Major League Baseball Thread - 2018 Season

[downzy]

man i thought going into detroit a split would have been a stretch but now the yanks have a chance to win the series. the first game still pisses me off though.

IMO, Detroit has been overachieving to begin the season. They're a good team, but they're not that good. Lot's of good things for the Yanks of late, but it's going to be interesting to watch whether they too can over perform (like they did last year) considering their current roster.

The only team in the AL East who has (when healthy) a stellar pitching staff is the Rays. It's too bad for them they can't score any runs (unless they're playing at the Rogers Centre, of course). Jays have offence and defence, but their starting rotation is just so damn young and inconsistent (and their bullpen is nothing to write home about). Yanks should be five plus or minus games around .500 when the season ends. Red Sox have defence, and their bats are decent but not as potent as the Jays and the Orioles. Baltimore has the offence, but pitching is a big question mark for them. Gausman looks like a solid pitcher and should find himself in Baltimore's starting sooner rather than later. IMO, their pitching has declined since last year, and losing Cruz and Markakis makes them significantly weaker.

Had Stroman not tore his ACL I think the Jays would be strong contenders for the division. But since they're stuck with Sanchez and Norris, neither who are clearly ready for a prime time starting position spot (though Sanchez only allowed two hits in a little more than five innings of work, he still allowed seven walks). Still early, but I think it's a toss up between Boston and Toronto to win the division.

Regardless, my bet is whoever does end up winning the AL East will likely get trounced if they make it to the AL Championship series.

[classicrawker]

Yankees looking like the Bronx Bombers early pounding the Tigers and leading the league in Homer's. I know it is early but they sure are surprising me so far and I think the AL East will be wide open this year

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that after tonight's game the Jays lead the league in Home Runs. Jays have 21 (they hit two tonight), Yankees have 20. Baltimore is third.

I was off, Jays have 21, and I believe the Yanks will have 21 after their game with Detroit.

Crazy that three teams in one division lead the league in homers.

Before tonight games the Yanks had 20 and Toronto 19. So they may be tied as the Jays hit 2 and the Yanks hit 1 so I believe they are tied at 21.

You're quick with the corrections Downey.

1. Yes, I'm quick.

2. It's Downzy (or are you just winding me up?).

2. Wind you up by mispelling your name? Not my style Downzy... .........in fact I corrected the spelling within a few minutes of my original post but your typing is too quick for me so our posts must have crossed in cyberspace.

Back on topic every team in the AL East is flawed in some way which should make it interesting down to the wire. I did not have much hope for the Yankees going into the spring but if they can stay reasonably healthy, a BIG if, I think they should make it interesting.

They need some of the youngsters in Scranton and Trenton to develop in case of the inevitable injuries happen so they have some talent to plug in to fill the holes. I have no delusions of them being a championship caliber team but I think they will be more entertaining then I originally expected.

[bt88]

"Buying your way into the post season" is such an outdated way to look at things. The Red Sox specifically embraced analytics and that lead to a major turnaround. Yes they can afford to miss on a contract and still be okay but you can still spend your money poorly. Look at the recent Mets for example. Or the Phillies. The Giants are a top 10 but below the big spenders. Plus look at the Cardinals or last years royals. Salary helps but guarantees nothing

[axlslash]

"Buying your way into the post season" is such an outdated way to look at things. The Red Sox specifically embraced analytics and that lead to a major turnaround. Yes they can afford to miss on a contract and still be okay but you can still spend your money poorly. Look at the recent Mets for example. Or the Phillies. The Giants are a top 10 but below the big spenders. Plus look at the Cardinals or last years royals. Salary helps but guarantees nothing

I'm not sure the Mets particularly deserve to be tarred as "spending their money poorly." They're the best team in baseball right now, less than a decade after being nearly bankrupted by Bernie Madoff (though admittedly there's room for debate as to whether or not the front office was complicit in turning a blind eye to lots of early warning signs that they were getting Ponzi'ed). They've had some albatrosses on their payroll, for sure, but I'm not sure they've really been all that wasteful. I'm a Cubs fan. We still haven't recovered from the Jim Hendry years. Edwin Jackson still makes too damn much money for a decent starter, to say nothing of how shitty he actually is. We had Soriano making 10 plus per year for him to hit .230 and strike out in the clutch. I have a high bar for wasteful spending, and I'm not sure the Mets qualify.

