Embrace the hate - GnR 2012 shirt (reference to the forums?)

[Seb91]

None of these guys will ever establish an identity with the mainstream as the old guys had, in a peculiar way, they have more than an ample opportunity to do so with the colourful shadow of the old band hanging over them and outstanding catalogue of songs and notoriety, maximum exposure and alongside captain ahab rose. Unfortunately the hand that giveth is also shrouded in mystique and still prone to dysfunctional throes so the guys either move on due to boredom and frustration or remain in a static purgatory where the only progression has been a ten+ year record and old classics returning and dominating the set, as brilliant as the shows can be.

Bottom line, BBF, Ashba, Stinson, Dizzy, Pitman, Ferrer and 4TUS will never have opportunities to shine unless the line up stays as it is with three records in ten years released and promoted fully with half the set catering to new GNR. It will never be respected as an evolved band if Axl can't hold it together and record, BH and Finck era ended before the album release, should've followed it up in 2011 for a better chance and time on his side to mold and amend a new vision.

The time has gone for this band to be perceived as anything but Axl and Friends, as much potential as I believe they had in 2010 to cement their own legacy.

That momentum was killed by the last 4 years, I'd like to think they recorded 3 albums worth but I think we're still where we were then.

A remix album of Chinese Democracy is worthless and no one will buy it, bin it and get an EP out.

Agree 100% with this! I think Axl/GN'R needs to move on from CD and produce a completely new album. Having said that it would be cool to hear stuff from 'the vault', Axl could always do what Bob Dylan does and do a 'Bootleg Series' type for the leftovers from the CD era. Will never happen of course...

[RandallFlagg]

I firmly believe an album of two halves or two EP's has always been the pertinent way forward, not redoing parts or pigeonholing little scraps of new members in. It might also be a subconscious drawing out of not doing anything new for Axl. I mean CD is a brilliant record imo but that stuff wasn't made over 10 years, from what I've read and understand there were bursts of songwriting and Axl requested solos then he tinkered away for years and layered it. If he let the guys help him... which is kinda the point of being in GNR and have a solid base for over 5 years now... yet it seems he still doesn't even jam with them.

[SoulMonster]

My perception is that the general opinion is changing, albeit slowly, especially so in some countries (USA, perhaps), less so in others. I see more reviews and articles now where focus is actually on the current band and not what has happened before, like, say, 20 years ago. I also see in commentaries more people being positive towards the band than before. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. Time tends to heal all kinds of wounds and more importantly, make people forget, and the current band has been really active now in carving out its own identity

Here is what qualifies as a good review :

"Guns N' Roses (well, not the real Guns N' Roses) played a show last night. The only remaining original member is Axl Rose. His current band does a good enough job re-creating the classic material you all grew up with."

I don't consider that a particularly good review and that was not at all what I had in mind. Still, having followed the band for some time now and probably read more reviews than most fans, I do believe that the general media perception of the band has changed favourably. And this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone as long as the lineup is stable, there are few negative things happening, and the band keeps delivering good concerts showcasing songs from CD. Of course people will start not only accepting but also valuing the current band.

[D-GenerationX]

having followed the band for some time now and probably read more reviews than most fans, I do believe that the general media perception of the band has changed favourably. And this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone as long as the lineup is stable, there are few negative things happening, and the band keeps delivering good concerts showcasing songs from CD. Of course people will start not only accepting but also valuing the current band.

You do realize that you sound like an embattled camping manager, right?

The kind of guy that takes to the airwaves and says never mind all the polls that have his guy down 11 points in the polls with 3 days to go, because he has a hunch that everyone, literally, everyone but him is wrong?

[SoulMonster]

having followed the band for some time now and probably read more reviews than most fans, I do believe that the general media perception of the band has changed favourably. And this really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone as long as the lineup is stable, there are few negative things happening, and the band keeps delivering good concerts showcasing songs from CD. Of course people will start not only accepting but also valuing the current band.

You do realize that you sound like an embattled camping manager, right?

The kind of guy that takes to the airwaves and says never mind all the polls that have his guy down 11 points in the polls with 3 days to go, because he has a hunch that everyone, literally, everyone but him is wrong?

