they would have called it quits. (...although with Paul's voice in the shape it is in, after this tour it might be a good time to actually do that). KISS didn't get their credibility back with Ace and Peter, they hadn't lost it up to that point. (It can be argued now, however, that it is gone because Thayer and Eric are in Ace and Peter's makeup, that to me is pathetic). Ace and Peter got their credibility back by saying yes to Paul and Gene's offer. EDIT: In re-reading your statement I could see how the entire first line could be sarcastic. If that is the case, you can disregard my first paragraph for the most part. Edited March 31, 2014 by Yesterdays-Civil-War Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sarcastic to the max dude, no offense meant or taken.All I meant was that KISS were on the down and outs before MTV Unplugged and The Reunion- perhaps not club level, dramatization on my part but not in a good place.We seem to pretty much agree on everything else- I liked Carr, Bruce Kulick and Singer (maybe not in Peter's makeup) and Psycho Circus doesn't stand up to the albums they were on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayster138 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 also didnt Tommy Thayer have to teach Ace all his old KISS parts on guitar for the reunion tour? i seem to remember seeing video of this on the second coming video back in the day. I believe he had to teach ace how to play his old solo's and various other licks in the songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yesterdays-Civil-War Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 also didnt Tommy Thayer have to teach Ace all his old KISS parts on guitar for the reunion tour? i seem to remember seeing video of this on the second coming video back in the day. I believe he had to teach ace how to play his old solo's and various other licks in the songs.Yes, Ace relearned everything through Tommy. Around that time period Ace also decked Tommy in the face over some sort of disagreement/argument.Ed Kannon (Peter Criss' drum tech at the time) has said Tommy Thayer and Eric Singer are nice guys and any bashing of them (mainly referring to Peter's) as people is unfounded. I want to say that at one point or another along the road Bruce or Bob Kulick had to work with Ace like Tommy did as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom2112 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Sarcastic to the max dude, no offense meant or taken.All I meant was that KISS were on the down and outs before MTV Unplugged and The Reunion- perhaps not club level, dramatization on my part but not in a good place.We seem to pretty much agree on everything else- I liked Carr, Bruce Kulick and Singer (maybe not in Peter's makeup) and Psycho Circus doesn't stand up to the albums they were on.What's your take on sonic boom? I enjoyed it. Got to see them on tour in 2011 and the songs worked in the set, good mix of the 70s and 80s KISS in my opinion, kinda like a greatest hits record but with new songs and no hits Guns should make a record like that (with hits preferably) bridging Appetite, UYI and CD, that would be interesting and much closer to what people want than anything else they are likely to release (CD II, not that I would complain about a CD II release at this stage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 (edited) I think it was pretty damn good, great vintage sound.Honestly I haven't listened to it that much, but I know Modern Day Delilah well and it's a kick ass song (haven't heard Monster though)It certainly leaves Psycho Circus for dead.I can't stand Tommy and Eric in the other guy's makeup, but I don't really blame them as they are doing what their bosses tell them to.I've no doubt they are nice people.If they were allowed to have their own, like Carr and VV- no problem.Sure Tommy helped Ace relearn the songs, but it wasn't like Ace couldn't play anymore- he just hadn't played those songs for 15 years or whatever besides the few that Frehley's Comet would do. Edited March 31, 2014 by DR DOOM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayster138 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 yeah, i know that im not saying Ace couldnt play anymore, i just more find it interesting that Ace's replacement had the teach Ace initially how to be Ace i guess....caus i believe Tommy also had to teach him the old choreography as well. its like Tommy got a promotion...went from being a gopher for gene, to video production for kiss, to teaching ace the old kiss stuff and how to move like he did back then...and then got promoted to being Ace....I agree i wish they would have let them do their own makeup, but whatever i guess at this point the ace and peter designs are associated with the act now.....I heard thats why Bruce didnt rejoin when gene and paul approached him about it he wanted to do his own design and they were like "classic makeup is what sells now" or whatever...Monster wasnt bad of an album, Sonic Boom i really enjoyed though alot nice sound to it. I like that this has turned into a sort of KISS thread hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR DOOM Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Yeah Tommy Thayer is like a KISS encyclopedia or something?For all the "Gene and Paul are tyrants" they did go to lengths to keep Peter and Ace in the band first time around, that must be said in their favour.They begged Ace not to leave, and told him he was going to lose a lot of money doing it.Kinda like Axl's camp pleading with Slash not to go I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 The fact is, Ace is Kiss. He was the soul of that band - to a lesser degree, so was Pete. I refuse to believe that the material Ace came up with for Psycho Circus was inferior to the crap Gene and Paul dished out on that record (Into the Void is, by the way, the best song on that record). And much like what Axl fans do with Slash and Duff, tales of Ace's 'drunkeness' have been inflated. Ace's 1978 album was way better than any of the others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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