Now, having gone to college in Philly and feeling a certain affinity for them...yeah, Ruben Amaro is goddamned brain dead when it comes to using his checkbook.

[DirtyDeeds]

How about dem Mets, huh?

[Apollo]

"Buying your way into the post season" is such an outdated way to look at things. The Red Sox specifically embraced analytics and that lead to a major turnaround. Yes they can afford to miss on a contract and still be okay but you can still spend your money poorly. Look at the recent Mets for example. Or the Phillies. The Giants are a top 10 but below the big spenders. Plus look at the Cardinals or last years royals. Salary helps but guarantees nothing

LOL, you need to go bark up a different tree. I don't care if you disagree with me regarding sports, but if you are gonna try and disprove things that I post then you really need to step up your game, son.

LOL - the Red Sox are probably the worst example you could have used. In their three World Series championships over the last 15 years the Sox payroll in their title seasons were: 2nd, 2nd and 4th. Analytics are awesome, never said that they weren't. But it also helps if you have the second highest payroll in baseball. There is a reason Boston wins championships and Oakland doesn't. Having the 2nd highest payroll in baseball helps solve a lot of problems.

So let's look at the past 15 years since Moneyball became popular.

Number of times a team not in the top 50% of payroll has won a world series: ONE

9 out of those 15 years a team in the top 10 in payroll won the championship.

Point out one place where I said that salary guarantees you a World Series championship? The higher your payroll is, the better chance you have of putting BETTER talent on the field. Teams that have better talent on the field have a better chance to win games. Does it guarantee you a world series win? Nope. To deny this shows that you have no clue how sports work.

You also left out the point where I said that I prefer younger players over high prized veterans.

One small market team in the past 15 years has won the world series.

Red Sox championship years: 2nd highest payroll, 2nd highest payroll, 4th highest payroll.

Facts speak for themselves.

Money gives you a better chance to win. But it doesn't guarantee success. LOL, you are debating a point that you actually agree with. SMH.

[downzy]

Apollo, your post above is a perfect example of unnecessary condescension and acrimony.

Calling people "son," and telling them to step up their game really isn't necessary.

Nobody is trying to "disprove" anything, it's just a discussion and debate about a game.

Let's leave the acrimony out of it for next time.

[downzy]

Yankees looking like the Bronx Bombers early pounding the Tigers and leading the league in Homer's. I know it is early but they sure are surprising me so far and I think the AL East will be wide open this year

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that after tonight's game the Jays lead the league in Home Runs. Jays have 21 (they hit two tonight), Yankees have 20. Baltimore is third.

I was off, Jays have 21, and I believe the Yanks will have 21 after their game with Detroit.

Crazy that three teams in one division lead the league in homers.

Before tonight games the Yanks had 20 and Toronto 19. So they may be tied as the Jays hit 2 and the Yanks hit 1 so I believe they are tied at 21.

You're quick with the corrections Downey.

1. Yes, I'm quick.

2. It's Downzy (or are you just winding me up?).

2. Wind you up by mispelling your name? Not my style Downzy... .........in fact I corrected the spelling within a few minutes of my original post but your typing is too quick for me so our posts must have crossed in cyberspace.

Back on topic every team in the AL East is flawed in some way which should make it interesting down to the wire. I did not have much hope for the Yankees going into the spring but if they can stay reasonably healthy, a BIG if, I think they should make it interesting.

They need some of the youngsters in Scranton and Trenton to develop in case of the inevitable injuries happen so they have some talent to plug in to fill the holes. I have no delusions of them being a championship caliber team but I think they will be more entertaining then I originally expected.