I don't really care about what you think I sound like.

If you don't agree that the general perception of GN'R has become more favourable in recent years then that is okay. Back in 2002 and 2006 the media, especially in the US, was very anti-GN'R, because the breakup of the UYI lineup was fresh(er) in mind, CD was only a myth, Axl was a hated reclusive, the new lineup was so radically different, and the tour had lots of problems. Now, post-2008, GN'R has done lots of good touring in USA, CD has been out some years, Axl has done some good media appearances and comes across as more likeable, and people are starting to recognize the band members. I could start listing reviews and articles that support this opinion of mine but frankly I can't be bothered. If you dismiss the general idea that the opinion will gradually sway the longer a negative experience is substituted with positive experiences, then I don't think there is anything I can do to change your mind.

[D-GenerationX]

If you don't agree that the general perception of GN'R has become more favourable in recent years then that is okay. Back in 2002 and 2006 the media, especially in the US, was very anti-GN'R, because the breakup of the UYI lineup was fresh(er) in mind, CD was only a myth, Axl was a hated reclusive, the new lineup was so radically different, and the tour had lots of problems. Now, post-2008, GN'R has done lots of good touring in USA, CD has been out some years, Axl has done some good media appearances and comes across as more likeable, and people are starting to recognize the band members. I could start listing reviews and articles that support this opinion of mine but frankly I can't be bothered. If you dismiss the general idea that the opinion will gradually sway the longer a negative experience is substituted with positive experiences, then I don't think there is anything I can do to change your mind.

More favorable than what? A complete punchline? Yeah, I guess if you started at rock bottom, only a quarter of the way up is progress.

Ask yourself this. If there is all this supposed acceptance, why has there not been a serious domestic tour in years? Because they can't sell the tickets, that's why. So we get residencies in super small venues in the most unique touristy town in the country.

Grab 20 people off the street, and not one could tell you a member other than Axl. Not one. No one can name a new song. No one can tell you a god damn thing about this current band.

Look, I get that you are a rose colored glasses sort of fella. If that helps you, good on ya. But reality does need to be heard from time and again, no?

[SoulMonster]

If you don't agree that the general perception of GN'R has become more favourable in recent years then that is okay. Back in 2002 and 2006 the media, especially in the US, was very anti-GN'R, because the breakup of the UYI lineup was fresh(er) in mind, CD was only a myth, Axl was a hated reclusive, the new lineup was so radically different, and the tour had lots of problems. Now, post-2008, GN'R has done lots of good touring in USA, CD has been out some years, Axl has done some good media appearances and comes across as more likeable, and people are starting to recognize the band members. I could start listing reviews and articles that support this opinion of mine but frankly I can't be bothered. If you dismiss the general idea that the opinion will gradually sway the longer a negative experience is substituted with positive experiences, then I don't think there is anything I can do to change your mind.

More favorable than what? A complete punchline? Yeah, I guess if you started at rock bottom, only a quarter of the way up is progress.

Ask yourself this. If there is all this supposed acceptance, why has there not been a serious domestic tour in years? Because they can't sell the tickets, that's why. So we get residencies in super small venues in the most unique touristy town in the country.

Grab 20 people off the street, and not one could tell you a member other than Axl. Not one. No one can name a new song. No one can tell you a god damn thing about this current band.

Look, I get that you are a rose colored glasses sort of fella. If that helps you, good on ya. But reality does need to be heard from time and again, no?

Yes, I was talking about more favourable as in more than before. I never said current GN'R is universally loved. Sorry if that alluded you.

What has not been serious about the recent US touring? And do you know what market saturation is? Besides, we are not talking about how many attend the shows but the general view on the band.

And whether 20 random people know much about current GN'R really doesn't in any way counter my opinion that the general perception on GN'R has become more favourable

[D-GenerationX]

What has not been serious about the recent US touring? And do you know what market saturation is? Besides, we are not talking about how many attend the shows but the general view on the band.

There is no general view of this band.

All people know is that Axl tours with a bunch of random people he calls Guns N' Roses who crank out 25 year old songs for him to sing live. That's the general view of this band.