Yeah, it's a nice break from the previous decade where, for the most part, the Yankees and Red Sox were significantly stronger than the remaining teams in the division. Tampa caught only as a result of being so terrible for so many years and drafting well. It's going to be interesting to watch what happens with the Yankees. Are they going to embrace the new trend of stats over spending and will fans allow for rebuilding years? The Toronto Maple Leafs have been experiencing something similar the past four seasons in that they can't stick to the rebuilding plan because "Leaf Nation" want a winner immediately. So the team gets stuck with expensive players who don't fit well on the team.

I don't know enough about other teams farm system but I've been impressed with what the Jays have been doing of late. Next season the Jays are going to have four starters under 25 (assuming they remain healthy) who could eventually turn into 15-20 game winners. They've got a lot of young defensive talent both in the infield (Travis, Donaldson) and outfield (Pompey, Pillar). The big question for the Jays is how they replace some of the firepower that will likely be leaving the team (this is the contract year for both EE and Bautista, though the club has an option year for both). At least if EE and Bautista leave the team after 2015 it won't be a complete rebuild as the next generation of Jays are already logging a lot of playing time in the majors.

[bt88]

Arrogance aside, lets start with the example of 2013

Payrolls: http://deadspin.com/2013-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-462765594

1: Yankees- missed playoffs

2- LA Dodgers- lost in NLCS to the 11th highest salaried team, the Cardinals

3- Philly- missed playoffs

4- Red Sox- won world series

5- Tigers- Lost in ALCS

6- SF- missed playoffs

7- Angels- missed playoffs

Other playoff teams: Tampa (3rd lowest payroll) Cleveland (bottom 1/3) Pittsburgh (4th lowest) Oakland who won their division over the BIG BAD SPENDING Angels (5th lowest payroll) Cincy- mid pack, Atlanta, mid pack.

Of the 10 playoff teams , only 3 were in the top 10 payrolls.

For 2014

http://deadspin.com/2014-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-1551868969

KC- 19th in payroll

Oakland- 25th

Baltimore- 15

Detroit- 5th

Angels- 6th

Pitt- 27th

San Fran- 7th

Washington- 9th

Dodgers- 1st

St Louis- 13th

Again, the majority came from the bottom half. The highest salaries 2-4 all missed the playoffs. Furthermore, the giants were seen as an outlier but got hot at the right time. No one expected them to win. It's been well documented the playoffs are a crapshoot due to the small sample size, and with the 2 wild cards, all you need to do is get in. And it's very clear that low payroll teams have a chance to get in.

And I know the counter is that "why have the high payroll teams won in these examples." Well lets look at the giants. If you wanna talk about talent on the field, Mad Bum was their stud and he was home grown. The series went 7 games. Sometimes things swing your way. Same with the 2013 red sox. Teams don't go from last to first often. Contracts like the victorino and Napoli ones were classic buy low, get a career season out of old guys, something smart GMs can do. These werent the expensive contracts. Their biggest contracts recently were Crawford and Gonzalez, and look what happened to them. Can high payroll teams afford better GMs? Sometimes. Sometimes not (ahem Ruben Amaro). So it takes savvy drafting and roster construction as much as it does money. Look at the Pirates and their shifting, the Royals trade of Wil Myers, the A's constant reshuffling or the Rays homegrown talent in recent years for examples. Talent comes in a lot of ways. This forum has been deep with the cubs love, did their talent come from big money or drafting and trades? Exactly

LOL SMH

Edited April 23, 2015 by bt88

[bran]

3 out of 4 from detroit

[bt88]

Bran what's up with Tex? He never hits in April. Crazy.

[bran]

Bran what's up with Tex? He never hits in April. Crazy.

good question

he said a couple of years ago he was doing some things different to have a better start and it seemed to be working but then he got hurt. it seems now he is somewhat healthy and things are paying off.

[downzy]

What is up with KC? First with the A's, now the White Sox? These guys realize it's only April, right?

http://m.mlb.com/video/v86661883/kccws-tempers-flare-in-chicago-as-benches-clear

BTW, Donaldson hit a 481 foot bomb tonight at the Rogers Centre. According to MLB.com's Gameday, it's the longest home run hit this year in the majors. Something tells me Donaldson is going to like his new home in Toronto compared to what most A's batters suffer through at the big O.

[bt88]

Both of the Royals incidents recently involve Ventura in some way. Did you get a sense of why Ventura jawed at Eaton? He just seems like a hot head to me. Though that said I could see why the Royals went after Lawrie...once. Not twice.

What do you all think of the "code" in baseball? I mean seeing incidents like that is fun sometimes as a fan but is it not dumb that guys get mad at people for bat flipping or getting excited about stuff like home runs? If you hit a home run you should be able to celebrate. You're playing a game at a high level and emotions come in to play. Same with football when a guy makes a tackle or gets a pick and celebrates and people are like "calm down! stop being flashy! do your job!" Your adrenaline is rushing and you're supposed to fall in line like a drone? High emotions make sports fun. The "code" is starting to feel archaic

This Derek Norris/Angel Pagan incident is one that is just stupid: http://deadspin.com/heres-two-baseball-players-acting-like-lil-babies-1696968040

Edited April 24, 2015 by bt88

[magisme]

I wonder if it will be as fun to be a Mets fan when we stop playing AAA teams.

[axlslash]

What do you all think of the "code" in baseball? I mean seeing incidents like that is fun sometimes as a fan but is it not dumb that guys get mad at people for bat flipping or getting excited about stuff like home runs? If you hit a home run you should be able to celebrate. You're playing a game at a high level and emotions come in to play. Same with football when a guy makes a tackle or gets a pick and celebrates and people are like "calm down! stop being flashy! do your job!" Your adrenaline is rushing and you're supposed to fall in line like a drone? High emotions make sports fun. The "code" is starting to feel archaic

Chris Rock perfectly articulated my feelings on the "code" on Real Sports this week. It's killing the game before our eyes and perpetuating institutionalized racism at the same time.

http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/04/chris-rock-race-baseball-video/

Edited April 24, 2015 by axlslash

[bt88]

What do you all think of the "code" in baseball? I mean seeing incidents like that is fun sometimes as a fan but is it not dumb that guys get mad at people for bat flipping or getting excited about stuff like home runs? If you hit a home run you should be able to celebrate. You're playing a game at a high level and emotions come in to play. Same with football when a guy makes a tackle or gets a pick and celebrates and people are like "calm down! stop being flashy! do your job!" Your adrenaline is rushing and you're supposed to fall in line like a drone? High emotions make sports fun. The "code" is starting to feel archaic

Chris Rock perfectly articulated my feelings on the "code" on Real Sports this week. It's kilong the game before our eyes and perpetuating institutionalized racism at the same time.

http://uproxx.com/sports/2015/04/chris-rock-race-baseball-video/

That is perfect, nice bring. "Baseball wants everything to stay the way it used to be."

Its interesting to think about that in the context of the stat cast, analytics and the pace of game rules. Despite developments, still a long way to go.

[ronaldo9]

Both of the Royals incidents recently involve Ventura in some way. Did you get a sense of why Ventura jawed at Eaton? He just seems like a hot head to me. Though that said I could see why the Royals went after Lawrie...once. Not twice.

What do you all think of the "code" in baseball? I mean seeing incidents like that is fun sometimes as a fan but is it not dumb that guys get mad at people for bat flipping or getting excited about stuff like home runs? If you hit a home run you should be able to celebrate. You're playing a game at a high level and emotions come in to play. Same with football when a guy makes a tackle or gets a pick and celebrates and people are like "calm down! stop being flashy! do your job!" Your adrenaline is rushing and you're supposed to fall in line like a drone? High emotions make sports fun. The "code" is starting to feel archaic

This Derek Norris/Angel Pagan incident is one that is just stupid: http://deadspin.com/heres-two-baseball-players-acting-like-lil-babies-1696968040

Not a fan of the code. These are professional athletes playing a game for a living. They are essentially entertainers. I like the the belief of you don't like the opposing player celebrating, then don't get beat by them and give them a reason to celebrate. A lot of it seems childish. Hate it especially when it can potentially cause injuries. Two years ago, Pittsburgh thought that Chapman intentionally threw at McCutchen (forget the exact situation, but it was one of those where common sense tells you that the last thing Chapman wanted to do was put the batter on base type of thing). Despite being a situation in which Chapman wouldn't want to hit McCutchen, Clint Hurdle decided to retaliate based on the code. With Dusty Baker on the other side--two old school managers--it turned into a season long bean war, which got a little tiresome to watch and really frustrating when Phillips got injured after being hit on the wrist during the final stretch of the season. He still played, but his bat was rendered useless for the final month or so of the year, thanks to the code starting a bean war that didn't even involve him in the first place. Was frustrating to watch.