But, on average, the general public has an EXTREMELY unfavorable opinion of this band. They don't take a lot of time to dwell on it. But if asked for their opinion, most won't give you but 15 seconds on the topic.

"Guns N' Roses? Which Guns N' Roses? The real Guns N' Roses or whatever that thing is Axl is taking around now?"

That is the typical reaction.

"Oh yeah, I love Guns N' Roses. I think Richard Fortus is a real find, and I think Frank Ferrer brings an interesting dynamic to the band."

That's not a thing. That's not a thing that is said by anyone, anywhere, ever.

[SoulMonster]

What has not been serious about the recent US touring? And do you know what market saturation is? Besides, we are not talking about how many attend the shows but the general view on the band.

There is no general view of this band.

All people know is that Axl tours with a bunch of random people he calls Guns N' Roses who crank out 25 year old songs for him to sing live. That's the general view of this band.

But, on average, the general public has an EXTREMELY unfavorable opinion of this band. They don't take a lot of time to dwell on it. But if asked for their opinion, most won't give you but 15 seconds on the topic.

"Guns N' Roses? Which Guns N' Roses? The real Guns N' Roses or whatever that thing is Axl is taking around now?"

That is the typical reaction.

"Oh yeah, I love Guns N' Roses. I think Richard Fortus is a real find, and I think Frank Ferrer brings an interesting dynamic to the band."

That's not a thing. That's not a thing that is said by anyone, anywhere, ever.

I found it entertaining how you first claimed there is no general opinion and then continued by telling me what it is

Still, to repeat myself, I have never claimed the general opinion is favourable, only that it is MORE favourable.

[Apollo]

D-Generation - your examples aren't even far enough.

Go to any music related online site and read the comments when they post a GnR story. Go look at the comments to the story about Axl being the greatest singer of all time. Even on DJ's facebook page, the majority of the comments were negative.

If you take out the GnR die-hard fans, the ones who would pay to go see Axl in concert regardless of who was backing him........there is as much negativity and hate spewed his way as I've ever seen. I would bet it is in the Justin Bieber and Kim Kardashian range.

Yes, people are still bashing him for being three-hours late and for breaking up with Slash. Is that ignorant on their part? Sure, maybe. But the sad thing is that some rock fans are still hung up on those things, simply because Axl hasn't done anything to erase those memories. If Axl had released five killer albums (instead of just one), produced a slew of hits, and was more media friendly - then people would be more apt to forget his past and concentrate on his current activities.

If he had turned in A-plus performances at the RnR Hall of Fame, the various Rock n Rios, the Revolver awards, done several high profile interviews, released five kick ass albums, and kept a stable line-up of musicians.........most of the slash-hate and three-hour late hate would have disappeared years ago.

[D-GenerationX]

D-Generation - your examples aren't even far enough.

Go to any music related online site and read the comments when they post a GnR story. Go look at the comments to the story about Axl being the greatest singer of all time. Even on DJ's facebook page, the majority of the comments were negative.

If you take out the GnR die-hard fans, the ones who would pay to go see Axl in concert regardless of who was backing him........there is as much negativity and hate spewed his way as I've ever seen. I would bet it is in the Justin Bieber and Kim Kardashian range.

Yes, people are still bashing him for being three-hours late and for breaking up with Slash. Is that ignorant on their part? Sure, maybe. But the sad thing is that some rock fans are still hung up on those things, simply because Axl hasn't done anything to erase those memories. If Axl had released five killer albums (instead of just one), produced a slew of hits, and was more media friendly - then people would be more apt to forget his past and concentrate on his current activities.

If he had turned in A-plus performances at the RnR Hall of Fame, the various Rock n Rios, the Revolver awards, done several high profile interviews, released five kick ass albums, and kept a stable line-up of musicians.........most of the slash-hate and three-hour late hate would have disappeared years ago.

So spot on.

[Apollo]

D-Gen that's what is disheartening as a die-hard fan.

Axl still has the talent and skills to change it all.

Two albums in the next couple of years. Do the awards shows and interviews.

He could easily shut down 90% of the critics.

But for some reason, he and Beta seem to always choose to go the opposite route that any other band would do.