[downzy]

Some parts of the code are good, others I could do without. The eye for an eye thing has to stop. Intentionally hitting another player and possibly causing them injury just because a player on your team go drilled seems juvenile and unnecessary. They should punish the pitcher who retaliates far worse than the pitcher who instigated.

I don't have much of a problem with bat tipping and some of the jerk moves that Bautista pulled this week after he smoked a ball over the fence following a pitch that sailed behind him. I think a little drama like that is fun so long as it doesn't result in people getting plunked.

Where I like the code is when celebration turns into taunting. I think it was last year O'Day struck Bautista out and started celebrating. Fine. But when he turns to Bautista and starts chirping him as part of his celebration, well, that's going a little far. One thing to celebrate, another thing to taunt the opposing player. Mind you, it was fun watching Bautista the next day tee-off on one of O'Days pitches and then give him the chirping hand gesture as he rounded third and headed for home.

Other parts of the code I think are nice, but I suppose somewhat unnecessary. I know it's custom to allow a free pitch to a pitcher who just gave up back-to-back homers. While I think it's a classy move, it's something that probably isn't necessary.

[axlslash]

Some parts of the code are good, others I could do without. The eye for an eye thing has to stop. Intentionally hitting another player and possibly causing them injury just because a player on your team go drilled seems juvenile and unnecessary. They should punish the pitcher who retaliates far worse than the pitcher who instigated.

I don't have much of a problem with bat tipping and some of the jerk moves that Bautista pulled this week after he smoked a ball over the fence following a pitch that sailed behind him. I think a little drama like that is fun so long as it doesn't result in people getting plunked.

Where I like the code is when celebration turns into taunting. I think it was last year O'Day struck Bautista out and started celebrating. Fine. But when he turns to Bautista and starts chirping him as part of his celebration, well, that's going a little far. One thing to celebrate, another thing to taunt the opposing player. Mind you, it was fun watching Bautista the next day tee-off on one of O'Days pitches and then give him the chirping hand gesture as he rounded third and headed for home.

Other parts of the code I think are nice, but I suppose somewhat unnecessary. I know it's custom to allow a free pitch to a pitcher who just gave up back-to-back homers. While I think it's a classy move, it's something that probably isn't necessary.

There's a difference between "the Code" and being a good sportsman. I think you can celebrate when you do something big, have fun, but still not kick a guy unnecessarily when he's down. You can still decide not to run up the score, still give a pitcher a break in a tough spot, still take your big home run hitter out when you're up by 5 in the 8th inning, but let the game be loose and fun at the same time. Baseball bores people because nothing happens in between pitches, and nothing happens in between pitches because there are these stupid fucking tight-ass unwritten rules that say "don't smile or the pitcher will think you're gloating, and if you missed a belt loop on your uniform you can expect to get beaned." It's getting ridiculous.

[bt88]

Other parts of the code I think are nice, but I suppose somewhat unnecessary. I know it's custom to allow a free pitch to a pitcher who just gave up back-to-back homers. While I think it's a classy move, it's something that probably isn't necessary.

Wait thats really part of the code? The back to back homers thing? Huh thats very interesting. Seems weird in the spirit of competition, but i kinda respect it. Kinda like in hockey where if someone is coming out from behind the net with their head down you just dont lay into them (unless you're Colby Armstrong)

Also I do kinda like in the NL how there's a code that pitchers dont throw each other junk or off speed stuff. Its nice to think the pitcher may get on base. Also I am not a fan of NL baseball so maybe thats just me wanting to see something come out of the pitcher's spot

[magisme]

Baseball has never been a gentleman's sport. That's one of the good things about it.

[Apollo]

Arrogance aside, lets start with the example of 2013

Payrolls: http://deadspin.com/2013-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-462765594

1: Yankees- missed playoffs

2- LA Dodgers- lost in NLCS to the 11th highest salaried team, the Cardinals

3- Philly- missed playoffs

4- Red Sox- won world series

5- Tigers- Lost in ALCS

6- SF- missed playoffs

7- Angels- missed playoffs

Other playoff teams: Tampa (3rd lowest payroll) Cleveland (bottom 1/3) Pittsburgh (4th lowest) Oakland who won their division over the BIG BAD SPENDING Angels (5th lowest payroll) Cincy- mid pack, Atlanta, mid pack.

Of the 10 playoff teams , only 3 were in the top 10 payrolls.

For 2014

http://deadspin.com/2014-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-1551868969

KC- 19th in payroll

Oakland- 25th

Baltimore- 15

Detroit- 5th

Angels- 6th

Pitt- 27th

San Fran- 7th

Washington- 9th

Dodgers- 1st

St Louis- 13th

Again, the majority came from the bottom half. The highest salaries 2-4 all missed the playoffs. Furthermore, the giants were seen as an outlier but got hot at the right time. No one expected them to win. It's been well documented the playoffs are a crapshoot due to the small sample size, and with the 2 wild cards, all you need to do is get in. And it's very clear that low payroll teams have a chance to get in.

And I know the counter is that "why have the high payroll teams won in these examples." Well lets look at the giants. If you wanna talk about talent on the field, Mad Bum was their stud and he was home grown. The series went 7 games. Sometimes things swing your way. Same with the 2013 red sox. Teams don't go from last to first often. Contracts like the victorino and Napoli ones were classic buy low, get a career season out of old guys, something smart GMs can do. These werent the expensive contracts. Their biggest contracts recently were Crawford and Gonzalez, and look what happened to them. Can high payroll teams afford better GMs? Sometimes. Sometimes not (ahem Ruben Amaro). So it takes savvy drafting and roster construction as much as it does money. Look at the Pirates and their shifting, the Royals trade of Wil Myers, the A's constant reshuffling or the Rays homegrown talent in recent years for examples. Talent comes in a lot of ways. This forum has been deep with the cubs love, did their talent come from big money or drafting and trades? Exactly

LOL SMH

How many small market clubs have won the world series in the last 15 years?

I didn't see you mention my facts about Boston (since you brought up Boston in the first place).

It's easy to bring up 1-2 examples every year and use that as your barometer. Hey, KC made the playoffs last year and they are a small market team. Yankees have a huge payroll and they suck. Der, der, der.

Why do the other major sports use a salary cap, if overall team salary doesn't matter???

The funny thing about you....or the sad thing.....is that half the time your examples PROVE MY POINT!!!! It's hilarious to watch.

Let me make it really simple for you to understand. Arrogance aside (what a stupid thing to say).

Buying better players - every team wants to do that. If not then free agency wouldn't exist.

Having more talented players gives you a better chance to win. Only a complete moron would disagree with that.

Having the most "talented" or "expensive" team doesn't mean you will win, but it puts you in a better position to win. The last 15 years of the MLB prove that.

If you aren't in the top half of the payroll numbers, your odds of winning the world series are almost nil. One team in the last 15 years. That's a FACT, not an opinion.

Me personally? Like I've said SEVERAL times, I love young hungry players over high priced veterans. The reason the Dodgers, with their high payroll, have failed the last couple of years is because they have too many fat cat lazy veterans on the their rosters. Even now, youngster Guerreo has FOUR home runs and 12-rbis in 16 at-bats. But Mattingly won't sit veteran Uribe who is in his mid-30s and off to a rough start. That's what is going to hold back LA, Mattingly prefers veterans to younger players.

Look, you can keep trying to argue with everything I say. It's funny, because half of what you say is actually agreeing with me, and half of what you say actually proves your points wrong. It's fascinating to watch. And half the time I'm not even sure what your argument is, because you are going off on a tangent about something I didn't even say.

But you keep that personal grudge going, boyeee.

**************

The Code thing is a little overblown, imo. Just play the game the right way, and respect the game and your opponent. Players also need to SUCK it up. If you give up a game-winning homer, then don't get pissed off if the batter celebrates a little. Look at the NBA. A guy practically has an orgasm if he throws down a dunk in the 2nd quarter. Does he then get undercutted the next time he drives the lane?

One time in a little league game my team was getting killed, like 20-1 or something. It was at night, cold and raining. There is a "code" or unwritten rule that you stop stealing bases when you take a 10 run lead. The other team kept stealing bases and was playing really aggressive. So I started changed pitchers for every batter and used guys who had never pitched before. Next batter - I switched pitchers. Which involved players shuffling positions, pitcher getting his warm-up pitches. About a five minute process. The kid, who never pitched before, would promptly walk the guy on four straight pitches. Then I'd bring in another non-pitcher and go through the process again. After about the fourth pitching change and now a 30-minute long half-inning, the other team's coach came over and said "I got it, I got it." And I stopped with the pitching changes and he stopped stealing bases. His son actually came over and apologized after the game and said the players didn't want to keep stealing.

Let the two players "fight" who are involved in a beaning situation, like they do in hockey. Once that happened, all of these fake brawls would stop, and a lot of the beanings and crap would come to an end.

The best way to shut up a guy who is a jerk or who taunts or who overly celebrates is to beat him - with a home run, a strike out, for your team to win. All this flexing of the muscles stuff is stupid.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Apollo

[bt88]

I also dont agree with "playing the game the right way" and a lot of people say that, I am picturing Bob Nightengale from USA Today. his version of playing the game the right way is to do the opposite of Puig. Puig plays the game the "wrong" way in his eyes. And thats exactly what the Chris Rock video was talking about. The boring, stodgy version of the game isn't helping increase the sport at all

Edited April 24, 2015 by downzy
Removed content unrelated to the topic

[downzy]

Arrogance aside, lets start with the example of 2013

Payrolls: http://deadspin.com/2013-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-462765594

1: Yankees- missed playoffs

2- LA Dodgers- lost in NLCS to the 11th highest salaried team, the Cardinals

3- Philly- missed playoffs

4- Red Sox- won world series

5- Tigers- Lost in ALCS

6- SF- missed playoffs

7- Angels- missed playoffs

Other playoff teams: Tampa (3rd lowest payroll) Cleveland (bottom 1/3) Pittsburgh (4th lowest) Oakland who won their division over the BIG BAD SPENDING Angels (5th lowest payroll) Cincy- mid pack, Atlanta, mid pack.

Of the 10 playoff teams , only 3 were in the top 10 payrolls.

For 2014

http://deadspin.com/2014-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-1551868969

KC- 19th in payroll

Oakland- 25th

Baltimore- 15

Detroit- 5th

Angels- 6th

Pitt- 27th

San Fran- 7th

Washington- 9th

Dodgers- 1st

St Louis- 13th

Again, the majority came from the bottom half. The highest salaries 2-4 all missed the playoffs. Furthermore, the giants were seen as an outlier but got hot at the right time. No one expected them to win. It's been well documented the playoffs are a crapshoot due to the small sample size, and with the 2 wild cards, all you need to do is get in. And it's very clear that low payroll teams have a chance to get in.

And I know the counter is that "why have the high payroll teams won in these examples." Well lets look at the giants. If you wanna talk about talent on the field, Mad Bum was their stud and he was home grown. The series went 7 games. Sometimes things swing your way. Same with the 2013 red sox. Teams don't go from last to first often. Contracts like the victorino and Napoli ones were classic buy low, get a career season out of old guys, something smart GMs can do. These werent the expensive contracts. Their biggest contracts recently were Crawford and Gonzalez, and look what happened to them. Can high payroll teams afford better GMs? Sometimes. Sometimes not (ahem Ruben Amaro). So it takes savvy drafting and roster construction as much as it does money. Look at the Pirates and their shifting, the Royals trade of Wil Myers, the A's constant reshuffling or the Rays homegrown talent in recent years for examples. Talent comes in a lot of ways. This forum has been deep with the cubs love, did their talent come from big money or drafting and trades? Exactly

LOL SMH

How many small market clubs have won the world series in the last 15 years?

I didn't see you mention my facts about Boston (since you brought up Boston in the first place).

It's easy to bring up 1-2 examples every year and use that as your barometer. Hey, KC made the playoffs last year and they are a small market team. Yankees have a huge payroll and they suck. Der, der, der.

Why do the other major sports use a salary cap, if overall team salary doesn't matter???

The funny thing about you....or the sad thing.....is that half the time your examples PROVE MY POINT!!!! It's hilarious to watch.

Let me make it really simple for you to understand. Arrogance aside (what a stupid thing to say).

Buying better players - every team wants to do that. If not then free agency wouldn't exist.

Having more talented players gives you a better chance to win. Only a complete moron would disagree with that.

Having the most "talented" or "expensive" team doesn't mean you will win, but it puts you in a better position to win. The last 15 years of the MLB prove that.

If you aren't in the top half of the payroll numbers, your odds of winning the world series are almost nil. One team in the last 15 years. That's a FACT, not an opinion.

Me personally? Like I've said SEVERAL times, I love young hungry players over high priced veterans. The reason the Dodgers, with their high payroll, have failed the last couple of years is because they have too many fat cat lazy veterans on the their rosters. Even now, youngster Guerreo has FOUR home runs and 12-rbis in 16 at-bats. But Mattingly won't sit veteran Uribe who is in his mid-30s and off to a rough start. That's what is going to hold back LA, Mattingly prefers veterans to younger players.

Look, you can keep trying to argue with everything I say. It's funny, because half of what you say is actually agreeing with me, and half of what you say actually proves your points wrong. It's fascinating to watch. And half the time I'm not even sure what your argument is, because you are going off on a tangent about something I didn't even say.

But you keep that personal grudge going, boyeee.

**************

The Code thing is a little overblown, imo. Just play the game the right way, and respect the game and your opponent. Players also need to SUCK it up. If you give up a game-winning homer, then don't get pissed off if the batter celebrates a little. Look at the NBA. A guy practically has an orgasm if he throws down a dunk in the 2nd quarter. Does he then get undercutted the next time he drives the lane?

One time in a little league game my team was getting killed, like 20-1 or something. It was at night, cold and raining. There is a "code" or unwritten rule that you stop stealing bases when you take a 10 run lead. The other team kept stealing bases and was playing really aggressive. So I started changed pitchers for every batter and used guys who had never pitched before. Next batter - I switched pitchers. Which involved players shuffling positions, pitcher getting his warm-up pitches. About a five minute process. The kid, who never pitched before, would promptly walk the guy on four straight pitches. Then I'd bring in another non-pitcher and go through the process again. After about the fourth pitching change and now a 30-minute long half-inning, the other team's coach came over and said "I got it, I got it." And I stopped with the pitching changes and he stopped stealing bases. His son actually came over and apologized after the game and said the players didn't want to keep stealing.

Let the two players "fight" who are involved in a beaning situation, like they do in hockey. Once that happened, all of these fake brawls would stop, and a lot of the beanings and crap would come to an end.

The best way to shut up a guy who is a jerk or who taunts or who overly celebrates is to beat him - with a home run, a strike out, for your team to win. All this flexing of the muscles stuff is stupid.

Apollo,

Learn how to discuss and respond respectfully or you won't last long. Disagreements will happen and to a certain extent are encouraged on the forum, but there's absolutely no need to respond in the manner that you're choosing.

You're being completely inappropriate in your response and antagonizing where it's unnecessary. Make your point, state your evidence, but enough with the "complete moron" and "boyee" bullshit. Bt88 made some great points, you made some great points, but the language you employ does absolutely nothing for the discussion we're trying to have.

This is your last warning on this.